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[HiredN00bs]

Bloom =/= bullet spread

He posted an example of the pistol in Halo 2 becoming less accurate when fired quickly. That is identical to the bloom mechanic in Reach only there is no visual feedback. Clearly, it is better to have feedback. I don't see how this is an adequate response.

 

[Havok]

So now asking for a reliable and consistent meat-and-potatoes utility weapon is akin to wanting instagib.

Next up on 'missing the point': wanting to have fixed spawns is really asking for god mode, ice cream, and an hourly blowjob.

 

[Risen]

And then people will bitch about the recoil and the circle will be complete because now you've divided by zero.

I think what everyone secretly wants is just Halo: Reach: Instagib. Super accurate weapons, first firer always wins, and we can mod the game to say "MUH MUH MUH MUH MUH MULTIKILL" when you're doing well.

No... the "people" you refer to want skill to make the difference.

They don't want crutches... they don't want things that make the connection gap online greater than it is. They don't want people of lesser skill who play stupidly to win an encounter simply because of a game mechanic in an online competition.

If I get first shot and have better skill, I should win the encounter barring some counter in skill from the other player - or other team. That's the nature of gaming... if I outplay you... I win.

Skilled people able to overcome recoil would never bitch about recoil... it increases the skill gap - which is what skilled people want. The bitching would switch entirely to those who couldn't handle it. There's your circle...

It's like in the Gears Beta with the Retro Lancer and Hammerburst - skilled people DOMINATED with them because they could control recoil. Those that couldn't got pooped on. Because of a difference in skill... not a game mechanic that turns into a crutch.

The difference is the game would play to it's core as a game should... an environment where those that out play others - win.

 

[FyreWulff]

So now asking for a reliable and consistent meat-and-potatoes utility weapon is akin to wanting instagib.

Nope. Asking for a weapon that is 100% accurate, fires super fast, and has a 3x scope might as well be instagib with how fast the kill times would be with that thing, because you'll be killing people in about 2 seconds flat on average.

Also, Weekly #45 complete. Jesus christ that took forever, even though it was only 25 games to finish it. I think if they require any more rounds than that I'm throwing in the towel.

skill gap

That term makes me laugh every time I see it, because the definition of it changes every time a new Halo comes out.

 

[Steelyuhas]

No... the "people" you refer to want skill to make the difference.

They don't want crutches... they don't want things that make the connection gap online greater than it is. They don't want people of lesser skill who play stupidly to win an encounter simply because of a game mechanic in an online competition.

If I get first shot and have better skill, I should win the encounter barring some counter in skill from the other player - or other team. That's the nature of gaming... if I outplay you... I win.

Skilled people able to overcome recoil would never bitch about recoil... it increases the skill gap - which is what skilled people want. The bitching would switch entirely to those who couldn't handle it. There's your circle...

It's like in the Gears Beta with the Retro Lancer and Hammerburst - skilled people DOMINATED with them because they could control recoil. Those that couldn't got pooped on. Because of a difference in skill... not a game mechanic that turns into a crutch.

The difference is the game would play to it's core as a game should... an environment where those that out play others - win.

Nope. Asking for a weapon that is 100% accurate, fires super fast, and has a 3x scope might as well be instagib with how fast the kill times would be with that thing, because you'll be killing people in about 2 seconds flat on average.

Also, Weekly #45 complete. Jesus christ that took forever, even though it was only 25 games to finish it. I think if they require any more rounds than that I'm throwing in the towel.

Killing people in 2 seconds is not very quick.

 

[The Henery]

No, I like his idea. It is a good option. But it is inevitable that people will complain about recoil just like they complained about the SMG's recoil in Halo 2. Because this is the internet.

I really feel like the sniper rifle should have distinctly obvious recoil, for instance, so you actually have to re-acquire between each shot. I seem to remember it was rumored at one point that the H2 sniper had extreme recoil during development, but I guess they went back on that before the game came out. Would really add a level of skill to using it. The bloom on the Reach sniper seems to be purely for show, as it resets so fast to be a non-factor (and you can't fire during reloading, which makes having the reticule go super-wide while doing it just a graphical frill)

Oh really do not want.

They neutered the firing rate of the sniper rifle as it is plus they made the reload animation longer (which thankfully can be countered by a quick double tap of sprint). For Halo 4 I hope they return to a sniper that took a reasonable amount of skill to be good with ala the Halo 3 sniper.

