Yeah just like how Bungie patched BXR and YY in Halo 2.......
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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
I'm quite happy Bumper Jumper has returned. On another note:
The map I envisioning here does not sound too good but obviously it's not much to go on.
A outdoor map with one building in the center that from the sound of it is very conducive to camping. Maybe the blue team in this case was just bad though.
The map I envisioning here does not sound too good but obviously it's not much to go on.
A outdoor map with one building in the center that from the sound of it is very conducive to camping. Maybe the blue team in this case was just bad though.
That's because that glitch was built in to the wait the X button worked, the reload command canceled other animations.
It wasn't because of the button layouts.
If the button layouts, say in fully customizable controls, were the actual cause of a glitch, then yes, it could be patched.
While we're on the subject of control schemes and AA on face buttons...
Can any of you here who have played the game at various events confirm if any of the AA's are push and hold to activate? (Hardlight shield sticks out here as one that can be) Also jetpack could be hold to activate but we haven't even seen its function yet.
If all the AA's are like a toggle switch, then having AA on a face button wouldn't be as big of a deal imo.
Can any of you here who have played the game at various events confirm if any of the AA's are push and hold to activate? (Hardlight shield sticks out here as one that can be) Also jetpack could be hold to activate but we haven't even seen its function yet.
If all the AA's are like a toggle switch, then having AA on a face button wouldn't be as big of a deal imo.
The Librarian
Banned
Well...okay then.
I woke up and read the Bulletin. I'll comment on the more interesting parts first. The campaign shot in the background of all the controller layouts looks like a desert. I also noticed the helmet outline. Has 343 said whether or not we can turn that off yet? I'd like the option because I'm worried I'll feel claustrophobic with it there.
As for the the picture at the end, I thought it was a Chopper at first too, but the more I look at it the more I see a Warthog. A weird Warthog to be sure, or something similar to a Warthog.
About the button layouts...I am not pleased. I'm happy for BJ fans as they seem mostly pleased with that layout. I don't use that, though. During the time until Halo 3's release, I was most excited to use GT with the reload being moved from X to RB, a place where I think it's better served: You reload a lot, and RB is more comfortable to hit.
I've been a GT player since mid 2006, and for the first time in six years, I may have to change. The beginning of this goes back to Reach. At first I was excited about zoom being on RB. It's always been a bit hard to engage in mid-range BR/Carbine combat with zoom on B. I thought with zoom on RB, it'd make mid-range combat easier because it's easier to switch between the two if they're on the same finger. An improvement to my preferred button layout despite the fact that reload being moved back to X. Sadly, this wasn't the case, for to see the improvements I'd like, I'd have to hold the controller uncomfortably. Otherwise, it's impractical to try to zoom and shoot with the same finger because you can't do both at the same time. GT had actually worsened from Halo 3 and ODST.
I've made plenty of posts on this subject. The first post I can find about GT and Halo 4 is here. When I saw the control scheme for GT for one of the earlier builds, I posted my recommended changes. When I saw the E3 build, I began posting my concerns, and a month later, I began to entertain the idea of having to switch control schemes. I'm not surprised nothing was changed. I didn't see any huge backlash about it on the level of the first BJ layout, and I seem to be the only one here who has a huge problem with it. Even so, it's still disappointing to see.
I don't like zoom on RB and reload on X for reasons already mentioned. I do not like crouch for B: Why is an action I have to hold down a button for not tied to one of the index fingers or thumbs? Yes, I know you can probably toggle crouch for Halo 4, but from my experience toggle for crouch is messy to deal with in the middle of combat.
Indeed there are other button layouts, but I'd rather have a comfortable GT, and I have problems with the other options. To be absolutely clear: With the addition of sprint as a base trait, no control scheme can be perfect, but surely there are better imperfect layouts? With so many unsatisfactory designs about GT, I think it's more likely than not that I'll switch. Recon seems to be the next best option with reload on RB, but that leaves me with the thought of dealing with melee on B...ugh. BJ is functionally better, but most of my problems with it fall under the heading of "it's not Green Thumb," which is more of a preference than a criticism. An additional preference I have against BJ is that GT has been there from the beginning, so it's always helped provide me a uniform, though imperfect, experience across all Halo games something I've enjoyed. GT has undergone changes throughout the games, certainly, but the changes weren't too different and kept the core concept intact. Now I feel there have been too many changes that I don't enjoy.
