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[Tawpgun]

Considering that you don't play as the Chief or even a Spartan II should have been enough to tell you that it wasn't going to be standard Halo.

I wasn't expecting 3.5 if that's what you're getting at. But considering its still set up like a Halo game I would have thought they'd at least keep some core things the same...

I'm talking if they were to do something far more tactical. Maybe 3rd person. Battlefield like, something of that sort. They would market it differently as far as MP goes.

 

[The Librarian]

Considering that you don't play as the Chief or even a Spartan II should have been enough to tell you that it wasn't going to be standard Halo.

Well, neither was ODST but that still felt like a Halo game.

 

[erpg]

It could be an XP system that rewards you as you progress. Could mean any number of things.

A Call of Duty/Space Marine XP system would be a great replacement for cR.

Per-weapon challenges, levels that aren't completely unnatainable, armor unlocks based on achievements like 'get 250 headshots with a sniper rifle' as opposed to 'attain 760,000 cR.'

CoD does a great job at pushing people to play more, play better, and play differently. Halo, as we've sadly learned, is about objective holding to maximize payout.

 

[Tawpgun]

Well, neither was ODST but that still felt like a Halo game.

It never had you playing as an ODST in MP, where the changes are really felt. But even if it did, it's clear you're not a Spartan, regardless of what kind of Spartan.

It was marketed from the beginning as you're slower, weaker, smaller etc.

Spartan III's were marketed as just as badass as Spartan II's. Only the hardcore fans knew they were inferior.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Well, I did the Heroic Campaign run in one sitting yesterday, didn't pause, didn't skip any cinematic scenes, didn't skip any encounters, almost always cleared out all enemies before proceeding, and even gave a good attempt at staying alive on Love Wolf: 5 hours, 13 minutes.

Is it not possible to save or render the opening cinematic scene, Noble Actual?

 

[Tawpgun]

A Call of Duty/Space Marine XP system would be a great replacement for cR.

Per-weapon challenges, levels that aren't completely unnatainable, armor unlocks based on achievements like 'get 250 headshots with a sniper rifle' as opposed to 'attain 760,000 cR.'

CoD does a great job at pushing people to play more, play better, and play differently. Halo, as we've sadly learned, is about objective holding to maximize payout.

I'm glad Reach doesn't encourage "playing differently" You should play the way you're best at. Feel free to mix it up, but don't get incentive for doing so. You should get rewarded for winning, MVP, and getting objectives.

Winners should get a MUUUUUCCCCHHH bigger payout than the losers.

And the reason I said that is because some of the Reach challenges give players incentive to play in one specific way. Grenade/Assist/Revenge/Jetpack challenges are super annoying. The game turns into more nade spamming than usual, not finishing kills, letting people kill you, and JETPACKS EVERYWHERE.

 

[Ken]

And the reason I said that is because some of the Reach challenges give players incentive to play in one specific way. Grenade/Assist/Revenge/Jetpack challenges are super annoying. The game turns into more nade spamming than usual, not finishing kills, letting people kill you, and JETPACKS EVERYWHERE.

Challenges and achievements should never have players playing in a degenerative manner in a multiplayer environment.

 

[Homeboyd]

Challenges and achievements should never have players playing in a degenerative manner in a multiplayer environment.

I'm convinced this is the reason you've seen assist challenges drop to near extinction-levels. Especially in multiplayer MM.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I'm convinced this is the reason you've seen assist challenges drop to near extinction-levels. Especially in multiplayer MM.

I like your avatar lol

 

[Tawpgun]

I like your avatar lol

Bullets would be better on the bottom.

They tend to hit the bottom half of the reticle for some reason

Bloom Pro Tips. It just helps when you're spamming someone to aim a little above their head.

 

[Homeboyd]

Heh, Devo did it for me. I put in a few more :lolrequests.

 

[erpg]

I think there's a pretty big difference in how people will approach a global account challenge for assists (think commendations actually giving decent bonuses like armor instead of 1000 cR) and a 24 hour assist credit payout.

 

[squidhands]

Challenges and achievements should never have players playing in a degenerative manner in a multiplayer environment.

