xxjuicesxx
Member
Nutter said:
Whistles nonchalantly.
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Halo: Reach |OT3| This Thread is Not a Natural Formation
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Whistles nonchalantly.
Well, of course. Coagulation and Blood Gulch were defined by vehicle combat.molekiller said:
Highlands is more of a hybrid. If there's another BTB map later, please make it one sided similar to Terminal or Headlong please. There's already three BTB maps that are symmetrical. And I haven't seen a DLC release or Bungie map that's been an asymmetrical BTB map since the map pack that released Terminal and Relic back in 2005.
Holy shit. That was literally one of the coolest clips I've ever seen. Blame Stosh material EASILY.equil said:
Here is my funniest clip from highlands. spoiler: there's a killtac /spoiler
Not rendered though.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=15201530&player=Tawpgun
The Librarian
Banned
Nice moves. I wish I could render my clip of some clips I had from customs last Thursday, but alas...equil said:
Photolysis
Banned
I think George's response is the worst.
When you consider the context - Reach, humanity's last stronghold, George's homeworld - "Here we go" spoken in a nonchalant tone makes no sense. It's completely incongruous. He should be saying the Spartan equivalent of "Holy fucking shit there's some motherfucking Covenant on Reach"
Despite the improvements they made along the way when developing Reach, I think this is something Bungie have always struggled with. They can make a great fictional universe, and they can create a game that's fantastic fun to play. But drawing players into emotionally investing in characters via the setting and dialogue is not one of their strengths.
Part of what made H1 work I think is the whole mystery behind the titular ring. Crazy dialogue aside (really Cortana, I couldn't possibly realise that blatantly unnatural cave is not actually a natural formation), the characters generally acted in a reasonably realistic way. Apart from the occasional bits of info from Cortana and exposition!Keyes, the characters are in the dark as much as the player. It's easier to connect with them because of this.
Photolysis said:
That line was terrible, but he made up for it when he said "Contacts? It's the damn covenant." That's a proper response. But then Emile kills it by saying something along the lines of, "CHEER UP BIG MAN, THIS VALLEY GOT A WHOLE LOT MORE FUN."
Some good moments were the security guards in Nightfall. That gave a nice human element. At least TRYING for a human evacuation mission (even though the execution was meh)
They definitely could have put Halo on a more serious tone, but they never had before. Why start now? Honestly, in that department they could have taken cues from Gears of War. The desperation of humanity is about the same in both of those, but Gears really drives it home.
There was some of this in Exodus, but it wasn't really overt. The problem is that when you drawn attention to stuff like this it's extremely hard to make it not be blunt, and while we might all care about it the general Halo player doesn't. It interferes with the 'five seconds of fun' that Halo is known for and at worst can dramatically alter people's perception of the game, which is the absolute worst thing you can do when you want someone to play your game. There's something to be said for managing that expectation to tell the story you want to, but when you're making a game like Reach, you have a whole history of what people know a Halo game to be that you can't contradict without being fantastically careful.A27 Tawpgun said:
As fans, we know so much more about Halo than the average person. To them, Halo is a colourful shooter with intelligent enemies and useful weapon variety that works great in co-op. It doesn't seem too serious, and if you force it on people it can really hurt the perception of the game.
The Librarian
Banned
I liked Reach's story for the most part. Overall it was presented and executed very well, and the dialogue was much improved over Halo 3 and ODST.
https://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=526345650&player=Tawpgun
Once again, I chose too small of a backpack to bring to this game. I take full responsibility for my actions.
Once again, I chose too small of a backpack to bring to this game. I take full responsibility for my actions.
Genesis Knight
Member
Played the new maps last night finally (midterms, gargle).
With Condemned, I was surprised at how some/most gametypes end up taking place entirely in the low gravity area. Stuff like oddball and hot potato break out a bit more, but Slayer almost entirely revolves around rushing/holding the low grav core. Seems like a really fun map for free for all.
