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Halo: Reach |OT3| This Thread is Not a Natural Formation
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Heysoos said:
Well from your comment it appears you mostly use it in BTB, which isn't the complaint.
xxjuicesxx
Member
I like this guy. He knows whats up.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
xxjuicesxx said:
Back under your bridge!
User 73706
Banned
Heeeeere we go. I guess I can just protect myself from the flame war using Armor Lock... WAIT, FU-
Account Attempt #4
Member
When I select the Armor Lock load out, I usually forget that I have it and die. Then when I respawn and instinctually try to sprint, the armor lock kicks on. Doh!
GhaleonEB said:
Helping my friends, having fun, and defending myself is bad?
Joking of course. I think what I meant to say was just that, it really isn't that hard to combat. I kinda get the hate for the ones that go into armor lock to take off your shield with the emp blast thing, but most of the time they give it away that they have armor lock before you're close enough, so it tends to not be a problem for me personally. In the chance that they do kill me this way, I try to keep a mental note so I know which players to be careful with.Last time I played Elite Slayer, I stuck someone, he armor locked and I died instead. Last time I played BTB, I tried to ram someone, he armor locked, and I died. Last time I played team slayer, I got someone down to one shot, he armor locked and a team mate came around the corner and finished me off. I'm not sure how you "combat" that other than not to play the game.Heysoos said:Helping my friends, having fun, and defending myself is bad?
From the user's perspective, it's awesome. From the perspective of me, on the receiving end, it's a horrible feature that makes the game unfun, cheap and downright infuriating. So unfun I'm reminded of why I don't play MP every time I go back and, um, play MP. I'm reminded of how utterly ruinous to the entire Halo sandbox its inclusion is.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Question.
Was the Chopper removed because it was so awesome even Armor lock couldn't stop it?
Something to ponder.
Sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled, bacon juice lubed, Bungie circle-jerkathon.
Was the Chopper removed because it was so awesome even Armor lock couldn't stop it?
Something to ponder.
Dax01 said:
Sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled, bacon juice lubed, Bungie circle-jerkathon.
The Librarian
Banned
Armor Lock Debate Round 1,343,777
NullPointer
Member
This is me tooAccount Attempt #4 said:
Barrow Roll
Member
JB1981JB1981 said:
I am full of shit.
Rich, smooth, creamy shit.
(Today, 06:04 PM)
Reply | Quote
GhaleonEB said:
I see, that really sucks that it ruined the game for you honestly. I just never had a major problem with it. Have I lost some kills to it? Yes, most definitely. I have also lost kills to people sprinting out of harms way and jet packing away from me. Honestly, it just takes a little adjusting to the way you play. Now you have to think twice before you boost into an enemy player. As for a different player coming around and killing you, it sounds like you just played a competent team. Most of the time, at least from my experience, this rarely happens when playing without friends. Which is why I stick to sprint on smaller playlists like Team Slayer. However, as for not knowing how to combat it, a good team, or hell just playing with friends usually goes a long way in my experience.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Heysoos said:
No, his point is it's an AA that you can't combat.
Every single other AA you're still vulnerable when you use it. Armor lock is the only one that is as versatile as it is, as effective as it is, and completely makes the user immune to damage. There is no fighting it, you can only leave, wait, or don't bother playing.
As I've said before, its "issues" become exponentially worse as more people on the team use it.
NullPointer
Member
Ain't that the truth. It should be a powerup on the map instead of a loadout option imo.Alienshogun said:
The Librarian
Banned
Yup. They do have meaning, those numbers.Plywood said:
GhaleonEB said:
I'm going to tread very lightly on this subject matter.
For the most part, I agree with Ghaleon here. Especially the remark for the 'user's perspective'. Spot on.
I also agree that it's inclusion in most playlists is not needed. 4v4? Not really, and by not really, I mean not needed. BTB? I... Guess.
