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Halo: Reach |OT3| This Thread is Not a Natural Formation

P

Photolysis

Banned
Nuborn said:
At this time i'd rather take dino slayer, every ctf game on highlands for me has been a boring stalemate, with the other team somehow becoming a group of rocky balboas in the last minute and capturing the flag.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't know. I've had one game of Highlands (Big Team Slayer), and all the others have been on Condemned.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Only thing I didn't like was when you said that they shouldn't focus on BTB. I want awesome BTB maps because BTB is my favorite playlist and imo captures what halo really is. But there do need to be more small, arena maps and less of these mid sized asymmetric maps.

One more thing to add to the list, exploration. Don't limit where players can go on campaign and customs. If there's walkable geometry, let us go there. No one cares about low res textures.
 
C

chess

Member
343 needs to hire Juices as a MP designer/Playlist Manager. I don't care what his resume looks like or if he's even in the industry at all!
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
7. I’ll say it again with the Veto system. One of the problems still is you don’t know whether people are voting for the map or for the gametype. Did they want Pinnacle or did they take it because it had DMR’s? You can’t tell because they were tied together! At the voting screen show two maps that they can pick with X and Y and then two gametypes with A and B. Let them choose the two options. You only have to be careful when having playlists that have maps and gametypes that don’t work together but it’s not a huge issue especially if you follow 8.
Click to expand...
I'll comment on more sections, but this one was the first that needed a response.

NO.

The absolute worst thing possible would be to vote for map and gametype separately. Let's look at this scenario, where A is how Reach does it and B is your idea.
A:
Team Slayer on Countdown - 4 votes WINNER
Team Snipers on Paradiso - 3 votes
Headhunter on Boardwalk - 1 vote

B:
Team Slayer - 3 votes
Team Snipers - 4 votes
Headhunter - 1 vote

Countdown - 5 votes
Paradiso - 3 votes
Boardwalk - 0 votes
WINNER: Team Snipers on Countdown.... whaaa?
 
L

LunaticPuma

dresses business casual
GhaleonEB said:
Pardon the tone here, but I'm annoyed: what's the point of making a new Firefight map if you're not going to bother making it available in matchmaking? I tried a few times this morning to get it in Score Attack, and didn't, because it's just tossed into the mix with the same weighting as Waterfront. And there's no playlist devoted to it, as with the MP DLC maps. Limited and Arcade will be even more of a crap shoot than Score Attack because of players who don't have them. Unearthed is a great map, but it's just ignored in the playlists. Why?
Click to expand...

This is the biggest problem with a 2MP/1FF map pack. Future map packs should be split into either MP or FF. I'd rather have 3 MP maps and 3 FF maps separate. That would make it easier to DLC playlists for both.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
LunaticPuma said:
This is the biggest problem with a 2MP/1FF map pack. Future map packs should be split into either MP or FF. I'd rather have 3 MP maps and 3 FF maps separate. That would make it easier to DLC playlists for both.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'd prefer that as well. It would also help people that ONLY want new Firefight maps or ONLY want Multiplayer.

Although really, the best thing would be one HUGE map pack. I'd rather pay $30 for 9 maps than $10 for 3 maps, 3 times. I know it's a harder sell, less impulse buys, but it would be so much better for the playlists if we didn't have the situation now of "Has Defiant but not Noble".
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
JonCha said:
Juices nailed it. I really liked the dual voting idea.
Click to expand...
Only if you can see the map and gametype at the same time and even then, it might lead to trouble. People will be divided on map and gametype. Half will want slayer on countdown. Others want DMRs on Highlands... And you end up with AR starts on highlands...
 
R

RebornYeti

Member
Happy Birthday Dax.

I always thought you were older.. at least around my age.

Since you're 19, you can now buy your very own cigarettes!

EDIT: I do realize I'm kinda late. :p

In other news, Unearthed needs to be in FF Matchmaking now. I'm kinda getting sick of playing it all by myself.
 