Highlands really, really reminded me of the exclusive maps in the PC version of Halo 1 - big and sprawling, with lots of alternate routes. Fewer vehicles than I expected but that's OK. I really like this one - since I got started with Halo PC it feels sort of like coming home after so much 4x4 and really straightforward BTB maps like Valhalla and Coagulation. I hope Halo CE XBLA has Death Island!
Also I got the Oddball and CTF achievements! Dunno about Stockpile; I really suck at that mode.
With Condemned, I was surprised at how some/most gametypes end up taking place entirely in the low gravity area. Stuff like oddball and hot potato break out a bit more, but Slayer almost entirely revolves around rushing/holding the low grav core. Seems like a really fun map for free for all.
Highlands really, really reminded me of the exclusive maps in the PC version of Halo 1 - big and sprawling, with lots of alternate routes. Fewer vehicles than I expected but that's OK. I really like this one - since I got started with Halo PC it feels sort of like coming home after so much 4x4 and really straightforward BTB maps like Valhalla and Coagulation. I hope Halo CE XBLA has Death Island!
Also I got the Oddball and CTF achievements! Dunno about Stockpile; I really suck at that mode.
The Librarian
Banned
For anyone who has a lot of render minutes lying around, I found this awesome game of Valhalla (one of GAF's last). I watched it recently, and I remember why I saved it it was an awesome game.
Click here for the game.
Click here for the game.
squidhands
Member
Rendering, since I was in that game. ;-)Dax01 said:
They're both bad, but I never liked Carter's voice acting. Very stiff, over-enunciated, and I got the impression that the actor couldn't care less about the material.A27 Tawpgun said:
A27_StarWolf
Banned
Willeth said:
Halo: ODST had such a beautiful campaign, it actually had amazing voice work and a nice story.
I would like to see an ODST 2, perhaps on its own engine, following the same squad during the events of Halo 3.
You know what Noble team is missing?
The cast of Firefly.
ncsuDuncan
Member
urk said:
Tell them to replace the rocket launchers with Brute Shots, the snipers with Beam Rifles, and everything else with Spikers.
Oh, and replace the Rocket Hog on Unearthed with a Chopper.
squidhands
Member
Oh man, that would have been incredible.A27_StarWolf said:
Mal = Carter
Wash = George
Jayne = Emile
Zoe = Kat
Book = Jun
*straightens nerd glasses*
ncsuDuncan
Member
squidhands said:
River = Auntie Dot
Simon = Marine #7
Inara = Civilian #3
...okay, now I'm just reaching.
xxjuicesxx
Member
urk said:
Who the fuck is and Co btw?
Whats his support system like? Feels like anything is too little too late over there... maybe I can get in on that shit I know my way around Halo and I'm pretty passionate about it. Seriously, please.
A27_StarWolf
Banned
ncsuDuncan said:
REACHING
The Librarian
Banned
Sweet! How long until it's done? I wanna download it to my computer ASAP.squidhands said:
A27_StarWolf
Banned
A27 Tawpgun said:
I would say Jun was right here with him
squidhands
Member
Dax01 said:
It was supposed to be finished about an hour ago, so I have no idea.
True enough, but I stand by my previous post. Agree to disagree.A27 Tawpgun said:
Hitmonchan107
Member
squidhands said:
Compare his tone of voice from the beginning of the game to his conversation with Kat at the beginning of Long Night of Solace.
There's anger there -- the boiling, self-loathing kind. A commander who's used to seeing victory watches helplessly as his enemy reigns victorious.
It's a position I do not envy.
Carter went from being my least favorite character to being the one whose death affected me the most. As the campaign trudged on, he saw how hopeless the situation was, but he had to keep his team focused on the here and now.
I disagree, mostly. I think Reach has some of the best moment to moment exchanges, and does a good job of building the lead characters and establishing their relationships. The best character building since Halo 2. And it's strongly acted across the board, I thought everyone did a great job.Dax01 said:
My problem is that so little of what happens makes sense. So many exchanges and sequences leave me thinking, "What....?" The overarching theme is Bungie's writers put dramatic flourishes ahead of logic.