Blarg.
Der Flatulator
Member
I think there's a bit more to customisable control schemes than you think.
The Halo engine has always (or at least since 3) been recorded completely by input states at given points. Every game you play, every button some-one presses is recorded, and instead of saving a clip of the game, when you go to theater, it regenerates the game given these key(button)-states. This is why you can't directly rewind a film, and also why a film may appear different to the actual game, however that is due to the random seed that is generated at the beginning of each game.
There are a few things that (I think) could be an issue when implementing customisable control schemes.
A better solution to me would just be doubling the amount of control schemes to cover the vast majority of what people would consider using.
The Halo engine has always (or at least since 3) been recorded completely by input states at given points. Every game you play, every button some-one presses is recorded, and instead of saving a clip of the game, when you go to theater, it regenerates the game given these key(button)-states. This is why you can't directly rewind a film, and also why a film may appear different to the actual game, however that is due to the random seed that is generated at the beginning of each game.
There are a few things that (I think) could be an issue when implementing customisable control schemes.
- Your button configuration would have to be sent to the host during matchmaking, and if you change mid-game it would have to re-send, which would require some additional overhead, unless of course the inputs are passed to the host in a standardised format (Jump, Reload, ... instead of A, X, ... (+ control scheme)).
- Simply, custom schemes could be advantageous compared to others.
- In terms of combinatorics, there are numerous different possible control schemes with customizable control schemes, which could potentially require a lot of memory for something that without the current system could be represented with an enumerated value (a 2 byte integer in disguise).
A better solution to me would just be doubling the amount of control schemes to cover the vast majority of what people would consider using.
Hmmm well ok then, I am not an expert on how all these systems work obviously.
Shouldn't the system just record the command, and not the button pressed to execute the command?
I really have no idea how the system works, but it seems to me like the buttons used to execute a command wouldn't be as important as the theater just recognizing the command was executed.
So why would it need to say Player X pressed Y to execute Z, when it could just say Player X executed Z?
You reminded me of one map:
MW2's Wasteland. What a huge clusterfuck.
That was the easiest map to get Nukes. What's not balanced about that?
You reminded me of one map:
MW2's Wasteland. What a huge clusterfuck.
If there's power weapons in the central structure that spawn, the map is broken.
If the power weapons are located outside of the central structure, forcing the team holding it to either move out from that location to keep control or deal with the impending doom of rockets flying up their... base, then it could work.
Halo 2 was like ages ago and I would say, that 343i is willing to patch, since it is 2012 and they changed/patched Halo Reach at some points.
squidhands
Member
Same here, and it seems to be a problem across any of the other schemes that I'll try out. Maybe I'll just buy one of those expensive controllers where I can map the extra buttons however I want.
Hard Light was a hold to keep active. I only used that and Hologram, and holo is obviously a one-touch activate like in Reach.
YourExWife
Member
There is so much WTF in this post, I don't know how to approach it. In order I guess?
What idiot would require anything but the input to be sent? What logical reason would the host have for needing the control scheme?
Of course certain schemes are advantageous. That's always the case, no matter what. It's just up to the player to choose. Not an argument.
I cannot even purposely think of a system so ridiculous where a control scheme takes up too much memory for any reason, ever. If you're referring to network bandwidth, that just brings up the "OMGTHENHOWDOPCSDOIT?!" arugment.
Not to be a dick, but none of this post makes any logical sense.
EDIT: Upon reflection, I'm coming off as a bit of a salt salesman today. It just bugs me that these same excuses/arguments keep coming up. All this when anyone who's actually worked on large scale programming projects (especially those requiring hardware input) can easily see how ridiculous it is.
There should be a power weapon in a center structure. Worked great for Valhalla. Having no center control area workee terribly for Highlands.
Hard light is push and hold and others are toggle.
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
I still can't blame them for spending the resources on something 0.1% of the population will give a hoot about. Yeah, XBLA teams have done it on far simpler schemes. And if there is a glitch in those XBLA games? We'll call it "character". But you can't have that on your flagship title, and no- I don't imagine it's an easy patch on consoles either.
