xxjuicesxx
Member
Get shit on Fyrewulfffff
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Halo: Reach |OT5| A Monument to All Our Sins
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
HiredN00bs
Member
xxjuicesxx said:
TruSkill is broken.
Isn't that Elen though?Havok said:
He won 86 games in a row. I won over 50. Most of them being outright decimations. The game after I lost, I played a commander (or whatever the two stars are in Reach) and his 3 guests in 3 Flag on Anchor 9. The first 6 or so caps I encountered literally no resistance. It was 11-0 at the finish.HiredN00bs said:
So yep. Thanks for admitting it.
HiredN00bs
Member
You guys are better than most of the player population, would you rather have 10 minute search times, or would you rather play Halo?
RebornYeti
Member
I just realized today by playing TO that I am not that great at objective-based gametypes. 
Sorry if I held you back in TO, Tunavi and Tawpgun.
Sorry if I held you back in TO, Tunavi and Tawpgun.
Well I'd rather play Halo, but if this is true than it confirms trueskill IS broken. Faster times > even match.HiredN00bs said:
The team we played didn't have a useless random, but they were also very good. Would have given the A team a tough time.-Yeti said:I just realized today by playing TO that I am not that great at objective-based gametypes.
Sorry if I held you back in TO, Tunavi and Tawpgun.
Nope! Checked this preposterously large version to be sure. http://lukemcreynolds.com/files/wallpaper/BSG_2.jpgA27 Tawpgun said:
HiredN00bs
Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
I was being facetious when I said TruSkill was broken. It works fantastically, as long as it has a sufficient player population to find skill matches. When it doesn't, it has to make compromises. It's a balancing act, and I'm guessing you guys don't use the skill search restriction.
^^^Wha? Do you really think it works well? I don't. I think its loose. Maybe that's on purpose for fast matches, but loose nonetheless. Its fun when its loose for the other team, but I'd just rather it be tightened up. I am going to try the skill restriction to see if that helps.
Man, the avoid system blows. I avoided these 2 guys in Premium Slayer, then I got them again, and now again! Grrrr.
Man, the avoid system blows. I avoided these 2 guys in Premium Slayer, then I got them again, and now again! Grrrr.
I can tell something is in effect, because when I play in a party with GAFers - who are generally far above my skill levels - I get utterly demolished by the players we go up against. They always far outclass me. When I play solo matchmaking, I win about half the time and often do pretty good.senador said:
I think you guys need to realize a lot of you are in the top ~10%+ of the player base, so there usually are not may players of your skill level to get matched up with. Poor guys.
Stripper13
Member
This.GhaleonEB said:
I don't feel all that great at the game, however I am consistently positive in team slayer - often by quite a bit. If I play by myself, it's always a tight match - occasionally I get matched against a team/person who is quite obviously far better than me - but most of the time it's a close match with one or two stand out players.
If I group up with real life friends (some of whom aren't very good) - it can go either way. We either get matched against a team that is good competition for myself and a friend who is quite good... Which leads the 'newb' friends to complain that the people we are matched against are far too good. The alternative is that the team we get matched against is good competition for our 'newb' friends, and myself and aforementioned 'good' friend - proceed to trounce the other team easily.
I think trueskill is working it's magic well in Reach. Ultimately, for the GAFers who are awesome and regularly destroy the competition - it's compromising skill levels to actually find a game at all. It's not always fair or fun, but that's the reality of a matchmaking system dealing with the top percentile of players.
In contrast - Call of Duty MW1/2/BLOPS is an embarrassment. A group of friends and I (enough to fill entire a team) would decimate each and every team we were matched against. We would never get matched against a full party or a group of good players (we, ourselves weren't brilliant at the game), and the game would consistently throw us into the quickest lobby it could. Useless system - and I'd take Halo's implementation any day of the week.
Lyphen said:
Defiant achievements were poorly implemented, which is why I like how they were glitched and could be gotten in customs. The objective-centric ones in Noble were awarded to the entire team (as it should be), while for some reason the Defiant objective ones were only awarded to the specific person that pulled off the feat, which encourages people to betray teammates..
Especially the flag return one, since you have to tell everyone to stay away from the flag so that you can get credit for it :lol
For Dani
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=20910411&player=GhaleonEB
Other moment I rendered from earlier tonight, escoring Bozo and his brother with the bomb.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=20899054&player=GhaleonEB
Despite getting my head blown off at the end it was fun to snag and then use the ride to help pave the road.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=20910411&player=GhaleonEB
Other moment I rendered from earlier tonight, escoring Bozo and his brother with the bomb.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=20899054&player=GhaleonEB
Despite getting my head blown off at the end it was fun to snag and then use the ride to help pave the road.
