why are y'all so worried about AR users. AR + beatdown has died. That was the irritating thing about the weapon. An AR charging straight forward won't have the same potency. If you can't outgun an AR guy with a nerfed melee than maybe it's your skills that need to be checked.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo: Reach Beta Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I hope we get a Rifles setting back that was used for Halo 2. I know you like your Halo vanilla, and a Needle-Rifle/DMR/Sniper Rifle only setting would be a nice, interesting twist to Arena. Had such fun in Rifles in Halo 2 maps Colossus, Lockout, and Ivory Tower. No Rockets, no Swords, no Shotguns. It made each map play slightly different and how you would react to situations, especially up-close battles.Tashi0106 said:
It's because I like my competitive Halo more Vanilla
Also, MLG Columbus is this weekend!!!
I'll be away this whole weekend so I won't be able to watch it. It should be a fucking awesome event though.
Here are my predictions. This one is really tough to call but I'll call it without any bias.
1. Instinct
2. Final Boss
3. Str8 Rippin
4. Classic
5. Carbon
6. Triggers Down
7. Status Quo
8. Believe the Hype
Also, MadCatz has partnered with MLG to bring MLG controllers and fightsticks. MadCatz turned their shit around with the SE and TE Street Fighter sticks and I'm really curious to see what they do now.
Also, MLG Columbus is this weekend!!!
I'll be away this whole weekend so I won't be able to watch it. It should be a fucking awesome event though.
Here are my predictions. This one is really tough to call but I'll call it without any bias.
1. Instinct
They deserve it Bladed
3. Str8 Rippin
4. Classic
5. Carbon
6. Triggers Down
7. Status Quo
8. Believe the Hype
Also, MadCatz has partnered with MLG to bring MLG controllers and fightsticks. MadCatz turned their shit around with the SE and TE Street Fighter sticks and I'm really curious to see what they do now.
In the beta that was generally the case. They've nerfed the pistol though to give those charging AR sprayers a chance now.Dirtbag said:
In CE's MP the automatic weapons didn't hold a candle to the pistol. In Halo 2 the BR made the every automatic weapon much less useful. It wasn't until Halo 3 that the AR introduced a powerful automatic weapon into the MP sandbox. I wish you'd know what you'd know what you were talking about.GhaleonEB said:
I can only imagine they've had this strange hate brewing in them since Halo 1. The general composition of the Halo sandbox - the mix of power, automatic and precision weapons - hasn't shifted that much since the first game. Shifting the around the edges of the weapon's functionality doesn't eliminate its existence, which is their objection. You'd think guys like Eazy would get sick of the same griping ten years on, but nope. Automatic weapons have always been a part of Halo. That wasn't going to suddenly shift with Reach. Personally, I wish he'd give it a fucking rest.Dirtbag said:
Ramirez said:
Contrary to popular belief, Bungie doesn't actually use the beta to gather gameplay input from the public, or at least that's not the main reason for the beta. The beta is primarily a marketing gimmick (Microsoft pushes it to sell copies of ODST or Crackdown), a strict milestone that ensures the game won't slip it's delivery date (again for Microsoft's benefit), and a way to test their matchmaking and backend systems.
Sure they take a look at some statistics, watch what the community is saying, etc. but really Bungie follows its own road. They use internal testing to decide whether they're on the right track long before we get something like the beta.
Remember how long ago Tom Morello's stuff leaked? He was a public tester brought in for either focus on play testing back in pre-alpha stages. That's when Bungie decides what stays and what is cut, way back during those testing stages.
I'm one of the 4 people here glad that the AR is back to being the weapon that in theory dominates at point blank. (except against power weapons obviously)
Everyone including Bungie staff mocks it, but I personally don't care what the cool kids or pros think is the correct way to play, for me it's still the most iconic weapon from the franchise, even if doing it got me owned so many times, I love pulling the trigger on that thing and seeing the bullets fly, ever since Halo CE (maybe it's the nostalgia attached to it from the halo CE campaign blowing my mind for hours and hours on end back in 2001) so I usually held on to it even on Reach beta, now I will have valid tactical reasoning behind it again.
