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[wwm0nkey]

See im gonna play the campaign once and probably never think about it again. Ill play mp till Halo 5 comes out.

Different strokes for different folks.

Oh I will play Halo 4 MP a lot but I don't think I will be talking about it a lot unless I am getting annoyed at a game mechanic as much as I was angry at Bloom or Armor lock lol

Also luckily Spartan Ops means there will be lore talk every week that there is a season going on

 

[neoism]

Just thinking out loud here: the "BUT HOW WILL WE BUMPER JUMPER AND JETPACK 343?! I AM CRY" problem could be solved if the new Jet Pack is just a Jump Pack (much like how we've seen Promethean Knights do those huge lunge-jump things), because all we'd be doing would be controlling the direction and pressing the button once rather than holding it. Hardlight Shield not only becomes trickier to use (thus making its abuse more manageable) but also doesn't require jumping meaning you'd be free to hold the button.

Smart move, 343.

meh reason I never, use it...shame...even with PC they don't have custom controller support... :/ next gen right lol

 

[Der Flatulator]

Since you sound like one of the few here that has some understanding of programming, and have been quite gentlemanly with my criticisms, you should check out David Aldridge's GDC 2011 presentation on Halo: Reach's gameplay networking. Really enlightening and in some cases, ingenius.

I Shot You First: Networking the Gameplay of HALO: REACH

Downloaded it a while ago, along with the design in balance series and another couple of their publications, I never got around to that one (I'm more of an Graphics & AI guy), but I'll give it a watch.

 

[u4iX]

Oh I will play Halo 4 MP a lot but I don't think I will be talking about it a lot unless I am getting annoyed at a game mechanic as much as I was angry at Bloom or Armor lock lol

See this is what I don't get... No one wants to talk about the "competitive" aspects of the game but they agree with the competitive players stance on the game.

Not once have I jumped into a debate about the books or the lore telling someone they shouldn't care about those aspects of the Halo franchise.

However, there's constantly someone telling competitive players to "not worry about it."

Silliness.

 

[Orochinagis]

Im going to be honest, this stuff just isn't why I started posting on HaloGAF, I like talking about the lore of Halo rather than custom loadouts or ranking systems. I understand some do care about that stuff and that is all fine and cool but just not my thing really. I mean Halo is still my favorite series but obviously for different reasons that some here lol

I never like the changes in Grunts, the jackals, the Spartans being normal military people with suits and now maybe they will bring back Halsey but yeah let the people focus on FUD anyway

 

[wwm0nkey]

Oh I will play Halo 4 MP a lot but I don't think I will be talking about it a lot unless I am getting annoyed at a game mechanic as much as I was angry at Bloom or Armor lock lol

See this is what I don't get... No one wants to talk about the "competitive" aspects of the game but they agree with the competitive players stance on the game.

Not once have I jumped into a debate about the books or the lore telling someone they shouldn't care about those aspects of the Halo franchise.

However, there's constantly someone telling competitive players to "not worry about it."

Silliness.

fixed.

It just isn't my kind of talk, I know you guys like to talk about it but its just a whatever kind of conversation for me. So unless it is something that is completely ruining my fun or enjoyment of the game itself like Reach did in some cases I will just casually talk about it.

Also half the time I try to bring up something slightly related to competitive play like No-slow controllers no one usually pays attention anyways lol

 

[Tashi]

Oh I will play Halo 4 MP a lot but I don't think I will be talking about it a lot unless I am getting annoyed at a game mechanic as much as I was angry at Bloom or Armor lock lol

See this is what I don't get... No one wants to talk about the "competitive" aspects of the game but they agree with the competitive players stance on the game.

Not once have I jumped into a debate about the books or the lore telling someone they shouldn't care about those aspects of the Halo franchise.

However, there's constantly someone telling competitive players to "not worry about it."

Silliness.

I wouldn't worry.

 

[CyReN]

fixed.

It just isn't my kind of talk, I know you guys like to talk about it but its just a whatever kind of conversation for me. So unless it is something that is completely ruining my fun or enjoyment of the game itself like Reach did in some cases I will just casually talk about it.

Also half the time I try to bring up something slightly related to competitive play like No-slow controllers no one usually pays attention anyways lol

A lot of the time it's beaten to death to be honest, I think the thing that is over-looked is how competitive players play the game. We break their game and tell you the flaws and what doesn't work from our past experience better than most in the community for multiplayer, it's just up to them to listen.

