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[Hey You]

Haha, anyhow. Let's get back on topic. Armor Lock sucks. Discuss.

Damnit. We almost had one page without Armor Lock being mentioned.

 

[Tawpgun]

Halo 3 improved upon almost every feature in Halo 2. Cry more dude, but it's true.

Loving the rose-tinted love given to glitches and exploits. Urgh.

Halo 3 was good... but it was missing that special something.... from a sandbox, balance and purely gameplay perspective it was better than H2. Barely. I still prefered hitscan and the faster gameplay.

No one can articulate what it was. Only thing that comes close is that Cursed Lemon video.

 

[Thermite]

Halo 3 improved upon almost every feature in Halo 2. Cry more dude, but it's true.

Loving the rose-tinted love given to glitches and exploits. Urgh.

If by almost every feature you mean Campaign missions, you're correct. Glitches and exploits aside, Halo 2 was head and shoulders above everything Halo 3 offered as far as the multiplayer experience goes. Hit scan BR > spread BR. Midship, Sanctuary, Colossus, Pinnacle, Headlong, Waterworks, Turf, Relic, Terminal and Ivory Tower > Vallhalla, The Pit, Citadel, Construct, and Avalanche (no other original Halo 3 map is worth mentioning, IMO). Not to mention Halo 2 had a far better ranking system that actually allowed you move up or down no matter how many matches you played, whereas with Halo 3, it became virtually impossible to move up a rank after a certain set of matches thanks to trueskill.

And before anyone says it, yes, I know, opinions and all that.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Have any reviews/previews come out for the new maps? Also how often do you do community customs? I may get on tonight to play.

and I finally got my h1 avatar.

<3 Downrush

 

[The Librarian]

One of the dudes in the 343 podcast says Highlands is a mixture of Valhalla and Timberland. I haven't played Timberland at all, but from what's described here, the comparison has got me even more excited.

 

[lybertyboy]

One of the dudes in the 343 podcast says Highlands is a mixture of Valhalla and Timberland. I haven't played Timberland at all, but from what's described here, the comparison has got me even more excited.

"I proudly stand by that quote."

- One of the dudes in the 343 podcast

 

[Barrow Roll]

Maybe with H2's framerate. My god H3 was the slowest garbage ever. Nothing could save that, it just wasn't as fluid as H2. Made for a crap experience. Only kids who liked H3 were bad kids who sucked at H2. Whenever I see someone with H3 name background I'm like Easy Win!

&#3232;_&#3232;

I dunno, it's been a while since I've played H3 multiplayer but I just played the first campaign level the other day and it was fine. It's been much longer since I've played H2 though, I didn't even own an original Xbox during it's peak. I always just played it at a friends house like nearly everyday. Hard for me to comment on the framerate there as well.

 

[CyReN]

You're welcome for the avatar; we do customs every Saturday at 3pm and 8pm EST.

Thanks again for the avatar, I should be on if you guys want to play. I'll play w/e you guys are down to play.

<3 Downrush

Ha, glad someone noticed.

---
With the Halo 2 discussion. Did anyone else play through waiting for the E3 2003' demo to happen or something along the similar lines of it? After the gravemind cut scene and the game going back to the main menu I felt like crap. ODST was ok but I really wish they had a level like that in it.

 

[The Librarian]

"I proudly stand by that quote."

- One of the dudes in the 343 podcast

lol. It's hard for me to distinguish voices without having seen them speak in an interview or something beforehand. The only voice I can confidently pin down is Frankie's.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

I disagree, and it's not because of glitches. From a gameplay standpoint, I feel that H2 is superior in almost every way.

Glitches aside they were both excellent games but when examined with a fine tooth comb one can argue that Halo 2, as far as overall gameplay mechanics, was much more flawed than Halo 3 was.