Everyone including Bungie staff mocks it, but I personally don't care what the cool kids or pros think is the correct way to play, for me it's still the most iconic weapon from the franchise, even if doing it got me owned so many times, I love pulling the trigger on that thing and seeing the bullets fly, ever since Halo CE (maybe it's the nostalgia attached to it from the halo CE campaign blowing my mind for hours and hours on end back in 2001) so I usually held on to it even on Reach beta, now I will have valid tactical reasoning behind it again.
Self Induced
Member
The 60-bullet clip leaves plenty of blood decals on the floor, thats for damn sureLetters said:
(sometimes you have to teach those elites not to mess with you after you've already killed them)
Mayyhem said:
Not bad, except for the Triggers Down at number 2. I just don't see that happening. They got worse and everyone else got better in my opinion. If they pull off 2nd that'd be a huge upset. I'll be rooting for my boy Walshy, I hope Carbon does well.
GhaleonEB said:
Man, u rly mad.
So Falagard, all of these tweaks coming off the beta is Bungie following their own road and not listening to feedback? I know the Beta is primarily there to build hype for the game, but to say they don't listen to any of the feedback from their biggest fans is a little out there.
To those wondering why the podcast isn't working on iTunes or Zune, or whatever. Well I took a look at the xml/rss and the date on the link to the file is different than the actual file. 0603010 instead of 060310 which is what the actual file has. So it will obviously need to be fixed on bungies end. I manually downloaded the podcast because I really wanted to listen to it, after spending 20 minutes wondering why my podcast downloader wouldn't download the file.
UltimaPooh
Member
It looks as if Halo: Reach is going to create a rift in the HaloGAF community.
Which side are you on?
Which side are you on?
The feed xml has an error in it so that feed readers like itunes and zune are trying to download a nonexistant file. In short, the podcast file is Bungie_Podcast_060310.mp3 but the feed is trying to get your reader to download Bungie_Podcast_0603010.mp3. I suspect we won't be able to download the file properly in our feed readers until somebody gets into work in the morning and edit the xml to have the correct filename (or makes a copy of the podcast file with the incorrect filename on the server I guess). Unless someone at Bungie is able to fix it remotely from home tonight, I wouldn't expect the download to be available until at least 9:30 am pst. :-(Tashi0106 said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Oh snap son.Plywood said:
Me? I'm fine with Bloom.
I believe!
Shake Appeal
Member
There are plenty of people who loved the beta (with a few caveats, myself included), it's just that the nature of complaint tends to make it more noticeable, so people who have grievances (and post about them endlessly) start to skew people's perception of how the beta was received.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Plywood said:
I cant believe people are still saying this, im on the side where people write detailed posts and dont make stupid 1 sentence generalizations. People here have managed to write up theyre issues with the game in pretty big detail, and clearly Bungie agrees because they have even increased the jump height and movement speed. No one wants Halo 3.5, but no one wants a game that they dont enjoy either. Halo Reach can be changed from the beta and still be full on sequel you know?
I guess the AR recieveing a buff could be a good thing as long as the playlists are handled really well in Reach, and I dont just mean making the Arena Pistol starts and making Social AR starts. Maybe make a social setting for AR vs BR. :lol
Miggytronz
Member
Plywood said:
x2
BladedExpert
Member
Tashi0106 said:
Pretty much. What is SK up to these days... anyway:
1. Instinct
you're damn right they do Tashi
3. Classic/Str8/Carbon - I really have no clue
6. SQ
7. tD
8. Power
I know, lol right? Bite me, Reaction > ALLLLL
Ramirez said:
They listen to fan feedback, obviously, but they don't use the beta to make major design decisions about armor abilities or how the game plays. Most of the major tweaks to the game were done before the beta was even in our hands but couldn't be included (such as changes to Armor Lock and Melee).
