Devin Olsen
Member
So did everyone here end up getting a Grunt Plushie that wanted one? I wasn't following it on HBO after Wu put them up, so I am not sure how fas they sold out.
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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Devolution
Member
Devin Olsen said:
I wanted one =o.
BackdoorBeauty
Member
Kuroyume said:
The Librarian
Banned
Yeah, this'll be the main problem going forward. One of the reasons that I stay out of BTB is that the only two decent BTB maps Tempest and Highlands rarely show up for me.Havok said:
Deputy Moonman
Member
Not life, but the motivation to play Reach. If I love Halo and don't even want to pick up a controller, that's sad. Most people shy away from playing solo because it's so painful. But the majority of games that people play in a party are so lopsided that they shouldn't even count as a real game. So my choices are to jump into the game solo and experience very frustrating games, or play with a group where almost all the games turn into nothing more than who can rack up the most kills the quickest. Neither of those choices are very fun for me. lawl if my life depended solely on Reach... I wouldn't be alive to post on neogaf.Tunavi said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
blamite said:
Halo 3's BR fired three bullets which spread out in a cone like fashion from the point at which the gun was aiming. There was a miniscule amount of randomness to ensure that no two shots were exactly the same. This randomness would be pretty small and have no effect at short distances but the further down the firing cone you went, the more that small amount of randomness affected where the bullets landed. Since the bullets aren't going in the same direction, the further away a target was, the less likely it was for you to hit them.
For example, try hitting a player beside you in one of Valhalla's bases. Then try to hit the same player if he is standing on top of the hill whilst you are still in the base. You'd hit the player beside you every time if he's in the base but you'd be lucky to hit the same player if he's on that hill. At distance bullet travel comes into play. So you have to take into consideration if that player is moving and you have to try to predict the player's movement and lead your shots.
With the DMR you fire a single bullet. The firing cone is therefore significantly smaller. The random factor is still present and it actually increases after every shot (as indicated by the expanding reticule). That means if you fire against a player beside you, there's a higher possibility that some of your shots will miss him unless you pay attention to your rate of fire and pace your shots to stay on target.
If the same player is far away, then the DMR's hitscan will ensure you never have to lead your shots. You have more control and accuracy. As long as you pace your shots, you can successfully kill a target at range just as well as if he was standing beside you.
If you fixed the DMR's reticule, then you negate most of the effects of the bloom, so pacing your shots is no longer necessary. You'd have no control over the random element any more as it's fixed. You'd still have the ability to engage enemies at range just as easily as enemies standing beside you but the distance would have a greater effect with the random element - you'd miss slightly more often. It wouldn't emulate the BR at distances but it would bring both weapons closer in end result, but you'd have to do extensive testing to see these exact results. Additionally, you'd break the DMR at close range because the fixed bloom would lead to spamming and overall shorter kill times.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Kuroyume said:
Why not? I've justified why I came to that conclusion. I'd love to hear a proper counter-argument or an alternative solution.
Devolution
Member
Dani said:
I'll shit bricks if he answers you constructively.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Devin Olsen said:
I don't have the money for it
and I'd rather have some upcoming games.Devolution
Member
Tha Robbertster said:I don't have the money for it
Heh same. Gonna spend upwards of a couple hundred on paper alone this semester ;_;.
Devin Olsen
Member
Devo and Tha Robbertster, do you two live in the US?
Deputy Moonman
Member
I'm waiting for the Gears of War Locust plushie. ;-)Devin Olsen said:
Hypertrooper
Member
Tunavi is playing Invasion right now. lol. lol.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Devin Olsen said:
Nope, but have you heard of this awesome guy called hypertrooper? I love him!
Dani said:
Why do you condone any amount of randomness though?
If you want to make it difficult for people to ping across large distances, I would lessen the zoom distance, lessen the zoom auto aim and the distance in which that auto aim is in effect and have the bullets be projectiles so you have to lead your shots. But I would have the spread consistent.
Leading shots, without auto aim would be difficult. Difficult enough that I think it would solve the problem of people being pinged over long distances.
I would take projectiles over hitscan, because I think it is more difficult to shoot with projectiles. That is assuming the netcode is decent. If it is not, hitscan it is.
Devolution
Member
Devin Olsen said:
Yeah I'm in <arnold accent> California </accent>.
Hypertrooper
Member
So you are speaking in a austria-german accent?Devolution said:
Devolution
Member
Hypertrooper said:
I guess but even the germans/austrians I've met here don't say it like he does.
The Librarian
Banned
People choosing HaloBall over BOOM! Ball makes me
Devolution
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Just noticed this. I think honestly less people would quit out if the individual skill from previous games was brought back into the fold. As it stands right now, taking two people on simultaneously is a chore, due to AR spam by both of them, AAs, bloom, less movement, strong nades, etc etc. Couple this with just how far one can fire the DMR (especially in big team), and awful trueskill; people aren't going to be inclined to stay in a game in which they have no chance or get farmed on spawn.
thezerofire
Banned
it's not like they're mutually exclusive. Hitscan means it's instantaneous, and spread means they don't all fire exactly at the center. You don't have to lead shots (theoretically), but at long ranges not every shot is going to hit. Is it that hard to understand?Kuroyume said:
Hypertrooper
Member
So he is an Alien...Devolution said:
thezerofire
Banned
r/halo sucks at halo so I don't expect any better. they're like the cast-off bad kids from b.netSean P. said:How to play objective according to reddit:
haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJr-fHLjRn4Kuroyume said:
Devolution
Member
thezerofire said:
Big Team suffers from the range of DMR, I don't understand how int his thread we're actually arguing over this. It makes people turtle. Most games of BTB I've played involve DMRing kids on their spawn. It's especially easy on forge maps that are variants of Paradiso and Hemorrhage. Get on cliff, DMR opponents on spawn, rinse, repeat. And if they get up a vehicle? Team DMR it, it's dead, continue pinning down players. People will say that's what a good team does, but it's effectively boring and way too one sided.