F

feel

Member
chess said:
343 needs to hire Juices as a MP designer/Playlist Manager. I don't care what his resume looks like or if he's even in the industry at all!
Click to expand...
Not any kind of very important lead position, shit would turn into "mlg the game" and screw those of us that like the middle ground, but certainly would be nice to have him in there in some kind of influential advisor role that allows him to speak his mind and stop the people in charge of mp from making really dumb franchise changing decisions left and right. Not that I don't believe in the mp leads at 343 before I even know who they are, just thinking of Reach's development.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Is it viable to just add "Match DLC" as a Matchmaking setting? That way instead of hoping that your matchmade players have the DLC you can have a much better chance of it?

Another real solution would once again be to keep multiplayer maps FREE, and sell other content as DLC. Things like new armor permutations, armor effects and extra campaign missions.
 
N

neclas

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Maps need to become free after 2 months. It should be a rule of all video games.
Click to expand...
If it was a rule (or even just expected) for maps to become free, very few people would pay for them. They might as well make them free in the first place (which sounds good to me!). I like the idea of making armor, etc. something to pay for. Although, it's my understanding that it's not so easy to add armor to Reach, with the way they store the assets for the maps.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Decom said:
If it was a rule (or even just expected) for maps to become free, very few people would pay for them. They might as well make them free in the first place (which sounds good to me!). I like the idea of making armor, etc. something to pay for. Although, it's my understanding that it's not so easy to add armor to Reach, with the way they store the assets for the maps.
Click to expand...
Look at Halo 2, they sold FIVE maps for what, $8? Its the price they sell them at too which matters, the cheaper the more people are willing to pay for the early.
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Im loving the maps, but it does feel a little sad only having two new ones to play on frequently. I dont mind firefight, but I havent got into it on Reach as much as ODST. That said, if there was an unearthed only playlist I would try that out.

Condemned is an interesting map. It is both bigger and smaller than you would expect. Right now it seems all the fights center around the gravity room, and other areas tend to be vacant. I wonder if that will change down the line.

Highlands is awesome, and huge. But once again, not as big as you would expect. It plays well and has a lot of interesting locations amongst it. That said, Defiant should have an 8v8 playlist and the 6v6 playlist should be a mix of defiant and noble. Many matches on highlands timeout before the kill cap is met.

Oh, the skyboxes on both maps are amazing. I hope future maps put something as dynamic in the foreground and main art of the map and not just the background. My eyes need some variety in map artwork.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
8. Get back to basics with the Objective playlists. These playlists are constantly unattended too, and as a result end up with a low player count. Problems like Bubble Shields being in the playlists sit for way too long. This playlist needs constant attention and minor balancing after seeing what issues can be abused or what gametypes lend them to uneven fairness. A level of attention near Starcraft 2 balancing is needed here. Is there a box that you can nade to knock it over the flag making a steal impossible even after they manage to successfully get the right kills and reach your base? That needs to be taken out in the NEXT update. Not 4 later! Are flag return times too long on certain maps and not long enough on others? That requires each gametype to mind each map. If they choose Sanctuary and Multi-Flag at the voting screen load up Sanctuary Multi-flag gametype not Multi-Flag gametype.

9. Part two of #8 nerf the appearance and usage of these new gametypes like Stockpile and Headhunter. These gametypes aren’t particularly bad really. I get that they were a highlight and a new thing to come out of Reach and now have Achievements tied to them. That doesn’t mean they need to be in the spotlight, not anymore. Get back to the basics and weight Multi-Flag much higher, put back Neutral Assault. These new gametypes (stockpile and headhunter) should be tertiary game types after secondaries like One Flag and Multi-bomb. Fix up 3 plots and put it back into rotation especially into BTB.

10. Stop tying credits to just playing the game. Tying credits to wins and performance will help everyone play properly. Idling in FF ruins so many of my matches that I could be playing with real people that are also going for real kills. Previous Halo’s never had idlers being such a problem.