 

[Havok]

Nope. Asking for a weapon that is 100% accurate, fires super fast, and has a 3x scope might as well be instagib

But nobody is asking for that! Nobody is saying that bloom is the only variable that needs to be tweaked here. Obviously it comes with a host of changes to make it a more consistent weapon without being broken. You're making up arguments to opinions that don't exist here. People have said specifically time and time again in arguments like this that yes, fire times would need to be adjusted. That's not a point of contention here, but you keep bringing it up as though we all have our fingers in our ears. I would certainly rather have a slower firing weapon that didn't hamper my ability at certain ranges than a dice roll.

 

[FyreWulff]

Oh really do not want.

They neutered the firing rate of the sniper rifle as it is plus they made the reload animation longer (which thankfully can be countered by a quick double tap of sprint). For Halo 4 I hope they return to a sniper that took a reasonable amount of skill to be good with ala the Halo 3 sniper.

The Halo 3 sniper was hard to use? You didn't even need to lead it. It shot exactly where you pointed at, instantly, across the entire map.

Even Wu can get consistent kills with the Halo 3 sniper. Even I can consistently get kills with the H3 sniper, where I tend to defer sniper duty to someone else in Reach. Although I always switched out the human one for the Beamer in Run for Cover.

 

[Slightly Live]

He posted an example of the pistol in Halo 2 becoming less accurate when fired quickly. That is identical to the bloom mechanic in Reach only there is no visual feedback. Clearly, it is better to have feedback. I don't see how this is an adequate response.

No.

Fyrewulf, we have gone over this before. You are correct that spread has been in past Halo games. What your reminders miss is the way it was implemented in Reach, and extended to the primary precision weapons. And as Dani said above, spread is not the same thing as bloom.

Your pictures are a good starting point to discuss those differences, but just posting them and saying, hey Halo 2 had bloom doesn't mean a lot. The two games handled bullet precision totally differently.

.

 

[HiredN00bs]

But nobody is asking for that! Nobody is saying that bloom is the only variable that needs to be tweaked here. Obviously it comes with a host of changes to make it a more consistent weapon without being broken. You're making up arguments to opinions that don't exist here. People have said specifically time and time again in arguments like this that yes, fire times would need to be adjusted. That's not a point of contention here, but you keep bringing it up as though we all have our fingers in our ears. I would certainly rather have a slower firing weapon that didn't hamper my ability at certain ranges than a dice roll.

There are several things that could be adjusted: firing rate, clip size, damage...all of which would significantly change the game and have potential unforseen negative consequences, even if thoroughly tested.

And maybe nobody here is asking to "just turn it off" (although I'm not entirely sure of that), but there's plenty on Waypoint and Bungie.net that make no qualifications for "NO BLOOM".

And comparing skirmishes in Reach to "dice rolls" is a bit hyperbolic.

 

[Karl2177]

The Halo 3 sniper was hard to use? You didn't even need to lead it. It shot exactly where you pointed at, instantly, across the entire map.

Even Wu can get consistent kills with the Halo 3 sniper. Even I can consistently get kills with the H3 sniper, where I tend to defer sniper duty to someone else in Reach. Although I always switched out the human one for the Beamer in Run for Cover.

In Reach anyone can snipe due to the bullet magnetism/aim assist. It doesn't help that the head boxes are ginormous. Trust us, Mr. Expert-on-everything, the Halo 3 sniper is harder to use than the Halo Reach sniper.

 

[Tawpgun]

There are several things that could be adjusted: firing rate, clip size, damage...all of which would significantly change the game and have potential unforseen negative consequences, even if thoroughly tested.

And maybe nobody here is asking to "just turn it off" (although I'm not entirely sure of that), but there's plenty on Waypoint and Bungie.net that make no qualifications for "NO BLOOM".

And comparing skirmishes in Reach to "dice rolls" is a bit hyperbolic.

Its not completely random. But a big part of it is. If I shoot someone 10 feet away first and pace my shots he can easily beat me with a quick spam instead of trying to out strafe and out aim me... The way its been for every other halo game and every other arena shooter.

 

[feel]

Nope. Asking for a weapon that is 100% accurate, fires super fast, and has a 3x scope might as well be instagib with how fast the kill times would be with that thing, because you'll be killing people in about 2 seconds flat on average.

what's wrong with you?
who's asking for this?

 

[Havok]

There are several things that could be adjusted: firing rate, clip size, damage...all of which would significantly change the game and have potential unforseen negative consequences, even if thoroughly tested.