Lifeguard - Earn 7 Protector Medals in Multiplayer Matchmaking today - 5000Cr

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Every bullet the AR shoots is like a nuke. It's the best weapon in all of the Haloez. All hail the Assault Rifle.

Hooray!!

1. To the unwashed masses, it hasn't really changed a whole lot, save perhaps Reach.
2. Does that sound fun to develop? Here guys, just make the same game in the updated engine, some new models, done, ship it. The challenge is to try something new (like 343 I think are doing) but still stay true to however they classify Halo gameplay.

It may keep CoD fans happy, but I for one would be annoyed if I was buying the same game with an updated skin every year.

I understand what you're saying, but still there are a lot of changes that can be made without significantly altering kill times and hitscan. If you just go with hitscan, which has never been unpopular, it's one less thing that developers need to spend time on. Then they can focus on weapon balance and variety, being crazy with the campaign and story, the look of the game, matchmaking maps, forge, theater, and everything else. It doesn't have to be the same game. But it does seem like a lot of time is spent on trying to do new things with the shooting mechanics, and they always seem mostly unnecessary to me.

However, I'm one of those people who would have been perfectly content with a Halo:CE-part 2, or a Halo2-part 2, only with revised graphics, new maps, and a cool new campaign. I like change, but at the same time change simply for the sake of change I don't like. I'm still bummed that I didn't get a super mario 64-part 2 game and instead ended up with mario sunshine. ewwww.

 

[Homeboyd]

Lifeguard - Earn 7 Protector Medals in Multiplayer Matchmaking today - 5000Cr

He's onto something here guys...

 

[kylej]

http://www.twitch.tv/ryanoob

How the mighty have fallen, T2 teaming with randoms like Aries Carries, Frosty and Sneak E beaver.

Jesus christ. I'll never forget this 1v1 with old Neighbor in his prime v Frosty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y4OJQ0bXSQ

So embarrassing. Hope T2 put away that Dr. Pepper money.

 

[Havok]

Per-weapon challenges, levels that aren't completely unnatainable, armor unlocks based on achievements like 'get 250 headshots with a sniper rifle' as opposed to 'attain 760,000 cR.'

What? No. Per-weapon progression rewards work in Call of Duty because you spawn with whatever. Do you really want to get betrayed for sniper even more than what happens now because some kid is being encouraged to pad his stats? Did you like the asinine multiplayer achievements in Halo 3? Do you like challenges that make your randoms even more useless than usual?

A progression system should be in place to reward how you already play a game, not to influence the behavior of the player, especially not in a focused, weapon-pickup team shooter. It just validates all the assholes camping for kills, or only using stickies for the daily challenge. It's a lesson that Bungie said they learned with Halo 3, apparently didn't learn in time for Reach's challenges, and had better have learned if they're doing an MMO.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

COD's Worst offense is that its influencing other game designers to make poor choices so their games will sell more.

That and all the positive reinforcement that goes on in that game

die lots of time, get a reward.

camp and get kills, here is your kill streak.

25 kills an objective game, PROBLEM PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY OBJECTIVE?

 

[kylej]

COD's Worst offense is that its influencing other game designers to make poor choices so their games will sell more.

That and all the positive reinforcement that goes on in that game

COD is fun as hell to play. If Bungie didn't half-ass everything in Reach and actually analyzed what made COD great, Reach would've been a better game. More player choice and a better reward system aren't exactly terrible things for games to have.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Kind of random but do you know what I want to see in Halo MP wise? Loot!

Basically hats in TF2 but for armor pieces. Obviously also have some armor unlocks with Achievements, rank and other methods too.

 

[Karl2177]

What? No. Per-weapon progression rewards work in Call of Duty because you spawn with whatever. Do you really want to get betrayed for sniper even more than what happens now because some kid is being encouraged to pad his stats? Did you like the asinine multiplayer achievements in Halo 3? Do you like challenges that make your randoms even more useless than usual?

A progression system should be in place to reward how you already play a game, not to influence the behavior of the player, especially not in a focused, weapon-pickup team shooter. It just validates all the assholes camping for kills, or only using stickies for the daily challenge. It's a lesson that Bungie said they learned with Halo 3, apparently didn't learn in time for Reach's challenges, and had better have learned if they're doing an MMO.

