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[TrounceX]

Honestly ideas like bloom are all the more a piss off when there are no dedicated servers to be had. Play a game with some lag, and you're fucked because your shots have already missed. How does that bridge skill gaps?




It's quite random at times. I'm starting to wonder if people don't engage in enough mid-range firefights with just DMRs going at it to notice.

Remove bloom and the skill gap is going to be even smaller than it is already. Really it is SO EASY to aim in Reach that every single random that picks up a controller is going to 5 shot you.

 

[Devolution]

Remove bloom and the skill gap is going to be even smaller than it is already. Really it is SO EASY to aim in Reach that every single random that picks up a controller is going to 5 shot you.

That's a problem with Reach then isn't it? Did you have this problem in h2/h3? Was there bloom? I rest my case.

 

[TimeLike]

I read the links in the OP but I wanted to consult you people about this. Am I correct in saying that out of the two DLC map packs available, there is only one Firefight map? I don't like the stress of matchmaking and five is a lot of bones for one map.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I read the links in the OP but I wanted to consult you people about this. Am I correct in saying that out of the two DLC map packs available, there is only one Firefight map? I don't like the stress of matchmaking and five is a lot of bones for one map.

That's right. 2 multiplayer maps and 1 firefight in that pack. Multiplayer people dislike having a firefight map in the pack, firefight people don't like having to buy a whole pack for one map. Pretty vexing.

 

[Plywood]

-.- yesterday people were gushing over it here. Yeah Anchor 9 is garbage. Breakpoint was fun on the games I played. Have yet to play Tempest.

Did I land in bizzaro-GAF?

 

[senador]

I usually have no problem with bloom. My real problem is guests!

I just played a round of Squad and had 2 guests on my team and 3 on theirs. Somehow their guest was amazing but mine sucked. Halfway through they decided to not play, they just stopped playing but kept talking. We were winning until this point, then we lost the lead, then they quit so it was 5v2. God dammit!

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=734311987&player=SenadorKooch

I've noticed every once in a while that people will bring in guests that don't play. Is this some form of trolling? I don't get it.

Man, guests piss me off. Why do they get to ruin my experience?

Same here. Would love to see it but I'm one of the 27 people on the planet that doesn't have Facebook (and never had it).

So let me know if you get it uploaded to YouTube.

I have FB, but I don't allow apps access to my stuff so I can't get in. :/

 

[Devolution]

I usually have no problem with bloom. My real problem is guests!

I just played a round of Squad and had 2 guests on my team and 3 on theirs. Somehow their guest was amazing but mine sucked. Halfway through they decided to not play, they just stopped playing but kept talking. We were winning until this point, then we lost the lead, then they quit so it was 5v2. God dammit!

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=734311987&player=SenadorKooch

I've noticed every once in a while that people will bring in guests that don't play. Is this some form of trolling? I don't get it.

Man, guests piss me off. Why do they get to ruin my experience?




I have FB, but I don't allow apps access to my stuff so I can't get in. :/

Friends don't let friends play solo. It just ain't worth it man.

 

[darthbob]

I've noticed every once in a while that people will bring in guests that don't play. Is this some form of trolling? I don't get it.

Man, guests piss me off. Why do they get to ruin my experience?

We should be able to filter guests on/off.

Spoiler

Always off, and that's why we don't get that option.

 

[TrounceX]

That's a problem with Reach then isn't it? Did you have this problem in h2/h3? Was there bloom? I rest my case.

Well yeah actually I would have had this problem with Halo 2. Luckily there were button glitches that expanded the skill gap infinitely farther than any bloom mechanic ever could.

Halo 3 it was comparatively hard to aim and shot leading took a little bit of skill I guess.

So yeah both the other Halo games had systems in place to increase the skill gap. Reach has bloom. Remove it and we have a problem. I don't get what you're saying...

 

[Havok]

Anchor 9 (at least Unanchored) is one of my favorites.

People weren't necessarily "gushing" over Tempest, but laying out how poor its spawns are. But you can pinpoint any bad spawns, i.e. Standoff was much worse.

A lot of people were totally gushing over it, raising it up to the ever-so-high bar of 'best map in Reach.'

I still think it's the most overrated Reach map. Too many problems and bullshit experiences on that map to call it good.

Anchor 9 could be amazing without the low-grav section and better spawns. The layout is great.