Sage made minor modifications to jump height and movement speed, but they were small enough that some of the people in the podcast didn't notice. Grenade damage was reduce by one. Woop dee doo.
What I'm saying is that it isn't crazy for them to launch the game with new armor abilities without the public getting to test them, because a) they know what they're doing and b) our feedback doesn't have much of an impact on them anyhow.
electricpirate
Member
bobs99 ... said:
I can
. I like the timing and tension it adds to the game. Apparently Hamrick does too if you listen to the podcast. Also, a prediction: 80% of the bloom bitching will fade away with the headshot bug fix, and movement speed fixes.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Plywood said:
Absolutely. Theres a reason to keep playing both which is the way it should be when its not a direct sequel.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
The mention of Halo 3.5 has me a bit riled. I'm going to explain why.Plywood said:
I took a small piece of the Beta article I'm working on and quickly edited to make my point. Forgive the rushed nature of it, I haven't had time to clean it up.
To be honest, I'll probably be re-writing some/most of this but I think it's gets the point across.
===
There can be no argument that Reach has caused a stir in the Halo fan base. When I talk about the Halo fan base, I am talking about the regular Halo players, the folks that go back every week and play Halo repeatedly. New games come and go by these players constantly return to their favourite game. New maps packs and DLC aren't an attraction to these people, they don't need a reason to hop online and play but of course they welcome new content more than anyone as it's brings fresh new experiences to the game they love.
The Halo fan base will still go back to older Halo titles and replay them on occasion. They are dedicated. The end of Halo 2 on Xbox Live was a glimpse into the dedicated of these players. They fired up Halo 2 in its last days to show their support and love for the game. Now, with Halo 2 behind us, they will still return to the Campaign or jump online with the game on PC.
Halo's fans are loyal to the Halo experience. This experience simply cannot be found in other games. It's hard to describe exactly what makes this experience unique but it's what keeps fans going and coming back to Halo games year after year, month after month and despite the release of newer games and the growth of other popular game franchises.
Looking back at the success and popularity of past Halo titles isn't particularly easy. No one could have foreseen the heights the franchise would reach (!) when the original Halo was still in its frenzied development.
Reach represents the franchise's latest milestone. The latest peak. It's been given the full resources, incubation and development cycle of a full Halo main title. It is, in all but name, Halo 4. However, a name is more important than some realise. In this case, the name has much more significance than some might credit it. It isn't Halo 4.
Before I continue, I want to take a quick look at the previous Halo title, ODST. Without delving into the game's development, look at the marketing, the branding of the title. Halo 3: ODST. Fans know that ODST started as Halo 3: Recon, an expansion to Halo 3's Campaign before its development and focus changed and the marketing and branding change with it. The branding from the very start associated the game with Halo 3, which made perfect sense as the game was originally positioned as expansion. However, as development continued and the game changed from a single expansion (with possible digital download release) to a full blown retail release, the game kept the Halo 3 association.
I found this odd; as more information was released it became clear that the game itself was set between Halo 2 and Halo 3 and focusing on new characters. It was more of expansion, story wise, to the events in Halo 2. The game was built using a slightly modified Halo 3 engine and shipped with a separate disk featuring all of the Halo 3 multiplayer content. However, I felt the title wasn't accurate. By associating itself with Halo 3 and the brand Microsoft established with Halo 3's original marketing campaign, would help ODST immensely. It was clear to me that the game's title, Halo 3: ODST, was a purely a marketing and branding construct. Halo 2: ODST would have been a much more difficult prospect to market to the game buying public. It would have caused confusion, even if it more accurately reflected the game.
With Reach, I was surprised by the game's title initially. I was expecting Halo 0 or Halo 4 but not Halo: Reach. Again, I think the name is reflective of the marketing and branding. This time there is no confusion about the game's standing. It's not Halo 3's sequel, you shouldn't be expecting the continuing adventures of Master Chief and the game's name does just that. I also think "Halo Zero" was initially considered but ultimately dropped as the game's name. "Game Name" - Zero doesn't have a good reputation with the game buying public as Microsoft's past published Perfect Dark Zero shows.
