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[FyreWulff]

Prisoner is the best 2v2 map ever made. At least we are getting that.

I was pretty sure the entire reason Prisoner exists was for Rockets FFA

 

[thezerofire]

I've heard this argument a lot from experienced players - but I find I have LESS fun when I play games that have been set up or designed by these players.

We played a game on Damnation with the 3sk pistol (and no bloom) - and I had pretty much NO fun. Why? Because if 2 (or god forbid 3) opposing players are teamshooting you, you're dead before you can get your second shot off. I NEED the extra second or two to find cover, or figure out who to shoot back at - when the game's as fast-paced as that, I just don't like it.

And yet... I was told, more than once, how much more balanced it was. How everyone started with a weapon that, right off spawn, allowed them to fight back from distance.

If that's balance... fuck balance.

I'm a casual, and I give a pretty big fuck about the balance. I think Reach has some issues - and I'm happier in playlists that have limited AAs - but to me, it's the most fun I've had in multiplayer, over time (as measured by how much time I'm carving out of my life to play it).

With respect to the argument that CE was the only game that didn't hamstring expert players just to give lesser players a chance...

When I played Halo 1, I was playing against people who had at most a couple of years of Halo multiplay under their belts - and even the most dedicated of them could count their multiplayer games in the hundreds.

You give those same weapons, and same gameplay mechanics, to people with 10 years of multiplay under their belts, and game counts in the tens of thousands... and, well, it's less fun to play against them. I saw EXACTLY how it feels to play against people who are way, way, WAY better than me when chance is removed from the equation... and I didn't like it. (It means that if this becomes the norm in matchmaking, I can no longer play customs, or even in regular MM with folks on different levels than I'm on, because I NEED TrueSkill balancing to pit me against people ONLY at my level. And that sucks.)

I want balance decisions made by people who realize that players like me make up the MAJORITY of the player base, and aren't continually telling me that balancing it for the experts won't hurt me at all. (Because my experience is exactly the opposite of that.)

And that's why you need good skill-based matchmaking.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

There's really no Bungie/343 map in Reach that's suitable for doubles, really (maaaaybe Powerhouse). Based on 343's comments from the panel, the concept of creating maps that cater towards a more specific gametype ala Halo 2 are not going to happen again, so we're left with maps that are built for everything and play exceptionally at nothing. :-/

PAX Storytime again:

While chilling with HBO/GAF friends in the theater lobby before the Halo 4 panel (we got to skip the loooong line), Alison Stroll walked up to me with a camcorder and said "If you had to tell the Halo 4 team one thing, what would it be?"

I froze. A million things were running through my head and I couldn't find the words to explain any of them. I managed to squeak out "I... love you guys?" to which Alison responded, "Really? They haven't released anything yet!"

I then started collecting myself and managed to spit out "Well, I will say to the multiplayer team: design maps with one gametype in mind, like Zanzibar and 1-flag." Alison could tell I was having trouble picking just one thing to say, so she smiled and I let her move on to someone else.

So if Halo 4 sucks you guys can all blame me. But if it rocks and the maps are Halo 2 levels of amazing, I'm taking all the credit.

 

[KidA Seven]

And that's why you need good skill-based matchmaking.

Pretty much this.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Sure man, go ahead.

Thanks!

I wonder why that is though? I know its more efficient to do the more general approach. I was young and sucked at Halo 2 so I feel I missed some of the great things about it, but this approach sounds like it was hugely beneficial.

Why can't we have a return to this? Is the talent too thinly spread? Not cost effective to have more people on this? Why is there only one developer on the TU? Why isn't the playlist management team larger and more focused? I'm not trying to be ignorant, I know how business work, I'm just openly wondering. Is it simply money? If that is the case and a Halo monthly sub would fix that, even if it was voluntary I'd totally be in. I'd love to see this level of design and implementation again.

I agree. It seems a weird way to progress. I understand not wanting to have a map that only plays well on one gametype, but then again, old maps played well with other game types. Then again, maybe the choice to exclude Terminal was because of the inclusion of Headlong which in a way has the same focus.

Still, in the future I hope we can return to Halo 2 style MP maps as IMO they were the by far the best of the series.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

And that's why you need good skill-based matchmaking.