BTB to me is about chaotic battles everywhere. Now it's regulated to just DMRing people from a distance. I'm sure 343 and bungie (hell it's even on bungie.net) have the stats on movement in big team maps. It wouldn't surprise me if less people were found anywhere near the middle. Now people will say oh it's stupid to be there on foot anyway. Rockets used to spawn in the center of big team maps, the plasma launcher does. Control of the center used to be a big thing. Now on something like hemorrhage you have snipes in the back (because there are points in which you can see the entire map) and DMRs on the sides. Not even vehicles can stay up for very long. What's the point of big team then? Just DMR stand offs? Fuck that. That's not big team, that's not fun.
/rant
Devolution
Member
Kuroyume said:
I wouldn't consider it all that random to just max out the range of which the DMR is effective. I'd call it necessary and fair.
thezerofire
Banned
hitscan isn't about random vs. not random. Its definition is that there is no bullet travel time. That's it. It doesn't mean anything about spread.Kuroyume said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Farooq said:
I don't condone randomness, I am merely pointing out how that randomness is applied. I do condone how bloom applies and increases randomness in terms of the DMR and the role it has within Reach.
Your suggestions are valid if they help reach the same end result, the further a player is from yourself, the harder it should be for you to hit them. With the DMR, this isn't the case and I'm comparing it with Halo 3's BR because it achieved this.
Bungie said that the Halo 3 BR was too versatile and the DMR is the response to that. I'd argue that the DMR is actually more verstile than the Halo 3 BR. Reach demonstrates how traditional BTB Halo maps are broken by the DMR and how it negatively influences the gameplay - see Hemorrage.
Kuroyume said:
Bullet spread is how far the bullets spread apart over distances when fired. Hitscan obviously doesn't have any bullet travelling as it's instant. My suggested combination of both would be a system that simulates and calculates and applies a spread but delivers the damages instantly.
It would would function similarly to Halo 3's BR in almost every way except there would be no need to lead shots. Leading your shots was a practice designed to compensate for the time it took your bullets to travel from your gun to the enemy and with hitscan that is not needed.
So being hitscan, like Reach's DMR, it would work better over poor connections.
Devolution
Member
Kuroyume said:
No one wants hitscan gone, they want a range spread on the DMR. You can have both.
thezerofire
Banned
That's right. Here's my best way of explaining it. Imagine there was no bloom (yet). Your DMR is hitscan, and there is no spread. You hit literally whatever you shoot. Now there is bloom. As you fire, the area where your bullets can go increases, so you don't always shoot whatever you're aiming at. But it still hits that point instantaneously, because the DMR is a hitscan weapon. Hitscan only describes the travel time of the bullet.Kuroyume said:
Yes, I get all that. My point is that Dani wants a DMR with H3 spread/H2 hitscan where as I want a bloomless DMR with hitscan. I don't want a spread. I have a general understanding of the system it's just that as far as I'm aware if I take one shot with a bloomless DMR there is no spread right?
I feel like I had a good understanding of this and now I'm confused.
I feel like I had a good understanding of this and now I'm confused.
thezerofire
Banned
I don't know when I said anything like that at all. We're basically all advocating the Halo 2 BR with less aim magnetism. I was just explaining how hitscan vs. spread works, using Reach. Didn't mention Halo 2 at all.Striker said:
That's right. People here are saying that they want a 2x scope on the DMR to limit range. That's one way of doing it.Kuroyume said:
What you and Dani want isn't all that different. Both of you want weapons with hitscan. That's not really the issue here. I don't think anyone is really saying to get rid of hitscan. What we're saying is to put a spread on the gun so there's a limit on its range, since at present you can shoot all the way across BTB maps, so you can't really move around as well. When there's spread at long range it makes people get closer to each other.
Devolution
Member
Striker said:
People don't want a spread specifically on the burst, they want a spread on the distance it's fired at. At least that's how I feel about it.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Kuroyume said:
A DMR, especially a bloomless DMR, has too much range and I'd like to see that range limited. I still want the weapon to be effective but not able to accurately kill someone from one end of the map to the other.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Farooq said:
That randomness was only issue at range and thus the BR's range and accuracy was acceptable. I don't think the DMR's range and accuracy is currently unacceptable.
Dani said:
So you do condone randomness...lol.
Even if it is only applicable over vast distances. I understand your argument.
But if we were going to design a game from scratch, I would rather curb long distance dominance of the utility weapon by requiring more dexterity from the user, than instituting a spread mechanic.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Dani said:
I don't know if it was the TVs I was playing on at Halo Fest or any other external factor, but I noticed reduced magnetism and a little more kickback than usual on the bloomless DMR. I could've been seeing things, though.
My guess is another rate of fire cap will be put on these weapons once bloom is removed.