As for you subject

Slow turn controllers = Aim Acceleration

• Make a toggle if possible
  or
• Remove the useless element

Spectator Mode

• I really hope some of 343 can go back stage at Dallas and see how much work/money it takes to run 1 game.
• Rise of Youtube/Twitch.TV/etc

Maps: We can't really comment on the since we've only seen 4 (including 1 forge environment) until Pax at least.
Weapons: DMR bloom seems to be fixed along with the spread not being too harsh as in Halo 3 for the BR.

Time will tell.

 

[YourExWife]

fixed.

It just isn't my kind of talk, I know you guys like to talk about it but its just a whatever kind of conversation for me. So unless it is something that is completely ruining my fun or enjoyment of the game itself like Reach did in some cases I will just casually talk about it.

Also half the time I try to bring up something slightly related to competitive play like No-slow controllers no one usually pays attention anyways lol

 

[Gray Man]

HaloGAF, Im about to finish Halo Cryptum, what is everyone's opinion on Primordium?

 

[wwm0nkey]

A lot of the time it's beaten to death to be honest, I think the thing that is over-looked is how competitive players play the game. We break their game and tell you the flaws and what doesn't work from our past experience better than most in the community for multiplayer, it's just up to them to listen.

As for you subject

Slow turn controllers = Aim Acceleration

• Make a toggle if possible
  or
• Remove the useless element

Spectator Mode

• I really hope some of 343 can go back stage at Dallas and see how much work/money it takes to run 1 game.
• Rise of Youtube/Twitch.TV/etc

Personally I think acceleration should just be gone and not an option or at least off by default just so new players are not at a disadvantage.

Also I don't know if you put the slow tun in there because of it but by no-slow controller I mean a problem with most Microsoft controllers where the Y or X axis goes at a different speed than the other, which can be fixed with a pair of scissors and sand paper. Recently did this to my wired controller and it makes a world of difference.

 

[The P of Poland]

HaloGAF, Im about to finish Halo Cryptum, what is everyone's opinion on Primordium?

Skip to the last fifty pages or so. The vast majority of the book has literally nothing of interest or importance occurring.

 

[YourExWife]

Personally I think acceleration should just be gone and not an option or at least off by default just so new players are not at a disadvantage.

Also I don't know if you put the slow tun in there because of it but by no-slow controller I mean a problem with most Microsoft controllers where the Y or X axis goes at a different speed than the other, which can be fixed with a pair of scissors and sand paper. Recently did this to my wired controller and it makes a world of difference.

His point was that the slow turn is a side effect of both the hardware and the aim acceleration mechanic.

 

[Amazing Mic]

Of course it helps, nobody is going to deny it. However getting feedback and looking from every perspective can also benefit the game. Long time Halo fans that stuck with the game, while others moved on to their flavor of the month, should have an equal say or influence.

I agree. I really just don't see many people being ignored- in fact one thing that has impressed me so much is how involved 343 has been with different communities. Seems like nit-picking at times.

A good game is a good game, and the competitive elements and design philosophies actually make for a better game overall.

...

Competitive and fun are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, they go hand in hand and actually depend on each other.

I guess in many instances I fail to see how competitive aspects were lost over time. Sometimes I think it was because I was never a LAN type player. Reach seemed like such an upgrade in netcode that perhaps I very easily overlooked it's shortcomings. That, and I really never had a massive problem w/ bloom or sprint.

Individual opinions and posts here don't reflect THC, or at least I hope not lol.

I apologize for the stereotype.

 

[wwm0nkey]

His point was that the slow turn is a side effect of both the hardware and the aim acceleration mechanic.

Kind of wish Microsoft would have fixed that problem by themselves already so I didn't have to shave off some plastic just to make my controller work properly :/

I do think that is one thing most Halo players can agree on though is the removal or on/off for Aim Acceleration.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

HaloGAF, Im about to finish Halo Cryptum, what is everyone's opinion on Primordium?

Poor.

Lot of trudging for pay-off only at the end. Would help if the trudging was interesting / the characters were, but they aren't.

 

[Orochinagis]

MountainDew Promo revealed.

Dew and Halo are giving you a chance to WIN an EXCLUSIVE behind-the-scenes trip to Halo HQ in Seattle, and stacks of other Dew & Halo Goodies! Packs are creeping into stores, but this epic competition doesn’t blast off until September 24th. So if you are lucky enough to get a bottle before then, then keep hold of your codes!