Random examples.
In the first level, Carter says we are free to engage, but "be selective - we don't want to telegraph our presence." This is right after we've buzzed the entire area at low altitude in Falcons. And better, right after he says it we come around a corner and find Jorge has landed his Falcon right in front of the houses, while we landed a ways away on the bluff. Talk about telegraphing our presence.
The way the Covenant are introduced to Reach is anohter, and has been talked about. It's a devastating moment: they've found our military stronghold and naval shipyard, home to the Spartan program. They're on Earth's doorstep, and millions will die on Reach alone. The response? "This whole valley just turned into a free-fire zone." If there's a more flippant way they could have sucked the drama out of such a key moment, I don't know what it is.
Tip of the Spear's opening cinematic showed me why Reach fell so hard. There's a line of Scorpions advancing on a swarm of Covenant vehicles. The Covenant vehicles are so, so toast. Tank beats everything, right? That was the main lesson of Halo 3. And then the Warthogs and Mongoose (!!!!) speed out ahead of the tanks, and the Scorpions are never seen again. The Warthogs, though, get shredded in dramatic fashion by the Banshees. If they'd hung back, the Scorpions would have had a good old turkey shoot and that would have been the end of it. The shots showing all the vehicles piled up was an excuse to show vehicles piled up - but they're deployed nonsensically to create a hectic battle scene.
Later in the level, when approaching the spire, Auntie Dot announces that the bubble around it is an EMP. Jorge tells the pilot to fly in anyways, and then we crash and the pilot is killed. Shouldn't we have, you know, come up with a plan B after learning the bubble was an EMP? Like flying a little lower, or perhaps landing and approaching on foot to ensure safety? That might even have not telegraphed our presence as loudly. The EMP was an excuse for a loud and dramatic crash scene, but it's a nonsensical one.
Stuff like that happens end to end, on every mission of the game.
And then there's Carter's key conversation with Halsey. Out of the blue she cryptically says she's found 1) an artifact from an ancient civilization 2) that has critical information that 3) might turn the tide of the war and 4) she's given it to this AI and we need to transport it to safety. Um, what? Could you expand on that? That's a lot to take in, and this seems like the climactic reveal of the game, and it was a little vague to put it lightly.
Carter's response: "I understand."
First time through I shouted at the screen something like, "I DON'T UNDERSTAND. KEEP TALKING LADY!" But nope, that's it, that's all we get. She found "something" that's "latchkey" in nature, it's hugely important, transport it.
Is Carter a Spartan or a puppet? If he was true to his character he would have wanted to know what he was transporting. And so do I! We can make assumptions but it continues Bungie's tendency to tell key parts of their story through implication rather than clear narrative. And it made everyone's sacrifice feel empty - I had (have) no idea why that mission was so important, and it undercuts the last level and the entire purpose of the game.
Solid-playing campaign that I enjoy a great deal, but the story is largely nonsensical and flippantly told.
A27_StarWolf
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
ODST had the best character building lol, you should know this, you love firefight.
The Librarian
Banned
I do have a couple of main gripes with Reach's story (aside from the plot holes and inconsistencies with the book).
1. The UNSC apparently only has one class of warship aside from the Pillar of Autumn.
2. We don't see any massive space battles between the Covenant and UNSC forces...not even in cutscenes.
1. The UNSC apparently only has one class of warship aside from the Pillar of Autumn.
2. We don't see any massive space battles between the Covenant and UNSC forces...not even in cutscenes.
I like ODST's story a lot. Great ensemble work, and it tells a good story in an interesting way. Though, I think Bungie's best world and character building was in Halo 2 with the Arbiter's story and character arc, his relationship with the Prophets, etc. But I can see why someone would pick ODST over it, it's just my favorite.A27_StarWolf said:
It's all about the ass-grab. It spoke to me.ncsuDuncan said:
ncsuDuncan
Member
I think the Legendary ending for Halo:CE had the best character development.
