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[Tawpgun]

Well, whatever the word is for the opposite of pacing plus not ever using another weapon, it's that.

Rockets > Pistol
Good sniper > Pistol
Shotgun/Sword/Hammer > Pistol in CQC

Just because something is a utility weapon, doesn't mean it makes other weapons useless.

And there is no need to pace with no bloom. It turns it from an inconsistent game of probability to something determined by aiming skill.

ZBS is its own monster though. Don't expect it as a premiere gametype without major modifications. Such as adding 85 bloom to the pistol and modifying the NR in some way.

If only the DMR was zero bloom I'd be happy.

 

[Hypertrooper]

I'm going to post my feedbacks if I played more games. I hope I'll play better the next times

Btw. OXM Uk has a new article up. 343: Halo 4 "can't just regurgitate the same experience"

 

[J10]

Rockets > Pistol
Good sniper > Pistol
Shotgun/Sword/Hammer > Pistol in CQC

Just because something is a utility weapon, doesn't mean it makes other weapons useless.

And there is no need to pace with no bloom. It turns it from an inconsistent game of probability to something determined by aiming skill.

ZBS is its own monster though. Don't expect it as a premiere gametype without major modifications. Such as adding 85 bloom to the pistol and modifying the NR in some way.

If only the DMR was zero bloom I'd be happy.

I disagree.

 

[Tawpgun]

I disagree.

Thanks for your detailed insight...

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I disagree.

Wow. ZBS is by far an improvement.

 

[monome]

I'm going to post my feedbacks if I played more games. I hope I'll play better the next times

Btw. OXM Uk has a new article up. 343: Halo 4 "can't just regurgitate the same experience"

anything worth posting from the article? I can't read it from work and I'm feeling itchy for anything Halo since the beta playlist is coming.

 

[FyreWulff]

Anyone go into forge and see those 6 spaces reserved for the new maps of course?

Oh yeah, told Monkey about that. Six blank spots with the "NEW" star for DLC you don't have, but they all show Unearthed's picture and the A to Download takes you to Defiant.

edit: and the Firefight lobby shows a single blank spot with the new star, so yeah, someone flipped a switch a tad early

 

[Hypertrooper]

anything worth posting from the article? I can't read it from work and I'm feeling itchy for anything Halo since the beta playlist is coming.

Nothing new.

 

[TheOddOne]

Btw. OXM Uk has a new article up. 343: Halo 4 "can't just regurgitate the same experience"

Everytime I see the Halo 4 art trailer linked I watch it. Just need to.

 

[Falagard]

If 343 has yet to reveal anything concrete on Halo 4, a gallery of lush environment art aside, the developer's praise of competitor Call of Duty is suggestive. "There's a lot of things COD does beautifully that we should do better," O'Connor told OXM last month.

Such as?

 

[J10]

Thanks for your detailed insight...

I think my main issue is that the player encounters are too short. I prefer a more drawn out exchange.

 

[The Henery]

adding 85 bloom to the pistol and modifying the NR in some way.

If only the DMR was zero bloom I'd be happy.

Is it possible for them to do this without another update I wonder? I expect it's all or nothing when no bloom is applied but if it isn't that would balance it somewhat.

 

[Tawpgun]

Such as?

Player investment
Player reward
60 FPS

I think my main issue is that the player encounters are too short. I prefer a more drawn out exchange.

Eh, then that's you.

I hate the sluggish, slow pace of Reach. I don't want CoD and I don't want the Halo CE pistol with Reach levels of auto aim.

I want a Halo 2, even Halo 3 kill times. You feel more powerful and teamwork is still rewarded.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I think my main issue is that the player encounters are too short. I prefer a more drawn out exchange.

Play something else?. Competitive halo has always been about short and frequent encounters. And really the encounter time hasnt dropped much in ZBS but now if i lose i know its my fault and not because bloom screwed me over there's no excuse for a mechanic that doesn't work taking a kill i should of had.

 

[PooBone]

It's Sparkast time!

 

[vhfive]

Player investment
Player reward
60 FPS

yup and it's so good

Spoiler

haters gonna hate

 

[The Librarian]

My very quick, brief, first impressions of the TU Beta:
1. The pistol, in ZB, is absolutely ridiculous on mid-sized maps. It dominates at all ranges. There is no point in picking up or using any other weapon.
2. There isn't a noticeable difference between 100% bloom and 85% bloom.

Overall, I'd say it's alright so far. I like ZB more than 85% bloom. Wish I could strafe in Reach.

 

[Plywood]

I KILLED FITTY MEN

 

[kittens]

My first game of the TU Beta: Unchanged, all my team mates quit out.

FFFFFFUUUUU.

 

[Blinding]

I love going +17 and still losing.

I like 85% bloom, even that small of a change makes bloom that much more consistent. I still like zero bloom better tho.