11. Bring back weekend playlists even if you can’t do bonus credit weekends. I want to play 3ball for a few days and then I want to play Team Flag for the next 3 days. Be generous on that weekend too Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. That’s why it’s a 3 day weekend. Good playlist to test out gametypes, especially Instagib. Run out of ideas? Run the Armory pick a new weapon to use each week. Team Needlers. Team Rockets. Team Swords. Simple. Fresh gametypes every week. A godsend to the bored players. Weekly playlist updates not possible with Reach? Make sure it is in the next game. Its MP crack it brings the numbers. This way you don’t have to make dedicated playlists for every community favorite. Grifball, Living Dead, Rocket Race are flavors of the week not permanent places, no offense, hell I love the occasional Grif and Zombies.​

There's a lot to Juices' post, much I agree with, much I don't. But I think these points are spot-on. Four months after launch we have the bubble shield in Team Objective and Crazy King with a 30-second hill timer in BTB, and instead of addressing things like that we get objective SWAT games, Bro Slayer and Rocket Hog Race. The playlists have been getting better with each update, but it feels like the fundamentals are being neglected in favor of new game types.

Many of the playlists are still a bit of a mess. They could really use the kind of laser focus to refine and reshape that Juices describes.

Reach has a pretty good investment system, but the way it's balanced rewards idling, not playing. (See: the Firefight playlists.) I know Bungie can adjust these things, because they've done so to the Slot Machine, and to the Game Complete bonus to various hoppers (Firefight accrues at about 1/2 the rate of Multiplayer, and Score Attack at 1/4, and they've changed since launch).

I think a lot of the kind of game types being worked into matchmaking would be better served as weekend playlists. Rocket Hog Race is an example of that, and it's the reason I don't play Multi Team any longer. (Well, that and Elite Slayer.)

I wish someone would take a step back and re-evaluate the playlist configuration, and re-focus them.
 
S

squidhands

Member
NullPointer said:
Is it viable to just add "Match DLC" as a Matchmaking setting? That way instead of hoping that your matchmade players have the DLC you can have a much better chance of it?

Another real solution would once again be to keep multiplayer maps FREE, and sell other content as DLC. Things like new armor permutations, armor effects and extra campaign missions.
Click to expand...
This is a wonderful idea. I'd risk the longer waiting period if this was implemented somehow.
 
N

neclas

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Its the price they sell them at too which matters, the cheaper the more people are willing to pay for the early.
Click to expand...
That's true. $10 already seems like a lot for just 3 maps (especially when one is a FF map) and that's the price I was thinking of when you mentioned making them free after a period of time.

This actually reminds me that I read a while ago that when Steam has huge sales (50% off or more), they actually bring in more total revenue than during non-sale periods.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Decom said:
That's true. $10 already seems like a lot for just 3 maps (especially when one is a FF map) and that's the price I was thinking of when you mentioned making them free after a period of time.

This actually reminds me that I read a while ago that when Steam has huge sales (50% off or more), they actually bring in more total revenue than during non-sale periods.
Click to expand...
I just hope 343i listens and makes the first map pack free soon. Then I hope the next map pack will actually have more than 3 maps for a cheaper price.

Also yes Steam sales boost sales up by A LOT! I remember when they sold The Orange Box for only $5....sooooo many people bought the crap out of that.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
Okay, here's my pipe-dream DLC release plan. I tried to make it something Microsoft would actually consider:

Noble Map pack released - $10 for 3 maps
- Purchasing this also unlocks 7 unique Armory peices (or Avatar items, if we're sticking to reality)
- Purchasing this also grants a one-time bonus of 30000 cR
- In the party lobby, a one-star icon next to your gamertag and rank is now displayed, notifying other players that you have the first DLC pack

Defiant Map pack released - $10 for 3 maps (or 6 maps if you don't already have Noble)
- The maps from the Noble Map pack are included, but the Armory peices and cR are not.
- Purchasing this also unlocks 5 Armory peices unique to the Defiant pack
- Purchasing this also grants a one-time bonus of 20000 cR
- In the party lobby, a two-star icon next to your gamertag and rank is now displayed, notifying other players that you have the first two DLC packs

Third Map pack released - $10 for 3 maps (or 6 or 9 depending on what DLC you lack)
- Includes all of the maps from the Noble and Defiant packs, but not the Armory peices or cR.
- Purchasing this also unlocks 3 Armory peices unique to the Defiant pack
- Purchasing this also grants a one-time bonus of 10000 cR
- In the party lobby, a three-star icon next to your gamertag and rank is now displayed, notifying other players that you have the first three DLC packs

etc.

