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[Bregmann Roche]

its as designed (overpowered and super-awesome)

Hire Juices.

The argument in favor of something like Bubble Shield vs. Armor Lock is that Bubble Shield is a one-time use. Overshield is the same idea but slightly more limited. I don't think many people would argue that Overshield should be removed from the game. Slowing down the game is fine with me as long as it doesn't happen for too long or too often.

Edited because ncsuDuncan types faster than me.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Edited because ncsuDuncan types faster than me.

Still waiting on a Master Chief Teaches Typing game so I can show off my SLACO runs. (Solo, Legendary, All-Caps On)

 

[The Librarian]

So far I've played three games in the Community Slayer playlist this time around, and it went Kingdom, Crown of Flies, then Kingdom again. Not sure if it was luck or emerging preferences; in all three games those maps got all but one or two votes.

But I agree wholeheartedly on that last point. The main thing that turned me off from the playlist the last two times around was running into maps filled with hard, narrow corners or sight lines obscured with pieces sticking out of the ground. I felt like a rat in a maze on several of them. The two maps I've played - and had from customs - feature a mix of open spaces and long sight lines with very carefully placed cover points and elevation changes. The last game on Kingdom was spectacular, a very intense game where both sides were using team work to catch players in crossfires. I'm usually not a Team Slayer guy, but I could play that all day.

Looks like I'll have to try out the Community playlist soon. Glad to see it getting some praise.

 

[Gui_PT]

Still waiting on a Master Chief Teaches Typing game so I can show off my SLACO runs. (Solo, Legendary, All-Caps On)

-_-

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yes I'm sorry I just wanted to get 10 assists in FF. I guess it was too much to ask for considering the 3 assholes I have jumping up and down idling for points...

Thanks I'm glad they get to be Eclipse and Nova ranks...

For fucks sake do SOMETHING BUNGIE.

I'm increasingly convinced nothing will be done. Really hope to be proven wrong, but Bungie hasn't commented on it. It's a tough nut to crack.

 

[kylej]

Shouldn't the "banhammer" deal with all that stuff? I feel like I've been hearing about this super refined, ready to pounce banhammer for years now but never see much come of it.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Shouldn't the "banhammer" deal with all that stuff? I feel like I've been hearing about this super refined, ready to pounce banhammer for years now but never see much come of it.

Well I think I've seen the effects of the new banhammer, getting in a game with hackers and seeing them banned within hours.

But how do you separate Firefight idlers from legitimately bad players?
It's far more difficult than detecting AFK players making no controller inputs (or constant inputs, i.e rubber band on the controller).

Do you look at their low scores? Lack of kills? Maybe an adjustment to the AFK code that ignores the random spurts of activity?
I just don't see how Bungie can implement such a thing without angry calls to Microsoft from legitimately slow/bad players. And banning someone that doesn't deserve it should be avoided at all cost.

 

[feel]

-_-

Aww c'mon it wasn't that bad. :lol

 

[Blue Ninja]

Well I think I've seen the effects of the new banhammer, getting in a game with hackers and seeing them banned within hours.

But how do you separate Firefight idlers from legitimately bad players?
It's far more difficult than detecting AFK players making no controller inputs (or constant inputs, i.e rubber band on the controller).

Do you look at their low scores? Lack of kills? Maybe an adjustment to the AFK code that ignores the random spurts of activity?
I just don't see how Bungie can implement such a thing without angry calls to Microsoft from legitimately slow/bad players. And banning someone that doesn't deserve it should be avoided at all cost.

Pretty much. Idlers isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the people playing it. I can't really see how something can be done about that, no matter how much I'd love to.

I just stopped heading into Firefight alone. Either I'll do Score Attack, or I'll join a party of people I know. Avoid those situations.

 

[urk]

Pretty much. Idlers isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the people playing it. I can't really see how something can be done about that, no matter how much I'd love to.