I can see the appeal for it in a vehicle battle. But beyond that, it doesn't have a lot of uses. Sure, being invincible to by you a few more seconds could be useful, but it slows down gameplay. Almost to a crawl. Not to mention if you have an entire team using nothing but AL, it gets slower, and even more frustrating (especially with their team mopping up stragglers shooting at the guy in AL).
I don't see it's use outside of BTB. CTF; No use when the idea is to grab the flag and run. Oddball: Nope, you drop the ball. What's the point? Territories: AA's disabled in the territory (at least I think they are). Slayer: :-?
If it's not a vehicle heavy/use map, I don't see much of a point besides trolling people. The biggest problem to me is that it lasts a long time (Not REALLY long, but long enough to slow down the game, make you wait, and recharge health... At least that used to be an issue. Might still be) and if you 'pop' it quickly, you can 'pop' AGAIN if you had a full charge.
Obviously the AA is in the game for a reason. It made it past beta for a reason too. I don't know what changed between the beta and the release, but the community has spoken about it. I'm not gonna add more fuel to the fire or beat that poor, poor horse.
I personally feel that a nerf from your first lock would help. By that, I mean a delay between when you can and can't use it again. But that's just me. I feel it has more use in vehicle combat to a degree, but I feel that there are much more useful AAs out there (sprint being my favorite).
I'm not looking to start another flame war, just wanted to offer my two cents.
Alienshogun said:
Except for the fact that they're completely immobile. You're not going anywhere, and unless your team is close enough to provide any backup, you're almost certainly dead. If the user's team is close enough to provide back up, then they are probably close enough to provide help regardless of the armor ability the user is using. And while I'm sure this isn't the thing players like to do, retreating is still an option. Rather than giving the other team a kill, you can just retreat and wait for backup. Sure you didn't get the kill right there and then, but you still didn't give them the kill. I get the point that the user is invulnerable, but to say there's way to fight against armor lockers, is a little silly in my opinion.
Alas, this is definitely not going anywhere, I honestly didn't mean to start anything.
So far that, I do apologize. However, offer is still open if anyone wants to play any games sometimes. Unfortunately for me, most of my friends moved on to Blops or aren't on as much. Reach isn't nearly as fun without a party.ncsuDuncan
Member
I think Armor Lock should be useful for two situations:
- You're about to be splattered, Locking lets you survive and possibly EMP it, but does NOT kill the vehicle.
- Incoming grenade, Locking lets you survive the explosion if you time it right.
But unfortunately it's far more useful than that. Maybe reducing the amount of time you can stay in a lock would be the simplest fix, provided there's a delay before you can lock again.
What if:
- You could still be Assassinated while Locking? (Maybe still resistant to normal melee attacks.)
or
- Popping out of a Lock drains your shield, regardless of what level it was at before. (Also resets your shield recharge timer.)
Really, for an AA that makes you invincible, not being able to move is too small a consequence.
It should allow you to survive certain situations, but not all of them.
- You're about to be splattered, Locking lets you survive and possibly EMP it, but does NOT kill the vehicle.
- Incoming grenade, Locking lets you survive the explosion if you time it right.
But unfortunately it's far more useful than that. Maybe reducing the amount of time you can stay in a lock would be the simplest fix, provided there's a delay before you can lock again.
What if:
- You could still be Assassinated while Locking? (Maybe still resistant to normal melee attacks.)
or
- Popping out of a Lock drains your shield, regardless of what level it was at before. (Also resets your shield recharge timer.)
Really, for an AA that makes you invincible, not being able to move is too small a consequence.
It should allow you to survive certain situations, but not all of them.