 

[Devolution]

Well yeah actually I would have had this problem with Halo 2. Luckily there were button glitches that expanded the skill gap infinitely farther than any bloom mechanic ever could.

Halo 3 it was comparatively hard to aim and shot leading took a little bit of skill I guess.

So yeah both the other Halo games had systems in place to increase the skill gap. Reach has bloom. Remove it and we have a problem. I don't get what you're saying...

I'm saying the skill gap in those games was fine without bloom. The fact that they have to add such a mechanic to bring some difficulty back into the game is hogwash and a problem with Reach, not the so called "skill gaps" in Halo in general.

 

[senador]

Friends don't let friends play solo. It just ain't worth it man.

No one was on. I guess that's what I get for taking a break from working to play a few rounds. I still need more peoples on my FL too, everyone on mine seems to not be playing when I do.

 

[Tunavi]

If you're playing this game without a full party team, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I like Anchor 9, and I like Tempest.

If you're playing this game without a full party team, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah.

 

[Karl2177]

I redid my weapon sandbox wants/fixes. Aside from bloom and AAs, part of the problem rests in the sandbox. ARs and DMRs are wildly too powerful for a spawning weapon, which leaves the pistol thrown in the mix. I think that by returning the scoped SMG and the spread BR(unpopular opinion, I know!) it would alleviate some of the issues for spawning weapons. Both are capable off spawn to kill, but really aren't the best tools to get the job done. Give the AR more power, but limit its range. Limit the DMR's RoF and maybe give it another shot to kill, and it becomes the Designated Marksman Rifle.

This would allow the Shotgun, Sniper, Rockets, and Laser to be true power weapons. As of now, these weapons are practically forced to be on the map, due to the way the sandbox is. The other weapons mentioned on the list serve other functions that still should be in a Halo game.

 

[senador]

I like A9 and Tempest too. A9 is a lot better now that rockets spawn timer has been increased.

I would love to play with a full party, but that's not usually available to me, and sometimes I just want to do a game or 2.

 

[TrounceX]

I'm saying the skill gap in those games was fine without bloom. The fact that they have to add such a mechanic to bring some difficulty back into the game is hogwash and a problem with Reach, not the so called "skill gaps" in Halo in general.

The skill gap in those games was only fine because of the game play mechanics that I mentioned. Of which, Reach has none.


Whatever, I absolutely guarantee that people complain about the classic playlists once they come out. I look forward to the day that a guest can 5 shot me by mashing the trigger and hardly even aiming.

 

[Tunavi]

Anchor 9 could be amazing without the low-grav section and better spawns.

The last time I rage quit was on Anchor 9. A teammate stole my kill, the guy who died shit out a grenade (the lag didn't even register the animation, just fell right from his crotch), and it killed me. I respawned on the edge of the space platform, and because I always hold the walking stick forward as I spawn, I walked right off the fucking edge to my death. Raged so hard.

I would love to play with a full party, but that's not usually available to me

I recommend the Bungie.net classifieds

Whatever, I absolutely guarantee that people complain about the classic playlists once they come out. I look forward to the day that a guest can 5 shot me by mashing the trigger and hardly even aiming.

Dude, you're good. You're acting like everyone is going to shit on you once bloom is gone. lol

 

[Devolution]

The skill gap in those games was only fine because of the game play mechanics that I mentioned. Of which, Reach has none.

That was my point from the beginning. That they didn't need bloom and could have stuck with what they had from h2 or h3. You just want to keep bloom out of some vague notion that it fixes problems with Reach, when it's not really necessary for future games in the series. Besides people will find a way to make skill gaps of their own.

::adaptation gif::

 

[A27_StarWolf]

The last time I rage quit was on Anchor 9. A teammate stole my kill, the guy who died shit out a grenade (the lag didn't even register the animation, just fell right from his crotch), and it killed me. I respawned on the edge of the space platform, and because I always hold the walking stick forward as I spawn, I walked right off the fucking edge to my death. Raged so hard.


I recommend the Bungie.net classifieds


Dude, you're good. You're acting like everyone is going to shit on you once bloom is gone. lol

Won't the DMR be overpowered with no bloom?

 

[Tawpgun]

Bloom is a terrible way to increase the skill gap because it leaves room for chance. A lesser player isn't going to accidentally double shot someone.