 

[wwm0nkey]

MountainDew Promo revealed.

Still UK only right?

 

[Orochinagis]

Still UK only right?

Yup, UK only

 

[wwm0nkey]

Yup, UK only

I need to send my friend over a crate of american foods so he can send me over a case of that then!

 

[IHaveIce]

So guys seems that I will go to Eurogamer Expo. If the only German 343 visit is Munich, it will be cheaper to fly to London instead.

 

[Stinkles]

A lot of the time it's beaten to death to be honest, I think the thing that is over-looked is how competitive players play the game.We break their game and tell you the flaws and what doesn't work from our past experience better than most in the community for multiplayer, it's just up to them to listen.

While the second bolded item is true, it is equally true of other factions of the player base. Halo players, even MP players, are hardly monolithic. There are different styles, skill levels, demographics, interests etc etc etc. The competitive scene focuses on a very narrow range of that spectrum and comprises an important but necessarily narrow range of play. That community figures out that band of play faster and in some ways more deeply than other factions, but I do wish players who want things tailored precisely to their mode or style of play, would remember it's a large sandbox game with disparate audience segments. And that's ignoring the seven or eight million audience members who literally never opine on, discuss or analyze the experience and simply enjoy it.

It's our job to balance those aspects and factions and needs - it's not a charity - people pay $60 for the experience - and so it damned well better be good - and we damned well better make sure we haul ass to make it as good as we possibly can, but it has to be good for everyone.

You might think that cupholder in the back of the center console could be shaved off to save weight, but the passenger in the back with the scalding coffee is pretty happy it's there.

But the underlined assertion, that we overlook competitive players, couldn't be farther from the truth. It's a vital, central part of our effort.

 

[kylej]

And that's ignoring the seven or eight million audience members who literally never opine on, discuss or analyze the experience and simply enjoy it.

Yeah because 75% of them leave to go play COD a month after release.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

So guys seems that I will go to Eurogamer Expo. If the only German 343 visit is Munich, it will be cheaper to fly to London instead.

I have a ticket and flight, but they were both so cheap I'm debating going at all.

I want to go to play Halo 4, but only have a Saturday ticket right now. I could, now, go for earlier days, because I'd love to see Frankie's talk and get to have a chat with him, but spending the 3 or 4 days alone in London doesn't sound like the best use of my holiday days.

 

[CyReN]

While this is true, it is equally true of other factions of the player base. Halo players, even MP players, are hardly monolithic. There are different styles, skill levels, demographics, interests etc etc etc. The competitive scene focuses on a very narrow range of that spectrum and comprises an important but necessarily narrow range of play. That community figures out that band of play faster and in some ways more deeply than other factions, but I do wish players who want things tailored precisely to their mode or style of play, would remember it's a large sandbox game with disparate audience segments. And that's ignoring the seven or eight million audience members who literally never opine on, discuss or analyze the experience and simply enjoy it.

It's our job to balance those aspects and factions and needs - it's not a charity - people pay $60 for the experience - and so it damned well better be good - and we damned well better make sure we haul ass to make it as good as we possibly can, but it has to be good for everyone.

You might think that cupholder in the back of the center console could be shaved off to save weight, but the passenger in the back with the scalding coffee is pretty happy it's there.

To note I think the cupholder in the back are awesome.

I do get what you are saying, It's a really weird issue as for someone like me and others we play the Halo religiously from the release to the very end of each of the game cycles. I think some people look at it as some people who don't really care about the series persay may get more of what they want than some of the fans that are true die hards.

Also for the sandbox I agree, REALLY wish for Halo 4 if there are competitive settings we aren't on the chopping block from Day 1 and let the game evolve first and see how it works in this game than base it off predecessors and how they worked.

I honestly think you guys are doing the best you can, and do think it's cheap that you have to come off Reach for a lot of the fanbase, but who knows it could be a blessing in disguise and be the best Halo since 3.

 

[Vire]

While the second bolded item is true, it is equally true of other factions of the player base. Halo players, even MP players, are hardly monolithic. There are different styles, skill levels, demographics, interests etc etc etc. The competitive scene focuses on a very narrow range of that spectrum and comprises an important but necessarily narrow range of play. That community figures out that band of play faster and in some ways more deeply than other factions, but I do wish players who want things tailored precisely to their mode or style of play, would remember it's a large sandbox game with disparate audience segments. And that's ignoring the seven or eight million audience members who literally never opine on, discuss or analyze the experience and simply enjoy it.