Sure, I won't argue with that. I don't even necessarily think a bloomless Reach would be any better with the way the weapon sandbox is balanced now. But going forward it's something that needs to be thought about.

And maybe nobody here is asking to "just turn it off" (although I'm not entirely sure of that), but there's plenty on Waypoint and Bungie.net that make no qualifications for "NO BLOOM".

Then there's no reason to continue to bring it up here in literally every single argument, in response to posters that specifically say that they have qualifications for such a change. I've seen the Waypoint forums, and it's rapidly becoming bnet 2.0 in terms of post quality and people being able to explain their opinions.

And comparing skirmishes in Reach to "dice rolls" is a bit hyperbolic.

It was a hyperbolic response to a hyperbolic post, yeah. Certainly no more hyperbolic than the instagib bullshit. There's a nugget of truth there though - at close-mid range, you can either play it safe and pace, where you have a significant chance to lose to a spammer, or spam yourself and be frustrated when your shots miss. It's not a good situation either way.

 

[Risen]

And comparing skirmishes in Reach to "dice rolls" is a bit hyperbolic.

You're absolutely right... More like "fixed dice rolls from only one player's hand" - is that less exaggerated enough to drop it to a more acceptable level of metaphor?

 

[KidA Seven]

The Halo 3 sniper was hard to use? You didn't even need to lead it. It shot exactly where you pointed at, instantly, across the entire map.

Even Wu can get consistent kills with the Halo 3 sniper. Even I can consistently get kills with the H3 sniper, where I tend to defer sniper duty to someone else in Reach. Although I always switched out the human one for the Beamer in Run for Cover.

You did have to lead with the sniper since it was not hit scan. Of course, on smaller maps you wouldn't have to.

Not to mention the hit boxes seem smaller in Halo 3 compared to Reach.


Also, 2 seconds isn't that fast. You would have to get a perfect 4 shot in Halo 3 or a 5 shot with the DMR. The opposition can always strafe, or they can put their head down and run away. When they do that, players can't get their head and thus they bought themselves more time to live.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Its not completely random. But a big part of it is. If I shoot someone 10 feet away first and pace my shots he can easily beat me with a quick spam instead of trying to out strafe and out aim me... The way its been for every other halo game and every other arena shooter.

Why are you pacing your shots at "10 feet"? You should be spamming his body as fast as possible, strafe or no strafe. Pacing only comes into play when the reticle is too big for your target. You know these things, so I'm not exactly sure where you're going.

You're absolutely right... More like "fixed dice rolls from only one player's hand" - is that less exaggerated enough to drop it to a more acceptable level of metaphor?

What? It's not like dice rolling at all. If someone's spamming you and they hit your head, that's luck, and it sucks to lose to someone who got lucky, but that is a rarity...most of the time you're dying to body spam (7 fast shots).

 

[Hydranockz]

To my recollection maybe in one of every 5 matches I get the feeling someone shot faster than me and got lucky. I really don't think that level of frequency is enough to want bloom gone.

Can anyone show me a time they thought their skill should have beaten someone else's spamming? I don't doubt you, I just remember urk clarifying Rams screenshot that time.

Personally I like bloom. I don't dislike the alternatives or the previous iteration's implementation.

 

[senador]

^^^ Same. I'm trying to figure out how often this actually happens. I don't doubt it, its just not my experience if frequently losing to spammers. For some of you is it just a spammer ruining a spree every once in a while and it sticks out so much because it was a spree? Real question.

Its not completely random. But a big part of it is. If I shoot someone 10 feet away first and pace my shots he can easily beat me with a quick spam instead of trying to out strafe and out aim me... The way its been for every other halo game and every other arena shooter.

Bah I hate getting into some of these since I'm not against you, but if he is really that close then you should be spamming too I would think.

I'm sure this was just an example though and not real fact and without a clip or real incident it doesn't mean much. If so just ignore this.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Nope. Asking for a weapon that is 100% accurate, fires super fast, and has a 3x scope might as well be instagib with how fast the kill times would be with that thing, because you'll be killing people in about 2 seconds flat on average.

You are the only one talking about this. If someone is, please point them out, because I missed it. I have said many times in the past that removing bloom would leave the precision weapons far over powered and it would be detrimental to gameplay. If bloom is adjusted or removed, there needs to be other changes made to balance the removal.

Such as bullet spread and a reduced scope, for instance.