EDIT: Someone on HBO posted steaks.
http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1091260#m_1091260

 

[Schmitty]

The skill gap in those games was only fine because of the game play mechanics that I mentioned. Of which, Reach has none.


Whatever, I absolutely guarantee that people complain about the classic playlists once they come out. I look forward to the day that a guest can 5 shot me by mashing the trigger and hardly even aiming.

I never encountered getting 4 shot consistently by bad players in Halo 2/3. Sure, there are always outliers once in a while, but without the randomness of that last shot that bloom throws into the equation, the more skilled player won a majority of encounters BR v BR.

 

[Plywood]

Won't the DMR be overpowered with no bloom?

asd.,fmnas',l;nf'l;kn

Obviously it would be replaced by rate of fire.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

asd.,fmnas',l;nf'l;kn

Obviously it would be replaced by rate of fire.

I just don't know if they would be changing that, I thought they were leaving a lot of things untouched, has there been any bloom removal confirmation?

I was just thinking about long range DMR torture lol.

 

[MrBig]

You wouldn't just flip a switch and remove bloom. There would be obvious other alterations.
They can do whatever they want in classic. It's the rest of Reach they're not touching, unless any of the classic changes are unanimously wanted by the community for the rest of Reach.

 

[Tunavi]

Won't the DMR be overpowered with no bloom?

Here's the DMR I want
2x Scope (right now its 3x, shits ridiculous)
Fixed firing rate is much slower
No bloom
Perfect accuracy (like the first shot you take now, but every shot)
4 shot kill (so people can't eat 4 shots and sprint away)

Something can't be overpowered if everyone spawns with it.

Spoiler

Except for armor abilities. lol

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Here's the DMR I want
2x Scope (right now its 3x, shits ridiculous)
Fixed firing rate is much slower
No bloom
Perfect accuracy (like the first shot you take now, but every shot)
4 shot kill (so people can't eat 4 shots and sprint away)

Something can't be overpowered if everyone spawns with it.

Spoiler

Except for armor abilities. lol

That sounds like it could be awesome.

 

[Woorloog]

I redid my weapon sandbox wants/fixes. Aside from bloom and AAs, part of the problem rests in the sandbox. ARs and DMRs are wildly too powerful for a spawning weapon, which leaves the pistol thrown in the mix. I think that by returning the scoped SMG and the spread BR(unpopular opinion, I know!) it would alleviate some of the issues for spawning weapons. Both are capable off spawn to kill, but really aren't the best tools to get the job done. Give the AR more power, but limit its range. Limit the DMR's RoF and maybe give it another shot to kill, and it becomes the Designated Marksman Rifle.

This would allow the Shotgun, Sniper, Rockets, and Laser to be true power weapons. As of now, these weapons are practically forced to be on the map, due to the way the sandbox is. The other weapons mentioned on the list serve other functions that still should be in a Halo game.

I'd change DMR to some Covenant weapon. Carbine or Nerfle (Think Nerfle as it's seen in the ending cutscene of New Alexandria mission, almost like a sniper, as DMR would be IRL).
And i'd drop Laser completly. No to instant vehicle killers or homing missiles (except VS air, and even then i'd rather have a flak weapon than a missile). And i'd keep OP vehicles out of maps... Otherwise i like your sandbox a lot.
Alternatively to that Carbine/Nerfle should replace DMR, many weapons could have Covenant counterpart but that being essentially just an aesthetic difference. (No major differences, for example: Beam Rifle would be able to shoot 4 times before needing to vent heat, manual venting only, no double shot)

• Sword-Shotgun (balance them to have same range and kill propability, sword could have glancing strikes as the shotgun can have partial miss, no sword clash?
• Rockets-Fuel Rod
• Sniper-Beam Rifle
• AR-Plasma Repeater (If AR has 32 rounds, then PRep has 32 shots before overheating, manual vent only)
• DMR-Nerfle
• BR-Carbine (Burst firing Carbine *shrug*)
• Do note that Pistol and SMG wouldn't have counterparts unless such are invented (a new Brute pistol and Spiker?)
• Weapons like 'Nade Launcher, Focus Rifle and Plasma Rifle wouldn't have counterparts being special/Power weapons

Counterparts would be mostly to make an illusion of more weapons, differentiate map sides, balanced SvE, themed maps.