Personally, I'd like a per weapon commendation system. That's one of the issues I have with the commendation system. We have such a wide range of things to do in the game, yet we only have commendations for 45 of them, many of which overlap between Multiplayer, Firefight, and Campaign. I'd love to see those go in depth, and have no limit. If they are limitless, you can look at them and say "Hey, this person has 3000 AR kills, I know what to probably expect from them."

 

[GhaleonEB]

A Call of Duty/Space Marine XP system would be a great replacement for cR.

Per-weapon challenges, levels that aren't completely unnatainable, armor unlocks based on achievements like 'get 250 headshots with a sniper rifle' as opposed to 'attain 760,000 cR.'

Reach's system was smart to avoid this trap. If you have that kind of goal, the fight will be over the sniper rifle - on your own team. With a goal for 'headshots', it influences the game types and playlists to select to play. SWAT? BTB? But once in that game, you're not killing your team mates for weapons.

One of the critiques of the Commendation and Challenge systems is how they can alter player behavior by shifting incentives. I think it does a pretty good job of avoiding those things, for the most part. (None for objectives, for instance.) But dropping in a per-weapon, rather than weapon class or style, goal would do enormous damage to player motivations. Like Havok said, if you think you're getting betrayed for sniper now, imagine if everyone on your team would get a reward for doing so.

Using a universal cR system frees players up to progress how they want. I've done it mostly on the back of Firefight. However, there is a per-game mode system in Commendations, which could be expanded upon.

 

[Tawpgun]

I hope Waypoint has plans to become a similar (but free) service like CoD Elite. Because looking at CoD Elite it has amazing ideas.

As far as CoD influences... not sure what I would want besides a theater 2.0.

Maybe customizing weapons? I dunno... Aesthetics of course, but I don't really want to see pink DMR's everywhere. Perhaps if there was an option to turn it off.

Something like a Spec Ops mode would be cool.

60 FPS would be nice I guess.

Still debating if cooking grenades would be good for Halo. Leaning towards no. But different grenade types (map pick ups of course.

 

[erpg]

What? No. Per-weapon progression rewards work in Call of Duty because you spawn with whatever. Do you really want to get betrayed for sniper even more than what happens now because some kid is being encouraged to pad his stats? Did you like the asinine multiplayer achievements in Halo 3? Do you like challenges that make your randoms even more useless than usual?

A progression system should be in place to reward how you already play a game, not to influence the behavior of the player, especially not in a focused, weapon-pickup team shooter. It just validates all the assholes camping for kills, or only using stickies for the daily challenge. It's a lesson that Bungie said they learned with Halo 3, apparently didn't learn in time for Reach's challenges, and had better have learned if they're doing an MMO.

What? Have the "Sidearm" or "Read Admiral" Commendations in Reach affected how people play matchmaking games? Not in my experience. Per weapon challenges wouldn't have to give substantial bonuses in any way, and ideally, there would never be an achievement tied to any of them.

But challenges (commendations) like "Multikill", "Jack of All Trades", "Any Spree", "Assistant" could easily offer a larger payout than what they currently do. Like customization options. A system I'd like to see is weapon challenges earning exp payouts at increasing amounts (50, 100...and then repeating every 500/X after a certain point) to purchase customization that you want. And then some more prestigious items appearing in challenge trees (driver/passenger challenge for kills, assists, multikills, sprees etc). Weapon challenge payouts could buy these out too at a cost.

EXP ranks would disappear, skill ranking would return, and customization would be based on personal preference (rewarding those who use a shotgun and much as those who would use a pistol) as opposed to a display of time spent/games played.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

Nothing is worse than Enclosed. Period.

Would rather play Headhunter on Two Boxes.

And you can fly out of the map with jetpack and hide on a spot under a mancannon which is really hard to get to. I hope 343 will fix this because it can get really anoying in Arena for example.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What? Have the "Sidearm" or "Read Admiral" Commendations in Reach affected how people play matchmaking games? Not in my experience. Per weapon challenges wouldn't have to give substantial bonuses in any way, and ideally, there would never be an achievement tied to any of them.