Banhammer does run idle detection, but its difficult to make nimble programmatic distinctions between players who are idling and players who are simply not great at the game. Two weeks ago I had to talk down an angry parent whose son had been banned for idling. After reviewing the game files, it was clear that little man wasn't gaming the system at all, he was simply terrible at Halo. Proud papa was forced to admit that his own begotten son had achieved ban worthy levels of suck at Halo. No matter how much he played, he just couldn't get a kill. In a world where we we're too careless with idle rules, we'd be banning players like Ghaleon's daughter as she took her first Halo steps into matchmaking. Catch-22's. Let me show you them.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

Master Chief Typing Pony Adventure Quest

Mavis Beacon takes over for Jen Taylor as the voice of Cortana. Instead of playing half the game as the Arbiter you instead spend every other level playing Math Blaster. Everyone crashes TypoGAF to complain about Caps Lock slowing down game play.

It's a beautiful future. One I want to be a part of.

 

[feel]

Proud papa was forced to admit that his own begotten son had achieved ban worthy levels of suck at Halo.

I laughed at this.

And couldn't the system detect players who weren't moving a certain distance away from spawn or pulling the trigger with red crosshair a few times per game? (just two examples) Finding idle players with just carnage report data seems like a weak effort.

 

[NullPointer]

... Proud papa was forced to admit that his own begotten son had achieved ban worthy levels of suck at Halo.

Oh jeez. That's pretty messed up.

I can empathize with the technical issues, but it has become something of an epidemic with Firefight. So Blue Ninja's rules fit for now: Either play with friends or do Score Attack.

Maybe its possible to disincentivize the behavior rather than ban the idlers. Adjusting Cr payouts so that in Firefight its purely about kills with no payout for completing the game? People that have banhammer levels of suck would lose out on points, but maybe idling wouldn't be worth spending the time to do.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh jeez. That's pretty messed up.

I can empathize with the technical issues, but it has become something of an epidemic with Firefight. So Blue Ninja's rules fit for now: Either play with friends or do Score Attack.

Maybe its possible to disincentivize the behavior rather than ban the idlers. Adjusting Cr payouts so that in Firefight its purely about kills with no payout for completing the game? People that have banhammer levels of suck would lose out on points, but maybe idling wouldn't be worth spending the time to do.

Firefight's Game Complete bonuses are already throttled back a bit relative to multiplayer (Score Attack is set to about 1/4 multiplayer).

I understand that calibrating the ban hammer such that it doesn't ban bad/new/young players while also picking up the myriad other types of miscreants is impossible. But I keep thinking there's got to be a way to distinguish from Natalie getting a handful of kills versus that dude hanging out in the vent on Courtyard for 20 minutes. Or the game juices posted, where three players did nothing (except die).

I've got dozens of instances of players not playing, or popping out once in a while to score a few points and then go back to not playing. Or better yet, deliberate strings of suicides.

 

[NullPointer]

Why do I keep thinking that the "kid" that was banned for suckage was really, ahem, Marty?

Lets not forget the "Be Like Marty" achievement in ODST that you unlock by completing a round without getting a single kill. Thank the Forerunners that achievement didn't carry over to Reach. Or maybe some players didn't get the memo?

(Love ya Marty and I'm listening to your music now at work. Reach is easy to program to)

 

[Gui_PT]

Two weeks ago I had to talk down an angry parent whose son had been banned for idling. After reviewing the game files, it was clear that little man wasn't gaming the system at all, he was simply terrible at Halo. Proud papa was forced to admit that his own begotten son had achieved ban worthy levels of suck at Halo. No matter how much he played, he just couldn't get a kill.

Was it Dax? Coincidentally enough, I haven't seen him online lately.


Seriously now. Is that how you check idlers? By kills? Wouldn't it be better to check for actual lack of movement?(Asking an actual question here, not trying to be funny)

 

[Blue Ninja]

Something's been bugging me about Reach's campaign, and especially "Winter Contingency". I played it on co-op once, and when the door of the Relay station closed behind us, I heard Carter say: "We need to find the control room. From there, Kat can get the relay back online. Emile, post here. If we flush any hostiles, they're yours. All right, let's do this."

However, before that, and ever since then, I've never heard it in any of my solo games. Ever. Carter just stares at me like an idiot and then takes off, and Emile stays behind without being ordered to. Maybe it has something to do with being a PAL copy or something?