I rarely see anything that appeals to me in the Bulletin's, and they still haven't formally announced any other playlists I'm interested, whether it be Doubles or anything ranked. But I can get over it. If they market the crap out of this game and steal some of COD's market, it's a win for me. More people means less time waiting and most likely better matchmaking- the gameplay is solid enough that my complaints will be minimal.
So yeah, keep catering to the other 99%.
I rarely see anything that appeals to me in the Bulletin's, and they still haven't formally announced any other playlists I'm interested, whether it be Doubles or anything ranked. But I can get over it. If they market the crap out of this game and steal some of COD's market, it's a win for me. More people means less time waiting and most likely better matchmaking- the gameplay is solid enough that my complaints will be minimal.
So yeah, keep catering to the other 99%.
Broadbandito
Member
Im looking for some people to play halo with and possibly team for MLG Dallas. PM me or add my GT Broadbandit
I have a controller with an extra bumper on each side that is programmable. At the moment I don't use it but I may have to try it out with Halo 4 if any of the AAs that seem worthwhile are broken on BJ.
Valhalla had two bases that spawned with Warthogs, Snipers, Power Drainers, and Missile Pods.
The center "structure" was a big hill, not a base.
If there's only one base, which gives you a huge slaying advantage as hinted at in the bulletin, it would be too hard of a set up to break if they got a free close range power weapon as well.
And this post is refuted, because it sends the action to the host, not the button map. It's been that way after Halo 1.
squidhands
Member
It's all relative to the map, really. Valhalla worked because the center was incredibly open, but having a power weapon inside of a multi-level (human?) building doesn't seem like a good fit to me.
beaten, but whatever.
What controller? Is it worth the price? I have a Reach controller that's still working fine, but if that's all the control schemes I might be persuaded to look for a better option.
Well that's disappointing - thanks for the responses. But I'll probably be using thruster pack for the most part anyway so still not a deal breaker for me.
So are you a wide criminal or do you commit thefts against women?
Der Flatulator
Member
Think about it logically, if you need to store a control scheme in memory during runtime, which you do, and you have control schemes pre-set, then all you have to do is throw a reference to that scheme (0 = Default, 1 = Recon, etc), which will be determined by Halo Script when managing input.
If you were to have custom configs, then this approach is invalid, and you would need to store the reference from each button to the corresponding action.
in psuedocode
Code:
// hard coded here obviously, but the requirement to store doesn't change
control scheme := { X=Action reload, RT = Action fire, ... }
if button A is down then
action := lookup action of A from control scheme
perform action
end
...Wasn't aware of that.
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
Yeah, I absolutely worded that poorly. I am okay with the information coming out of 343 being geared to a crowd that is definitely not me. Bulletins are useless for me but I understand I'm not the intended audience.
Broadbandito
Member
I commit thefts or stealing your womens and or stealing your interbutts. Haha
Der Flatulator
Member
What do you think I just typed in my previous post?
Anyway, does it really matter? Making such a huge deal out of something so minor... If you want to customize your layout, get out a screwdriver and a soldering iron, lol.
Poker Face
Member
"we're not chasing call of duty"
"fishstick control settings"
but in all seriousness I don't know what the hell i'm going to be using when the game comes out. I want to be able to crouch jump, but I don't want sprint on the X button. couldn't there have been a "classic" style where its halo CE/2 controls with sprint is LB and AA is right bumper?
but instead we get fishstick. ffffuuuuuuu
"fishstick control settings"
but in all seriousness I don't know what the hell i'm going to be using when the game comes out. I want to be able to crouch jump, but I don't want sprint on the X button. couldn't there have been a "classic" style where its halo CE/2 controls with sprint is LB and AA is right bumper?
but instead we get fishstick. ffffuuuuuuu
Yes, it does matter.
YourExWife
Member
You're forgetting the fact that you still have to have a lookup of some sort for the control scheme anyway. You're just adding another layer of abstraction. As far as memory concerns, what essentially boils down to a few bitflags compared to a single bitflag that will require more processing time (due to the double lookup), should not be an issue since it's not the mid-eighties anymore.