Honestly, what sets off the assassination? I've held down the button and done a normal beat down, and I've barely tapped it and done an overdrawn self-screwing dance. At least 3 times tonight, I haven't meant to pump my knife in their ass, but it did it for me anyways and got me killed. It's bullshit.
/rant
/rant
Barrow Roll
Member
This is why so many gaffers are getting so frustrated lately. Some of you guys put Reach up on a pedestal, like it's infallible. I don't know what to say if you really think trueskill works "fantastically." That's just insane. No matter the playlist, we rarely get matched up with parties near our skill level. I could understand if it was only in Objective since it has a consistently low population, but that's simply not the case.HiredN00bs said:
HiredN00bs
Member
Karl2177 said:
It seems to be adversely affected by latency. The game only has mere frames to decide which you're doing. This could be corrected by having discrete buttons for each.
Steelyuhas
Member
Ken said:
Yeah I've never had an issue with it either. Sometimes I want to do the animation, and others I don't, and I haven't had an issue doing the one that I want.
HiredN00bs
Member
Barrow Roll said:
There is freely available documentation on the technical machinations of TruSkill, perhaps you'd like to provide a more detailed critique on what errors were made instead of anecdotal bullshit.
Have at it: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
GhaleonEB said:
So awesome. Love how the projectiles simply appear and fire off as I strike a constant pose. And evading with it looks so stupid. Win.
I have 13 assasinations, and none of them were intentional (against 97 beat downs). Four or five got me killed.Ken said:
I never, ever perform them on purpose.
My favorite bit is the way you bend at the knees slighly when landing after a jump. Nothing else animates, but you recoil a wee bit from that.Dani said:
Barrow Roll
Member
Cute.HiredN00bs said:
As a player of a video game that doesn't mire themselves in every single technical aspect, all I can do is provide anecdotal evidence. Just because some article says that's how it's supposed to work doesn't mean it always does. And if it is? Well it's doing a shitty job. Wouldn't it be lovely if everything written actually worked in practice?
HiredN00bs
Member
With many of the commendations, I'm going to hit Inheritor before I go Onyx, or even Gold on some of them. They're not really a good way to earn cR unless you're just starting, they might as well be worth nothing.Havok said:
I am going to keep working towards 100%, though. Completionism is its own reward (plus, I'll be able to continue my progress on CEA).
HiredN00bs
Member
Barrow Roll said:
What would be lovely is if people stopped making ignorant unfounded criticisms. Turn on skill restrictions or play Arena or both and stop blaming things you don't even understand.
HiredN00bs said:
Commendations at onyx should have rewarded an armory item that reflects the commendation. For example, Onyx: Close Quarters could award a new wrist attachment (why were gauntlets not a option in the armory? You'd at least get to see your new gauntlets unlike the knee guards which don't show up on your active roster Spartan) or Onyx: One Shot could give the player a new marksman helmet like Jun's helmet in his concept art.
Devolution
Member
HiredN00bs said:
If I solo-queue my opponents will typically be on my level, my team mates however? Pfft. And if I'm in a full party, I'm more than not likely going up against people who are nowhere near my team's overall level.
TruSkill has rarely worked as it should for me.
Devolution said:
Mixed skill parties ( > 10 level gap in Halo 3's system, since Reach isn't actually running 1-50 in the background I don't know what it's gap is) will always be difficult to match closely.
The only game I know of that displays "Party Trueskill" is Halo Wars, though. So Wars actually does tell you what average TS skill it's looking to match you up with. But then again, Wars has no "social" playlists at all - it is 100% ranked.
I know in Halo 3, people that didn't play as much BTB as me would be in relatively normal games, and then once they would invite me into the party, I'd start pulling 45-50s in as our opponents. I'm sitting around 530 BTB EXP in Halo 3, so my invisible BTB TS is definitely zoned in fairly well, I would think.
It's still miles ahead of Halo 2's ELO system.
xxjuicesxx
Member
People who say anecdotal evidence should go stick something up their butt.
How are peoples experiences not valid? I just won 86 games in a row. If trueskill was around and working it would be near 50% win.loss after its figured my skill. This is not the case.
They need to tighten MM settings, regardless of "wait time"
How are peoples experiences not valid? I just won 86 games in a row. If trueskill was around and working it would be near 50% win.loss after its figured my skill. This is not the case.
They need to tighten MM settings, regardless of "wait time"
Ken said:
That wasn't the planned design though. Commendations are supposed to do two things:
First, provide incentive to new players to test out the various aspects of the game.
