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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come

orznge

Banned
Has there been any confirmation yet as to whether player inertia is being touched at all or has even been acknowledged as a thing that exists?
 

blamite

Member
eeblogue said:
85% bloom will just make it so that the fastest rate of firing (spamming) will be the optimal ROF in more situations and over a greater distance.
Is there any footage showing exactly how far the reticle expands at 85$ bloom? I'm imagining it extending to the edge of the thick circle, which sounds good enough for me.
 
orznge said:
Has there been any confirmation yet as to whether player inertia is being touched at all or has even been acknowledged as a thing that exists?

Not being touched in the TU. The changes list is the complete list for the TU.
 
I think player inertia is deeply tied to the animation system, something you can't change with a 4MB patch and would anyway take a huge amount of work, money, time, etc
I may be wrong though
 

Farooq

Banned
i nerini del buio said:
I think player inertia is deeply tied to the animation system, something you can't change with a 4MB patch and would anyway take a huge amount of work, money, time, etc
I may be wrong though

That would suck.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Fuck.

Fuck.

Fuck.

I was on the fence about Gears 3 at launch.

I saw the OT on GAF.

MUST BUY DAY 1

Then I see this.

And I'm back on the fence.
 

blamite

Member
i nerini del buio said:
I think player inertia is deeply tied to the animation system, something you can't change with a 4MB patch and would anyway take a huge amount of work, money, time, etc
I may be wrong though
Also I'm pretty sure .maps are involved somehow.
:p

I am hoping that's something they can change later, though, if a second TU ever happens. That Headlong B-roll reminded me that the Gauss hog should probably be nerfed somehow, probably by reducing the ROF.
 
A27 Tawpgun said:
Fuck.

Fuck.

Fuck.

I was on the fence about Gears 3 at launch.

I saw the OT on GAF.

MUST BUY DAY 1

Then I see this.

And I'm back on the fence.

I already pulled the Gears trigger yesterday lol.

Fuck it, good games are good games, it'll be fun.
 
The Real Napsta said:
After two mediocre Gears games, I don't really see that as a problem.
I take it that you didn't play the Gears 3 Beta... BUT to each his own. Don't wanna devolve this thread into a Gears 3 smackdown. ;)
 

stephen08

Member
Devolution said:
Some of the debate last night kind of got to me, particular the part about "constructive" criticism. I'd like to defend the people, like myself, who like Reach less than previous Halos for a second in a way that some of them probably can't articulate, not to be crude/elitist but it just comes with the territory of going through design/art school for years now.

The design philosophy of Reach alludes me. I've never been told or linked a real answer as to why the fundamental core from previous games necessitated such big changes. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect consistency in a series, particularly with elements in Halo that work. In all design, there is always the constant question "WHY?", if you cannot justify an element with an answer, simply put it needs to go or change. As a great game design team, I don't think Bungie just throws stuff in for shits and giggles. So all the time I'm left wondering, what is the philosophy, what is the thought process that lead them to conclude the previous games got movement, jumping, shooting, strafing, etc wrong. And maybe that's the wrong thought process about it, but why not stick with tried and true, then add things that compliment it, instead of take a wrecking ball to it.

People tend to ask of us why don't you like Reach? I would think compared to previous iterations the answers are obvious. And it makes it a chore to explain just why AAs, restrictive movement, and even more aim assist instill displeasure. Especially in the context of the previous games. Reach would have probably garnered a better and more appreciative audience as a stand alone game. As it stands, many people who played through all previous versions are left wondering why Reach is at it is, and I don't think they've ever really got a definitive answer. (If there is please link me to it.) Mostly all I've seen is conjecture about Sage taking over or the other games being flukes. Which I mostly don't buy because a) there was a whole design team behind this and b) as mentioned earlier every design decision has to be justified.

On that note, if Frankie or Ellis will humor me, (and this was answered a little bit at some of the Halofest panels), what has been your design philosophy in reversing/altering many of the elements in Reach?

I think the design decisions mad with Reach were done so to make the game play better than past incarnations. Whether or not that's the case is obviously debatable. It's not hard to see the logic made in each decision. Obviously this is just speculation on my part.

In each Halo game Bungie has made an effort to have other non-power weapons be able to compete with the utility weapon. The 3SK of the pistol shifted to 4SK with the BR of Halo 2 which turned in to a defacto 5SK with the spread of the H3 BR. People disliked the randomness that was inherent to each shot with that system. So that element was kept but with the ability to have a level of control over it.