And how would matchmaking help his enjoyment of custom games? That's exactly his point he would have no choice but to only play matchmaking to enjoy the game. Hence he would no longer be able to enjoy customs.

 

[Devolution]

I wonder why that is though? I know its more efficient to do the more general approach. I was young and sucked at Halo 2 so I feel I missed some of the great things about it, but this approach sounds like it was hugely beneficial.

Why can't we have a return to this? Is the talent too thinly spread? Not cost effective to have more people on this? Why is there only one developer on the TU? Why isn't the playlist management team larger and more focused? I'm not trying to be ignorant, I know how business work, I'm just openly wondering. Is it simply money? If that is the case and a Halo monthly sub would fix that, even if it was voluntary I'd totally be in. I'd love to see this level of design and implementation again.

The maps in 3 were still better than reach because you had small maps, medium size maps and large maps. Too many of the big team maps in Reach are invasion maps, and thus half of the map (or more) isn't really used in the big team match. Most of the maps are medium size, so they're fine for 4v4/5v5/6v6 but most are not specialized enough to make specific gametypes work well. 2v2 you're kind of SOL in Reach.

A bunch of the maps also have frame rate issues and unnecessary space/low grav inclusions. =/

 

[Hypertrooper]

PAX Storytime again:

While chilling with HBO/GAF friends in the theater lobby before the Halo 4 panel (we got to skip the loooong line), Alison Stroll walked up to me with a camcorder and said "If you had to tell the Halo 4 team one thing, what would it be?"

I froze. A million things were running through my head and I couldn't find the words to explain any of them. I managed to squeak out "I... love you guys?" to which Alison responded, "Really? They haven't released anything yet!"

I then started collecting myself and managed to spit out "Well, I will say to the multiplayer team: design maps with one gametype in mind, like Zanzibar and 1-flag." Alison could tell I was having trouble picking just one thing to say, so she smiled and I let her move on to someone else.

So if Halo 4 sucks you guys can all blame me. But if it rocks and the maps are Halo 2 levels of amazing, I'm taking all the credit.

Don't know that I'm just someone else. ;(

 

[kylej]

PAX Storytime again:

While chilling with HBO/GAF friends in the theater lobby before the Halo 4 panel (we got to skip the loooong line), Alison Stroll walked up to me with a camcorder and said "If you had to tell the Halo 4 team one thing, what would it be?"

I froze. A million things were running through my head and I couldn't find the words to explain any of them. I managed to squeak out "I... love you guys?" to which Alison responded, "Really? They haven't released anything yet!"

I then started collecting myself and managed to spit out "Well, I will say to the multiplayer team: design maps with one gametype in mind, like Zanzibar and 1-flag." Alison could tell I was having trouble picking just one thing to say, so she smiled and I let her move on to someone else.

So if Halo 4 sucks you guys can all blame me. But if it rocks and the maps are Halo 2 levels of amazing, I'm taking all the credit.

Choke.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Here's some more you're free to use:

 

[FyreWulff]

The maps in 3 were still better than reach because you had small maps, medium size maps and large maps. Too many of the big team maps in Reach are invasion maps, and thus half of the map (or more) isn't really used in the big team match. Most of the maps are medium size, so they're fine for 4v4/5v5/6v6 but most are not specialized enough to make specific gametypes work well. 2v2 you're kind of SOL in Reach.

A bunch of the maps also have frame rate issues and unnecessary space inclusions. =/

Speaking of which, Prisoner had framerate issues on the topmost floor at Halofest. Development version, though.

 

[Devolution]

Speaking of which, Prisoner had framerate issues on the topmost floor at Halofest. Development version, though.

Hopefully it can be fixed since I'm sure a lot of scoping will happen from up there.

 

[squidhands]

Totally agree and noticed this as well. I think what you stated definitely points out just why people are so excited about Headlong and the other maps.


True, but its inclusion is not bringing me back into doubles, there are far too many big ones.

I know it is for me, definitely. I can't recall any epic FFA or Team Slayer matches, but 1 bomb on Headlong was...wait for it...the bomb. (sorry)

I wonder why that is though? I know its more efficient to do the more general approach. I was young and sucked at Halo 2 so I feel I missed some of the great things about it, but this approach sounds like it was hugely beneficial.