And while i love jetpack (jump pack would be fun(nier)), i'd bring back equipment from Halo 3, rebalanced and adjusted (no friendlies triggering in the trip mine by walking around it; smaller, shorter lasting bubble (that can move (round desing)) that can be destroyed)

 

[kittens]

I like A9 and Tempest too. A9 is a lot better now that rockets spawn timer has been increased.

I would love to play with a full party, but that's not usually available to me, and sometimes I just want to do a game or 2.

I'm looking for more folks to play with, even if just ocassionally. GT = popular revolt.

 

[Plywood]

I just don't know if they would be changing that, I thought they were leaving a lot of things untouched, has there been any bloom removal confirmation?

I was just thinking about long range DMR torture lol.

Have you been paying attention lately?

Frankie has said there would be many different changes coming, but they would be in their own separate playlist, the core Reach experience would remain unchanged. Most of these new things would be customizable settings.

 

[Risen]

The skill gap in those games was only fine because of the game play mechanics that I mentioned. Of which, Reach has none.

I look forward to the day that a guest can 5 shot me by mashing the trigger and hardly even aiming.

Bloom mostly increases the connection gap. As implemented in Reach it only marginally increases the skill gap. There is something to be said for dealing with it, knowing when and how to pace, and where to aim while bloomed at different stages.

However, on the wrong side of the connection, anyone can mash the trigger as fast as possible with little skill involved and 5 shot you all day.

In previous iterations of the game, there was a faster movement speed, so increased strafe and you could lead shots and have damage dealt due to a three shot stream of bullets each trigger pull.

The better skilled player could win out at a MUCH higher frequency on a bad or off connection... in Reach, this happens much less frequently.

Now there are those with connections who will experience this to a much lesser degree than others - no doubt, but play on a high download, low upload, high latency connection and bloom will drive you insane.

At the end of the day, it is a mechanic that implemented online is a bad idea for competitive play. Not only does it introduce random chance, but it all too often means that connection takes the day rather than skill.

 

[Woorloog]

Have you been paying attention lately?

Frankie has said there would be many different changes coming, but they would be in their own separate playlist, the core Reach experience would remain unchanged. Most of these new things would be customizable settings.

Only one playlist at start? (I'd guess two actually, Slayer and Objective).
I hope we getting Classic ++ BTB... Ones the changes arrive, i doubt i'll stick to standard Reach. Though without BTB there won't be much to play...
EDIT, BTB is not necessary but i want vehicles too. They're part of Halo, but Reach offers only vehicles in BTB ATM. Hemorrhage in any other list doesn't count.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

The thing I noticed watching all that MLG this weekend is bloom definitely increases the desire to only put one or two shots into someone at a time. Place two shots then evade or strafe behind a wall let your bloom go back to normal and then continue the battle. It just elongates what used to be fast furious gameplay.

I'd love for an option to turn it off. After all bloom almost definitely works better in unshielded games like CoD Games where it only matters ONCE not over and over for an extended period of time like Halo battles can.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Have you been paying attention lately?

Frankie has said there would be many different changes coming, but they would be in their own separate playlist, the core Reach experience would remain unchanged. Most of these new things would be customizable settings.

I've done my best but I have not been able to keep up with GAF do to being busy, I can usually catch the two most recent pages.

 

[Devolution]

The thing I noticed watching all that MLG this weekend is bloom definitely increases the desire to only put one or two shots into someone at a time. Place two shots then evade or strafe behind a wall let your bloom go back to normal and then continue the battle. It just elongates what used to be fast furious gameplay.

I'd love for an option to turn it off. After all bloom almost definitely works better in unshielded games like CoD Games where it only matters ONCE not over and over for an extended period of time like Halo battles can.

Yes. Halo battles can be extended enough with shields and duck/cover techniques. Then when you throw bloom/AAs into the mix, it just becomes real hide and seek type shit.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Yes. Halo battles can be extended enough with shields and duck/cover techniques. Then when you throw bloom/AAs into the mix, it just becomes real hide and seek type shit.

Its why I like heading into Team Classic now and then you get that fast movement speed without the AA's and the NR tones the effects of bloom down so it becomes more like the old H2 gameplay. The maps aren't too bad either (Midship, Beaver Creek or Warlock pop up almost every time)

 

[Devolution]

Its why I like heading into Team Classic now and then you get that fast movement speed without the AA's and the NR tones the effects of bloom down so it becomes more like the old H2 gameplay. The maps aren't too bad either (Midship, Beaver Creek or Warlock pop up almost every time)

Played some last night, warlock one was like <3.