In Halo 3 Bungie sought to mix up combat with Equipment becoming a new tool in the sandbox. The problem was that it was a 1 shot deal and if someone had equipment and you didn't you were at a severe disadvantage. With Armor Abilities equipment became something each player had and could use reliably.

Part of the design philosophy with Reach seemed to be to bring it back to it's roots somewhat. I believe Halo CE influenced the stronger grenades, health system, fall damage, and reduction in jump height.

Vehicle health was added I believe in response to seemingly unstoppable Warthogs of Halo 3. I remember many a time sticking a Hog on Standoff only for the driver and gunner to survive and return later with full shields. There was no penalty for riding in, taking a bunch of damage so long as you made it out alive despite the vehicle looking as if it had taken damage.

I think those are all the major controversial changes. Again, I'm not saying it worked out but to say Bungie added stuff for "shits and giggles" or deliberately took a hatchet to what worked before is selling them very short as a developer. The pieces are all there.

I'm glad Reach exists, even if I hated some of the changes like you guys did it represents a developer iterating and being bold enough to introduce new gameplay ideas to an established franchise. That's something Halo fans take for granted I think.

Close us out Luke Timmins!
 
-Yeti said:
I take it that you didn't play the Gears 3 Beta... BUT to each his own. Don't wanna devolve this thread into a Gears 3 smackdown. ;)

No I did, it was Gears + bloom.

It's just not my game. I guess I could play first person gears by setting movement to 50% and spawn everyone with shotguns and evade.
 

feel

Member
Just got home and read the Bulletin.. SMH

Very disappointed in seeing 343i handing the beta playlists in bungie's shitty grab-bag style, and not including Classic gameplay at all. I'll download the zeroBloom gametype and try the DMR in a custom game. Though I'm already guessing there won't be playlists with DMR starts and classic fast gameplay without AAs, just 3SK pistols, so why bother.. sigh

Headlong looks beautiful.
 
The Real Napsta said:
No I did, it was Gears + bloom.

It's just not my game. I guess I could play first person gears by setting movement to 50% and spawn everyone with shotguns and evade.
That reminds me about a time where someone from Gaf was calling the shotgun/evade combo "Gears Mode", or something along those lines. :lol
 

orznge

Banned
i nerini del buio said:
I think player inertia is deeply tied to the animation system, something you can't change with a 4MB patch and would anyway take a huge amount of work, money, time, etc
I may be wrong though

What makes you think that?
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
vhfive said:
yup there is only one game you need to buy day one this fall

SKYRIM
Naw, after Deus Ex, I've learned my lesson: wait two weeks and get the game for $40. The only games I'm buying day one in the future are Halo games.
And maybe Destiny, whenever the hell that comes out.

I've also started buying old classics that I've missed out on. It helps me ignore the wait for future games.
 

orznge

Banned
Oh yeah this is probably a dumb question because I'm guessing it has been answered but when you install the CEA maps to your hard drive are you able to play the CEA playlists through the Reach disc or do you still need to use the CEA disc for that?
 

neoism

Member
FyreWulff said:
Hopefully there's Forge pieces that let us reconstruct the 7th Column statue for customs.

still glad bungle has the 7th column still seems weird with out it... :/ breakneck looks awesome though.
 

Ramirez

Member
Dani said:

While hilarious, lets not kid ourselves, 90% of the people in that thread telling him to man up would probably be just as much of a pussy as him if the roles were reversed. Oh internets...

Very disappointed in seeing 343i handing the beta playlists in bungie's shitty grab-bag style, and not including Classic gameplay at all. I'll download the zeroBloom gametype and try the DMR in a custom game. Though I'm already guessing there won't be playlists with DMR starts and classic fast gameplay without AAs, just 3SK pistols, so why bother.. sigh

Sucks, but expected. As much as I want a no bloom playlist, I could tell from Halo Fest that it probably wouldn't happen once NBS was cited as an "extreme" showcase of what the TU could do. Pretty sure NBS still had sprint as well, which I also don't want. I'd love to be wrong, maybe if I can convince the majority of the people in the beta hoppers to always select it when it pops up. :p

I'm far more interested in people's reactions about 85% bloom, it still annoyed me at times over LAN, so I can't see it being a sweet spot online.
 