Why can't we have a return to this? Is the talent too thinly spread? Not cost effective to have more people on this? Why is there only one developer on the TU? Why isn't the playlist management team larger and more focused? I'm not trying to be ignorant, I know how business work, I'm just openly wondering. Is it simply money? If that is the case and a Halo monthly sub would fix that, even if it was voluntary I'd totally be in. I'd love to see this level of design and implementation again.

In a word: Slayer. Apart from the bafflingly popular Living Dead, Slayer always has the highest population. Bungie and now 343 uses this data to presumably learn who to build for, and that would be the Slayer population. Which means when it comes to planning out structurally, objective gametypes take a backseat. If Capture the Flag was the most popular gametype in Reach, the maps would be much different, I'd guess.

As to your other question regarding the TU, I'd imagine that's because most of their money and resources are poured into Halo 4.

 

[Reagan's BR]

I got online and played one game last night. First time in a week. I sucked haha.

Is the Cortana chip and Energy Sword PAX exclusive ala the Noble Six helmet?

Also, does anyone know of anyone who would be willing to part with a flaming Mark V avatar helmet? Been trying to get on for months.

 

[thezerofire]

And how would matchmaking help his enjoyment of custom games? That's exactly his point he would have no choice but to only play matchmaking to enjoy the game. Hence he would no longer be able to enjoy customs.

Custom games are custom, this discussion shouldn't apply to them. You can play whatever you want, you're not limited to default gametypes.

 

[Hypertrooper]

I got online and played one game last night. First time in a week. I sucked haha.

Is the Cortana chip and Energy Sword PAX exclusive ala the Noble Six helmet?

Also, does anyone know of anyone who would be willing to part with a flaming Mark V avatar helmet? Been trying to get on for months.

Can't you buy the Energy Sword at the Avatar marketplace? The Cortana Code was HaloFest exclusive.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Anyone feel like getting on and playing some games?

 

[darthbob]

Anyone feel like getting on and playing some games?

Don't you people have jobs?

 

[stephen08]

I was at Halofest and didn't get a Cortana code. Where were they?

Anyone feel like getting on and playing some games?

I'll play. GT: stephen087

 

[squidhands]

Seriously, i'd rather have live action ads than a full movie. Full movies based on video games tend to be crap and i'd rather have no Halo film than a crappy one. Too risky. Short films are fine (like the Halo 3 Landfall).

As much as I enjoyed Landfall, the best live-action piece I've seen is the one they did for ODST. Holy shit, was that moving.

Don't you people have jobs?

I would do terrible things if I could get the chance to play xbox during my lunch break.

 

[Devolution]

I know it is for me, definitely. I can't recall any epic FFA or Team Slayer matches, but 1 bomb on Headlong was...wait for it...the bomb. (sorry)

In a word: Slayer. Apart from the bafflingly popular Living Dead, Slayer always has the highest population. Bungie and now 343 uses this data to presumably learn who to build for, and that would be the Slayer population. Which means when it comes to planning out structurally, objective gametypes take a backseat. If Capture the Flag was the most popular gametype in Reach, the maps would be much different, I'd guess.

As to your other question regarding the TU, I'd imagine that's because most of their money and resources are poured into Halo 4.

What's weird is that objective based maps can easily become slayer games, however they can't go vice versa. All that really needs to change is availability of weapons. Look at beaver creek, midship, warlock and sanctuary. It helps that each of those is symmetrical but they could go back and forth from multiflag to team slayer with little to no issues because the groundwork from team objective was already there. But if you build out some asymmetrical map that's not necessarily objective, it's in this weird limbo and can work, sometimes, like with powerhouse, or fail completely like uncaged.

Don't you people have jobs?

In college at the moment. Posting in class. I'm bad.

 

[Hypertrooper]

I was at Halofest and didn't get a Cortana code. Where were they?

You got the code at the Waypoint Lounge. They were gone at Sunday afternoon.

 

[Farooq]

I know it is for me, definitely. I can't recall any epic FFA or Team Slayer matches, but 1 bomb on Headlong was...wait for it...the bomb. (sorry)

In a word: Slayer. Apart from the bafflingly popular Living Dead, Slayer always has the highest population. Bungie and now 343 uses this data to presumably learn who to build for, and that would be the Slayer population. Which means when it comes to planning out structurally, objective gametypes take a backseat. If Capture the Flag was the most popular gametype in Reach, the maps would be much different, I'd guess.