- The list of playlists will eventually show the star icons next to them, signifying what level of DLC is required to enter. Showing the stars in the Party Lobby also allows people to see who is missing DLC and shame them. The party gets a collective star-level, based on the lowest member in the group, and is only matched with other parties of the same level. An individual can also manually set his star-level at a lower value to reduce matchmaking time.
- Early adopters will end up paying $30 for the 9 maps, while late adopters get all 9 for only $10. This is balanced by including the Armory/cR bonus with each pack (early adopters get 15 Armory peices and 60000 cR while late adopters get only 3 Armory and 10000 cR). It also keeps late adopters from facing a $30 price to catch up that discourages them from getting any DLC at all.

NOTE: I'm really only talking about Multiplayer maps here. Keep Firefight maps in separate packs with a similar setup and their own star-level.
 
N

neclas

Member
ncsuDuncan said:
- Purchasing this also grants a one-time bonus of XX0000 cR
Click to expand...
I like this idea. Though, it's probably too late to implement (unless they make it weekly challenge to play on the new maps the week the pack is released -- but this would probably piss a lot of people off).
 
F

feel

Member
There should be a way to let other people from your list know you're waiting for any invite, by pressing a button and having some kind of icon pop up next to your gamertag on the in-game friends list.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Pardon the tone here, but I'm annoyed: what's the point of making a new Firefight map if you're not going to bother making it available in matchmaking? I tried a few times this morning to get it in Score Attack, and didn't, because it's just tossed into the mix with the same weighting as Waterfront. And there's no playlist devoted to it, as with the MP DLC maps. Limited and Arcade will be even more of a crap shoot than Score Attack because of players who don't have them. Unearthed is a great map, but it's just ignored in the playlists. Why?
Click to expand...
I really haven't been having too hard of a time finding it in Score Attack, but it could definitely appear more often.

To add to some comments on what Juices said. Equipment is a lot of fun. It deserves to be in MP.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
wwm0nkey said:
343 should just hire all of us to brain storm good Reach MP and DLC ideas.
Click to expand...
Why would they need to hire us when we're just posting them here for free? :p

In reality, I'm sure they have plenty of people being paid to think about this stuff. It looks random and inefficient from the outside but there are a lot of moving parts to this DLC business (and it is a business).

For all we know, the Bungie/343 people have considered the same exact ideas we're posting here, but they can't always tell us fans exactly why those ideas wouldn't work in the real world. I'm sure if they could, they'd release all of the maps for free (and still get paid for their work).

Still, it is nice to dream...
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
I think the solution is to "hire" HaloGAF. All contributers get exclusive ingame swag and early codes. Amirite?

No but seriously, what if they created a way for community members to request what they want changed. There would need to be some strict regulations as to who is allowed in. Perhaps 18+ And a fee would weed out the non halo fans and idiotic kids. They would try and get every demographic from the halo community represented, BTB, competitive, firefight, ect.

Forums can get cluttered and there are no standards (bnet) the stricter regulations here are a good start. I don't think any game developer has something like this, a way for the community to REALLY contribute to making the game.
 
F

Flipyap

Member
Dax01 said:
To add to some comments on what Juices said. Equipment is a lot of fun. It deserves to be in MP.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I really miss equipment (and powerups). In addition to being a better system in general, they just don't make protective bubbles like they used to...
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
So this is a wild, wild guess... But from everything I have seen so far it is perhaps the most logical answer.

The helmet that is shown off in that picture is 343i's new Exclusive Helmet.