It's our job to balance those aspects and factions and needs - it's not a charity - people pay $60 for the experience - and so it damned well better be good - and we damned well better make sure we haul ass to make it as good as we possibly can, but it has to be good for everyone.

You might think that cupholder in the back of the center console could be shaved off to save weight, but the passenger in the back with the scalding coffee is pretty happy it's there.

But the underlined assertion, that we overlook competitive players, couldn't be farther from the truth. It's a vital, central part of our effort.

I dunno, I pre-ordered Halo 4 so David Ellis can keep going to the gym.

 

[Tawpgun]

I still believe if you make the barebones base gameplay competitive and good then the rest of the game will be fine.

 

[Risen]

Check your PM's Ray

 

[CyReN]

Check your PM's Ray

I may be working MLG Dallas for H4, waiting to hear back. If not 50/50 shot of me going.

 

[Stinkles]

I dunno, I pre-ordered Halo 4 so David Ellis can keep going to the gym.

Dude. He stopped looking jolly like five months ago. He's getting uncomfortably close to handsome. I keep putting pies on his desk.

 

[Risen]

Yeah because 75% of them leave to go play COD a month after release.

To be fair... It took me 3 months.

 

[Vire]

After thinking about it some I realized why they made LB (AA) and Sprint (X) for Recon and it's probably for the better.

Since some of the armor abilities require you to hold the button rather than a quick toggle, it would be cumbersome for something like a Jetpack or Hard Light shield to hold X without being able to aim. With Halo 3, it wasn't a problem to have (X) as equipment because you would simply throw it out and you were done with it. So it just wouldn't work the same.

Dude. He stopped looking jolly like five months ago. He's getting uncomfortably close to handsome. I keep putting pies on his desk.

:lol

 

[senador]

I don't code games so I can only speculate, and I also don't give a damn about customizable controls, but I don't think the give reason is accurate. Whether it was just told to us as a reason, or a developer told it as an excuse or something else, I don't buy it. Surely they are already only sending inputs over and not the actual button. I mean, I guess they could be for some reason I don't know of, but that's like the main gist of object oriented programming and wouldn't make sense to send the key, just the action. More realistically, I feel it just takes up more time for creating and testing as well as more possible breakin points. Right now the schemes are probably in some settings and config file, and the interface for choosing the schemes in game is for the most part static. Making the controls customizable would require an additional code layer to handle the mapping as well as the interface to do it, which in turn changes it from mostly static. It's not really a matter of how easy it is or not but what the priority of things are compared to other tasks. At the beginning, they map out everything they want to do and smaller things get left behind. Its not like its not doable, its just not important on their end, especially with it probably being a far less wanted feature. But yeah, if it was widely wanted and they wanted to do it it, it'd happen. I feel its completely reasonable its not in.

This is all just speculation on what I think really happened with it. I really don't know anything about how the animation systems work though in Halo games and Halo 4 could be even different and what Frank said could very well be true. Maybe Fyrewulff or Computron or someone that knows more about this stuff can comment.

That all said, I am pretty bummed by the schemes. All of them are almost there but off by a button or 2 in such a way that it won't be nearly as comfortable to play, and this seems to be echoed by many. It seems like even 2-3 more schemes would appease most people, and 5 would probably get everyone. I never expected or wanted customizable control schemes, but I think having tons of preset schemes is/would have been reasonable.

Since you sound like one of the few here that has some understanding of programming, and have been quite gentlemanly with my criticisms, you should check out David Aldridge's GDC 2011 presentation on Halo: Reach's gameplay networking. Really enlightening and in some cases, ingenius.

I Shot You First: Networking the Gameplay of HALO: REACH

There are actually quite a few coders in HaloGAF. Me, thezerofire, Karl, Zeoterlimits, Der Flatulator, Tashi, Bobs, Fyrewulff, Hydranockz, and Louis Wu are the ones I remember.

 

[IHaveIce]

I have a ticket and flight, but they were both so cheap I'm debating going at all.

I want to go to play Halo 4, but only have a Saturday ticket right now. I could, now, go for earlier days, because I'd love to see Frankie's talk and get to have a chat with him, but spending the 3 or 4 days alone in London doesn't sound like the best use of my holiday days.

really what flight do you have? I'm looking for it right now, yeah I also thought about staying a few days, but the hotels are really expensive.

 

[Devolution]

All I want is a simplified sandbox competitive playlist that isn't a low pop because there are 20 other fucking playlists.