So Halo Reach isn't Halo 4. This has been established from the first announcement and as Bungie talks about Reach and how they consider it to be "Halo 4" due to the focus they have put on it, they are clear to state that Reach is its own story, its own game, a standalone that tells a separate, stand alone story in a familiar universe.
Take a step back to the Halo fan base. The players. In addition to Halo fan base, the loyal fans, Halo success has been, in large part, in its ability to draw in casual fans and gamers in general. You don't need to be a loyal Halo fan to pick up the controller and have a good time with any Halo title. The quality is there and it can stand up on its own without the community that has built up around it. Halo is much richer and enjoyable thanks to the community and the years of dedication they have given the franchise but the fact that the games themselves stand up to scrutiny on their own merits alone is a testament to the passion and talent of its developers.
The first Halo title established the franchise. All of the other games would build upon the foundations laid by the first game. It standardised many of the game play mechanics that today we take for granted when we put a new game in our consoles. It legitimised a genre, the first person shooter, on home consoles like no title before or after it (resisting the urge to mention Goldeneye here....).
The sequels continued the success of the first game and each new version brought new features and options and the end result is a comprehensive package of high quality features that other games struggle to match consistently. However, the one thing that stayed consistent, even with all the tweaks, additions and new features was the "feel".
Halo 2 was more than simply a prettier version of Halo: CE. The graphics has been enhanced, pushing the original Xbox quite far, and new features were added that fitted in perfectly. New weapons, new vehicles and new game play mechanics were all added. Players could now face off against opponents across the globe in epic online battles. There was a vocal minority that wasn't too please however. The Campaign's ending did upset some folks whilst others wanted more drastic changes implemented. Halo 2, in some people's eyes, was simply Halo 1.5 - it was very conservative in the changes it brought and the new features were careful not to disrupt the existing and returning features.
Fans went crazy. Halo's popularity continued to explode and the new online features created new groups of friends and new communities. The game sold very well, the growing Halo fan base was pleased and the more casual players were just as happy.
Halo 3 enjoyed a much smoother development than any of the previous Halo titles. Bungie had learned much during their time with the previous Halo games and Halo 3 benefitted greatly from this experience. Bungie had a unique opportunity this time around to experiment with the franchise. However, the final version of the game, with its changes, tweaks and additions was quite conservative. Equipment changed the dynamic from the previous games. The "Golden Tripod - Guns, Grenades and Melee" was gone. Despite this, the changes overall were again quite conservative, Equipment didn't disrupt the flow of the game play too much and fans warmed to its addition. New features were again added but fitted snugly with the returning features without disrupting them. Halo 3 pushed a greater focus on community content, saved films and pictures and map variants. These robust and rich features were welcomed with open arms by the fan base and the easy to use nature of these features meant that even casual players could enjoy them.
As with Halo 2, Halo 3 had its vocal detractors. Halo 2's success built up a larger number of fans opposed to further changes in the Halo formula and other fans who again wanted more drastic changes. Halo 3 was decried as Halo 2.5 or Halo 2 HD by some folks whilst other folks refused to play the game at all or partake in Halo 3's online community - sticking to the familiar Halo 2. It did seem as if, with each sequel, that Bungie took the middle path that wouldn't please either of these extremes. Changes were needed to keep the game fresh and compelling for new and returning players alike but at the same time these changes were conservative, to maintain the Halo "feel", an important aspect that separated Halo from the growing number of faceless FPS clones that had started to flood the market in Halo's wake.
The conservative changes and community focused additions that Halo 3 brought to the franchise was yet another success story. The title was met with high praise and strong sales. Fans and casual gamers alike were pleased. Countless hours were lost by millions of people all over the globe.
