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[Slightly Live]

So you would argue then that pressing a single button to jump takes an equal amount of skill to throwing a well placed grenade?

That to me is not an equal balancing mechanic.

Hopefully that makes sense, it does in my head but I'm not very good at conveying my thoughts in writing.

A single button to jump? Just like pressing a single button to throw a grenade?

Obviously you are flavouring one side with bias in your crude example.

Jumping away from a grenade in Halo 3 was never a sure fire way of avoiding the intended result. You had to time the grenade, judge the distance proximate to yourself. The are other things to take into consideration such as the enviroment - where to jump to and whether or not you are currently in motion. Then there were random variables such as the grenade's bounce and whether or not it would explode when you expected it to.

Throw some common host and connection related lag into the equation and escaping grenades by jumping was never as simple as, say, activating Armour Lock and avoiding all damage.

Most of the time jumping negated some, if any, of the damage and good players expected others to jump and threw grenades with that expectation in mind.

I agree that jumping is not a direct counter balance to grenades but it's an effect limiter and one that took skill, timing, precision and often times luck to use to it's fullest potential.

In Reach, this has been stripped away. When a grenades comes at you, only Armour Lock can guarantee a player any safety.

 

[FyreWulff]

Welp, looks like I'm done playing Team Objective.

 

[Hey You]

Welp, looks like I'm done playing Team Objective.

Why's that?

 

[darthbob]

Welp, looks like I'm done playing Team Objective.

Is it because of the 'deemer?

 

[TrounceX]

A single button to jump? Just like pressing a single button to throw a grenade?

Obviously you are flavouring one side with bias in your crude example.

Jumping away from a grenade in Halo 3 was never a sure fire way of avoiding the intended result. You had to time the grenade, judge the distance proximate to yourself. The are other things to take into consideration such as the enviroment - where to jump to and whether or not you are currently in motion. Then there were random variables such as the grenade's bounce and whether or not it would explode when you expected it to.

Throw some common host and connection related lag into the equation and escaping grenades by jumping was never as simple as, say, activating Armour Lock and avoiding all damage.

Most of the time jumping negated some, if any, of the damage and good players expected others to jump and threw grenades with that expectation in mind.

I agree that jumping is not a direct counter balance to grenades but it's an effect limiter and one that took skill, timing, precision and often times luck to use to it's fullest potential.

In Reach, this has been stripped away. When a grenades comes at you, only Armour Lock can guarantee a player any safety.

I don't like the part that's bolded.

Also I just edited my previous post so read that first. And I don't think my example was very crude. You try and make the case that jumping away from grenades takes skill where I feel that it doesn't. The variables involved in throwing a good grenade far exceed that of avoiding them. Like I said, It's a tricky thing to balance and much of it will come down to personal preference in the end, I believe.

And it's actually pretty easy to avoid grenades in Reach. You just need to know the map well and how people play on it.

K, now I'm really done.

one more edit:

Most of the time jumping negated some, if any, of the damage and good players expected others to jump and threw grenades with that expectation in mind.

A valid counterpoint and one that I expected. Well played.

 

[FyreWulff]

Post removed because Devin Olsen is being his usual smartass self.

Have fun playing Slayer in Team Objective.

 

[Tunavi]

^lol don't be such a baby

 

[Devin Olsen]

Welp, looks like I'm done playing Team Objective.

Please be because of the DMR.

 

[Karl2177]

I don't like the part that's bolded.

Also I just edited my previous post so read that first. And I don't think my example was very crude. You try and make the case that jumping away from grenades takes skill where I feel that it doesn't. The variables involved in throwing a good grenade far exceed that of avoiding them. Like I said, It's a tricky thing to balance and much of it will come down to personal preference in the end, I believe.

And it's actually pretty easy to avoid grenades in Reach. You just need to know the map well and how people play on it.

K, now I'm really done.

Still doesn't avoid the fact that their damage is obnoxious and the radius is too large for the base player speed.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Well guess we get the Halo Bulletin tomorrow.

 

[thezerofire]

wait, someone is really claiming that grenades are easy to avoid?

 

[senador]

Post removed because Devin Olsen is being his usual smartass self.

Have fun playing Slayer in Team Objective.

That seems kind of childish. Like, you didn't get your way so you are taking your ball and going home.

I get what you are saying but it goes both ways. I got frustrated by spawning with an away flag and having no chance of recovery due to having an AR. Now I can at least try to stop it at range. It still about teamwork as teams will have to work to hold off the other team, and they'll have a better chance to now since they will also have DMRs.

Edit: I see you edited your post, but I'll leave this anyhow.