Booshka

Member
-Yeti said:
That reminds me about a time where someone from Gaf was calling the shotgun/evade combo "Gears Mode", or something along those lines. :lol
Tawpgun was running that combo and got a shotgun spree in one of the GAF customs we played, so I called it "Gears mode." Tawpgun may have said it himself when he was doing it, I was on the other team watching him own my team.
 
orznge said:
Oh yeah this is probably a dumb question because I'm guessing it has been answered but when you install the CEA maps to your hard drive are you able to play the CEA playlists through the Reach disc or do you still need to use the CEA disc for that?
They said how its going to work at Halo Fest, I can't remember though. It's either that, or the other way around.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Gears gameplay is by far the most unique gameplay I've ever encountered in a shooter.

I'm also one of the few that actually like the story. Gears has a much much much much better sense of desperation than Reach ever did.

Still on the fence about launch day Gears...

I love you TU, but you ruined my plans with your awesome.

Oh wow. Gears 3 took Halo's skull idea and added their own SP modifiers.


Instagib Melee

Super Reload

Infinite Ammo

Big Explosions

Enemy Regeneration

Vampire

Must Active Reload

Friendly Fire

Big Head

Piñata

Flower Blood

Comet

Laugh Track

If laugh track is what I think it is then LOOOOOOOOOOOLLL and Halo needs to copy it for Halo 4.
 

PooBone

Member
Gui_PT said:
Gears lol
Ha!

Yeah, I'll be renting that one for a romp through the campain to see if they added in my favorite things they got rid of in Gears 2 (not holding my breath) and then it's on to something else, probably Ico/SOTC
 

feel

Member
Ramirez said:
Sucks, but expected. As much as I want a no bloom playlist, I could tell from Halo Fest that it probably wouldn't happen once NBS was cited as an "extreme" showcase of what the TU could do. Pretty sure NBS still had sprint as well, which I also don't want. I'd love to be wrong, maybe if I can convince the majority of the people in the beta hoppers to always select it when it pops up. :p

I'm far more interested in people's reactions about 85% bloom, it still annoyed me at times over LAN, so I can't see it being a sweet spot online.
Bloomless DMR looked glorious in the new vid today. I hope it's not too much to ask to have it in a playlist with Halo2's fast movement and no AAs come Nov15... :/
 
Schmitty said:
So wait...

What is the difference between the TU and the beta hoppers?
There is no difference. The TU makes the beta hoppers doable. The only reason. If you want to play the changes of the TU, you have to wait till the Beta Hoppers playlist is online.
 

Homeboyd

Member
Schmitty said:
So wait...

What is the difference between the TU and the beta hoppers?
The TU will be the actual applied changes to the game mechanics that you will have to download. The beta hoppers will be where you get to experience the playlists that feature said changes in online multiplayer.
 

stephen08

Member
Schmitty said:
So wait...

What is the difference between the TU and the beta hoppers?

The TU adds functionality for gametypes. These gametypes won't be in standard MM and will first be confined to the beta hoppers. Once the changes have been played, and reception is warm changes will be rolled out in to other playlists but that's probably a way's down the line.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Schmitty said:
So wait...

What is the difference between the TU and the beta hoppers?

TU adds new Megalo hooks

Beta hoppers use the new Megalo hooks with special game variants that you can save and keep for customs

Vanilla Reach supposedly stays Vanilla Reach from here on out
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Steelyuhas said:
The 120 speed for Anniversary gametypes make it significantly harder to shoot people, but yeah the CE Mag will still wreck worlds. It's where I play to speed the most time once CEA hits (because of the Magnum, no AA's, and the maps), but we'll see what happens. I am also very curious how the matchmaking populations will break down once we have default Reach, some hybrid stuff, zero bloom, Anniversary gametypes, etc.
Yeah the population in the Beta hopper is going to be crazy day 1.

I'm still curious how 343 will determine which TU changes to float into what playlists, based on feedback, if they are mixed. If I had my druthers (I have no idea what those are but I'm reasonably certain I don't have them), I'd fold that armor lock adjustment into every playlist, stat.

Which raises the question of the rather tricky job 343 has incorporating these changes.

Approach 1: Separate hoppers. Classic Reach over there, updated stuff over there, no overlap. Downside is duplication of playlists and the need for pruning.