You can spawn with the ability to do both (Magnum and assassinations), which makes this kind of Commendation fine. If you assign this to power weaopns - say, the sniper rifle - players will fight over it. Even players on the same team. The game does not need this kind of motivation.

Note there is not a Commendation for Ordnance weapons (rockets, laser, plasma launcher, etc.) for Multiplayer, but there is in Firefight. That's because you can spawn with one in Firefight, rather than fight over them. Again, the designer knew to avoid this pitfall in Multiplayer.

 

[erpg]

You can spawn with the ability to do both (Magnum and assassinations), which makes this kind of Commendation fine. If you assign this to power weaopns - say, the sniper rifle - players will fight over it. Even players on the same team. The game does not need this kind of motivation.

Note there is not a Commendation for Ordnance weapons (rockets, laser, plasma launcher, etc.) for Multiplayer, but there is in Firefight. That's because you can spawn with one in Firefight, rather than fight over them. Again, the designer knew to avoid this pitfall in Multiplayer.

Heavy Weapon? I do get that making it specific would be a problem, especially since they don't always appear on maps, so weapon class EXP rewards might be best in my example.

The difference being that the commendations a generalized to weapon classes, so there are many of each class to choose from placed on the map. Precision works because the DMR and NR are grouped in with the sniper. Specify which and you will have betrayals, no question, because you're actively rewarding them to do so (your example was that there would be an achievement or substantial reward for this behavior, not sure why you're claiming otherwise). Sidearm is a bad example, because you spawn with one, its not a map pickup, which would be a problem otherwise because it is specific and thus limited. Look at specific daily challenges: on sticky days, that's all people do and they'll vote hard for Elite Slayer, assist days they stop firing after four shots. You might not see it happen, but you have to assume as a designer that there are terrible, awful people playing your game. It happens.

And yes, I've seen people get angry because they were trying to pad their Rear Admiral and Wheelman. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Edit: with your post above, I don't see how that's any different than current Commendations other than increased rewards for milestones, which still becomes tricky in non-MP settings (in the case of the MP Inheritor rushes early this year, it's applicable to multiplayer as well).

I definitely did backpedal on the sniper thing, especially since I know I'd never get if even if I spawned with one. Perhaps some outlying challenge rewards, like sniper headshots, or splatters, would be best used grouped into Firefight and Campaign rewards (similar to how Waypoint armor pieces are).

People will attempt to break the system no matter what, as we can see from Target Locator kills in campaign. I guess the big thing is that none of the rewards will be completely unattainable or behind a massive increasing time sink (like commendations like Mobile Asset and ranks currently are). And at the final repeating EXP point, there's always a reachable, rewarding goal to achieve. Which is what Commendations currently do not offer (and we were initially going on about CoD positive reinforcement).

 

[Havok]

What? Have the "Sidearm" or "Read Admiral" Commendations in Reach affected how people play matchmaking games? Not in my experience. Per weapon challenges wouldn't have to give substantial bonuses in any way, and ideally, there would never be an achievement tied to any of them.

The difference being that the commendations a generalized to weapon classes, so there are many of each class to choose from placed on the map. Precision works because the DMR and NR are grouped in with the sniper. Specify which and you will have betrayals, no question, because you're actively rewarding them to do so (your example was that there would be an achievement or substantial reward for this behavior, not sure why you're claiming otherwise). Sidearm is a bad example, because you spawn with one, its not a map pickup, which would be a problem otherwise because it is specific and thus limited. Look at specific daily challenges: on sticky days, that's all people do and they'll vote hard for Elite Slayer, assist days they stop firing after four shots. You might not see it happen, but you have to assume as a designer that there are terrible, awful people playing your game. It happens.

And yes, I've seen people get angry because they were trying to pad their Rear Admiral and Wheelman. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Edit: with your post above, I don't see how that's any different than current Commendations other than increased rewards for milestones, which still becomes tricky in non-MP settings (in the case of the MP Inheritor rushes early this year, it's applicable to multiplayer as well).

 

[Homeboyd]

Like Havok said, if you think you're getting betrayed for sniper now, imagine if everyone on your team would get a reward for doing so.