That's true for many games, Halo notably. You need teamwork to win most 4v4/Big Team games. People just seem to nitpick this kind of stuff to knock the game for some reason.Heysoos said:
re: AL
There's absolutely nothing wrong with AL being in BTB/Invasion. I figured that's how Bungie viewed it, as well, but I was off on that. BTB has other issues that get ignored or grounded, too, like its horrific gametype weightings and Countdown. -_-
No.Heysoos said:
You seem to be forgetting a key difference here. With a sprinter or jet packer, not only is he still vulnerable to nades or your teammates, but he had to sprint or jet pack long before you get him to no shields. With armor lock, someone can get in a legit firefight with you, and as soon as they realize they are going to lose with no shields, they hit the SAVE ME OH GOD PLEASE IM NOT GOOD ENOUGH button.
Well that's already goddamn annoying, now lets see the effects.
Slows down my gameplay, and his. I don't even care if I'll get the kill at the end, the fun of the firefight was ruined and I'm not playing a waiting game, ready to chuck my grenade if I have one. I'm now forced to wait however long Armor Lock is for the guy.
Or.... one of his teammates comes and engages me. It sucks I was already weak from my battle with him, but hey, maybe I can take hi- NO WAIT, the AL'er popped out and started shooting me to. RIP Topgun.
But just for shits and giggles, lets look at the ways of combatting armor lock.
1. Wait a good distance away and wait.
a) Slows down gameplay
b) teammate can come and kill you
c) if no grenade, you it will take two DMR shots to kill him due to frosting and recharging shields
2. Go away
a) LOL AT PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS IS A GOOD STRATEGY.
b) you're giving that guy a free life when he shouldn't have one. One less kill in team slayer.
b) nothing is stopping him from coming out and shooting at your instantly once you turn your back
c) back away facing him? Then you're focused on him and can't go kill anyone else. If someone does come, he'll just pop out and shoot you too.
In short. No. Armor Lock is a terrible gameplay idea. It's fun for the user if he feels like trolling. Not fun for anyone else. Also, a team of armor lockers is ridiculous.
And now, some rendered videos from my experiences.
Me, someone who barely uses AL, demonstrating how easy it is to wreck people with.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7301963&player=Tawpgun
A team of armor lockers...
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=5833959&player=Tawpgun
No. No. No. This is even worse than second chance in CoD. At least there you can kill the guy really fast after you down him, most likely in the same spray, regardless if he can shoot you or not.
Part of what you quoted is my opinion. I do not play much MP, and when I do, only a couple games before I stop, and AL is a very large part of why. So, that's just a fact.JB1981 said:
To the rest: Nope. It's an AA without a counter.
Vehicle meets, AL, vehicle dies.
I go for melee, they armor lock, I bounce off and get bonked in return.
Sticky someone, they AL, the grenade falls off.
Win a DMR duel, they AL, someone else finishes you off.
Therefore, AL > Guns, vehicles, melee, grenades. Which is the entire Halo sandbox.
If it did not 1) destroy vehicles, 2) shed sticky grenades and 3) allow rapid multiple uses, I'd have no issue with it. An ability to be immobile yet invulnerable is well balanced. But AL has a number of secondary features associated with it, making it far too multipurpose.Hydranockz said:
There I go with the hyperbole again.
Hydranockz
Member
You nailed it. I agree with you though. The situation always allows the player not using the AL to adapt. My only gripe with AL is pulsing it when I have sword/shotty or whatever. That is the only problem I have with it.Heysoos said:Except for the fact that they're completely immobile. You're not going anywhere, and unless your team is close enough to provide any backup, you're almost certainly dead. If the user's team is close enough to provide back up, then they are probably close enough to provide help regardless of the armor ability the user is using. And while I'm sure this isn't the thing players like to do, retreating is still an option. Rather than giving the other team a kill, you can just retreat and wait for backup. Sure you didn't get the kill right there and then, but you still didn't give them the kill. I get the point that the user is invulnerable, but to say there's way to fight against armor lockers, is a little silly in my opinion.
Alas, this is definitely not going anywhere, I honestly didn't mean to start anything.
Refreshing opinion is refreshing.
Vehicle =/= splatter.GhaleonEB said:
I've already admitted my gripe with melee.