Approach 2: Separate hoppers, with mingling: Perhaps the best way to see what sticks is to drop an updated game type into a playlist and see how the population moves over time. I have a feeling that if 85% bloom Slayer were added to Squad Slayer, the population would migrate to it, and stay there, but having it along side regular DMR starts would be a great way to see if that's the case.

343 has said the 'vanilla' Reach will remain available to players, but that could mean both game types and playlists. I'm sort of thinking out loud (well, sort of) here, but I'm really fascinated to see what the approach is and how the player populations move in response.
 

Schmitty

Member
Hypertrooper said:
There is no difference. The TU makes the beta hoppers doable. The only reason. If you want to play the changes of the TU, you have to wait till the Beta Hoppers playlist is online.
So, none of the changes to AA's or bloom get applied until the beta hoppers are out. So in other words, nothing really changes until the 4th of October?
 

FyreWulff

Member
Also I guess we'll just have to forge Invasion onto Headlong ourselves? Hopefully we've got some one-way shield doors in that Forge palette.
 
Schmitty said:
So, none of the changes to AA's or bloom get applied until the beta hoppers are out. So in other words, nothing really changes until the 4th of October?

They said they would upload a gametype for us to play as a preview.
 

feel

Member
It's just a complete mess with all these gametypes and variations. They better trim down a ton of fat for Halo 4 and make everyone play the same (good) game.
 
Every time 343 mentions "vanilla Reach" as always being available, I interpret it as follows:

- There will always be playlists with bloom. (Not necessarily 100% though.)
- There will always be playlists with Armor Abilities. (But they might be tweaked, i.e. Armor Lock and Camo)
- There will always be playlists without the CE pistol.

Melee bleedthrough will probably be a Classic-only change. Sword blocking is an iffy one too.

But I wouldn't be surprised if "vanilla Reach" eventually gets 85% bloom and the Armor Lock/Active Camo nerfs. I don't think anyone would object to the latter anyways.
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
I hope they implement most everything across all playlists. Having 20 that play differently and with altered mechanics is just sowing confusion.
 
Headlong looks amazing. The ramp up to where Carbine spawns is new too. I love the aesthetics on it. So pretty.

Some of you guys crack me up :lol
 

GhaleonEB

Member
ncsuDuncan said:
Every time 343 mentions "vanilla Reach" as always being available, I interpret it as follows:

- There will always be playlists with bloom. (Not necessarily 100% though.)
- There will always be playlists with Armor Abilities. (But they might be tweaked, i.e. Armor Lock and Camo)
- There will always be playlists without the CE pistol.

Melee bleedthrough will probably be a Classic-only change. Sword blocking is an iffy one too.

But I wouldn't be surprised if "vanilla Reach" eventually gets 85% bloom and the Armor Lock/Active Camo nerfs. I don't think anyone would object to the latter anyways.
I think the armor abilities in particular need to be either made universal in 'vanilla' Reach, or kept out. Having AA's behave differently across the playlists will just be confusing, and likewise with the shield change.

So I agree; the AA changes and sword blocking are clearly efforts to rebalance the game a bit, and it makes sense to roll that out wider. I hope they are, anyways.

The bloom options are easier to drop in as game types. Zero bloom DMR Slayer is will be a good specialized game type, perhaps even as its own playlist.

It's going to get confusing, though, as Ram said. So many possible ways to roll things out.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Off-topic but just got a pretty huge bomb shell dropped on me.

In less than 1 hour I find out if I move and I just found out like 10 minutes ago :(
 
Lyphen said:
I hope they implement most everything across all playlists. Having 20 that play differently and with altered mechanics is just sowing confusion.

So far they're just releasing a gametype right? Customs time.

As far as when the hoppers are actually in, I assume it will be like when DLC hits. People have no problem accessing those right?
 

stephen08

Member
I think that in the end we are going to be left with Anniversary gametypes/playlists and Reach gametypes/playlists as the main 2 flavors. Zero bloom will probably exist in MLG and maybe something like SWAT. Like Duncan I think Vanilla Reach will include some (most?) of these tweaks.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Devolution said:
So far they're just releasing a gametype right? Customs time.

As far as when the hoppers are actually in, I assume it will be like when DLC hits. People have no problem accessing those right?
Right, but 343's stated objective is to float changes more widely where it makes sense. And that's where it gets complicated.
 
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