As to your other question regarding the TU, I'd imagine that's because most of their money and resources are poured into Halo 4.

Honestly, I think Bungie coming to this conclusion is utter bullshit.

I mean, the failure of Team Objective in Halo 3 has more to do with other factors, than just the fact that people don't like objective. If given proper support, I think you can have a viable population in an objective playlist.

Even so, if this was Bungie's thought process, to design maps that cater to the predominately slayer crowd, the maps are still terrible.

What's weird is that objective based maps can easily become slayer games, however they can't go vice versa. All that really needs to change is availability of weapons. Look at beaver creek, midship, warlock and sanctuary. It helps that each of those is symmetrical but they could go back and forth from multiflag to team slayer with little to no issues because the groundwork from team objective was already there. But if you build out some asymmetrical map that's not necessarily objective, it's in this weird limbo and can work, sometimes, like with powerhouse, or fail completely like uncaged.

Exactly, not only do symmetrical maps make great slayer maps. They help with Reach's (and to an extent Halo 3's) terrible spawn system.

 

[senador]

In a word: Slayer. Apart from the bafflingly popular Living Dead, Slayer always has the highest population. Bungie and now 343 uses this data to presumably learn who to build for, and that would be the Slayer population. Which means when it comes to planning out structurally, objective gametypes take a backseat. If Capture the Flag was the most popular gametype in Reach, the maps would be much different, I'd guess.

As to your other question regarding the TU, I'd imagine that's because most of their money and resources are poured into Halo 4.

That makes sense for both but it still makes me sad. Some of the most fun I've had is playing objective games with GAF. I took 3 IRL friends into TO last night and we got beat badly. We played 2 Flag Pro. My friends were pissed and whining, but I was smiling and having fun. I was dying only from being shot, not BS was going on. Our K/Ds were really bad and they didn't want to go back in. There's got to be a way to make objective games more welcoming for people. Maybe make K/D not count? Different payouts? I know it won't be saved for Reach really, but I hope in 4 objective fares better.

For the TU, that makes sense too, but I'd love to see more resources available to 343 for this sort of thing. It was surprising to learn that only a few people are working on the TU. Still, 343 is doing a great job juggling many projects especially with the recent transition. They are positive, put up with a lot of crap, and are super involved with the community, so props to them. <3

 

[thezerofire]

In college at the moment. Posting in class. I'm bad.

at work at the moment. Posting in work. same as everyday.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Don't you people have jobs?

I actually do not.

I worked for a company for 5 years and was really unhappy, so I quit and am now going to school to pursue something that I enjoy.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

at work at the moment. Posting in work. same as everyday.

+1

(I get my work done though, it's a very nice work relationship)

 

[Louis Wu]

Wu, OOC how do you feel about a 5-shot bloomless DMR?

I haven't actually played it yet - but I'm guessing I'd feel the same as I did about the bloomless pistol: I'll LOVE it when I'm playing against people who are on my level or below, and I'll be frustrated when I'm playing against people who are better than me.

To be clear: I don't mind losing. (Hell, if I minded losing, I'd have quit Halo a long time ago. ) I mind when I feel like I don't even have a chance. I'm okay playing against people who are better than me right now; even when it becomes obvious we're going to lose - maybe even lose BADLY - I can still make it personally fun by, say, trying to take that one guy down at least ONCE before the game ends.

The game I mentioned in that other post was a slayer game in which I got 2 kills - which were counteracted by my two suicides (have I mentioned that I hated Damnation until I tried it on Halo PC, where the additional control of the mouse made it tolerable?). I can remember one fight where two of us (one from each team) jumped down into the rocket pit at the same time, from opposite sides - and I was lucky enough to beat him to the rockets. I jumped up and backwards, so I wouldn't kill myself with the blast... and was shot once in the head (and killed, since I was low on health) by a pistol guy from up on top. Before I could get the rocket off. It just wasn't fun.

And that's why you need good skill-based matchmaking.

Okay. Hypothetical:

I'm reading GAF, and I actually have some free time. Devo pops into the forum, and says "anyone on now?" I join her game, and Plywood, senador, and Barrow Roll are already there. (This is why it's hypothetical - she's never played with me. )

We jump into Squad Slayer.

