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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
thezerofire said:
bobs99 ... said:
I wasn't writing them off by saying "Why does it matter anyway?", sorry. I was trying to figure out why people care so much. What I am gathering is just self justification. That's not a bad thing, I guess it just doesn't matter to me.
I don't think its fair to compare them to headshots. Both medals work as defined in their rulesets. Assists are not broken in any way, just different from Halo 3. That is "broken" in many people's eyes here but they aren't as defined by Reach.
GhaleonEB said:
Was Halo 3 maybe too liberal with them?
I have no problem earning them though. My Assistant is near Onyx and is higher than many of my commendations. Am I lucky? Is that more than other people? I do think the window should be 1-2 seconds longer, but still, I don't think I should get an assist for every person that dies that I got a shot on.
The more and more I am around these parts its seems people don't want any change to Halo. I am with you on Reach changes, but many things seem so petty to get bothered about. I don't think some of you will ever be satisfied.
*Disclaimer: I'm not necessarily defending Reach assists, I guess I just don't see why its such a big deal. Its a change from an older game (sin?) and a bit harder to earn. That's ok with me.
thezerofire
Banned
It basically just shows a more accurate picture of how the team worked. Say a guy went -2, but he got 8 assists (in a pre-Reach halo). He was a credit to the team, and you know it. In Reach though, it would probably be 1 or 2 assists, and you might complain about the randoms or something. It is basically self-justification, yeah.
Steelyuhas
Member
ChiefEdiri said:
Oct 4th a beta hopper using TU settings goes live. They will also release a TU gametype for people to play in customs a "short time after the TU".
So it's definitely not all preparation for CEA.
It is a well established fact that assists are harder to earn in Reach relative to past Halo games. It's great that you are proficient at earning them, but in aggregate, they are harder to earn. And when combined with the incentive system for them, it's understandable that there would be some grumbling.senador said:
Not to pick on you exclusively, but I really hate it when people drop this load into a conversation. I have been clear about the effect the that assist Challenges have on the game in my experience, and why I do not like them. That is what we are discussing. Not some abstract level of 'change' to a game that I am adverse to, but a specific identifiable issue and the pros and cons of that specific issue. I don't like dudes using Evade to lunge into my face with the sword either, but it's not because I don't like change, it's because that is a poorly designed gameplay feature. These are not the same things.
bobs...onGaf
Member
senador said:
Someone (I think Tashi) made a video showing why they where broken, I remember him (or someone) literally going into a custom game and testing it out in a bunch of different ways. When I say broken I literally mean that anyone would count what happened as a assist but Reach didnt.
Its not just me hating on the change in Reach either, I dont have a problem in other games with Assists. If a system works and counts assists then im cool with it, with Reach though im sure its just off.
And yeah like all the stats systems its just there for self reflection.
Well said Ghaleon. That adverse to change argument annoys me to no end aswell. Im adverse to bad change. Theres a HUGE distinction. With the assist system though its not about that lol.
User 73706
Banned
Letters said:
omg :lol
^ lmao
I was just amused and in typical internet fashion went overboard with the smileys. I would be that happy if that showed up on a bulletin board on a Halo 4 vidoc, showing the votes of an internal 343i meeting.Tashi0106 said:
In his defense, Reach's DMR works nicely on host or amazing connections, so if he keeps getting kills when he thinks he should, it's harder for him to see why we hate it so much.Tunavi said:
senador said:
My issues are when the game is changed for the sake of change rather than for the sake of improvement. Most of the time, things that had no reason to even be considered for alteration are changed for no explained reason. Change things that can be improved on and leave the things that work alone.
Gabotron ES
Member
It's official, Waypoint's file share TU gametype will be 400% bloom.
ncsuDuncan
Member
I think showing the assist stat is meaningless without also showing another stat: Assisted Kills. If you're going to keep them in the post-game carnage report you need to add a new column.
Total Kills - 15
Assisted Kills - 3
Assists - 5
(So the hidden Unassisted Kills would be 12.)
It wouldn't require any new formulas calculating % damage done - Assisted Kills would simply be all of the ones you get where someone else gets an Assist. Unassisted Kills are those where no one else gets an assist (even if you didn't do 100% of the damage).
That way if credits are tied to kills, you could split it like so:
Unassisted Kill - 1000 cR
Assisted Kill - 700 cR
Assist - 300 cR
Rewarding assists is okay as long as the total reward for Assisted Kill + Assist is equal to or less than the reward for an Unassisted Kill.
The only way you can create an Assist Challenge or Commendation without negatively impacting the game is by making it only part of a larger challenge:
"Complete a matchmaking slayer game where your combined Total Kills and Assists is 20 or more."
Assists are rewarded, and while the challenge treats them as equal to kills, the credit system innately rewards kills more generously. Note that this wouldn't work as "Complete a matchmaking slayer game where your combined Assisted Kills and Assists is 20 or more." because that would discourage Unassisted Kills.
The same can be said for the vice-versa case about discouraging Assisted Kills. You should never discourage kills of any type in Slayer. (You should never discourage them in Objective either, but in that case you also shouldn't encourage them.)
Total Kills - 15
Assisted Kills - 3
Assists - 5
(So the hidden Unassisted Kills would be 12.)
It wouldn't require any new formulas calculating % damage done - Assisted Kills would simply be all of the ones you get where someone else gets an Assist. Unassisted Kills are those where no one else gets an assist (even if you didn't do 100% of the damage).