 

[PooBone]

People who usually keep their ARs around even in CE Legendary runs are badasses, gotcha.


edit-

Beta hoppers??

Plural? Or does hopper mean gametype and not playlist?

I should probably google the meaning of "hopper"

I never drop the AR for the entire campaign on any difficulty. The other weapon slot is dedicated to shotgun or pistol, or on T&R, the sniper.

 

[Tawpgun]

I never drop the AR for the entire campaign on any difficulty. The other weapon slot is dedicated to shotgun or pistol, or on T&R, the sniper.

It does make Elite encounters more fun since you can't steamroll them with plasma weapons.

I hope the Halo 4 enemies won't be able to get taken out with P pistol, headshot. Made elites no challenge.

 

[The Real Napsta]

The kill times go:
Halo CE
Halo Reach 1.1
Halo 2 1.1/5
Halo 3
Halo Reach 1.0

 

[monome]

Nothing new.

thanks anyway.

I know I'm gonna shoot at new ennemies and will inner dialogue with Cortana but what will be the dynamic with other factions such as humans and possibly forunners?

 

[Deputy Moonman]

The kill times go:
Halo CE
Halo Reach 1.1
Halo 2 1.1/5
Halo 3
Halo Reach 1.0

I think the Reach kill time for the pistol is more than reasonable, considering the OP-ness of the non-power/non-precision weapons, the over abundance of actual power weapons, and the fact that you only have 8 bullets to make your kill, count. Just looking at those numbers on paper probably would, at first glance, appear a lot worse than it is, in my opinion.

My very quick, brief, first impressions of the TU Beta:
1. The pistol, in ZB, is absolutely ridiculous on mid-sized maps. It dominates at all ranges. There is no point in picking up or using any other weapon.
2. There isn't a noticeable difference between 100% bloom and 85% bloom.

Overall, I'd say it's alright so far. I like ZB more than 85% bloom. Wish I could strafe in Reach.

This is an interesting statement. I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with what you said. But from my perspective, it's the exact same for power weapons in vanilla matchmaking. Everyone just races off to try and pickup and abuse the power weapons, and there is no point in trying to do anything with any of the other weapons. And those power weapons are still going to be in the game. So they could potentially balance each other out.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I think the Reach kill time for the pistol is more than reasonable, considering the OP-ness of the non-power/non-precision weapons, the over abundance of actual power weapons, and the fact that you only have 8 bullets to make your kill, count. Just looking at those numbers on paper probably would, at first glance, appear a lot worse than it is, in my opinion.

I love ZB and Halo CE kill times. I'm not complaining.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Played a couple games in the TU playlist. In my first game two people in the opposing team quit before the game even started. Gotta love Xbox Live, but seriously something needs to be done about pre-load quitters for Halo 4.

Even at 85% bloom, with nerfed armour lock and damage bleedthrough the game's feeling a lot better. Though sprint + sword is so cheap now because of lack of melee clash.

Suggestion for the future: Since you guys at 343 are changing the speed of the pistol for the Anniversary playlist when that comes out, could you also change it to match the speed of the DMR for another gametype? I feel that ZBS with regular pistols seems optimal, given their range and scope. No nerfle/DMR. But the way it ends up changing close combat seems braindead because of their speed.

 

[Flame Lord]

Digging 85% bloom. Can't say the same for 0 bloom though.

 

[Striker]

yup and it's so good

Spoiler

haters gonna hate

You don't need 60 FPS in Halo. Just don't make superfluous things in the game that would have any slowdown. Lock it at 30 and it's completely fine.

 

[Flame Lord]

I think the Reach kill time for the pistol is more than reasonable, considering the OP-ness of the non-power/non-precision weapons, the over abundance of actual power weapons, and the fact that you only have 8 bullets to make your kill, count. Just looking at those numbers on paper probably would, at first glance, appear a lot worse than it is, in my opinion.

This is an interesting statement. I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with what you said. But from my perspective, it's the exact same for power weapons in vanilla matchmaking. Everyone just races off to try and pickup and abuse the power weapons, and there is no point in trying to do anything with any of the other weapons. And those power weapons are still going to be in the game. So they could potentially balance each other out.

In my opinion it makes more sense that the weapons on the map that you have to fight for are more powerful than the ones that you spawn with.

 

[Falagard]

Gotta love Xbox Live, but seriously something needs to be done about pre-load quitters for Halo 4.

Yeah, in-progress game joins, bots to replace missing players while matchmaking looks for new players to join the game, and a streamlined process to move from map to map.

 

[The Henery]

What. The. Fuck

I've played four games in the tu hoppers so far. I haven't even seen no bloom as an option much less got to play it. I think Ram really dun did got kicked in the nuts.

85% is decent

Pistol: the biggest improvement, feels like a beast compared to the ar again ala the Reach beta pistol

DMR: Not much perceptible difference, the final headshot wait is slightly shorter.