Dude, again, why would it be any other way? No game would ever want to do the convoluted method you described. Just have a bitflag corresponding to an action, and an optional secondary input for those with varying values (like thumbstick position or trigger pressure). Obviously, the netcode would send other things too, like current projectile locations/velocity, 3D-space location, results of hit detection, etc. But as far as controls go, the non-local machine couldn't give two-shits what button causes what action, as long as it knows the action.
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
I feel like at most you'd swap two buttons.
Again, why have the devs spend significant time working on something 1% will care about at all. I've seen a lot of interaction with small communities, but there isn't enough of a payoff here.
I think having more schemes is a much better argument than complete mapping. Just buy an Onza if it matters that much.
At this point it doesn't really because nothing will change. When we hear that development has started on Halo 5 then it might matter.
Anyways I think I am out of HaloGAF until the lore talk starts back up or when that new map gets shown.
Are you going to be more inclined to change under constant pressure or pressure every once in a while?
Der Flatulator
Member
Hadn't thought that much into it, to be honest. What you suggested makes sense.
As far as sending other stuff through the netcode, I think it would actually be very minimal, as the netcode is asynchronous, so it shouldn't need much more than button states to compute vectors, collisions, and other game data. Of course I could be radically wrong there, but that's my understanding of the Halo engine.
Oh sorry, yeah... so what do you think of the grunt action figure?
It's not like there's been campaigns since post-H2 to get custom control schemes or anything...
Im going to be honest, this stuff just isn't why I started posting on HaloGAF, I like talking about the lore of Halo rather than custom loadouts or ranking systems. I understand some do care about that stuff and that is all fine and cool but just not my thing really. I mean Halo is still my favorite series but obviously for different reasons that some here lol
DAT ASS!
Also I know there have been but its more important to talk about this stuff when development of the new game starts and not near the end of the dev cycle for the current one. Also I am not trying to change the conversation I am just saying in my opinion that I do not see the point of talking about it right now.
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
The HaloCouncil folks here may scoff at this, but I think 343 spending more of it's resources on casual-oriented bells and whistles rather than issues like button mapping helps the competitive scene overall.
343 could make the most competitive shooter short of going to Afghanistan, but if the population is at Reach like levels what's the point. I honestly just don't believe gameplay and gametypes was why Reach bled so badly- been of this opinion ever since the first credit jackpot in Arena- it is the only time you can quickly get matches there.
I find many of the additions to be necessary evils, and understand resources are limited. I'd personally rather sacrifice some of the gameplay I love for a cut in matchmaking time.
343 could make the most competitive shooter short of going to Afghanistan, but if the population is at Reach like levels what's the point. I honestly just don't believe gameplay and gametypes was why Reach bled so badly- been of this opinion ever since the first credit jackpot in Arena- it is the only time you can quickly get matches there.
I find many of the additions to be necessary evils, and understand resources are limited. I'd personally rather sacrifice some of the gameplay I love for a cut in matchmaking time.
The Real Napsta
Member
See im gonna play the campaign once and probably never think about it again. Ill play mp till Halo 5 comes out.
Different strokes for different folks.
A good game is a good game, and the competitive elements and design philosophies actually make for a better game overall.
Again, none of the "casual" players knew how "competitive" Halo 1 multiplayer was until they heard so on the internet.
Counter Strike and Team Fortress are highly competitive, and they're some of the most popular shooters of all time.
Competitive and fun are not mutually exclusive.
In fact, they go hand in hand and actually depend on each other.
Individual opinions and posts here don't reflect THC, or at least I hope not lol.
YourExWife
Member
Since you sound like one of the few here that has some understanding of programming, and have been quite gentlemanly with my criticisms, you should check out David Aldridge's GDC 2011 presentation on Halo: Reach's gameplay networking. Really enlightening and in some cases, ingenius.
I Shot You First: Networking the Gameplay of HALO: REACH
neoism
Member
thruster...probably 90% of the time....
Of course it helps, nobody is going to deny it. However getting feedback and looking from every perspective can also benefit the game. Long time Halo fans that stuck with the game, while others moved on to their flavor of the month, should have an equal say or influence.
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