Halo 2:

- Excessive amounts of auto aim which made sniping incredibly easy
- Ridiculous melee lunge
- Inconsistent shotgun
- Overpowered sword

Halo 3:

- Inferior map design (still solid enough to support competitive play for several years)
- BR spread which IMO had a very minimal impact on LAN/competitive play
- Simplified melee mechanics

I can still recall the incredible amount of backlash that Halo 2 received, even post patch, to the point where forums were created to specifically trash every single aspect of the game from both a casual and competitive standpoint. So whether or not one was/is more enjoyable than the other obviously has a great deal to do with personal preference along with a bit of nostalgia thrown in as well. No doubt debates such as this will continue as long as the Halo franchise remains relevant.

 

[lybertyboy]

lol. It's hard for me to distinguish voices without having seen them speak in an interview or something beforehand. The only voice I can confidently pin down is Frankie's.

I'm the guy dropping in and out of his southern accent. Also, hit my quota for "obviously" and "like" in this episode.

 

[Sibylus]

Gearbox made some damn nice Halo maps, some of theirs are in my franchise favourites.

Timberland is definitely one. It's one of the best levels for Warthog driving, there's numerous slopes and jumps to be traversed, with flatter rivers and roads weaving through it all. Thinking about Halo CE without Timberlands is just... weird.

Lighting is the biggest problem. NPC navigation (for AI) would only be valid if we're talking about Forging Firefight maps, which would be cool but a different kettle of fish.

Can I suggest my idea of dynamically baking lightmaps on the fly?

http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=260554#p260554

Haha, anyhow. Let's get back on topic. Armor Lock sucks. Discuss.

Fooey to AL, this is an interesting turn of discussion.

So these lightmaps, generally how large are their filesizes? They kinda look like whole textures. I take it for it to be usable in something like Reach, you'd have to clone textures, so as not to overwrite the originals, and then bake the lighting onto them. Repeating this for every Forge2 (coined!) map might be problematic from a hard disk space perspective, non?

http://i.imgur.com/mekSZ.jpg

I'll take it if he won't :3

 

[Blue Ninja]

My 1st try, be kind:


(did not end well)
Click for big

Thanks, Blue

It's not bad, but there's not a lot happening in it. Some more pictures might help, but the most important part is getting something worthwhile in your screenshots.

Also, what's up with the Gueta's face?

 

[MrBig]

So these lightmaps, generally how large are their filesizes? They kinda look like whole textures. I take it for it to be usable in something like Reach, you'd have to clone textures, so as not to overwrite the originals, and then bake the lighting onto them. Repeating this for every Forge2 (coined!) map might be problematic from a hard disk space perspective, non?

Running radiosity is a very cpu intensive process, and there's no way Bungie would even consider doing a sub-par lighting scan, or even a simple radiosity, which can take a couple hours for just a few lights. It's not overlayed onto a texture file, the lightmaps are rendered and automatically UVed onto the map geometry. They can get pretty big, depending on quality.

 

[Karl2177]

With the Halo 2 discussion. Did anyone else play through waiting for the E3 2003' demo to happen or something along the similar lines of it? After the gravemind cut scene and the game going back to the main menu I felt like crap. ODST was ok but I really wish they had a level like that in it.

I still want to play that. ODST disappointed me with its "urban" combat. Then again, it would be hard to top Outskirts or Metropolis.

 

[Gui_PT]

I recommend taking more, zoomed in shots of the same area so that you can get in more detail. The compression and artifacting in reach screenshots is just terrible. Good for you first one though

It's not bad, but there's not a lot happening in it. Some more pictures might help, but the most important part is getting something worthwhile in your screenshots.
Also, what's up with the Gueta's face?

Thanks for the tips. I was really just trying it out =P

I don't know what's wrong with the face, everything else is fine.

Ok, sleep time for me. Keep sending PM's if you want to join us for that Falcon screenshot dealio.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Maybe with H2's framerate. My god H3 was the slowest garbage ever. Nothing could save that, it just wasn't as fluid as H2. Made for a crap experience. Only kids who liked H3 were bad kids who sucked at H2. Whenever I see someone with H3 name background I'm like Easy Win!