Needle Rifle: Needs to be full bloom. At 85% bloom it appears to be zero bloom. Is it glitched? Even if you hold it full auto the reticle never makes it outside of the circle. Will dominate DMR past a certain range.

Increase the weighting for zero bloom so it appears EVERY time on the first vote screen.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

In my opinion it makes more sense that the weapons on the map that you have to fight for are more powerful than the ones that you spawn with.

True, but it's not necessarily a fight for power weapons anymore. There are so many, you just keep running until you find an available pickup. And the respawn time on them is pretty fast. The idea of fighting over power weapons would make more sense to me if a map only had 1 or 2 power weapons, and not 3-4. Shotgun is totally a power weapon to me and the same with the concussion rifle. So on a map like Countdown, you have the Sword, Shotgun, and Concussion Rifle. Boardwalk, you have the Rockets, the Shotgun, the Sniper Rifle, and that weird Plasma Launcher thing. Swordbase, you have the Grenade Launcher, the Sniper Rifle, the Sword, and the Shotgun. Anyway, you get the idea. It's overkill to me in a game where regular weapons already take much longer to kill people with in addition to armor abilities.

Needle Rifle: Needs to be full bloom. At 85% bloom it appears to be zero bloom. Is it glitched? Even if you hold it full auto the reticle never makes it outside of the circle. Will dominate DMR past a certain range.

I love the Needle Rifle far more than the DMR. Shut up and take my money!!

 

[Ken]

Yeah, in-progress game joins, bots to replace missing players while matchmaking looks for new players to join the game, and a streamlined process to move from map to map.

That wouldn't work.

As for pre-load quitters on the map select screen, the game should detect the imbalanced teams and freeze the countdown (and even reset the vote process) until it can throw in another random.

 

[Rickenslacker]

First game of ZBS in matchmaking.

Opposing team gets an Inheritor who decides to continually suicide/shoot at his team. Poor guy with a score of 2 there messages us saying "Please, just kill us man." What a non-quitting trooper.

 

[Falagard]

That wouldn't work.

Thank you for your insightful and well thought out comments. I appreciate all the effort you put into the response.

Nothing can fix quitters. More severe bannings will just cause more problems. You'll end up with griefers - players that do not want to play the current game with you, but also don't want to quit and get banned, so they'll go idle, or just ruin your game.

The solution, IMHO, is to let the quitters quit, but have a mechanism for the game to continue to be enjoyable, by bringing in replacement players, and bots to fill the gap while replacements are found.

 

[Ken]

First game of ZBS in matchmaking.

Opposing team gets an Inheritor who decides to continually suicide/shoot at his team. Poor guy with a score of 2 there messages us saying "Please, just kill us man." What a non-quitting trooper.

It'd be cool if players like these received special, unremovable nameplates indicating their preference to shoot teammates or suicide and have matchmaking match these special players with other equally special players as teammates.

.

If you allow for replacement players, your going to get games of players entering mid-game not knowing what's happening, who has the power weapons, which locations are safe, and end up making mistakes that wouldn't be made by a player who was in the game from the start. Also, throwing in a player onto a losing team (usually the same team that has lost a player) will only make the new player want to leave as well. Why take a loss for a game you only played for the last 3/4th of the match? Letting players quit with no penalty would only increase the frequency of quitters in games.

Also, bots would be terrible. I think Gears 3 has decent AI, but they are still going -10 against good players. Imagine Halo AI as bots. People here have won games with an incomplete team versus a full team by changing their strategy knowing they are outnumbered. A bot will just run out as if it were equal teams and constantly get team-shotted. The game wouldn't be anymore enjoyable if you're constantly yelling at a bot to stop dying.

Bungie had a good idea going with their "match quitters with other quitters" idea. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be in the game or functioning at all.

 

[Hypertrooper]

First game of ZBS in matchmaking.

Opposing team gets an Inheritor who decides to continually suicide/shoot at his team. Poor guy with a score of 2 there messages us saying "Please, just kill us man." What a non-quitting trooper.

Guys matches:
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=812422604&player=JUGGALOxxDylan
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=812435710&player=JUGGALOxxDylan

And there are a lot more. Reset worthy?

 

[GhaleonEB]

My very quick, brief, first impressions of the TU Beta:
1. The pistol, in ZB, is absolutely ridiculous on mid-sized maps. It dominates at all ranges. There is no point in picking up or using any other weapon.
2. There isn't a noticeable difference between 100% bloom and 85% bloom.

Overall, I'd say it's alright so far. I like ZB more than 85% bloom. Wish I could strafe in Reach.

True story: after playing Deus Ex for a few weeks - itself not exactly a game that makes you feel spry - I played Firefight for a Challenge. And I couldn't tell whether I was host, not and lagging for a good five minutes, because the weighty player physics when I strafed felt indistinguishable from input lag. (I was host.) Playing a game where you moved when you moved made me forget just how poor Reach's player movement is.