 

[Tawpgun]

Welp, looks like I'm done playing Team Objective.

C'maaaaaaan DMR in objective games is the way to go!

Evade however....

Jeremiah, I'd still like to know, how come all fixes have to be clumped into one big update? What would it take RIGHT NOW to remove Evade from objective?

So you would argue then that pressing a single button to jump takes an equal amount of skill to throwing a well placed grenade?

That to me is not an equal balancing mechanic.

Hopefully that makes sense, it does in my head but I'm not very good at conveying my thoughts in writing.

edit: I just thought of like a million different ways you could counter this type of logic so I'm just going to stop posting. In the end, the dynamics of Halo that make it so engaging is the interplay of guns, grenades and melee. It's obviously going to be really hard to balance everything perfectly and no matter what not everybody is going to be happy with the system.

It is my opinion that having more powerful grenades leads to more viable options in any given encounter, more clutch kills, and therefore more exciting game play. If somebody is going to avoid my perfect grenade I'd like it to be for reasons more complex than mashing a single button.

And here is the fundamental disagreement. You think grenades should be super powerful, whereas me, and many others, think they SHOULD be able to kill, but their primary function should be stripping shields.

If you made a well placed grenade throw, and someone jumped over it, it wasn't a "perfect" grenade. Being able to jump and avoid obstacles gives the victim options to survive an encounter. Clutch plays can still come from BOTH sides, the grenadier and the target with H3's grenades. With Reach, clutch grenades usually refers to spamming and knowing that if you threw it in their general direction, some splash damage will get them...

 

[TrounceX]

wait, someone is really claiming that grenades are easy to avoid?

Yeah it's not really a problem for me. Use sprint and try to avoid areas where it is likely someone will be throwing a grenade. A good example would be to not sit in the inside back wall of gold room on sword base, the opposing outside corner of a vent in countdown, or the outside wall of a zealot street.

Those are pro tips btw I expect you to use them!

Also I just realized that having debates on a forum is nearly impossible.

 

[Tawpgun]

Yeah it's not really a problem for me. Use sprint and try to avoid areas where it is likely someone will be throwing a grenade. A good example would be to not sit in the inside back wall of gold room on sword base, the opposing outside corner of a vent in countdown, or the outside wall of a zealot street.

Those are pro tips btw I expect you to use them!

Also I just realized that having debates on a forum is nearly impossible.

This is still a debate. But internet debates usually start off with misunderstandings until the fundamental difference is uncovered.

You want your grenades to cripple your enemies if you throw them near them.

I want them to cripple my enemies if it's an accurate throw and they fail to get away from it. I also want options if I have fast reflexes, to be able to avoid grenades.

 

[senador]

Reach grenades are powerful yes, but I don't think that should change. What I'd like to see changed is the slow inertia reduced or removed (yay strafing) and a longer fuse. That way there is at least a hope of getting away.

I often avoid grenades by sprinting towards and passed them.

If you want grenades as a shield stripper they'll give you a nade system similar to the Reach melee system.

 

[HiredN00bs]

The thing that annoys me most about grenades is not their power, but their bounce. Banking grenades in Reach is a lot more difficult because they lose so much momentum. I'd be more inclined to condemn them for their power if I got more kills with them.

 

[TrounceX]

This is still a debate. But internet debates usually start off with misunderstandings until the fundamental difference is uncovered.

Yup, agree to disagree then?

Also just like to say I feel like i've had more meaningful conversation in the past 30 min than I have in the 5 years I've been a part of the MLG forums. Well played all around Tawpgun, well played.

 

[Ramirez]

Hey Mr Fungineer, sorry bout being mean the other day.... uuuh.... while you can, would you mind deleting AR+pistol starts from Halo 3 TS Ranked and making it Team BR all the time? It's Halo 3, noone cares about it anymore, what difference is it gonna make letting the dirty peasants who roams those parts have their BR starts..

Remember when the Halo 3 playlists were supposed to get trimmed down before Reach launched?

Spoiler

lol

Post removed because Devin Olsen is being his usual smartass self.

Have fun playing Slayer in Team Objective.

This makes no sense whatsoever, how does having an actual viable starting weapon to defend yourself from everything turn the game into TS?

Does the game still not start you with an AR secondary, or Pistol at least? Just hit the Y button if you're afraid the DMR will just make you want to play slayer all game.

What is this, I don't even...

 

[kylej]

Post removed because Devin Olsen is being his usual smartass self.

Have fun playing Slayer in Team Objective.