He posted an example of the pistol in Halo 2 becoming less accurate when fired quickly. That is identical to the bloom mechanic in Reach only there is no visual feedback. Clearly, it is better to have feedback. I don't see how this is an adequate response.

You are missing the nuance in this conversation. Dani's quote above directed you to it. No one is disputing that bloom existed in previous games. We are discussing the very different ways Reach handles both bloom and spread.

 

[NullPointer]

So here's a random idea for a Halo 4 Collectors Edition item that isn't just the same old statue and tiny art book throwaway crap that's all the rage.

How about a small USB powered base that plugs into your Xbox that can project a 6-8 inch tall image of Cortana. It can activate via the in-game sequences when you plug her into a console, or when she's talking via your helmet. In those moments the base would flicker to life, and you get to see and hear Cortana, right in your living room!

Seems do-able, unique, and comparable to some of the bits you'd get in a COD collector's edition.

OK, I'd buy it anyway.

 

[Ramirez]

To my recollection maybe in one of every 5 matches I get the feeling someone shot faster than me and got lucky. I really don't think that level of frequency is enough to want bloom gone.

Can anyone show me a time they thought their skill should have beaten someone else's spamming? I don't doubt you, I just remember urk clarifying Rams screenshot that time.

Personally I like bloom. I don't dislike the alternatives or the previous iteration's implementation.

lol, I felt that video as a whole pretty much summed up why bloom is garbage. My reticule could not have gotten any bigger, I was spamming in desperation, and not only do I kill a guy when I have no shields and he has full shields, I get a headshot!

It happens way too often, if I were to save a film every time I had a funny encounter with bloom, I would have reached the max file limit a long time ago.

I guess the thing I don't understand, is that even if some of you think it only happens occasionally, why do you want it to happen at all? Just a straight forward "shoot here, shot goes there, kills guy as intended" is such a more enjoyable experience.

I just don't want another mechanic added in to make killing harder, when lag already makes most games random enough. Also, none of the past games had this type of bloom system, and they were awesome, it was like change for the sake of change. Considering how terrible most of the Bungie people are, I still can't grasp how such a frustrating mechanic ever made it past the drawing board to begin with.

 

[FyreWulff]

You did have to lead with the sniper since it was not hit scan. Of course, on smaller maps you wouldn't have to.

Sniper Rifle traveled out to it's max distance in one frame. Same as the DMR and the Pistol. You are correct in that none of those weapons are hitscan, but all travel their max distance in one frame.

In Reach anyone can snipe due to the bullet magnetism/aim assist. It doesn't help that the head boxes are ginormous. Trust us, Mr. Expert-on-everything, the Halo 3 sniper is harder to use than the Halo Reach sniper.

Head boxes are same as Reach, they just changed the sorting algorithm. Plus Halo 3 also has bullet magnetism and aim assist on the shot, and I should know, because Jonnyothan corrected me on it when I said there wasn't.

 

[Hydranockz]

I'd buy that for a dollar.

Do want... only if she dances when media is played.

 

[Karl2177]

Sniper Rifle traveled out to it's max distance in one frame. Same as the DMR and the Pistol. You are correct in that none of those weapons are hitscan, but all travel their max distance in one frame.



Head boxes are same as Reach, they just changed the sorting algorithm. Plus Halo 3 also has bullet magnetism and aim assist on the shot, and I should know, because Jonnyothan corrected me on it when I said there wasn't.

I didn't say there wasn't any in 3. I should have clarified saying they are more apparent in Reach. Also, the algorithm has changed, making it easier to land headshots. My point still stands that it's easier to snipe in Reach than 3.

 

[Ramirez]

The hitbox on the back side of a Spartan's head is insane in Reach, sniping was way harder in 3, half of the shots didn't even register most of the time. I thought I already proved this when Dani said he couldn't snipe, but he already has more sniper kills in Reach than his entire Halo 3 career.

 

[The Henery]

The Halo 3 sniper was hard to use? You didn't even need to lead it. It shot exactly where you pointed at, instantly, across the entire map.

Even Wu can get consistent kills with the Halo 3 sniper. Even I can consistently get kills with the H3 sniper, where I tend to defer sniper duty to someone else in Reach. Although I always switched out the human one for the Beamer in Run for Cover.

Can you read brah? Where did I say it was hard to use?

"a reasonable amount of skill to use"

Halo 3 sniper is harder to use than the Reach one. It's certainly harder to use than the Halo 2 sniper. In Reach I play with people who could only manage a couple of headshots with the Halo 3 sniper at best; they are now racking up 10's of headshots per game. No scoping is easier in Reach. Headshot hitbox is bigger. Movement is slower.