"This is it, baby... hold me."
"This is it, baby... hold me."
That's what I've been telling him. Halo has never had strong character development, but out of all of them, the Arbiter has shown the most change and was the most interesting character of the series.GhaleonEB said:
That and the massive amounts of expanding the story. Exploration too. Halo 2 is my favorite halo campaign.
squidhands
Member
To me, it's still the same, uninterested voicing that kills it for me. What it really reminds me of, now that I think about it, is an actor that was given a sheet of lines right before he goes into the booth. No prep, no character backstory, nothing. How well could any of us do in that situation?Hitmonchan107 said:
Well said. I love playing the Reach campaign, but the plot falls way short upon multiple playthroughs. Don't even get me started on Kat's ridiculously written death. It should have conveyed a crushing blow to Noble Team, and my initial response was, "you've got to be fucking kidding me."GhaleonEB said:
Thankfully, the ending of Lone Wolf made up for a lot of the other stumbles in the plotline. Probably the best ending to a game I've ever played; going out like a BOSS.
The Librarian
Banned
I wanted to comment on this specifically. This is actually one of my favorite conversations of the entire game. I think the reason why you didn't enjoy it and I did is because I got something else out of the conversation (after some research, I knew what was being transported, etc, so I was looking past that parts of it). I explained why I enjoyed the cutscene so much in OT2, so I'll just link to my comments. I re-read them and I still stick by them: here and here. I liked it because it was in that conversation I realized why Halsey hates what these "other Spartans" are, and not necessarily the Spartans themselves.GhaleonEB said:
Yeah. I love the ending. Lone Wolf is so good.squidhands said:
When I started the campaign and saw the scene confronting the civilians I felt this could be interesting if the story carries on in this direction. It didn't, the story failed to captivate me and eventually I was just playing for the enemy encounters and varied locations.GhaleonEB said:
As much as I feel Bungie has refined the nuanced arena style combat over the years I feel they severely lack in the storytelling aspect. It's a shame they aren't looking for new story talent to match their gameplay expertise.
They need to learn from the story innovations found in Bioshock or Half Life, I understand the need for cutscenes in Halo but they could have added some ingame first person scenes that told you the story while playing.
ncsuDuncan
Member
Both Halo 3 and Reach ended with the same emotional reaction from me.
Final cinematic plays, credits start to roll.
"WHAT. How could they just end it like that? DAMMIT BUNGLE."
Post-credits scene begins.
"OH THANK GOD. This is awesome. Best ending ever!"
Final cinematic plays, credits start to roll.
"WHAT. How could they just end it like that? DAMMIT BUNGLE."
Post-credits scene begins.
"OH THANK GOD. This is awesome. Best ending ever!"
So true about Lone Wolf. It's one of the best pieces of interactive story telling I've encountered. And the framing of Reach around the shattered helmet - my shattered helmet - and the way it starts to crack as you take fire, is incredibly effective. There's a sense of desperation as the inevitable settles in. It's an aspect of the story Bungie hit out of the park.squidhands said:
But they continue to really struggle with the impulse to create drama in ways that doesn't fit into the scene or even make sense in context ("To war!").
Actually, you do see Brutes killing civilians directly, and just like in Halo 3, it looks like they're playing with dolls.A27 Tawpgun said:
I thought Jorge's response was ridiculous and childish. Though I guess that's fitting, because all of the Spartans in Reach seem a bit mentally challenged.A27 Tawpgun said:
And black Nolan North. The casting in that game is so ridiculous, I love it.A27_StarWolf said:
A27_StarWolf
Banned
Flipyap said:
You know what Reach needed? More scenes like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36nD_O5ViCA
Hypertrooper
Member
Nope. The game needed more true spartan deaths like Emile or Noble6. Carter, Kat and Jorge died really unworthy.A27_StarWolf said:
cool_dude_2049
Banned
A27_StarWolf said:
Holy shit, I need to finish Halo Wars