Friendly Fire options may help combat this. I certainly understand the usefulness of having FF off (making sure you're aware of your surroundings before you lob grenades/shoot rockets) but it seems to be causing more problems than it's worth. With FF off, first to the sniper wins. Altering the max run time will allow for new ones to spawn eventually if one person decides to grab it and hide without firing.

Re: Commendations/Challenge meters: As long as there are visible progression bars with rewards associated with reaching certain levels, we will always have the problem of someone going into a game to 'finish off that level of the progression bar.' Assigning these types of progression bars to every single combat related event in Halo is the issue. If, like Squid mentioned earlier (in a half joking manner, I presume), the bars counted only towards things that helped your team and the flow of gameplay without easily being exploited in a routine encounter, it might be somewhat beneficial.

Whether the reward is armor, cR, titles, ranks, whatever.. if there is a visible progression bar people can look at and say "ok, I need X more Y to get Z reward" you'll never escape it having an affect on gameplay. Just depends on whether you think it's having an overwhelming negative affect on gameplay as it stands now.

 

[thezerofire]

Jesus christ. I'll never forget this 1v1 with old Neighbor in his prime v Frosty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y4OJQ0bXSQ

So embarrassing. Hope T2 put away that Dr. Pepper money.

I don't think I've ever seen Neighbor play that well in a tournament though. He always seems to choke when there's money on the line.

 

[feel]

I hope they drop a tiny bit of tgs media early so it stops all this very depressing Reach mp talk.


In that COD bit, I hope Frank is referring to the aspect of people being able to play exactly what they want to play on the maps they want to play with the weapons they want to play. Halo for years has always lacked this, online multiplayer is always fighting against you constantly making you spend time playing stuff you don't want to. Halo online needs a reimagining, it could and should be so much better and more satisfying for the user. Matchmaking preference besides the usual skill, conection, etc stuff should let me cross off maps, weapon starts and gametypes I don't want to play and then search for something that it's sure I will like. Enough with wasting my time with crap.

 

[Gui_PT]

I hope they drop a tiny bit of tgs media early so it stops all this very depressing Reach mp talk.

Oh my friend. That will never stop, even after the TU.

 

[PooBone]

here's that angry fat chick's message I promised a month ago.

http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/as95nmxwy4/img_0003.mp3 warning bad language!!!!!!

so good

LOL!

 

[PooBone]

I hope they drop a tiny bit of tgs media early so it stops all this very depressing Reach mp talk.

I could go for some fiction/single player/updates/future of Halo talk anytime, but this thread gets dominated by MP.

 

[thezerofire]

Oh my friend. That will never stop, even after the TU.

BELI343

 

[Tunavi]

I won't lie, ever since I've been pacing my AR shots at a distance, its been a lot more fun of a weapon to use. That thing can be deadly accurate.

But it still sucks when someone rushes you at close range spamming the AR. Because who ever starts shooting first wins. Ugh.

 

[Gui_PT]

BELI343

BELI343

 

[Tha Robbertster]

So tomorow is the one year anniversery of Reach...

Never would have thought we'd be in this state one year ago. Funny how things can go.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

So tomorow is the one year anniversery of Reach...

Never would have thought we'd be in this state one year ago. Funny how things can go.

Yeah Facebook told me that one year ago I posted a message about having Reach in my hands.

Game turned out pretty damn good.

 

[Nollemaster]

So tomorow is the one year anniversery of Reach...

Never would have thought we'd be in this state one year ago. Funny how things can go.

Reach was much better back in the day, when no one was whining about these little things. I still like Reach the way it is now, but the community has pretty much ruined it for me.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Note there is not a Commendation for Ordnance weapons (rockets, laser, plasma launcher, etc.) for Multiplayer, but there is in Firefight. That's because you can spawn with one in Firefight, rather than fight over them. Again, the designer knew to avoid this pitfall in Multiplayer.

Heavy Weapon
Kill an enemy with a heavy weapon in multiplayer matchmaking.

 

[Hypertrooper]

So tomorow is the one year anniversery of Reach...

Never would have thought we'd be in this state one year ago. Funny how things can go.

lol. Didn't people complain a lot about Halo 3? I remember only the german conversation about it. Reach is a great game. Better than MW2, BFBC2, Mario Kart DS, Crysis 2. And I still love.(But you can compare it as a one-side love relationship, because I know Reach hates me. ) But I can't wait for Anniversary and the Title Update. I guess my relationship will change then.