H2 is just so smooth and fluid. Everything about it feels that way. It's something that H3 and Reach just don't have and it makes a huge difference on how enjoyable the gameplay is.

 

[Striker]

Halo 3 was everything Halo 2 was supposed to be.]

Not quite.

- Inferior maps in EVERY single aspect

That means, for 1-sided objective games, Halo 2 outmatched Halo 3. For 2-side objective games, Halo 2 absolutely, positively pooped on Halo 3. Big Team games? Not even close, and don't be me any shit about Valhalla, Sandtrap, and Rat's Nest. They don't even compare to the likes of Coagulation, Headlong, Waterworks, Terminal, Relic, and Containment. Halo 3 had NO solid one-sided BTB map period.

Halo 3 had what, three semi decent symmetrical maps for 4v4? Halo 2 had five with ease that were head and shoulders above those

Narrows, The Pit, Standoff vs. Warlock, Sanctuary, Elongation, Beaver Creek, Colossus, Midship

- Lack of hitscan/BR

The Halo 3 BR was the worst "primary" weapon of any Halo game set out to date. Halo 1 Pistol, Halo 2 BR, and Reach's DMR outmatch it in every single way.

Won't even dwell into other things like vehicular combat with infantry, awful equipment implementation, and the legendary Spartan Laser acting like a Sniper Rifle.

 

[Falagard]

Fooey to AL, this is an interesting turn of discussion.

So these lightmaps, generally how large are their filesizes? They kinda look like whole textures. I take it for it to be usable in something like Reach, you'd have to clone textures, so as not to overwrite the originals, and then bake the lighting onto them. Repeating this for every Forge2 (coined!) map might be problematic from a hard disk space perspective, non?

No, you misunderstand. The lightmaps are generated on the fly as the map is loaded (just before you play the map in mapmaking) using render-to-texture to bake the lightmaps. You add a couple seconds to map loading, but don't have to store or send around lightmaps to players with the map data.

*edit*

Also keep in mind that if you're allowing full terrain editing, there's no reason to include initial lightmaps as they'll always be invalid as soon as the player moves something in Forge. So there won't be any overwriting as the initial lightmaps won't be there.

Technically this involves a process of generating flattened UV coordinates for the terrain geometry so the lightmaps could be applied to it. Tricks might be possible to allow this to be done quickly during map load as well.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Have any reviews/previews come out for the new maps? Also how often do you do community customs? I may get on tonight to play.

and I finally got my h1 avatar.

Why don't I recognize your avy?

Is that from a custom map? I never did end up trying any of those, they do look good though.

 

[wwm0nkey]

7000+ games in Halo 2 and 2100+ in Halo 3.

 

[CyReN]

Why don't I recognize your avy?

Is that from a custom map? I never did end up trying any of those, they do look good though.

Downrush

You know Bigsauce by chance with the Darkman avatar from G4 Arena? He lives in Michigan, met him at MLG Chicago 07', really nice guy.

 

[Sibylus]

Running radiosity is a very cpu intensive process, and there's no way Bungie would even consider doing a sub-par lighting scan, or even a simple radiosity, which can take a couple hours for just a few lights. It's not overlayed onto a texture file, the lightmaps are rendered and automatically UVed onto the map geometry. They can get pretty big, depending on quality.

Yeah, I know what you mean about it being CPU intensive and taking a while. I have to use Radiosity for mapping in Source, and it can certainly take its sweet time with large scenes. The Portal 2 revision of the engine seems to be embracing increased use of dynamic lighting, and that's definitely most welcome.

No, you misunderstand. The lightmaps are generated on the fly as the map is loaded (just before you play the map in mapmaking) using render-to-texture to bake the lightmaps. You add a couple seconds to map loading, but don't have to store or send around lightmaps to players with the map data.

Ah, so no hard drive footprint? That's pretty badass (I am envious!).