Second, provide a sort of playstyle profile at a glance. As someone who has played the game a lot. For this reason, cR payouts are deliberately low so that at higher levels grinding them out is not worth it for the credits (though it is early on, see point 1). At the point of Onyx the rewards absolutely become token because you aren't playing for them and thus it is giving you an accurate overview of your playstyle. The problem is that the commendations do not seem to progress at the same rate. Two in Firefight in particular have insane requirements.
So in those aspects I think the commendation system is fairly successful. I like the idea of linking armor to specific milestones but then I think that would work against the second purpose of the system in the first place.
Barrow Roll said:
Be glad your not one of these people. It does make it hard to lurk this thread with some of these people on ignore, but it's better than reading the walls of text about how they know everything about Halo and how it works or is supposed too. A good example was the Jetpack discussion.
I know I'm still a Junior but some of these new Juniors are crazy. I even took Shogun of my ignore list recently. lol.
stephen08 said:
I can see the "playstyle profile at a glance" idea and the problem of people playing in a degenerative manner (only using ARs in a rifle loadout game to grind out Onyx: Trigger Man for that Mister Chief helmet) as they already do for challenges, but really, I just want more armor pieces.
]:
Hey guys, I have a great idea to improve Trueskill matching.
The main problem is that new players entering a playlist, mixed skill parties, and guests fuck with TS's ability to match close games, right? Right.
So this is what I propose:
We create a new playlist.
Ban guests from playing, they throw off TS.
Turn the restrictions on matching up so only close skills are matched.
Then, make a system to encourage these players to play a minimum amount of games before we show their skill level. This will make them play enough games for TS to figure them out. Let's say around 30 games before we show them their skill level. TS can figure out your skill in about 12 games, so about twice that amount will give us better results.
After that (hold on, it gets good), take only their BEST performances (so people aren't encouraged to quit out of losing games and don't have loss anxiety) and put them into a TS group. Since we're not running Halo 3's hill-climb 1-50 in the background, the number would jump up and down too much (even after wins) and would confuse the player. So we reduce the number of possible groups down to 4-5 and then just show them a general percentage of placement within that group, like Starcraft 2 or some shit. Let's call them Leagues or something like that, I can't remember what else you'd call a group of people with similiar skill, but I'll edit it in when I do.
So now we have:
- no guests and minimal mixed parties
- harder restrictions for close games
- encourage the player to play a minimum of games to get enough data points into the TS black box to promote better matching
So everyone in this playlist would get competitive games at their skill level. The minimum game amount would make boosting pointless.
I'd call it The Coliseum.
Hire me 343.
The main problem is that new players entering a playlist, mixed skill parties, and guests fuck with TS's ability to match close games, right? Right.
So this is what I propose:
We create a new playlist.
Ban guests from playing, they throw off TS.
Turn the restrictions on matching up so only close skills are matched.
Then, make a system to encourage these players to play a minimum amount of games before we show their skill level. This will make them play enough games for TS to figure them out. Let's say around 30 games before we show them their skill level. TS can figure out your skill in about 12 games, so about twice that amount will give us better results.
After that (hold on, it gets good), take only their BEST performances (so people aren't encouraged to quit out of losing games and don't have loss anxiety) and put them into a TS group. Since we're not running Halo 3's hill-climb 1-50 in the background, the number would jump up and down too much (even after wins) and would confuse the player. So we reduce the number of possible groups down to 4-5 and then just show them a general percentage of placement within that group, like Starcraft 2 or some shit. Let's call them Leagues or something like that, I can't remember what else you'd call a group of people with similiar skill, but I'll edit it in when I do.
So now we have:
- no guests and minimal mixed parties
- harder restrictions for close games
- encourage the player to play a minimum of games to get enough data points into the TS black box to promote better matching
So everyone in this playlist would get competitive games at their skill level. The minimum game amount would make boosting pointless.
I'd call it The Coliseum.
Hire me 343.
Ken said:
I'd love more armor as well, that was one of my favorite minor changes from 2 to 3 to Reach was the increase in player customization. On that note it would be nice if there were more modes where your colours wouldn't be overridden. There's no real way around it in TS style lists but with something like Invasion it should keep your selected colour.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
FyreWulff said:
Ha. Funny guy.
Blue Ninja
Member
Man, that B.net thread is amazing. The tears, the tears...
Now all Halo 4 needs is bloom, just to see the nuclear flame war that would cause.
Now all Halo 4 needs is bloom, just to see the nuclear flame war that would cause.
Devolution
Member
-Guys this is how truskill is said to work
-Yeah well here's how it works
-Snarky bullshit
No wonder people don't like some of the juniors in here.
-Yeah well here's how it works
-Snarky bullshit
No wonder people don't like some of the juniors in here.
Devolution
Member
stephen08 said:
I have yet to get such snarky bullshit from the established members of HaloGAF when I post about my personal experiences with something that's supposed to work "in theory."