Will do! Anyone want to mercilessly crap on kids in Objective with me? Haven't played in a while.

gt jelyk

 

[FyreWulff]

That seems kind of childish. Like, you didn't get your way so you are taking your ball and going home.

What's childish about voting with participation and choosing to not participate in a playlist that I feel has lost it's way?

That's how you influence and tell Bungie or 343 you don't like what they did with a product. Instead of going on about how you don't like it but then continuing to play it anyway, you stop giving the product you don't like your "vote" by ceasing to play it.

Since we can't vote with our dollar or vote with a ballot box, this is as close as one can get. I'm not taking my ball and going home. I'm just not bringing my ball over to this side of the park anymore.

There are now no 100% Objective 4v4 playlists in Reach. The last 100% Objective playlist is now Premium Battle, if you consider Invasion an Objective gametype.

This makes no sense whatsoever, how does having an actual viable starting weapon to defend yourself from everything turn the game into TS?

It's gonna be fun watching TO have even less population than it did before. 2 Flag Slayer should be in Action Sack, not Team Objective.

 

[Risen]

Will do! Anyone want to mercilessly crap on kids in Objective with me? Haven't played in a while.

gt jelyk

im on now... GT Risen GBG

 

[Merguson]

Remember when the Halo 3 playlists were supposed to get trimmed down before Reach launched?

Spoiler

lol

They needed the resources to put more playlists than ever before in Halo: Reach.

 

[tigerin]

i really enjoy halo reach multiplayer, but there is one problem. people always quit in the first two miuntes of the game and leave the team off balance(team slayer.) and the thing is, no one else can join to replace them and i'm stuck playing 2 vs. 4 for the whole match. anyway to fix this or do i have to deal with it?

and one more question, everytimes i go into the multiplayer, it kept saying i missed some contents and offered me to the marketplace. i went there and saw a noble map pack, but it was not free. so what else am i missing?

 

[Havok]

i really enjoy halo reach multiplayer, but there is one problem. people always quit in the first two miuntes of the game and leave the team off balance(team slayer.) and the thing is, no one else can join to replace them and i'm stuck playing 2 vs. 4 for the whole match. anyway to fix this or do i have to deal with it?

That's just the way Halo matches are. Most of the hardcore players, myself included, like this because it contributes to the competitive atmosphere of the matches, and because join-in-progress systems lead to joining a match on the losing team with a minute to go in other games, which is a giant waste of time. Penalties are in place for people who chronically quit matches, but you'll get unlucky every so often.

and one more question, everytimes i go into the multiplayer, it kept saying i missed some contents and offered me to the marketplace. i went there and saw a noble map pack, but it was not free. so what else am i missing?

None of the Reach DLC is free, so you'll probably just have to put up with the message. It's a hamfisted notification solution for sure.

2 Flag Slayer should be in Action Sack, not Team Objective.

I agree with this (but I haven't played it to see how slayer-centric player behavior is yet).

 

[tigerin]

That's just the way Halo matches are. Most of the hardcore players, myself included, like this because it contributes to the competitive atmosphere of the matches, and because join-in-progress systems lead to joining a match on the losing team with a minute to go in other games, which is a giant waste of time.


None of the Reach DLC is free, so you'll probably just have to put up with the message. It's a hamfisted notification solution for sure.

damn, that sucks. i need my teammates to keep me alive since most people on there are good.

alright, guess i'll just keep saying no to the notification. what annoying about the list is the amount of avatars merchandises they offered which i had to scroll through and it's hard to notice anything important.

 

[Havok]

damn, that sucks. i need my teammates to keep me alive since most people on there are good.

The greatest advice I can give you is to find a group of like-minded people whose company you enjoy to play with. That's the Halo experience that can't be replicated with randoms, no matter how good they are.

 

[Louis Wu]

It's gonna be fun watching TO have even less population than it did before. 2 Flag Slayer should be in Action Sack, not Team Objective.

Wait... all of this is about 2 Flag Slayer being in TO?

I have never played a game of 2 Flag Slayer that WASN'T decided by flag caps. In fact - I don't think I've ever played a game where there was even a CHANCE that the number of kills would tip the balance (the losing team would need more than 50 kills more than the winning team for this to happen).

It just adds a little spice, is all. (At least that's how *I* see it...)

 

[Nutter]

Is it really because of the DMR?

Or the fact that a particular gametype in the playlist now, aka CTF Slayer.

DMR in Objective is move in the right direction.

Now next month 343 needs to lower the weighting on the community maps in Team Slayer and take out Evade and Armor Lock.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Post removed because Devin Olsen is being his usual smartass self.

Have fun playing Slayer in Team Objective.