Apologies, I don't mess with these sorts of things outside of using them in Apps, so the workings beneath the surface are a bit magical/poorly understood by me. I make pitiful grasps every now and then at understanding, as you can see

 

[The Librarian]

So, wait, did Squidhands make Crown of Flies? If so, awesome work, man. Even though I routinely get owned on that map. (Proof.)

 

[Devin Olsen]

Downrush

You know Bigsauce by chance with the Darkman avatar from G4 Arena? He lives in Michigan, met him at MLG Chicago 07', really nice guy.

I remember him from the MLG Forums... It has been so long though I am trying to remember what exactly he did/who he was. But his name is certainly familiar.

Do you know Synide?

Edit: Why in the hell does the guy pick up the AR instead of a Pistol at 15 seconds in your video? lol

Edit Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nrczy4W9-Q&feature=related

This god damn game was SO SO good... I can't believe how much I miss playing it. It's incredible what a far cry Reach is from Halo 1.
I really hope the Halo 1 HD rumours are true.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I won't get too deep into the Halo 2/3 thing, since we've done that so many times, but one thing I think Halo 3 got exactly right was the vehicle sandbox, and how they balanced infantry against it. It's just so head and shoulders above Halo 2 (and Reach, for that matter). It's one of the main reasons I love that game so much. On any given map, I could either romp around with the 'Hog or the Chopper (<3), or go on a vehicle killing mission. So many tools to take them down with, but they were still formidable. It was such a huge step forward from Halo 2 (tracking rocket launcher says hi), and Reach such a step back from it.

 

[CyReN]

I remember him from the MLG Forums... It has been so long though I am trying to remember what exactly he did/who he was. But his name is certainly familiar.

Do you know Synide?

Edit: Why in the hell does the guy pick up the AR instead of a Pistol at 15 seconds in your video? lol

I've talked to him a few times and follow him on twitter now. I believe he works at Gamestaq now since leaving MLG. I always liked his Halo 1 videos he use to do.

I haven't had a chance to play the H1 maps yet, my friend said he was going to mod his box but didn't do it. I may try it out before the upcoming lan if I can find the stuff to do it.

 

[MrBig]

I won't get too deep into the Halo 2/3 thing, since we've done that so many times, but one thing I think Halo 3 got exactly right was the vehicle sandbox, and how they balanced infantry against it. It's just so head and shoulders above Halo 2 (and Reach, for that matter). It's one of the main reasons I love that game so much. On any given map, I could either romp around with the 'Hog or the Chopper (<3), or go on a vehicle killing mission. So many tools to take them down with, but they were still formidable. It was such a huge step forward from Halo 2 (tracking rocket launcher says hi), and Reach such a step back from it.

Sage.

 

[Falagard]

Running radiosity is a very cpu intensive process, and there's no way Bungie would even consider doing a sub-par lighting scan, or even a simple radiosity, which can take a couple hours for just a few lights. It's not overlayed onto a texture file, the lightmaps are rendered and automatically UVed onto the map geometry. They can get pretty big, depending on quality.

Radiosity calculations are now being done in near real-time using completely different techniques than what was previously used for baking old school lightmaps. For example, a technique based on "instant radiosity" is being used by Crysis 2 for their global illumination, which basically bounces light rays around and then places hundreds of point lights to emulate radiosity.

I've also spent some time investigating a different technique introduced by GPU Gems 2 and then followed up by Lionel Berenguier involving using render targets and depth peeling to emulate light bounces for radiosity. And in fact, I'm not saying that radiosity needs to be in realtime, it'll just be used for generating lightmaps quickly. If it takes one second, that'll simply be added to the map loading time as the lightmaps are baked into textures during load.

We're not talking about Bungie using this "sub par" technique for their own map creating. We're talking about it for Forge maps to make them look better, and keep in mind that for all current Forge maps there are no shadows cast by Forge placed items at all. This would at least look much better than no shadows at all.