I thought I had it figured out on how they would add it to the game afterwards, but once I started to type out my idea I realized I was very wrong...
 
Genesis Knight

Genesis Knight

Member
Devin Olsen said:
So this is a wild, wild guess... But from everything I have seen so far it is perhaps the most logical answer.

The helmet that is shown off in that picture is 343i's new Exclusive Helmet.

I thought I had it figured out on how they would add it to the game afterwards, but once I started to type out my idea I realized I was very wrong...
Click to expand...

343i's version of Bungie's Haunted? Haunted was found in the Reach files - I thought that modders/hackers had run through the Defiant pack already.
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
Genesis Knight said:
343i's version of Bungie's Haunted? Haunted was found in the Reach files - I thought that modders/hackers had run through the Defiant pack already.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I knew that... I thought perhaps 343 folks could swap the files for the haunted helmet with their helmet... in my mind sounded like a perfectly reasonable answer... But the more I thought about it the less likely it seemed.

I still think it is their helmet though.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
Genesis Knight said:
343i's version of Bungie's Haunted? Haunted was found in the Reach files - I thought that modders/hackers had run through the Defiant pack already.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just an internal exclusive helmet? As in we won't ever see it online, it's just a helmet 343 made on their dev kits as they were experimenting with the Reach engine.

It's almost like a subtle nod in the press shots: "Hey, we have the Reach engine now and can add our own helmets to it." Not intended for distribution to the public, but a hint that they have the capability to do new things with the engine.
 
Genesis Knight

Genesis Knight

Member
ncsuDuncan said:
Maybe it's just an internal exclusive helmet? As in we won't ever see it online, it's just a helmet 343 made on their dev kits as they were experimenting with the Reach engine.

It's almost like a subtle nod in the press shots: "Hey, we have the Reach engine now and can add our own helmets to it." Not intended for distribution to the public, but a hint that they have the capability to do new things with the engine.
Click to expand...

Seems like a waste of time and money to produce a polished asset like that which no one will ever see.

On the subject of armor: does anyone here run the Gungir helmet? I'm trying to decide if I want that or if I should stick with my Pilot helmet when I get to Brigadier.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Perhaps the helmet is a variant that got cut out of the final game.

Highlands needs falcons, or more vehicles. Maybe a banshee I don't know but it has an empty helipad and the map is really big.
 
B

bangai-o

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
Fix Reach (Or the Next Halo!)
stuff and,

As for the future please take a refresher on my first article: Things the next big Halo needs a lot of them still haven’t been added or fixed and are still quite valid. Some may have been repeated in this article though. Article here: http://madefromawesome.blogspot.com/2010/02/list-of-things-next-big-halo-needs.html
Click to expand...

i actually disagree with much that had been said. The design of Halo i like is that it can be a great arena shooter, a great objective game, and a great game to goof around in with a few odd and funny action sequences. But it seems the hardcore fans that complain, only ever want 4v4 arena style maps with everybody equipping the same gun.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Is the Revenant in the Highlands Forge palette? There's a well documented physics glitch with it (and the Ghost to a lesser degree, which hurled me off Breakpoint yesterday), and Bungie excluded it entirely from the Noble map pack. I'm curious whether 343i/CA did the same, but I forgot to check yesterday.
 
B

Blue Ninja

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Is the Revenant in the Highlands Forge palette? There's a well documented physics glitch with it (and the Ghost to a lesser degree, which hurled me off Breakpoint yesterday), and Bungie excluded it entirely from the Noble map pack. I'm curious whether 343i/CA did the same, but I forgot to check yesterday.
Click to expand...
It is. If you load up the map in Forge, and stand on the Blue side of the map, you can see pieces of geometry from the Red side actually disappear. :lol
 
N

neclas

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Considering the files of the map pack got updated maybe the helmet is in there?
Click to expand...
People in-the-know said the updated pack didn't contain any new stuff, just redundant files. Even if it did have new stuff, it wouldn't be able to add that stuff to pre-existing maps (so I've been lead to believe).
 
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