As for the last 2, I feel it causes a nice shift in tactics. Both players are forced to evaluate their current status when AL is initiated. Is the attacker weak? If so, they should not be chasin' the kill. The attacker can often judge the exact moment the AL will run out, dodge that sticky hero. Pulsing it is the only deal breaker for me but on every other issue there are actually ways to observe AL as not being super OP.
Your vehicle play is flawed in that if the player has rockets, you're screwed for getting too close. You won't know unless you suss out the player first. Going in head first when you don't realise th player could potentially have AL/Rockets is a schoolboy error.
Tactics fellas
Trueskill is in this game? I never would have guessed. Also, while I'm in my bitching mode, who the hell thought Breakpoint was any fun at all for anything aside from Invasion? "My Banshee is almost dead, looks like I'll just fly around their Banshee spawn until theirs spawns."
"You know what, let's remake Ivory Tower, this time let's add armor abilities that screw with map control." And finally, I'd like to send an amen to the people who quit as soon as the other team captures a flag. It's not like it's possible to win after that.
Looks like I'm sticking to Firefight for a while. Hope I don't come across any idlers... OH WAIT! They can move for a couple seconds--that way they aren't idle the entire game.
In reality I'm sticking to Custom Games and Custom Firefights. Not much is worth my time between poorly implemented game mechanics, douchey players, bad maps, and terrible spawns.
"You know what, let's remake Ivory Tower, this time let's add armor abilities that screw with map control." And finally, I'd like to send an amen to the people who quit as soon as the other team captures a flag. It's not like it's possible to win after that.
Looks like I'm sticking to Firefight for a while. Hope I don't come across any idlers... OH WAIT! They can move for a couple seconds--that way they aren't idle the entire game.
In reality I'm sticking to Custom Games and Custom Firefights. Not much is worth my time between poorly implemented game mechanics, douchey players, bad maps, and terrible spawns.
KidA Seven
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Agreed.
Most importantly, it slows the game play down. What a piece of shit AL is.
Steelyuhas
Member
ncsuDuncan said:
I agree with what you think should be uses of AL. To fix it, cutting the usage time in half would really really help. And when you use it, the whole meter is gone.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Hydranockz
Member
Dani said:
User 73706
Banned
I think the problem is that it's the only defensive supplementary (whereas Sprint and Jetpack are mostly designed for movement, and Sprint doesn't even technically require the button to be held down) AA that allows you to keep the effect up. With Drop Shield, it's limited to a single location. With Hologram, if you mess up, you have to beat the hologram to death and wait for your meter to recharge, and so on and so forth. I think another aid in countering Armor Lock would be some sort of notable visible indicator, like how the Jetpack actually has a huge, visible AA on your back. This isn't really necessary with things like Hologram, etc. because not knowing that you're enemy can turn outright invincible is a bit more significant a surprise than, say, someone trying to sprint-melee you or something. Maybe if Armor Lock had some sort of dynamic light source that would attach to the user's back similar to Cortana in PoA, or something like that. Half of the time, Armor Lock deaths aren't out of stupidity so much as they are not knowing that the enemy has Armor Lock.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Hydranockz said:Somone really loves pie charts today
Damm right.
You forgot the slice where MetaHaloGAF comments on the content of the thread. That's at least a 10% sliver.
Honestly, once (when?) the BTB playlist gets cleaned up, I'll be fine as it's much less of an issue there. My problem with BTB is getting stuck playing stuff like Crazy King on Boneyard with a 30-second hill timer when I want neutral Assault and CTF on maps like Tempest.Tashi0106 said:
Heysoos said:
This is very wrong. Immobility is, at worst, a minor inconvenience. I've certainly never had an instance where moving rather than armor locking saved my life. And it ruins alot of tactics. If you had a jump on a player, he immediately armor locks, shields recharge, and he is on you instantly. On top of that, he has the advantage of striking first because he knows exactly when the charge runs out. Further, maps for 4v4 are small. That there is a teammate around the corner is a high probability, not a chance possibility. It's definitely ruined many kills that should have been mine. No, armor lock is a cancer on small maps. I am absolutely baffled as to why it still hasn't been removed or nerfed.