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Seriously now. Is that how you check idlers? By kills? Wouldn't it be better to check for actual lack of movement?(Asking an actual question here, not trying to be funny)

Theory: There are a couple ways to get an idle ban.
1) No controller input at all. (Obviously AFK)
2) Constant, faked controller input (rubber band on controller).
3) Varied input, but a streak of games where you get no kills and do little to no damage to other players. (Which would indicate you have a modded controller run by a bot, giving random inputs)

I guess maybe the kid got banned for option 3, but they checked the games and saw that he was actually moving around and pulling the trigger like a real person. He was just registering so few hits that the game assumed he was using some kind of modded contoller

 

[urk]

Seriously now. Is that how you check idlers? By kills? Wouldn't it be better to check for actual lack of movement?(Asking an actual question here, not trying to be funny)

Without tipping too much of our hand and enabling players whose experience is mainly dedicated to circumventing these systems, we do check for lack of input, along with tons of other behaviors that may or may not be indicative of "badness." It's a process. One might even say it's a war of attrition.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Everyone if you don't like team slayer's infamous use of AL, then go play The Arena, it is just like team slayer without cloak and armor lock.

 

[kylej]

Everyone if you don't like team slayer's infamous use of AL, then go play The Arena, it is just like team slayer without cloak and armor lock.

They put radar back in their competitive playlist so no competitive people will ever play it.


o_o

 

[GhaleonEB]

Thanks for the comments, Urk. Idlers are really doing a job on Limited, good to know you guys are looking into it. War of attrition is a good framing for it.

Two videos.

I had a some exchanges a few days back - I can't remember with who - about feeling cheated at times in the campaign. Someone said they never felt cheated in campaign, and I said the AI does cheat, especially the Wraiths. This is from Firefight, but it's an example of what I meant: Wraiths can shoot backward. That nailed me once a weeks ago and I've been wary since and know to watch for it. But players cannot fire the mortar from that angle.

One other thing that clip highlights is one of my favorite graphical flourishes on Beachhead: the shadows of the rolling clouds overhead moving across the grass. Sometimes I just hang out looking at it. Great detail that adds some nice atmosphere to the map.

From yesterday, a more amusing moment. I was playing Score Attack 2x - a current favorite to get automatic weapon and vehicle kills - and a drop pod of Brutes came down during the Brute wave. They normally file up the stairs, so I waited back there and took out the first guy to appear. But the other three didn't show up. I spent the rest of the game paranoid they were going to come barreling in at an inopportune moment. They never came.

I had to go back to the film to learn their fate.

 

[NullPointer]

I had a some exchanges a few days back - I can't remember with who - feeling cheated; someone said they never felt cheated in campaign, and I said the AI does cheat, especially the Wraiths. This is from Firefight, but it's an example of what I meant: Wraiths can shoot backward. That nailed me once a weeks ago and I've been wary since and know to watch for it. But players cannot fire the mortar from that angle.

What the hell? Not cool Bungie. Not cool.

From yesterday, a more amusing moment. I was playing Score Attack 2x - a current favorite to get automatic weapon and vehicle kills - and a drop pod of Brutes came down during the Brute wave. They normally file up the stairs, so I waited back there and took out the first guy to appear. But the other three didn't show up. I spent the rest of the game paranoid they were going to come barreling in at an inopportune moment. They never came.

I had to go back to the film to learn their fate.

HAHAHAHAHA Brutes. I hate those Brute Kill teams so its nice to see them getting whats coming to em.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

They put radar back in their competitive playlist so no competitive people will ever play it.


o_o

I like it, besides its population is up. I think Bungie is making the right choice with Arena.

 

[Account Attempt #4]

They put radar back in their competitive playlist so no competitive people will ever play it.


o_o

Doesn't this lack of competitive players just facilitate "donging on bad kids", as it were? Bungie seems to park The Arena just shy of the super competitive benchmark and hoping that MLG will fill this "bucket" in Matchmaking. I guess Arena would land somewhere between the general Team Slayer/BTB and MLG playlists? I am no particular fan of radar. I know where to find it in the playlists if I want it and agree that it would be nice to have another realm to romp radar free and rely on team coordination to gain the W.
-Edited

 

[___]

Ah, Halo:Reach. The main reason I signed up for this board. Now that I'm finally approved, I'm sad to say that this game has lost almost all of my attention.

