ViewtifulJC
Banned
I shook my head at that decision so hard when I first played it
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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
I shook my head at that decision so hard when I first played it
squidhands
Member
Indeed. Never before have I gotten so tired of seeing the same maps over and over again no matter what I play in Reach.
BlueScrote
Member
What do you consider to be a "few good maps"? To me, 5 maps wouldn't be enough to support all the different style of playlists.
Bolded made me laugh at work. Shame on you.
I do believe Bungie experimented more than necesseray with Reach due to them knowing Halo was not their baby anymore and probably because their next game will heavily implement such a type of use of game assets.
If Destinity is an actual MMO FPS, it pretty much has to make use of the its content for different types of use. Say the world you're building on is gonna be attacked and stuff like that.
Hopefully my tears got them enough feedback to actually make it good next time.
You mean sir!
I already said 5 was a random number, just a way to assuage my clear thinking that many maps do not necessarily create many good moments.
Having you laugh at work is my cruel revenge since having to scratch one's beard to hide a twitching smile is one of the guilty pleasures of reading gaf at work while trying to stay unnoticed
I love halo, 'cause I feel it's the FPS Nintendo should have done. And that's high praise from me, a guy who spent much of the family fortune on japanese imported supe famicom games he couldn't even read.
Hypertrooper
Member
I think this was only for Boneyard the case. Every other map was planned as Campaign sections first.
I think they tried to build a war campaign first, then probably designed campaign environments in a way to easily create MP maps out of them.
So it's pretty much an egg or chicken kinda situation whan it comes to how assets and geometries were designed.
Amazing how good the the idea worked (scenery wise) in Halo 2 but failed in Reach.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
By a fucking mile. Such trash. I'm so glad to have some good BTB maps in Reach finally.
There's no way. There would have been massive outrage about this. It's got to be in a ViDoc some where.
True, thats a good point. You might have just convinced me.
However, I don't like paying for something before I know what it is. I don't want to be paying for Firefight maps.
And I'm sure a fair amount of people won't pay the $30+ for DLC
Hypertrooper
Member
Wait for FyreWulff. He should have an answer for this.
Hummmm, season pass is still a new thing.
I thought most people who got them were guys who, like, were gonna get all the DLC anyway.
Not sure the discount is luring this much more people.
It still is a good indicator of how much of a dedicated userbase you have as a developper.
If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, you are incorrect.
The blockout and design of the maps were done as separate entities, and then were set to a campaign level, givin an art pass, and then fleshed out and finished using assets from the level palette. Design changes were negotiated as necessary to make the fit work, and that was what was the biggest problem in implementing the maps into the campaign. Level designers need certain things, and mp designers don't want people messing with their shit.
Boneyard was culled from the campaign and iterated upon to make it a fitting campaign and invasion playspace.
bobs...onGaf
Member
To be honest, its the same either way. You cant build a map thats going to be used in multiplayer and campaign and then just design it 100% for the multiplayer and throw it into campaign afterwards. Your going to end up modifing it even if its just slightly to work in the campaign.
You cant tell me that the Reach maps as they are look like they were designed 100% with multiplayer in mind can you? The only map that bucks the trend is Reflection, but that was barely used in the campaign, it was thrown in just for the sake of it lol.
So yeah, the multiplayer maps designed with Reach in mind to me seemed like they were all polluted with the fact that they where going to also be in campaign.
Either way its lose lose, the campaign is going to suffer if the map is heavily designed for multiplayer, the multiplayer is going to suffer because the map has to be altered to be shoehorned into campaign, and aesthetics wise we miss out on funky maps that take place outside of the main game area. I really liked seeing the weird locations the multiplayer maps took us to in Halo 1/ 2 and 3. With Reach it wasn't quite the same.
Gabotron ES
Member
When is the new dashboard update happening?
ElRenoRaven
Member
I agree with you there 100 percent. The thing I loved about the maps in Halo, Halo 2, and Halo 3 is that for the most part minus one or two they were independent maps. Each had it's own story to it. This was lost completely in Reach until the DLC. It's weird because even though they might have minor changes in campaign I just don't care to explore them like I did each level in the previous games. So I really hope 343 goes away from doing that in future games.