When the next Hammer or Boom! Ball debate pops up i'll give some weight to your posts on the subject of the weapons in those playlists. I see Griffball and Action Sack are two of your three most played playlists in Reach.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Head boxes are same as Reach, they just changed the sorting algorithm. Plus Halo 3 also has bullet magnetism and aim assist on the shot, and I should know, because Jonnyothan corrected me on it when I said there wasn't.

This response is a good example of what he was pointing out about your posting style. You are at once pouncing on one small part of his post, while missing the point of it entirely. The point was sniping in Reach is easier than Halo 3. And it is. He also did not say that Halo 3 did NOT feature aim assist. He said Reach's made it easier to snipe. This is also true. (Edit: I see he's since pointed this out.)

You have an encyclopedic memory when it comes to design details that have been mentioned, but in this and the bloom/spread discussion, you are trotting them out while missing the points being made entirely.

Not trying to pick on you, but it's been very frustrating reading the conversation this morning because you zero in on one thing while missing the point of what you are responding to in the process.

 

[FyreWulff]

Whether the Halo 3 sniper is harder to use is entirely opinion, because as I stated before, I can snipe people in my sleep in Halo 3, but would rather not pick up the Reach sniper if I don't have to because I'm not as good with it. I don't know how to prove that I'm worse at it than a silly 1v1 challenge of some sort where I play someone in both Reach and 3. I have never heard anyone describe the Halo 3 sniper as hard to use or a skillful weapon to master until today.

There is nothing they added in Reach to make the sniper rifle easier to use. The magnetism, aim assist, and so on and so forth are all carried over from 3 with a slight reduction in firing speed. Neither of them have recoil, neither of them need to be led, and neither one of them has any appreciable bloom whatsoever.

Once again, if you don't like my posting style, click here.

If they want to make the sniper actually harder to use, they can add recoil. As it is, it's functionally similiar in both 3 and Reach, was exploitable with sweep snipe in Halo 2, and was more difficult to use in 1 than any of the later games, IMO.

 

[MrBig]

Fyrewulff you're ignoring facts and evidence and presenting your own side with technical evidence that you don't have the full information on.

 

[FyreWulff]

Fyrewulff you're ignoring facts and evidence and presenting your own side with technical evidence that you don't have the full information on.

Sniper Rifle: #4 ToD in Halo 3

Sniper Rifle: #12 ToD in Reach

Clearly they made it easier to use.

I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

 

[Kuroyume]

Stupid Hitmonchan for starting this stupid debate again

 

[Ramirez]

Sniper Rifle: #4 ToD in Halo 3

Sniper Rifle: #12 ToD in Reach

Clearly they made it easier to use.

I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

Comparing 6500 games to 1300 really proves your point. Not to mention if your most played playlists are AS/Grifball...SMH.

 

[MrBig]

Sniper Rifle: #4 ToD in Halo 3

Sniper Rifle: #12 ToD in Reach

Clearly they made it easier to use.

I think I'm done with this line of discussion.

By your own word you don't pick up the sniper in Reach. That's dismissive evidence.

I was shit with the sniper in Halo 3, but yet it's my #2 ToD in Reach.

Doesn't really matter what your own experience is.

 

[Domino Theory]

LMAO @ using your own playtime as evidence.

 

[FyreWulff]

By your own word you don't pick up the sniper in Reach. That's dismissive evidence.

I was shit with the sniper in Halo 3, but yet it's my #2 ToD in Reach.

Doesn't really matter what your own experience is.

I avoided it in 3 as well, and also actually played more Team Snipers in Reach than I have in 3, due to how many freaking times people voted for it during the launch window in Reach

 

[The Henery]

I have never heard anyone describe the Halo 3 sniper as hard to use or a skillful weapon to master until today.

There is nothing they added in Reach to make the sniper rifle easier to use. The magnetism, aim assist, and so on and so forth are all carried over from 3 with a slight reduction in firing speed. Neither of them have recoil, neither of them need to be led, and neither one of them has any appreciable bloom whatsoever.

Again who actually said it was hard to use? harder, sure. What exactly do you mean by a 'skillful weapon to master'? Are you saying that it took no skill to master? Or are you saying that it was hard to master but required little skill (which wouldn't make much sense)?