 

[Ajemsuhgao]

Anybody here ever play Gotham City Imposters? I remember pages back in this thread people were discussing the possibility of jumpjets instead of a jetpack. I honestly wonder how well jumpjets with a charge-up time similar to the spring-boots in GCI would play out in Halo...

 

[CyReN]

So who's ready for Pax Prime?

 

[Risen]

All I want is a simplified sandbox competitive playlist that isn't a low pop because there are 20 other fucking playlists.

Sorry... you will get a simplified sandbox competitive playlist that is low pop because 90% of the player base will want unlimited kill streaks, won't want to work to memorize weapon spawns/locations, and love wild card kills created by picking something in a menu.

/kylej possession

 

[indubitably]

There are actually quite a few coders in HaloGAF. Me, thezerofire, Karl, Zeoterlimits, Der Flatulator, Tashi, Bobs, Fyrewulff, Hydranockz, and Louis Wu are the ones I remember.

junior coder here

 

[wwm0nkey]

All I want is a simplified sandbox competitive playlist that isn't a low pop because there are 20 other fucking playlists.

Yeah I do hope there are less playlists, Reach's last update made things better but there is still too much I think.

 

[Overdoziz]

Is there still time to trade in 10 Spec Ops missions for button mapping?

 

[DeadNames]

So who's ready for Pax Prime?

My body is ready. Too bad I can't make it...

junior coder here

Me too.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Anybody here ever play Gotham City Imposters? I remember pages back in this thread people were discussing the possibility of jumpjets instead of a jetpack. I honestly wonder how well jumpjets with a charge-up time similar to the spring-boots in GCI would play out in Halo...

Hmmm having Jet Pack being replaced with a chargeable mini-super jump sounds kind of cool actually....

 

[Bsigg12]

All I want is a simplified sandbox competitive playlist that isn't a low pop because there are 20 other fucking playlists.

Infinity Slayer will undoubtedly be the playlist most people go to at launch. Since it includes all the new bells and whistles, along with instant respawn, it's going to draw the larger crowd. The highly competitive stuff tends to scare most normal people away. The level of play is just too high for them to enjoy it.

With what Frankie said, we are the minority here. We are a very small but very vocal group in the grand scheme of Halo 4. Competitive playlists can only get Halo so far since the larger audience probably will only dabble in them and not commit any serious effort to it.

With that said, any "barebones" playlists will have a decent amount of people in them to begin with as they rage against the new features. Then over time, we'll see more people turning to infinity (insert gametype) because it will feel like the more complete Halo 4 experience.

 

[Ajemsuhgao]

Hmmm having Jet Pack being replaced with a chargeable mini-super jump sounds kind of cool actually....

It really does. And to be honest, a couple months back I was playing GCI like crazy because it felt a lot like Halo 4 in some ways. It even has its own prom vision of sorts.

 

[Stinkles]

Yeah I do hope there are less playlists, Reach's last update made things better but there is still too much I think.

We have confirmed this many times.

 

[Defect]

Is there still time to trade in 10 Spec Ops missions for button mapping?

Don't you read the books? Spartans aren't able to button map their controls.

 

[The Librarian]

After thinking about it some I realized why they made LB (AA) and Sprint (X) for Recon and it's probably for the better.

Since some of the armor abilities require you to hold the button rather than a quick toggle, it would be cumbersome for something like a Jetpack or Hard Light shield to hold X without being able to aim. With Halo 3, it wasn't a problem to have (X) as equipment because you would simply throw it out and you were done with it. So it just wouldn't work the same.

It's a balancing act. You're weighing one base trait that you have to hold down the button for, and that everyone will have no matter what (sprint), against gameplay additions that sometimes act as a toggle and sometimes not (AAs). Then you have to place further consideration on the fact that some players will not use AAs that require you to hold a button down.

Overall it's a wash, and any debate over what should be where would probably result as a stalemate, but personally I'd give priority to factors you know players will use.

 

[wwm0nkey]

We have confirmed this many times.

huh, guess I just forgot then. Still good to hear though so thanks!

It really does. And to be honest, a couple months back I was playing GCI like crazy because it felt a lot like Halo 4 in some ways. It even has its own prom vision of sorts.

Well now I want a "Jump Pack" in Halo 5 lol

 

[ViewtifulJC]

343 confirms there will be less then a billion playlists like Halo: Reach

Get on that shit, IGN