Please describe an algorithm that could SUCCESSFULLY match us against an even team.

(Hint: you can't - because it's impossible. It might BE possible in a playlist with > 25,000 people, and with 5-10 minute wait times... but with a pool of 1500 players to choose from, and most fans wanting matches in a minute or two... it simply cannot be done. We are too disparate a group - and even if you were able to match EACH of us to a specific person who was roughly our equivalent, unless they were a 5-player team, their combination would STILL not play the same as us.)

 

[senador]

I actually do not.

I worked for a company for 5 years and was really unhappy, so I quit and am now going to school to pursue something that I enjoy.

Wow really? I was with my company for 4 years and rage quit (well I had raged for years, but calmly quit and was super relieved when I decided it) last week.

Just taking it easy, freelancing, and resetting myself before I go back out there.

Props for taking your life back!

 

[Devolution]

I'm reading GAF, and I actually have some free time. Devo pops into the forum, and says "anyone on now?" I join her game, and Plywood, senador, and Barrow Roll are already there. (This is why it's hypothetical - she's never played with me. )

DUDE. Why haven't we? =(

Also um, off topic but for my senior project we need to pick 3 possible companies to rebrand. Do you think any particular gaming companies need one? Or would you like to see one rebranded? And which one?

I need something techy I think to round out my protfolio, it's mostly food and nature right now.

 

[Louis Wu]

DUDE. Why haven't we? =(

Mostly timing, I think. You're on late at night, I'm usually offline by the time you jump on. (Or you're playing during the day, when I can't rationalize firing up a controller. ) You live on the wrong coast.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

DUDE. Why haven't we? =(

Also um, off topic but for my senior project we need to pick 3 possible companies to rebrand. Do you think any particular gaming companies need one? Or would you like to see one rebranded? And which one?

I need something techy I think to round out my protfolio, it's mostly food and nature right now.

You a marketing student? That's what my degree is in, graduated in 2008.

As for the project, I think Activision is a prime candidate. Their logos are all outdated, and their public view is mostly negative following the IW incident and the way they run franchises into the ground.

 

[thezerofire]

Okay. Hypothetical:

I'm reading GAF, and I actually have some free time. Devo pops into the forum, and says "anyone on now?" I join her game, and Plywood, senador, and Barrow Roll are already there. (This is why it's hypothetical - she's never played with me. )

We jump into Squad Slayer.

Please describe an algorithm that could SUCCESSFULLY match us against an even team.

(Hint: you can't - because it's impossible. It might BE possible in a playlist with > 25,000 people, and with 5-10 minute wait times... but with a pool of 1500 players to choose from, and most fans wanting matches in a minute or two... it simply cannot be done. We are too disparate a group - and even if you were able to match EACH of us to a specific person who was roughly our equivalent, unless they were a 5-player team, their combination would STILL not play the same as us.)

With how it is now, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find another group of people like that. I find games with unequal skill levels all the time. It helps that Reach doesn't really match you up with teams of the same number, though.

In addition, in that case, you have a bunch of good people to support you, so it should be better anyway.

DUDE. Why haven't we? =(

Also um, off topic but for my senior project we need to pick 3 possible companies to rebrand. Do you think any particular gaming companies need one? Or would you like to see one rebranded? And which one?

I need something techy I think to round out my protfolio, it's mostly food and nature right now.

dude, HP

 

[Sai-kun]

Don't you people have jobs?

School doesn't start til next week broooooo. And even then, I'll still be on GAF. :lol

I'll be getting on shortly, I think. just gotta shower + make a bit of food.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Mostly timing, I think. You're on late at night, I'm usually offline by the time you jump on. (Or you're playing during the day, when I can't rationalize firing up a controller. ) You live on the wrong coast.

All of you americans have wrong timzones. you should fix that.

Don't you people have jobs?

School starts next week for me. You can expect that I won't post that much anymore. And playing with Devolution and co. will be impossible for me, too.