 

[Hydranockz]

When the mongoose flips, it feels as though it is rotating around a point above the mongoose and the movement feels far from natural... Anyone else notice this?

 

[Striker]

 

[MrBig]

Radiosity calculations are now being done in near real-time using completely different techniques than what was previously used for baking old school lightmaps. For example, a technique based on "instant radiosity" is being used by Crysis 2 for their global illumination, which basically bounces light rays around and then places hundreds of point lights to emulate radiosity.

I've also spent some time investigating a different technique introduced by GPU Gems 2 and then followed up by Lionel Berenguier involving using render targets are depth peeling to emulate light bounces for radiosity.

Ugh, yep my knowledge about game engines is about 4 years out of date. Glad to know you can now get good results from low-pass renders.

e: Classic playlist moved to April

We're still doing internal testing, I'll be looking at community remakes of classic maps later this week. I'll keep updating this thread as things progress, but this playlist is still in the design/testing phase so you should not expect a March release. It might happen in late March but it's looking more like a headliner for the April update.

When the mongoose flips, it feels as though it is rotating around a point above the mongoose and the movement feels far from natural... Anyone else notice this?

I hardly ever use the mongoose, but as long as it's not too high it would still make physical sense as spartans weigh about as much as or more than ATVs.

 

[NOKYARD]

 

[The Librarian]

Nowhere near as bad as superjumping.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Nowhere near as awesome as superjumping.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Nowhere near as bad as superjumping.

Oh super jumping wasnt even that bad I could still destory anyone that super jumped on top of ascension. Also its not like it happen every single game, happen once every 30 or so games.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

I won't get too deep into the Halo 2/3 thing, since we've done that so many times, but one thing I think Halo 3 got exactly right was the vehicle sandbox, and how they balanced infantry against it. It's just so head and shoulders above Halo 2 (and Reach, for that matter). It's one of the main reasons I love that game so much. On any given map, I could either romp around with the 'Hog or the Chopper (<3), or go on a vehicle killing mission. So many tools to take them down with, but they were still formidable. It was such a huge step forward from Halo 2 (tracking rocket launcher says hi), and Reach such a step back from it.

Much <3 for the Chopper as well. Such a bad ass ride with some unique driving mechanics.

I do like some of the things done in Reach such as having the gunner on the hog overheat and I am a fan of the Revenant. The banshee on the other hand is a different story, I'm not particularly happy with how easy it is to get kills with these days.

 

[Blueblur1]

If by almost every feature you mean Campaign missions, you're correct. Glitches and exploits aside, Halo 2 was head and shoulders above everything Halo 3 offered as far as the multiplayer experience goes. Hit scan BR > spread BR. Midship, Sanctuary, Colossus, Pinnacle, Headlong, Waterworks, Turf, Relic, Terminal and Ivory Tower > Vallhalla, The Pit, Citadel, Construct, and Avalanche (no other original Halo 3 map is worth mentioning, IMO). Not to mention Halo 2 had a far better ranking system that actually allowed you move up or down no matter how many matches you played, whereas with Halo 3, it became virtually impossible to move up a rank after a certain set of matches thanks to trueskill.

And before anyone says it, yes, I know, opinions and all that.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2hdpob8.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, the Spartan Laser. I forgot about that thing.

 

[The Librarian]

Nowhere near as awesome as superjumping.

:lol

 

[CyReN]

Oh super jumping wasnt even that bad I could still destory anyone that super jumped on top of ascension. Also its not like it happen every single game, happen once every 30 or so games.

I rarely saw it happen too, even if they got up there we would just kill him or play the team 4v3 (or w/e variation it would be).

I did like doing it on Zanzibar in the cracked window (in customs).

 

[Lingitiz]

Are there still alot of gaffers playing Reach? Been thinking about jumping back in after taking about a month or so off. What seems to be the best playlists to go into right now?

 

[Tawpgun]

Nowhere near as bad as superjumping.

Man, you must have had some bad experiences in Halo 2...