 

[HiredN00bs]

There is nothing they added in Reach to make the sniper rifle easier to use. The magnetism, aim assist, and so on and so forth are all carried over from 3 with a slight reduction in firing speed. Neither of them have recoil, neither of them need to be led, and neither one of them has any appreciable bloom whatsoever.

I definitely recall the Halo 3 sniper having recoil.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Are we really arguing about the damn sniper rifle now? Seriously folks?

Aye Aye Aye

 

[Gabotron ES]

So today starts the San Diego Comic con, do we expect the podcast to arrive today?

 

[Ramirez]

Are we really arguing about the damn sniper rifle now? Seriously folks?

Aye Aye Aye

I don't think it's the subject matter that is the key here, it's just that people want to punch certain posters through the internet, and they get caught up in it.

 

[Domino Theory]

I really hope they beef up the splash damage of the Rockets with the TU. :/

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Stupid Hitmonchan for starting this stupid debate again

My sentiments, exactly. The next time I see that smarmy bastard...

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Back from holidayin'. Did the thread title change back and forth in the past few days?

I really hope they beef up the splash damage of the Rockets with the TU. :/

Ditto. Zalin can back me up on the fact I was bitching about the weakness of said splash damage for the past few weeeks.

 

[feel]

So today starts the San Diego Comic con, do we expect the podcast to arrive today?

I want ANYTHING to arrive today, Halogaf was so awesome for a few days and now it's making me want to curl into fetal position on the floor and sob (again).

 

[Havok]

I really hope they beef up the splash damage of the Rockets with the TU. :/

Really? The area of effect on that thing seems incredibly huge to me. It drops off at a certain point, but it certainly seems like a larger radius than Halo 2 and 3.

Also, this just in:

Seriously? People found the H3 Sniper hard to use? Oh wait, these people don't know how to use the DMR either, that explains it.

Have a problem with something? You just don't know how to use it. Christ.

 

[FyreWulff]

I definitely recall the Halo 3 sniper having recoil.

I just fired up Halo 3 to test this again, and it's just like I remembered. It does if you're just stand still, zoom in, and pull the trigger. If you're panning in any direction though, the recoil is 99% dampened and moves your reticule like, an entire centimeter in-game-world. And since nobody is shooting at AFK players much in-game, the recoil is effectively nonexistant from being canceled out by any movement.

Don't ask me why a spartan spinning around gets less recoil than one that stands steady, but I'm not the one that made these decisions


And damnit, now I'm playing Halo 3. Let's see how the Action Sack population is.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Bloom Debate:
- I like bloom. Pacing your shots is a neat mechanic.
- I don't like giving the go-to mid-range precision weapon bloom.

Sandbox brainstorming:
AR
- Increase magazine size.
- Change bloom to expand slightly faster, but also change it to decay MUCH faster (to encourage pulsing the trigger).
DMR
- Change it into a long-range weapon, closer to the sniper rifle and no longer a spawn weapon.
- Increase scope magnification (to 4x maybe?)
- Bloom and magazine size remain unchanged.
- Treat it like a minor power weapon.
Pistol
- No bloom, no zoom. Fixed ROF.
- Unchanged damage and magazine size.
BR
- Halo 3 BR with hitscan. 2x zoom, spread, no bloom, fixed ROF.

You spawn with
BR/AR (by default),
AR/Pistol (for super casual gametypes only),
or BR/Pistol (Pro gametypes).

You never spawn with a DMR by default, it is pickup only and somewhat rare. It's the sniper-lite.
Long range: DMR>BR>>Pistol>AR
Mid-range: BR>DMR=AR>Pistol
Short range: AR>BR>Pistol>>DMR

And now, for something completely different:
Ghaleon, any thoughts on the Halo Bulletin's talk about skulls? It sounds like we won't be getting Grunt Birthday Party or any skull that changes the AI code (whatever that means).

 

[HiredN00bs]

I just fired up Halo 3 to test this again, and it's just like I remembered. It does if you're just stand still, zoom in, and pull the trigger. If you're panning in any direction though, the recoil is greatly dampened and moves your reticule like, an entire centimeter in-game-world.

Don't ask me why a spartan spinning around gets less recoil than one that stands steady, but I'm not the one that made these decisions

That's weird. Yeah, I recall playing with the weapons at one time, it didn't occur to me to think that moving would reduce the recoil.

 

[NullPointer]

@ncsuDuncan

I'd be fine with all of that. Guess I just don't get too caught up in these debates. I do like bloom as a mechanic, but like everything I guess there is a way to tune it to be more effective.