 

[squidhands]

What's weird is that objective based maps can easily become slayer games, however they can't go vice versa. All that really needs to change is availability of weapons. Look at beaver creek, midship, warlock and sanctuary. It helps that each of those is symmetrical but they could go back and forth from multiflag to team slayer with little to no issues because the groundwork from team objective was already there. But if you build out some asymmetrical map that's not necessarily objective, it's in this weird limbo and can work, sometimes, like with powerhouse, or fail completely like uncaged.




In college at the moment. Posting in class. I'm bad.

Agreed entirely. I like the way you think.

Honestly, I think Bungie coming to this conclusion is utter bullshit.

I mean, the failure of Team Objective in Halo 3 has more to do with other factors, than just the fact that people don't like objective. If given proper support, I think you can have a viable population in an objective playlist.

Even so, if this was Bungie's thought process, to design maps that cater to the predominately slayer crowd, the maps are still terrible.

That's quite possible. H3 really seemed to get us to like their new gametypes and kind of treat the previous stuff like a red-headed stepchild. Reach pretty much did the same thing, but also added the wrinkle of poor objective maps to choose from.

 

[darthbob]

School doesn't start til next week broooooo. And even then, I'll still be on GAF. :lol

I'll be getting on shortly, I think. just gotta shower + make a bit of food.

High School or College?

Spoiler

High Skool 4 Lyfe ^5 Bru-faust

 

[Devolution]

You a marketing student? That's what my degree is in, graduated in 2008.

As for the project, I think Activision is a prime candidate. Their logos are all outdated, and their public view is mostly negative following the IW incident and the way they run franchises into the ground.

Multimedia design is the best way I can put it without going into a long post. (Websites, posters, print, ads online or off, I've even made audio.)

 

[ElRenoRaven]

All of you americans have wrong timzones. you should fix that.


School starts next week for me. You can expect that I won't post that much anymore. And playing with Devolution and co. will be impossible for me, too.

NO it's you silly Non Americans that have all the wrong timezones. You should all move here. lol

 

[Hypertrooper]

NO it's you silly Non Americans that have all the wrong timezones. You should all move here. lol

I really would move to the Americans. I will try to get accepted at an american university.

 

[Devolution]

Mostly timing, I think. You're on late at night, I'm usually offline by the time you jump on. (Or you're playing during the day, when I can't rationalize firing up a controller. ) You live on the wrong coast.

What coast was Halofest located on?

=P

School starts next week for me. You can expect that I won't post that much anymore. And playing with Devolution and co. will be impossible for me, too.

Fudge.

 

[senador]

Okay. Hypothetical:

I'm reading GAF, and I actually have some free time. Devo pops into the forum, and says "anyone on now?" I join her game, and Plywood, senador, and Barrow Roll are already there. (This is why it's hypothetical - she's never played with me. )

We jump into Squad Slayer.

Please describe an algorithm that could SUCCESSFULLY match us against an even team.

(Hint: you can't - because it's impossible. It might BE possible in a playlist with > 25,000 people, and with 5-10 minute wait times... but with a pool of 1500 players to choose from, and most fans wanting matches in a minute or two... it simply cannot be done. We are too disparate a group - and even if you were able to match EACH of us to a specific person who was roughly our equivalent, unless they were a 5-player team, their combination would STILL not play the same as us.)

Dude, you just described an awesome game!

Those 3 people combined are a lot of fun to play with. You need to play with Devo at least once so you understand the hilarity of her. Things like "This fucking host is garbage" or "What the fuck?! I shot that guy 8 times in the head" are just too funny. Right Devo?

To make light of what you said Wu, yeah that game would be tough, but a lot of fun. I have to play different when I play with these guys but I really have a ton of fun and it encourages me to play better. Sure I go slightly negative or only barely positive (cept this one time I actually led the team and felt super cool), but its just fun. Part of that is the banter going on in game and some of the other antics.

That said, I totally understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.

@Devolution, I may have to hit you up for site designs sometime.

 

[Devolution]

Dude, you just described an awesome game!

Those 3 people combined are a lot of fun to play with. You need to play with Devo at least once so you understand the hilarity of her. Things like "This fucking host is garbage" or "What the fuck?! I shot that guy 8 times in the head" are just too funny. Right Devo?

To make light of what you said Wu, yeah that game would be tough, but a lot of fun. I have to play different when I play with these guys but I really have a ton of fun and it encourages me to play better. Sure I go slightly negative or only barely positive (cept this one time I actually led the team and felt super cool), but its just fun.