I hope they drop a tiny bit of tgs media early so it stops all this very depressing Reach mp talk.

I'm going to bet with you: We will get IT tomorrow, because of Reach's anniversary.

 

[thezerofire]

Yeah Facebook told me that one year ago I posted a message about having Reach in my hands.

Game turned out pretty damn good.

Right after launch my friends and I were raving about it, while one person I know said it sucked and didn't play much. How things have changed.

 

[Devin Olsen]

So goatrope and I are making a tricking website as some of you know. Now the issue we are having is coming up with a name for the website.

If you can think of a name that we would end up using for the website you will win a Grunt Plushie!

Rules:

• Open to US and Canadian Residents only
• The domain name MUST be available (.com, .ca, .org)

Please E-Mail me with name's. Have the title of the Email "Grunt Giveaway - Website Name" and include your GAF tag too.

DevinOlsen@Gmail.com

Good Luck!

Special Thanks to Louis Wu for helping out with the shipping of the Grunt!

 

[feel]

Oh my friend. That will never stop, even after the TU.

It won't be as depressing to talk about it when the game at least has some decent stuff to play in Matchmaking and people can just ignore the bad stuff. There's absolutely NOTHING good in Reach's Matchmaking today IMO, just some bearable stuff at best.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Heavy Weapon
Kill an enemy with a heavy weapon in multiplayer matchmaking.

Hah. Shows how much time I spent looking at MP Commendations (I was going to but had to run to work.) :lol

That's actually an example of a poor choice for Commendation, though at least with Action Sack, there is an outlet for people to get them easily now. There are also Challenges for ordnance in MP, which can be problematic.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

lol. Didn't people complain a lot about Halo 3? I remember only the german conversation about it. Reach is a great game. Better than MW2, BFBC2, Mario Kart DS, Crysis 2. And I still love.(But you can compare it as a one-side love relationship, because I know Reach hates me. ) But I can't wait for Anniversary and the Title Update. I guess my relationship will change then.

I guess they did, but I wasn't around seeing that happen, nor did I see any hype for Halo 3 back in the days in person so it's funny to see some of the opions change so much.

I personally have my problems with Reach, but I don't ''hate'' it half as much as most people seem to make it look. I

 

[Gui_PT]

It won't be as depressing to talk about it when the game at least has some decent stuff to play in Matchmaking and people can just ignore the bad stuff. There's absolutely NOTHING good in Reach's Matchmaking today IMO, just some bearable stuff at best.

I think it'll be exactly the same in terms of complaining, IMO.

Honestly, the game got better for me with time. In the first few months I'd just play for the challenges and those things would piss me off. I'd rage like crazy while trying to get them (ask Barrow, I bet he remembers) but when I got the internship, I started playing just for fun and with a decent team of friends, which was a lot more satisfying and much less range inducing.

Sure this game has big problems but playing with a group of friends (that mostly want to have fun) is great

 

[HiredN00bs]

Hah. Shows how much time I spent looking at MP Commendations (I was going to but had to run to work.) :lol

That's actually an example of a poor choice for Commendation, though at least with Action Sack, there is an outlet for people to get them easily now. There are also Challenges for ordnance in MP, which can be problematic.

Yeah, I'm grinding them out in Action Sack; got about 2,000 to go to Onyx. I genuinely enjoy playing BOOM! Ball, Splockets, and Dino Blasters, though, so maybe grind is the wrong word.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

I hope Waypoint has plans to become a similar (but free) service like CoD Elite. Because looking at CoD Elite it has amazing ideas.

As far as CoD influences... not sure what I would want besides a theater 2.0.

Maybe customizing weapons? I dunno... Aesthetics of course, but I don't really want to see pink DMR's everywhere. Perhaps if there was an option to turn it off.

Something like a Spec Ops mode would be cool.

60 FPS would be nice I guess.

Still debating if cooking grenades would be good for Halo. Leaning towards no. But different grenade types (map pick ups of course.

60fps only if it doesn't take away from the great awesome look of Halo.