That way if credits are tied to kills, you could split it like so:
Unassisted Kill - 1000 cR
Assisted Kill - 700 cR
Assist - 300 cR
Rewarding assists is okay as long as the total reward for Assisted Kill + Assist is equal to or less than the reward for an Unassisted Kill.
The only way you can create an Assist Challenge or Commendation without negatively impacting the game is by making it only part of a larger challenge:
"Complete a matchmaking slayer game where your combined Total Kills and Assists is 20 or more."
Assists are rewarded, and while the challenge treats them as equal to kills, the credit system innately rewards kills more generously. Note that this wouldn't work as "Complete a matchmaking slayer game where your combined Assisted Kills and Assists is 20 or more." because that would discourage Unassisted Kills.
The same can be said for the vice-versa case about discouraging Assisted Kills. You should never discourage kills of any type in Slayer. (You should never discourage them in Objective either, but in that case you also shouldn't encourage them.)
Gabotron ES
Member
Homeboyd said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Works on multiple levels.Letters said:
Devin Olsen
Member
I think with 400% bloom they would probably missLetters said:
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
They were aiming for the head.Letters said:
I like these ideas a lot.ncsuDuncan said:
GhaleonEB said:
I understand that, I just don't see that as a problem. Its different yes, but I don't see that as bad.
GhaleonEB said:
Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you by any means, it just came after your quote.
I think there are things we can all look at (like Evade) and say "Wow that is fucking broken" but other things not as much.
I agree on the challenges front and that it brings out stupidity, but like I said, I just ignore it and usually end up with more kills on those days. *shrug*
I wrote up something several times but I'm getting lost in my words and I don't want to cause problems so I'll just let it be.
Steelyuhas
Member
ChiefEdiri said:
There is no guarantee that that will ever happen. 343 has stated that they want to deep default Reach in place, but that they will consider implementing changes across the board if the feedback is positive enough. The kind of changes we are realistically talking about are probably the Armor Lock and Camo nerf across the board, but not no bloom across all of matchmaking.
senador said:
I do agree that something like challenges really aren't that big of a deal to me. If there is a challenge that I don't like, I'm simply not going to do it. You can't please everyone with every challenge.
Like the LASO weeklies for example. I thought those were the worst weeklies imaginable, but many people here did everyone.
Gabotron ES
Member
Not really, 400% bloom encourages you to pace your DMR shots and punishes spamming.Devin Olsen said:
BELI343
Gabotron ES
Member
What changes do you guys think will be spread across the board?Steelyuhas said:
Some playlists like SWAT and Infection would greatly benefit from no bloom and sword's block removal. I'm also sure at some point 85% bloom will be present in all playlists but that's my personal opinion.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Letters said:
So will everyone else with 400% bloom.
They shouldn't worry about upsetting the 5 peasants who are content with the way Camo/AL/Bloom/Melee work in their current state and make those sweeping changes across all playlists.
Game should be split up between those changes and no bloom playlists, make things a lot simpler.
Game should be split up between those changes and no bloom playlists, make things a lot simpler.
In the case of assists, I think the requirement to complete them all in one game is what's really problematic. Because then you can have everyone on the the going for X number of assists, rather than trying to go for kills. Normal assist Challenges can just pile up over the course of the day.Ramirez said:
I think that's how it will work and the reason why they're focusing on NeoReach for the beta, so people have time to adjust to the changes and provide feedback without getting them just dropped out of nowhere.Ramirez said:
When they said the original Reach experience would remain there same as always, they were talking in general about the style of gameplay, not about keeping the very broken stuff the same.
Ramirez said:
Totally agree. Plus those people who really like those things are exploiting them anyway, bloom aside.
I was just thinking, and I'm going to think my assumption that the vast majority either dislike bloom or don't care is correct. There are very few who actually love it and don't want it gone or changed. They ought to sweep 85% (or 0% depending on how it plays) across the board too.
I seldom go for multiplayer Challenges as well; with Firefight the only changes I make are trying to line up a bunch of them to finish in one game; I get a kick out of piling them up.Ramirez said:
I'm less concerned about myself earning them and more about how things like the assist one can affect other players. I've been in games where it's clear some of my team mates were holding back shots after landing a few, hoping I'd finish them off. If I were awesome, that would be great, but I'm sort of not....
The week the Avenge medal was the weekly led to some hilarious games.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I've been chatting with randoms about the TU, and while most of them hadn't really thought about bloom as a mechanic per se, they recognize the randomness and how frustrating it can be. And most of them are psyched for the changes.senador said:
It's funny how folks who play Halo everyday can be so in the dark about the TU, CEA maps, etc. They're not involved in the community side at all, whereas for me it's a big reason I've stuck with the franchise.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Bit of a random comment, eh?orznge said:
User 73706
Banned
orznge said:
Cue gametypes with 777% bloom and 1 FOV.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
And with a snowball's chance in hell of it happening too.Zeouterlimits said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
No doubt.Dani said:
The Henery
Member
Steelyuhas said:
LASO weeklies were best weeklies. Never again though.
Daily challenges have ended up being taken far too seriously by some of the mm population, they are worth next to nothing in cr if you're above a certain rank.
Played Dino Blasters for the first time the other night. I had no idea what the gametype was before I played it. I thought I'd been incepted into the ultimate bk dream fantasy.
The Real Napsta
Member
reggie said:
Yet you still play it.