Reach is not at all a bad game. I just can't stand to play it for very long. I used to be able to play it for hours. I just can't do that anymore. Now I just find myself checking the challenges and possibly playing a few games of Grifball with a few friends. =/

 

[Gui_PT]

Without tipping too much of our hand and enabling players whose experience is mainly dedicated to circumventing these systems, we do check for lack of input, along with tons of other behaviors that may or may not be indicative of "badness." It's a process. One might even say it's a war of attrition.

Thanks for that. Good to see idlers is one of your concerns.

 

[Slightly Live]

I like it, besides its population is up. I think Bungie is making the right choice with Arena.

Is there anything in Reach you particularly like? Or is it all rose and brown coloured sunshine happiness for you?

Surely there must be a few things that rub you the wrong way?

 

[electricpirate]

Ehh, the competitive players are playing MLG anyways, The Arena is trying to inhabit some kind of space between standard slayer and MLG.

It would work for me, if they didn't put fucking evade in the loadouts. I didn't mid evade at first, but add a sword or shotgun, and I just don't want to touch it.

 

[Louis Wu]

A bit late, because I don't get to log in here every few hours, but...

Oh my God, why must my random teammates be so terrible!?

Meet iJETk.

Must be his little brother playing on his gamertag; looks like usually he's pretty good. Overall K/D is 1.62, with many playlists well over 2.0. (500 competitive games, total, so a decent sample, even.)

You just got unlucky with that match.

I really love, however, how the first two responses to you are all about how shitty Trueskill is.

 

[Sikamikanico]

I want to play some Community Slayer...but don't make me go in their alone!! PLEASE GOD.

Any takers? Send me a message, GT: Sikamikanico

Also, if anyone wants to leave any feedback on Kingdom over at Optimatch, please do so!

 

[Squall ASF]

I would like to ask what the opponents of AL think of the bubble shield and regen. They did the same thing to gameplay as AL is doing right now. All they offered was a second chance for opponents (who should have been dead for putting themselves in bad positions), and a slowdown of game play.

Hopefully they're consistent because there was a lot less criticism for those two back in Halo 3.

All 3 are awful.

Incorrect, sir. There are a number of options to still quickly kill someone using regen: 1. Power weapons 2. two people BR'ing their head at once 3. Supercombine with Needler 4. A couple grenades 5. Step inside the regen and beat them down 6. Splatter them, etc. All of these methods can be employed quickly, the regen really isn't a big deal.

Bubble shield, Dax covered pretty well. People typically were really weak in shield so you can simply beat them down or toss a grenade in. You can also drive right through it and splatter someone. Someone else mentioned that these were items and can only be used once (per respawn). AL can be spammed. AL there is only one option: Wait until it ends. There really is no comparison. Not to mention the shield and regen can equally benefit an opponent should they get within range where as AL only assists the wielder.

On another note, I'll have to try out your map soon squid. I want to finish the weekly challenge first but after that, I'll check out community slayer. Like what I've been hearing from a few of you about that map and Kingdom as well.

Firefight's Game Complete bonuses are already throttled back a bit relative to multiplayer (Score Attack is set to about 1/4 multiplayer).

I understand that calibrating the ban hammer such that it doesn't ban bad/new/young players while also picking up the myriad other types of miscreants is impossible. But I keep thinking there's got to be a way to distinguish from Natalie getting a handful of kills versus that dude hanging out in the vent on Courtyard for 20 minutes. Or the game juices posted, where three players did nothing (except die).

I've got dozens of instances of players not playing, or popping out once in a while to score a few points and then go back to not playing. Or better yet, deliberate strings of suicides.

What vent on Courtyard are you talking about?