 

[Havok]

The last time I rage quit was on Anchor 9. A teammate stole my kill, the guy who died shit out a grenade (the lag didn't even register the animation, just fell right from his crotch), and it killed me. I respawned on the edge of the space platform, and because I always hold the walking stick forward as I spawn, I walked right off the fucking edge to my death. Raged so hard.

I cannot believe that spawn in particular was ever placed by a rational human being who thought "oh yeah, this won't be the worst fucking thing in history" as he set it down. I mean, really? A spawn point on the very edge of a platform with nothing directly underneath it?

 

[TrounceX]

Bloom is a terrible way to increase the skill gap because it leaves room for chance. A lesser player isn't going to accidentally double shot someone.

EDIT: Someone on HBO posted steaks.
http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1091260#m_1091260

A properly executed bloom system is actually a good way to increase the skill gap. Just because Reach didn't get it quite right doesn't mean the idea is a bad one. Some of the most competitive games of all times had a bloom system. Shadowrun and CS for example.

 

[Plywood]

I've done my best but I have not been able to keep up with GAF do to being busy, I can usually catch the two most recent pages.

Well they've dropped hints on bloom, the pistol and the sword if any of the pics in their updates are any indication.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Well they've dropped hints on bloom, the pistol and the sword if any of the pics in their updates are any indication.

could you possibly link to some pictures?

 

[User 73706]

If the picture's any indication, the Pistol will now be 17x its original size and allow for contact damage, as well as melee damage being increased by 77%. The sword will be receiving bloom.

 

[Booshka]

A properly executed bloom system is actually a good way to increase the skill gap. Just because Reach didn't get it quite right doesn't mean the idea is a bad one. Some of the most competitive games of all times had a bloom system. Shadowrun and CS for example.

True, I just think the fact that Bungie only really went halfway with the bloom mechanic, combined with the Shield/Health discrepancy Halo games have, it turned into frustration instead of fun. Also, the fact that the connection influences your bloom reset time makes it ridiculous.

 

[Plywood]

could you possibly link to some pictures?

 

[kittens]

Well they've dropped hints on bloom, the pistol and the sword if any of the pics in their updates are any indication.

I've missed/overlooked the sword one. What could they change? Lunge distance? Remove sword blocking?

 

[Tunavi]

I've missed/overlooked the sword one. What could they change? Lunge distance? Remove sword blocking?

Its in the background of the second picture with the red spartan

Spoiler

pleasuring himself to the frankie folder on his computer

. Sword block should be removed, they should add a cool down from sprinting/evading into a lunge.

 

[senador]

I am skeptical of the changes coming for now. For the most part I like Reach gameplay. Classic play will be fun, but probably won't be my permanent home. I'd like to see Reach tweaked a bit to make it better, but its been implied that it will stay the same. I just want to know all the changes now gosh darned it.

I'm looking for more folks to play with, even if just ocassionally. GT = popular revolt.

Added. Thanks!

 

[Deputy Moonman]

If you're playing this game without a full party team, you're doing it wrong.

During Halo2 and Halo3, I played solo all the time in matchmaking. There were definitely games that were frustrating, but overall, I was still able to enjoy the experience and have a lot of fun. The fact that you can't go into Reach solo and have a decent experience is just sad.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Thanks for the pictures! I never noticed them before...

 

[Tunavi]

During Halo2 and Halo3, I played solo all the time in matchmaking. There were definitely games that were frustrating, but overall, I was still able to enjoy the experience and have a lot of fun. The fact that you can't go into Reach solo and have a decent experience is just sad.

It's not the game's fault. Halo is a team based game. I need teammates with mics and teammates I can depend on. 90% of randoms don't use mics. The skill gap is strongly influenced by how well a team works together. Halo isn't a one man army game. You are rewarded for cooperation and I thats why I love it.

So if I get matched up with negativeKD, negativeKD(1), IhavenoMic, and IhavenoMic(1), chances are I'm not going to win or have fun.

If I play with Xenolock, ShadowEmbracer, and | Devolution |, these are players I can depend on and communicate with.

Spoiler

seriously best team evar, can I get a brofist