It's my #1 pick for among Reach's additions that Halo 4 needs to amend.

 

[Gabotron ES]

I prefer 85% bloom to ZB.
All 85% matches I played were fast paced and I actually felt I knew what was going on, Reach should be 85% bloom.

Guys matches:
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=812422604&player=JUGGALOxxDylan
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=812435710&player=JUGGALOxxDylan

Why is this guy not banned? so sad.

 

[The Henery]

Plus I'm seeing gratuitous amounts of quitting and afk'ing already.

Zero bloom is ace though.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Anyone feel like joining up for some TU games?

Also here is an HD livestream of TU matches.

twitch.tv/devinolsen


Edit: Will be back in a few

 

[Judderman]

Anyone feel like joining up for some TU games?

Also here is an HD livestream of TU matches.

twitch.tv/devinolsen

I'll play some. GT: JUDDERMANG

 

[Falagard]

If you allow for replacement players, your going to get games of players entering mid-game not knowing what's happening, who has the power weapons, which locations are safe, and end up making mistakes that wouldn't be made by a player who was in the game from the start.

For social players this isn't a big deal (entering mid game, etc.), so perhaps it'd be something that might be enabled only in social playlists. It works in Gears which has power weapons and is highly dependent on map control, so I don't think it'll be a problem for Halo.

Also, throwing in a player onto a losing team (usually the same team that has lost a player) will only make the new player want to leave as well. Why take a loss for a game you only played for the last 3/4th of the match? Letting players quit with no penalty would only increase the frequency of quitters in games.

"Taking a loss" is only a problem for highly competitive players. Players who just want to have fun will try to rally back into a win, or just shrug it off. You'll be able to get into games faster by joining games in progress which might counter the fact that you joined a losing team.

Basically, mid game joins happens in many other games and doesn't seem to be a problem. Halo players who do not play other games tend to have tunnel vision about what works and what doesn't.

Also, bots would be terrible. I think Gears 3 has decent AI, but they are still going -10 against good players. Imagine Halo AI as bots. People here have won games with an incomplete team versus a full team by changing their strategy knowing they are outnumbered. A bot will just run out as if it were equal teams and constantly get team-shotted. The game wouldn't be anymore enjoyable if you're constantly yelling at a bot to stop dying.

Shadowrun had decent bots with a play style similar to Halo. My belief is that with the right team of programmers they can do bots properly, so to just shrug bots off completely is short sighted.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Bots are fine for offline MP and customs, but they have no place in competitive matchmaking IMO.

Resets are a drop in the ocean.

Despite the reputation of the COD playerbase, I've encountered so much more griefing when playing Halo, because the way the game systems are set up supports it. Friendly fire and being able to constantly attack your teammates without killing them (therefore going unpunished), players can't join games in progress, players can repeatedly kill themselves to take their team score down...

Even in the hardcore COD gametypes which do feature friendly fire, such people are rare, probably because of the diminishing returns (pass the threshold of 3 kills and you automatically die and have a longer and longer spawn time).

I really am surprised that this is something that hasn't been improved over the course of the series.

Play with a full party, problem solved.

 

[Photolysis]

Guys matches:
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=812422604&player=JUGGALOxxDylan
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=812435710&player=JUGGALOxxDylan

And there are a lot more. Reset worthy?

Resets are a drop in the ocean.

Despite the reputation of the COD playerbase, I've encountered so much more griefing when playing Halo, because the way the game systems are set up supports it. Friendly fire and being able to constantly attack your teammates without killing them (therefore going unpunished), players can't join games in progress, players can repeatedly kill themselves to take their team score down...

Even in the hardcore COD gametypes which do feature friendly fire, such people are rare, probably because of the diminishing returns (pass the threshold of 3 kills and you automatically die and have a longer and longer spawn time).

I really am surprised that this is something that hasn't been improved over the course of the series.

 

[Ken]

Your proposed system works in Gears because Gears is round based, allowing for map control resets and an opportunity for your replacement teammates to play a round from the start.

As for bots, regardless of their effectiveness, it's just not as satisfying killing a bot versus a real player, at least for me.

 

[Karl2177]

Is regular Slayer in the TU Beta playlist 85%? I don't like it.

 

[TheOddOne]

Your proposed system works in Gears because Gears is round based, allowing for map control resets and an opportunity for your replacement teammates to play a round from the start.

As for bots, regardless of their effectiveness, it's just not as satisfying killing a bot versus a real player, at least for me.

Co-sign.

 

[Tunavi]

I'd love to play the beta but just like zerofire, I've got class and work until eleven oclock tonight (it's 10:15 for me now). See you guys in 12 hours. Hopefully you guys will be streaming while i'm at work