 

[Squall ASF]

Double Post

 

[Falagard]

Banhammer does run idle detection, but its difficult to make nimble programmatic distinctions between players who are idling and players who are simply not great at the game. Two weeks ago I had to talk down an angry parent whose son had been banned for idling. After reviewing the game files, it was clear that little man wasn't gaming the system at all, he was simply terrible at Halo. Proud papa was forced to admit that his own begotten son had achieved ban worthy levels of suck at Halo. No matter how much he played, he just couldn't get a kill. In a world where we we're too careless with idle rules, we'd be banning players like Ghaleon's daughter as she took her first Halo steps into matchmaking. Catch-22's. Let me show you them.

I resent this, it was my son we're talking about. And I didn't talk to you, I talked to a guy named Chris at Bungie, stop lying.

 

[Sikamikanico]

Just played CoF, got thouroughly destroyed. Still love the map, the other team knew their shit.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Without tipping too much of our hand and enabling players whose experience is mainly dedicated to circumventing these systems, we do check for lack of input, along with tons of other behaviors that may or may not be indicative of "badness." It's a process. One might even say it's a war of attrition.

Well then how is it every idler I see has made it so far into the ranks? Most of them are at least past Legend into the Space icons. I mean I just ran into a Noble? and a Nova! They have to be idling pretty frequently and still haven't been caught. They all had 0 points in my game and only one was actually moving at all (had his jump button on automatic) the other two were just completely still. How can it not detect that and reset their shit?

Can't we just SHOW you the game and you give them a good month credit ban as a warning?

A bit late, because I don't get to log in here every few hours, but...

Must be his little brother playing on his gamertag; looks like usually he's pretty good. Overall K/D is 1.62, with many playlists well over 2.0. (500 competitive games, total, so a decent sample, even.)

You just got unlucky with that match.

I really love, however, how the first two responses to you are all about how shitty Trueskill is.

I agree with this, but the problem is: No Ranked/Social distinction. A breakdown of some of the events reasons follows.

1. Arena tried to take its place and failed
2. New ranking and ladder system is temporary (resets every month, now every 3) and requires a decent amount of consistency. Gods get thrown back into the shit at the reset creates unfairness to the casual players every couple months.
3. Arbitrary 5 divisions and an unfair kill/death, asssist, scoring system led people to frustration.
4. People now just go into competitive
5. Also competitive has better playlists I can't go into MLG ranked or SWAT ranked...
6. Arena can't even do objective gametypes...FAIL
7. So the kid goes into competitive when serious, and when his brother plays and doesn't know what hes doing, he goes into the SAME playlist.


Also, again, More clips for the HaloGAF montage are needed, since the influx of juniors just came it would be nice to see some stuff from you guys too. A lot of the older members are still MIA too, especially Ram Nutter Omlet and that crew...

 

[Sibylus]

Except sticky grenades have a history in Halo's gameplay. And who said anything about sticking vehicles? I'm talking about people. Players in vehicles surviving sticky grenades has been an aspect of Halo's gameplay since the beginning.

For all intents and purposes, it's still an exception (as vehicles are quite clearly an extension of the player's body, and sometimes save them by mere feet). Loadouts and carried guns themselves can be stuck, and the user will still survive if he ditches them quickly enough. Plasma Grenades have always been conditional in their damage. Whereas for Armour Lock, the user survives any and all damage, no matter the placement or type.

 

[Hydranockz]

Just played CoF, got thouroughly destroyed. Still love the map, the other team knew they're shit.

I got your back bro Letting a bad team win is ok... sometimes... I dunno.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Can we get a bit of an in depth explanation on how the new Arena works? So far it seems the same as the old one. :S

I know the main difference is in the fact that we are ranked based on win/loss rather than ratings, but all the other problems still exist. It actually almost seems worse, I assume we have to play for more days, and dont know our rating for 3 months?

 

[Gui_PT]

Well then how is it every idler I see has made it so far into the ranks? Most of them are at least past Legend into the Space icons. I mean I just ran into a Noble? and a Nova! They have to be idling pretty frequently and still haven't been caught. They all had 0 points in my game and only one was actually moving at all (had his jump button on automatic) the other two were just completely still. How can it not detect that and reset their shit?

If you watch the Nova guy's game history, every few games he gets a couple of kills, but for the most of it he just idles.

I'd say this is proof enough, Urk. Unfortunately =\

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/PlayerGameHistory.aspx?player=X 3 N R O X

 

[Hydranockz]

If you watch the Nova guy's game history, every few games he gets a couple of kills, but for the most of it he just idles.