Would you rather spawn with an AR on coagulation (or whatever it's called now) and watch them walk away with your flag?

I've honestly never understood the hate for the DMR. If I am understanding you folks correctly you don't like the fact that in a FPS game you can be shot at from 'anywhere' on the map. You would instead rather spawn with a classed up bullet hose?

I really hope Halo 4 has default weapons set to something with a DMR/halo 1 pistol range. I cannot wait to see what AR kids will say. Then again given the direction of halo up to this point we will likely be spawning with turret/flamethrower.

 

[Tawpgun]

What's childish about voting with participation and choosing to not participate in a playlist that I feel has lost it's way?

That's how you influence and tell Bungie or 343 you don't like what they did with a product. Instead of going on about how you don't like it but then continuing to play it anyway, you stop giving the product you don't like your "vote" by ceasing to play it.

Since we can't vote with our dollar or vote with a ballot box, this is as close as one can get. I'm not taking my ball and going home. I'm just not bringing my ball over to this side of the park anymore.

There are now no 100% Objective 4v4 playlists in Reach. The last 100% Objective playlist is now Premium Battle, if you consider Invasion an Objective gametype.

It's gonna be fun watching TO have even less population than it did before. 2 Flag Slayer should be in Action Sack, not Team Objective.

That's fine, and I understand.

But just because 2 flag slayer is in TO now doesn't mean the goddamn playlist is Slayer. I have yet to even see it come up in the options.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Wait... all of this is about 2 Flag Slayer being in TO?

I have never played a game of 2 Flag Slayer that WASN'T decided by flag caps. In fact - I don't think I've ever played a game where there was even a CHANCE that the number of kills would tip the balance (the losing team would need more than 50 kills more than the winning team for this to happen).

It just adds a little spice, is all. (At least that's how *I* see it...)

My sentiments EXACTLY.

 

[Tunavi]

Now next month 343 needs to lower the weighting on the community maps in Team Slayer and take out Evade and Armor Lock.

Next month 343 needs to make jetpack, hologram, and evade pick ups, sprint starts, then just get rid of the rest of the armor abilities. Loadouts suck

 

[Louis Wu]

What the...

I just went through THREE FULL SETS OF VOTING in Score Attack (quitting out at the end of each), and have not received a SINGLE Gruntpocalypse option. That's 81 game options... and not ONE of them were of Gruntpocalypse. (Are there a bunch of other gametypes that offer pistols and enemies with reasonable chances for headshots? I don't think there are.)

This is absurd.

 

[Havok]

What the...

I just went through THREE FULL SETS OF VOTING in Score Attack (quitting out at the end of each), and have not received a SINGLE Gruntpocalypse option. That's 81 game options... and not ONE of them were of Gruntpocalypse. (Are there a bunch of other gametypes that offer pistols and enemies with reasonable chances for headshots? I don't think there are.)

This is absurd.

2X Score attack/Score Attack, Rocket Attack, Sniper Attack are your best bets. With 2X you don't need to even go for headshots, it'll kill a brute in 3 shots. I'm assuming you're going for the challenges.

The Score Attack voting system needs to be revamped. Offer a list of gametypes in one round, then a list of maps. I only really like 3 or 4 Firefight maps, so when I see Glacier, Waterfront, and Overlook pop up time after time, it's very frustrating.

 

[FyreWulff]

Would you rather spawn with an AR on coagulation (or whatever it's called now) and watch them walk away with your flag.

Hemorrhage was removed from Team Objective a long time ago.

 

[Ramirez]

It's gonna be fun watching TO have even less population than it did before. 2 Flag Slayer should be in Action Sack, not Team Objective.

So because the playlist has a terrible slayer/objective variant in it, it means every game is going to turn into TS?

Granted, adding in a bunch of fluff gametypes makes ZERO sense when he just removed all of the garbage not too long ago, but it doesn't surprise me.

 

[Kuroyume]

Take the DMR out of there and make it Rockets and AR starts please.

 

[Tunavi]

Take the DMR out of there and make it Rockets and AR starts please.

Spoiler

FyreWulff would STILL use the AR

 

[Devin Olsen]

For what its worth:

When Shishka plays Halo 1 he holds down the trigger when using the pistol.

Red Team = Devin and Andrew (50 Kills)
Blue Team = Shishka and some Frag Doll (18 kills)

 

[Hey You]

So glad HaloGaf doesn't run the playlists.