That said, I totally understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.

I think my best gems are when I get really mad and everything that comes out of my mouth is just a stream of bitter sarcasm.

@Devolution, I may have to hit you up for site designs sometime.

Just don't ask me to code it. I know my weaknesses.

 

[squidhands]

That makes sense for both but it still makes me sad. Some of the most fun I've had is playing objective games with GAF. I took 3 IRL friends into TO last night and we got beat badly. We played 2 Flag Pro. My friends were pissed and whining, but I was smiling and having fun. I was dying only from being shot, not BS was going on. Our K/Ds were really bad and they didn't want to go back in. There's got to be a way to make objective games more welcoming for people. Maybe make K/D not count? Different payouts? I know it won't be saved for Reach really, but I hope in 4 objective fares better.

For the TU, that makes sense too, but I'd love to see more resources available to 343 for this sort of thing. It was surprising to learn that only a few people are working on the TU. Still, 343 is doing a great job juggling many projects especially with the recent transition. They are positive, put up with a lot of crap, and are super involved with the community, so props to them. <3

I think that for most casual players, the longer respawn times in objective games are yet another deterrent in keeping the population from expanding. The idea works on paper, but if you aren't great and choose your role in the match as a body to throw in front of your buddy to keep the flag in play, it can get old fast if you spend too much time staring at your lifeless body. I totally understand that you shouldn't really be doing that, but it happens. Plus lots of people just like to shoot shit, not have to worry about something as complicated as objective strategy. :-(

 

[senador]

I think my best gems are when I get really mad and everything that comes out of my mouth is just a stream of bitter sarcasm.

Oh yes, let's not forget the bitter sarcasm. Those really are the more funny moments.

Just don't ask me to code it. I know my weaknesses

Deal. I started out front end coding and am pretty good at it. That and usability, but I suck at actually coming up with good looking designs. I am not a graphic designer at all. I prefer back end coding though and would like to do more of that. Seriously though, now that I am doing freelance stuff I may hit you up for stuff.

I think that for most casual players, the longer respawn times in objective games are yet another deterrent in keeping the population from expanding. The idea works on paper, but if you aren't great and choose your role in the match as a body to throw in front of your buddy to keep the flag in play, it can get old fast if you spend too much time staring at your lifeless body. I totally understand that you shouldn't really be doing that, but it happens. Plus lots of people just like to shoot shit, not have to worry about something as complicated as objective strategy. :-(

I understand that too. Though some of my greatest Halo moments were 3v3 on Sidewinder with respawn times growing with every death. We got each other up to like 1 minute spawns to take the flag. We had no Halo honor.

Imagine if objective playlists had much higher populations. Games would be much more fair and even and maybe others would start to like it. That's kind of the catch though right? Hopefully something like Flagstravaganza comes back in the future.

Now I am itching for some Objective.

 

[Hypertrooper]

What coast was Halofest located on?

=P




Fudge.

Can I answer this question? The wrong coast. =P East Coast would've been so much better for my wallet.

There is always the weekends where I'm trying to play with you guys.

 

[Risen]

I've heard this argument a lot from experienced players - but I find I have LESS fun when I play games that have been set up or designed by these players.

We played a game on Damnation with the 3sk pistol (and no bloom) - and I had pretty much NO fun. Why? Because if 2 (or god forbid 3) opposing players are teamshooting you, you're dead before you can get your second shot off. I NEED the extra second or two to find cover, or figure out who to shoot back at - when the game's as fast-paced as that, I just don't like it.

And yet... I was told, more than once, how much more balanced it was. How everyone started with a weapon that, right off spawn, allowed them to fight back from distance.

If that's balance... fuck balance.

I'm a casual, and I give a pretty big fuck about the balance. I think Reach has some issues - and I'm happier in playlists that have limited AAs - but to me, it's the most fun I've had in multiplayer, over time (as measured by how much time I'm carving out of my life to play it).

With respect to the argument that CE was the only game that didn't hamstring expert players just to give lesser players a chance...

When I played Halo 1, I was playing against people who had at most a couple of years of Halo multiplay under their belts - and even the most dedicated of them could count their multiplayer games in the hundreds.