I'd say this is proof enough, Urk. Unfortunately =\

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/PlayerGameHistory.aspx?player=X 3 N R O X

You mean you've never played FF for 8 hours straight (I dare not go on to the second page)?

No wonder you and I are not Nova's yet

 

[Tawpgun]

You know what. I was planning on making a machinima series that pokes fun at Reach's problems. Almost like a satire, but not really.

But I think I might just make something standalone dealing with armor lock. If you fundamentally disagree with the Anti-Armor Lock complaints, and you don't mind slowing down the game as long as you eventually SHOULD get the kill, then this won't change your mind.

But it might at least enlighten some people as to why we think Armor Lock is bullshit.

It'll probably be me speaking while also showing scenarios with armor lock. I'll defend the points against armor lock while attacking the things people say about Armor Lock and how its good.

And I will post this video in any armor lock argument because I'm sick of writing big paragraphs trying to explain it to people. Any gaffers are willing to help if they want.

 

[Hydranockz]

You know what. I was planning on making a machinima series that pokes fun at Reach's problems. Almost like a satire, but not really.

But I think I might just make something standalone dealing with armor lock. If you fundamentally disagree with the Anti-Armor Lock complaints, and you don't mind slowing down the game as long as you eventually SHOULD get the kill, then this won't change your mind.

But it might at least enlighten some people as to why we think Armor Lock is bullshit.

It'll probably be me speaking while also showing scenarios with armor lock. I'll defend the points against armor lock while attacking the things people say about Armor Lock and how its good.

And I will post this video in any armor lock argument because I'm sick of writing big paragraphs trying to explain it to people. Any gaffers are willing to help if they want.

I don't think anyone disputes that it slows down the game. I think... that people who like AL really do not care for the 'speed' at which you would rather play Halo at.

I wanna see that machinima either way!

 

[Gui_PT]

You mean you've never played FF for 8 hours straight (I dare not go on to the second page)?

No wonder you and I are not Nova's yet

Yeah, why are we hating on him? It's our fault for not doing the same!

 

[MrBig]

You know what. I was planning on making a machinima series that pokes fun at Reach's problems. Almost like a satire, but not really.

But I think I might just make something standalone dealing with armor lock. If you fundamentally disagree with the Anti-Armor Lock complaints, and you don't mind slowing down the game as long as you eventually SHOULD get the kill, then this won't change your mind.

But it might at least enlighten some people as to why we think Armor Lock is bullshit.

It'll probably be me speaking while also showing scenarios with armor lock. I'll defend the points against armor lock while attacking the things people say about Armor Lock and how its good.

And I will post this video in any armor lock argument because I'm sick of writing big paragraphs trying to explain it to people. Any gaffers are willing to help if they want.

Yes. good.

 

[Hydranockz]

Yeah, why are we hating on him? It's our fault for not doing the same!

Exactly!

Unrelated: When our avatars are next to each other it gets a bit creepy how similar the 'hand'ywork is Holy fuuuuck it's happening with MrBig too... All I see are moving hands!

 

[NullPointer]

Combo breaker!

Also, let me warmly welcome anybody from Bungie/343 to my lovely city for GDC. One of the bars in the neighborhood is a usual haunt so I'd be happy to buy the round if I run into any of you guys.

 

[Hydranockz]

Combo breaker!

Also, let me warmly welcome anybody from Bungie/343 to my lovely city for GDC. One of the bars in the neighborhood is a usual haunt so I'd be happy to buy the round if I run into any of you guys.

You're already there watching the doors aren't you?

 

[NullPointer]

You're already there watching the doors aren't you?

Not a fanboy, just a gamer who likes games and problem solving. And I know some people who are in the industry and a few that left it in disgust ;p

I've long since past that time period where I wanted to work in the industry. Too much burnout for not enough pay in my book.

But to stay on topic: Jetpacks rule. And there should be no difference bwteen Arena and Slayer - the two should be made one.

 

[Tawpgun]

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=57282414&viewreplies=true

I might pull some stuff I missed from this thread as well.