It would be nice if Score Attack could set up something like this:

Head into Score attack and first pick the map you wish to play on (In alphabetical order):
-Start with Beachhead

-End with Waterfront

Then you could cycle through the gametypes (In alphabetical order):
-Start with 2X Score Attack then Crash Site


-End with Sniper Attack

 

[FyreWulff]

Spoiler

FyreWulff would STILL use the AR

Did you ever get that free Halo PC CD key that you wanted?

 

[Tawpgun]

Fyrewulff is free to have his opinion, but you have to realize... as far as HaloGAF is concerned. You're in the minority in a lot of your opinions.

 

[darthbob]

Did you ever get that free Halo PC CD key that you wanted?

:lol

 

[Steelyuhas]

Reach grenades are powerful yes, but I don't think that should change. What I'd like to see changed is the slow inertia reduced or removed (yay strafing) and a longer fuse. That way there is at least a hope of getting away.

I often avoid grenades by sprinting towards and passed them.

If you want grenades as a shield stripper they'll give you a nade system similar to the Reach melee system.

Agreed. I like powerful grenades, but you need to be able to get out of the way. (better movement options, longer fuse time)

For what its worth:

When Shishka plays Halo 1 he holds down the trigger when using the pistol.

Rookie mistake.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What the...

I just went through THREE FULL SETS OF VOTING in Score Attack (quitting out at the end of each), and have not received a SINGLE Gruntpocalypse option. That's 81 game options... and not ONE of them were of Gruntpocalypse. (Are there a bunch of other gametypes that offer pistols and enemies with reasonable chances for headshots? I don't think there are.)

This is absurd.

I use 2X Attack. You don't need headshots, and the pistol appears in several load outs. In 2X you can just mow dudes down thanks to the double damage.

It is also the secondary weapon in Crashsite for all load outs, and 2X damage in enabled. Though using the pistol in Crashsite is a good way to get your ass kicked.

 

[blamite]

lol Fyrewulff.

Meh at this playlist update. I understand that it's small because of the transition to 343, but I've been waiting a while for something to get me back into the game as much as I used to be.

343 gets control on August 2nd, right? I wonder if that'll be the date of their first update too. Hopefully it's pretty significant, they've had plenty of time to plan for it.

 

[Nutter]

So glad HaloGaf doesn't run the playlists.

I know right?

Who would want some actually good game types.

All Playlists need to have Armor Lock and Evade loadouts as the only ones available.
While you are at it, equip everyone with a Shotgun or Sword as a secondary and AR as primary.

 

[Striker]

Would you rather spawn with an AR on coagulation (or whatever it's called now) and watch them walk away with your flag?

I've honestly never understood the hate for the DMR. If I am understanding you folks correctly you don't like the fact that in a FPS game you can be shot at from 'anywhere' on the map. You would instead rather spawn with a classed up bullet hose?

That's the funny part about the weapon spawns. For Boardwalk and Tempest we were given DMR starts. But for Hemorrhage, which since has been removed because of complaints of teams getting wrecked by vehicles, they gave you a AR/Pistol. No DMR start. Makes sense, huh?

AR/Pistol start wasn't the issue on the playlist. The big issue as to why its population is low is because matches can end in 2 mins because there's so many bad players in there, and that will often net you about 600 cR. They can't credit you for team based flag caps, bomb plants, and so on. They had no intentions of crediting these types of players for whatever reason. If they could make for team based awards you could earn more cR with winning, but sadly that's not the case.

And the other issues that are larger than the weapon starts: Evade still being in there, no new maps were added (there's more gametypes than maps atm), and Pro gametypes are absolutely awful. The recent one is removing fringe gametypes, but now he's adding MORE back in. It's making me want to play it less as a result.

 

[Steelyuhas]

That's the funny part about the weapon spawns. For Boardwalk and Tempest we were given DMR starts. But for Hemorrhage, which since has been removed because of complaints of teams getting wrecked by vehicles, they gave you a AR/Pistol. No DMR start. Makes sense, huh?

AR/Pistol start wasn't the issue on the playlist. The big issue as to why its population is low is because matches can end in 2 mins because there's so many bad players in there, and that will often net you about 600 cR. They can't credit you for team based flag caps, bomb plants, and so on. They had no intentions of crediting these types of players for whatever reason. If they could make for team based awards you could earn more cR with winning, but sadly that's not the case.

And the other issues that are larger than the weapon starts: Evade still being in there, no new maps were added (there's more gametypes than maps atm), and Pro gametypes are absolutely awful. The recent one is removing fringe gametypes, but now he's adding MORE back in. It's making me want to play it less as a result.

By new maps you mean adding new forge maps right? Influx of forge maps is the reason I stopped playing Team Slayer lol.