You give those same weapons, and same gameplay mechanics, to people with 10 years of multiplay under their belts, and game counts in the tens of thousands... and, well, it's less fun to play against them. I saw EXACTLY how it feels to play against people who are way, way, WAY better than me when chance is removed from the equation... and I didn't like it. (It means that if this becomes the norm in matchmaking, I can no longer play customs, or even in regular MM with folks on different levels than I'm on, because I NEED TrueSkill balancing to pit me against people ONLY at my level. And that sucks.)

I want balance decisions made by people who realize that players like me make up the MAJORITY of the player base, and aren't continually telling me that balancing it for the experts won't hurt me at all. (Because my experience is exactly the opposite of that.)

I completely respect your opinion... but what you explain above means that you want a socialistic game where skill level is not the determining factor. Gaming at it's heart is a competition... whether it's a board game, cards, dominoes, or video. It pits one's skills against another. Sure some of those involve chance, and chance can be the determining factor on who wins/loses - but the reason there is a game in the first place is at heart competition. People play these things for fun, but they don't play them to lose.

I get that it's not fun to get beat on in a game - I don't know anyone who has fun getting it handed to them over and over again. You all but said it yourself, the problem in the Damnation example was playing against players who were better than you. The balance wasn't the issue, you're skill relative to others was. Replace those players with those that have skills similar to yours, and I'm betting your fun factor goes way way up.

I'm not suggesting that a game should be designed around expert players. If this were done, it would be one ONLY played by expert players. However - as Tashi mentioned before, expert players are better wired to expose issues in game mechanics - particularly imbalance.

Whether it's AA abuse, a 3sk pistol, or team rockets - if you play against people who are much better than you, an imbalanced game will have you in the same situation as the Damnation game - getting beat on, perhaps worse due to exploitation of imbalanced game mechanics.

Your fun in being able to compete against more skilled players due to chance or other mechanics is just as important as an MLG player's fun in a niche playlist. I wouldn't begrudge that at all... but I wouldn't design a game around it. The answer in the game design question is definitely core balance within the game, and allow as many game mechanics as possible to be customizable. Then offer playlists created by the community at large based on what they wish to see in a particular game. Tie that to a MM system that truly pits likes against likes and I think you'd find your enjoyment is there for the casual and expert player alike.

Would you ever enter a no bloom playlist? Perhaps not... but with modern game design I don't see why the global Halo community can't have it's cake and eat it too. I think this is where 343 is going... offering something for everyone while working to tweak some core balance issues. If they continue that mindset, Halo 4 could very well be the best Halo yet.

Core balance (in mechanics and maps), as many customizable game mechanics as possible, and proper playlist offerings reflecting the community at large... this makes everyone happy.

 

[Devolution]

I think that for most casual players, the longer respawn times in objective games are yet another deterrent in keeping the population from expanding. The idea works on paper, but if you aren't great and choose your role in the match as a body to throw in front of your buddy to keep the flag in play, it can get old fast if you spend too much time staring at your lifeless body. I totally understand that you shouldn't really be doing that, but it happens. Plus lots of people just like to shoot shit, not have to worry about something as complicated as objective strategy. :-(

Even I get kind of annoyed with slower respawn times for objective. But what really bums me out is objective spawning.

 

[Sai-kun]

High School or College?

Spoiler

High Skool 4 Lyfe ^5 Bru-faust

Sorry buddy, college! I'm gonna be a junior!

Spoiler

My school is the best. Start in september, get out @ Thanksgiving with 6 weeks of winter vacation!

 

[senador]

Even I get kind of annoyed with slower respawn times for objective. But what really bums me out is objective spawning.

Ugh. I had a big post typed out on this earlier and threw it out. So last night in our 1 game we did of objective, we had the flag just feet away from scoring to tie the game and they took us all out. Where did we spawn? Opposite side in the rocks on Asylum. We had no chance to make it back.

I really hope that future Halo games have a better gametype/map configuration where the spawns, weapons, etc can be paired to a map/gametype better instead of the broad stuff we get now.

As for spawns, I want to do some testing but I am pretty sure something is broken with them deep down. You can spawn 1 spot over and over, or on the opposite side in objective games, or right in front or behind of the other team, etc. I was really hoping for a patch for spawns. They seem broken beyond fixing within Forge.