We return to ODST. This game was unlike any of the previous titles. It wasn't given a full development cycle or a full development focus. However, ODST was able to use these differences to its advantage. It could afford to be different. New takes on the existing formulas could be tried and they were. Despite being tethered to the Halo 3 engine, ODST brought some of the most radical changes and new features to the franchise than any title before it. Limited by its small scope, the game had high ambitions and an experimental nature. When it was released, loyal Halo fans delighted in changes it brought to the table. Casual Halo fans also gave the game a fair chance. It did reasonably well, especially for a game originally intended for an expansion, but its lack of content and lack of longetivity from the new features meant that loyal fans and casual gamers alike eventually went elsewhere.
ODST indicated that fans, both loyal and casual alike, were willing to play a Halo game that shook up the traditional game play mechanics.
Before the Reach Beta hit, loyal fans had set up their expectations based on the previous Halo titles. Conservative tweaks, changes and additions to the core formula whilst retaining the core "feel". If Halo 2 was Halo 1.5 and Halo 3 was Halo 2.5, fans expected Reach to be Halo 3.5. There is nothing wrong with this expectation. Fans, over a decade, have been given two sequels with conservative changes to the core game play formula whilst each version enhances the overall experience by adding new features that don't disrupt the status quo.
Reach isn't Halo 3.5 despite the expectations beforehand from the fan base. When Bungie announced Reach, it also announced that it was brining on fresh talent to the studio to help shape and define Reach. Reach set out to change the established formula, to alter it into something different.
Reach is the most radically unique Halo title. The changes it brings to the table dwarf the offerings of ODST. The game has been reconstructed from the ground up to incorporate the new direction and, at its core, it feels like a separate game from the rest of Halo franchise.
I think fans expecting Halo 3.5 will have to wait until the continuing of the traditional Halo series to return to Halo that they were anticipating. "Wake me, when you need me." Some fans are already calling.
Reach is its own game. It's still Halo, but it's not Halo 4.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
That was good Dani. I agree with it. Reach is exactly what i wanted, something different, yet still Halo. I'm glad Bungie went this way with it and i cant wait for September!
Zeouterlimits
Member
Good piece I felt myself largely agreeing with all of it, but the end..Dani said:
Do you think 343's Halo title will play closer to Halo 3 than Reach?
Because I think other than the universe & story 343's is going to be a different ball game. I think it'll more radically different than Reach is from 3. Just the fact that it's 99% a new team, "full" of their own creative ideas and desires.
I just don't think have some of cool group (those that we know of) that they do, if was to make the same but with whatever happens to the universe next.
LunaticPuma
dresses business casual
I pretty much disagree entirely with Dani. To me Reach is Halo 4. It has significant and worthwhile changes that show it is an evolution of the previous Halo game play.
The Librarian
Banned
Great post, Dani.
You know, despite my problems with it, I miss the Reach Beta.
You know, despite my problems with it, I miss the Reach Beta.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Zeouterlimits said:
I've been refraining from being pinned down as to exactly what I expect from the inevitable future Microsoft (343i ?) Halo title but since you've asked me directly...
I think any team following in Bungie's footsteps with developing a main Halo title has one hell of a challenge just reaching (heh!) the high bar set by Bungie.
To be honest I think that the team needs to, at the very least, match that high quality. They need to make a game that is as good, in terms of quality, as a Halo title. That's a massive task for any developer and even harder for a developer that just been created and haven't produced a single title before.
Small things that we Halo fan take for granted, such Bungie.net integration and the wealth of community features in Halo games are a massive undertaking in themselves and having to build a high quality game with a robust feature set, both single and multiplayer, alongside it.... well let's just say that calling it difficult or challenging would be an understatement.
Just matching Halo 3 or Reach, feature for feature, would be enough. More than enough for any new team to prove themselves capable. I wouldn't expect any less. Is there room for new features or new ideas? Sure there is, Halo is vast universe and with of unexplored opportunities in terms of both fiction and game play mechanics. I'm sure we'll see new ideas and fresh content. I just think the first new Halo game will be the biggest battle and I think that the priority would be living up to the expectations of fans world wide.