 

[Slightly Live]

Are there still alot of gaffers playing Reach? Been thinking about jumping back in after taking about a month or so off. What seems to be the best playlists to go into right now?

Team Objective, Firefight Limited and Co-Op Campaign.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I rarely saw it happen too, even if they got up there we would just kill him or play the team 4v3 (or w/e variation it would be).

I did like doing it on Zanzibar in the cracked window (in customs).

Oh Zanzibar sniper super jumpers...good times :lol

 

[Bread]

Superjumping was one of my favorite things in Halo 2, along with sword flying. Custom games were the shit back then. The only glitch/exploit I didn't like in Halo 2 was BXR and all those. It completely changed the game, and allowed people who weren't good to succeed just because they could do it quickly.
I'm loving Reach right now, especially Arena because of the DMR. It's reminding me a lot of H2 pre-exploits.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Superjumping was one of my favorite things in Halo 2, along with sword flying. Custom games were the shit back then. The only glitch/exploit I didn't like in Halo 2 was BXR and all those. It completely changed the game, and allowed people who weren't good to succeed just because they could do it quickly.
I'm loving Reach right now, especially Arena because of the DMR. It's reminding me a lot of H2 pre-exploits.

I didn't really mind BxR that much to be honest. Yeah it sucked but its not like they could do it when I was far away or medium distance from them.

 

[Barrow Roll]

If by almost every feature you mean Campaign missions, you're correct. Glitches and exploits aside, Halo 2 was head and shoulders above everything Halo 3 offered as far as the multiplayer experience goes. Hit scan BR > spread BR. Midship, Sanctuary, Colossus, Pinnacle, Headlong, Waterworks, Turf, Relic, Terminal and Ivory Tower > Vallhalla, The Pit, Citadel, Construct, and Avalanche (no other original Halo 3 map is worth mentioning, IMO). Not to mention Halo 2 had a far better ranking system that actually allowed you move up or down no matter how many matches you played, whereas with Halo 3, it became virtually impossible to move up a rank after a certain set of matches thanks to trueskill.

And before anyone says it, yes, I know, opinions and all that.

Guardian is worth mentioning.

Fuck no on Construct though, that map sucks.

 

[MrBig]

Team Objective, Firefight Limited and Co-Op Campaign.

They trollin. They hatin.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

Oh super jumping wasnt even that bad I could still destory anyone that super jumped on top of ascension. Also its not like it happen every single game, happen once every 30 or so games.

At it's peak it was pretty bad from what I remember. Super jumpers on maps like Ascension, Turf, Headlong, Burial Mounds, Terminal and even Sanctuary and Lockout to some extent made for some pretty dreadful experiences especially if you were playing a ranked match with default settings. (SMG starts FTFUUUUU!!)

Between that ,along with the rampant cheating that took place due to either deranking or the collective obsession with having that number next to their gamertags, Halo 2 MM has made me appreciate how well Reach's MM works aside from some questionable decisions in regards to playlists (Multiteam) and gametypes. (I'm looking at you Team Objective)

edit: How could I forget Zanzy lol One of the most notorious maps for super jumping antics heh.

 

[wwm0nkey]

At it's peak it was pretty bad from what I remember. Super jumpers on maps like Ascension, Turf, Headlong, Burial Mounds, Terminal and even Sanctuary and Lockout to some extent made for some pretty dreadful experiences especially if you were playing a ranked match with default settings. (SMG starts FTFUUUUU!!)

Between that ,along with the rampant cheating that took place due to either deranking or the collective obsession with having that number next to their gamertags, Halo 2 MM has made me appreciate how well Reach's MM works aside from some questionable decisions in regards to playlists (Multiteam) and gametypes. (I'm looking at you Team Objective)

modding was always bad in Halo 2, there was a 50/50 chance of running into them after you hit level 35. Super jumping could at least be countered and easily countered.

Again though Halo 2 on XBLA could get rid of those problems though.