Stormtrooper30
Member
Dani said:
Hydranockz
Member
That sliver also contains disussions of the discussion of the rest of the pie. Recursion all the way...GhaleonEB said:You forgot the slice where MetaHaloGAF comments on the content of the thread. That's at least a 10% sliver.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
GhaleonEB said:You forgot the slice where MetaHaloGAF comments on the content of the thread. That's at least a 10% sliver.
I'm sure I have a chart for that.... lol.
Speaking of MLG...V3 released!! I've been playing them for a little while, lets get these bad boys in the playlist now.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/halo-reach-v3-settings/
Bnet fileshare
Some things to take note of. 2 New maps! Nexus and Element. They might be the ones I played but under a different name. I'm not sure.
Also, King of the Hill apparently didn't make it passed the testing phase.
5 flag no longer has touch return. There is a 3 second return time much like Halo 3. However you have to basically sit on the flag for it to return and can't do it from a few feet away like in Halo 3.
Reflection is out. 1 Flag is out. Ball gametypes are out. I'm kind of happy they dropped Bomb on Countdown, I wasn't really a fan.
Oh man, I'm excited to have a finalized set of 11 gametypes. I wonder if these maps are different from the ones I've played. I'm excited either way. V3 is the real deal now. I just wish I could make it to Dallas with my team((((((
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/halo-reach-v3-settings/
Bnet fileshare
Some things to take note of. 2 New maps! Nexus and Element. They might be the ones I played but under a different name. I'm not sure.
Also, King of the Hill apparently didn't make it passed the testing phase.
5 flag no longer has touch return. There is a 3 second return time much like Halo 3. However you have to basically sit on the flag for it to return and can't do it from a few feet away like in Halo 3.
Reflection is out. 1 Flag is out. Ball gametypes are out. I'm kind of happy they dropped Bomb on Countdown, I wasn't really a fan.
Oh man, I'm excited to have a finalized set of 11 gametypes. I wonder if these maps are different from the ones I've played. I'm excited either way. V3 is the real deal now. I just wish I could make it to Dallas with my team
((((((Not posted?
I am disappoint.
"Reach's new downloadable map pack is explained in detail in this interview with Frank O'Connor, 343's Director of Franchise Development!"
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/defiant-map-halo-reach/711055
I am disappoint.
"Reach's new downloadable map pack is explained in detail in this interview with Frank O'Connor, 343's Director of Franchise Development!"
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/defiant-map-halo-reach/711055
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Falagard said:
The HaloGAF Cycle cannot be disturbed! We have no time for new videos!
Sweet, nice find.
Devin Olsen
Member
What was wrong with Reflection?Tashi0106 said:
xxxstylzxxx
Member
Tashi0106 said:Speaking of MLG...V3 released!! I've been playing them for a little while, lets get these bad boys in the playlist now.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/halo-reach-v3-settings/
Some things to take note of. 2 New maps! Nexus and Element. They might be the ones I played but under a different name. I'm not sure.
Also, King of the Hill apparently didn't make it passed the testing phase.
5 flag no longer has touch return. There is a 3 second return time much like Halo 3. However you have to basically sit on the flag for it to return and can't do it from a few feet away like in Halo 3.
Reflection is out. 1 Flag is out. Ball gametypes are out . I'm kind of happy they dropped Bomb on Countdown, I wasn't really a fan.
Oh man, I'm excited to have a finalized set of 11 gametypes. I wonder if these maps are different from the ones I've played. I'm excited either way. V3 is the real deal now. I just wish I could make it to Dallas with my team
That's kind of disappointing as I love both playing and watching Oddball matches. So how come it was removed? Also a shame that they couldn't find a way to make KOTH work.