I am also pretty confident that Microsoft (343i ?) can do it. If you've been paying attention to the talent they have on board and looked at the high standards that they want from new staff when hiring, it's pretty clear they want the best of the best. Microsoft have scouting some of the best talent out there and it's clear they will be putting these guys to work.
Anyways, I don't think it's fair to dwell on this subject, we're really years away from anything of this being presented to the public in any kind of tangible form.
Reach is what is important right now and will be for the years to come.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Well that's a post (and conclusion being that Reach is what matters for now and the near future) I can get behind, but it didn't answer my question .
You implied towards the end of your 3.5 discussion that it was 343i who would come out with a title closer to 3 rather than Bungie.
That's all that I was questioning/looking for a deeper understanding of what you meant.
.You implied towards the end of your 3.5 discussion that it was 343i who would come out with a title closer to 3 rather than Bungie.
That's all that I was questioning/looking for a deeper understanding of what you meant.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Zeouterlimits said:Well that's a post (and conclusion being that Reach is what matters for now and the near future) I can get behind, but it didn't answer my question
You implied towards the end of your 3.5 discussion that it was 343i who would come out with a title closer to 3 rather than Bungie.
That's all that I was questioning/looking for a deeper understanding of what you meant.
Damm it, I thought that my wall of text would be safe enough to hide behind. =P
I feel MS (343i) should play it safe. Reach has been rather polarising so far. If they are going to continue the series, and placing a big fat 4 at the end of the title would be a heavy burden, they would be better off with a conservative approach and maybe a return to Halo 3's status quo rather than Reach's.
I feel Reach's changes are a big gamble and maybe just a bit too divergent from the traditional Halo formula for a Halo series entry, which it isn't. Reach seems to be a separate entry in the Halo universe and maybe right now we're not in the best position to judge what lessons we can learn from it going forward.
The mention of Halo 3.5 is a way to imply someone doesn't like change. It's a misreading of what most people who had issues with the Beta were saying. Or a deliberate attempt to provoke. I don't know which, but it's a meme that needs to die, hard.Dani said:
Good piece, BTW. Look forward to the full article.
Nonsense. But, I've edited for clarity. And yes, it was far too common in the Beta. Many, many times I and others would write lengthy posts explaining why something was in our view detrimental to the gameplay, and get the "well I'm just glad it's not Halo 3.5" in response. It was exhausting and frustrating, I was hoping to see it die when the Beta ended. So please excuse a little exasperation.electricpirate said:
electricpirate
Member
GhaleonEB said:
That name calling was way worse than anything the beta did.
"Ohh you just want halo 3.5 because you are an unimaginative moron."
"ohh, you just like reach because you aren't a true halo fan and suck at the game, and I'll use your killstats/time since registered to prove it."
I'm sure the full game will bring out just as much fun times!
Hydranockz
Member
Couldn't agree more ^^electricpirate said:
Kapura said:
Blame Urk. Tom or Chris will fix it as soon as they get in this morning.
Urk is out of the office today, leaving me in charge of the weekly update... weird not being able to scoop him. I admit I don't have much planned yet, I'll have to see where inspiration strikes as the day progresses. However I'm not averse to considering special requests either.
Hydranockz
Member
Funny pics of urk?ManCannon said:
I want a bold, underlined and italicised heading to rile up all the wordy peeps.
electricpirate
Member
ManCannon said:
Speaking of strike, any word on changes to the hammer, or how the hammer is used coming out of sprint?
Also, E3 teases are always appreciated
Thagomizer
Member
ManCannon said:
Is the embargo still up for showing the Beta maps with whatever shiny things were added to them?
Shake Appeal
Member
I'd love to hear about the network side of things (i.e. the 'feedback' and findings from the beta), but I imagine it is too late to get a decent interview together, and it would probably be quite technical and boring for most people anyway.