It leaves beta this week I believe.
My biggest gripe with using the Metro Dashboard is that the biggest thing you see when you first boot it up is not the game you put in and want to play, but a multi-page advertisement.
Maybe they just really love the vehicles on those maps (banshee whores on Spire, actually a scorpion on Boneyard)? I really have no idea. It is one of the reasons why I haven't played in the standard BTB playlist since Annv. or the TU beta playlist was released. And now I won't until it gets the TU settings.
Also, I really don't like Anchor 9, especially with 12 people on it, all using evade, with 100% bloom. Pretty much made me want to punch myself in the face yesterday.
Halo Multiplayer is obviously the priority though. Also, they shoe horned Reflection in the campaign so it can be done.
ncsuDuncan
Member
From what I recall, all the maps started as multiplayer maps and were then integreated into campaign (except for Boneyard, which started as a campaign space and was turned into a terrible multiplayer "map").
I think the idea was that they would save time by reducing the amount of work required (especially for the art team) and produce multiplayer maps that matched the visual quality of campaign spaces. By having an area serve double duty, multiplayer maps would benefit from the extra polishing time campaign normally receives while campaign areas would benefit from the more deliberate/nuanced layout that multiplayer normally receives.
I'm sure it was a good idea on paper, but with 20/20 hindsight it looks like it may have put too much pressure on the schedule, forcing more bottlenecks and creating more design constraints.
Supposedly they almost cut Reflection entirely - it was only saved when dmiller found a way to integrate it into New Alexandria.
I think the idea was that they would save time by reducing the amount of work required (especially for the art team) and produce multiplayer maps that matched the visual quality of campaign spaces. By having an area serve double duty, multiplayer maps would benefit from the extra polishing time campaign normally receives while campaign areas would benefit from the more deliberate/nuanced layout that multiplayer normally receives.
I'm sure it was a good idea on paper, but with 20/20 hindsight it looks like it may have put too much pressure on the schedule, forcing more bottlenecks and creating more design constraints.
Supposedly they almost cut Reflection entirely - it was only saved when dmiller found a way to integrate it into New Alexandria.
This fellow Gaffer is the reason why I'm not feeling sad about Bungie leaving Halo behind.
I'm also of mind that MS managed to fuck things up with their demands which in turn made Bungie's decision to fuck things up easier to make.
Forunner + Master Chief = massive chance at redemption
There were certainly bottlenecks from implementing a campaign+MP design but i'm willing to bet my balls Bungie knew it would suck and wanted to experiment nonetheless.
That's the huge issue with Reach though, a lot of the components looked like good ideas on paper, but were either poorly implemented or didn't pan out to expectations.
bobs...onGaf
Member
If they were going to shoehorn 12 or so maps into a Halo Campaign Reflection style, that campaign wouldn't have very many enemies in it lol. The campaign would really suffer for it.
In my opinion its clear that the CoD and Halo Reach approach of reusing the same game areas in multiplayer and campaign is weaker than custom designing maps which work for theyre specific mode. Sure, it probably requires more manpower and resources, but its a Halo game, it deserves the best.
Bugger spawn traps around every corner
Hypertrooper
Member
I know you don't care, but I uploaded every photo from my Seattle trip. Don't be excited about them, because they are shitty. If you still want to see them, here you go.
That match could have had Benny Hill playing behind it and it wouldn't have been out of place. Trying to run the bomb in there was like slamming into a brick wall made of rolling spartans and grenade explosions.
Can we all please stop saying shit like this. Bungie does not have limited resources they have terrible project managers who can't put together a great campaign AND multiplayer experience to save their lives.
GTA3 had something like 30 developers on it, and they were building entire video game conventions up from scratch. That's limited resources. Bungie works out of an old movie theater complex, had Microsoft paying the bills, 3 years of dev time, and was iterating on the same game they've been making for a decade. That is far, far, far, from limited, that's a blessing.
Steelyuhas
Member
Or scratch all of that and make the matchmaking algorithms match you up with players with the same DLC as you. Other AAA games have been doing it for years, it was inexcusable that it wasn't in Reach, if it's not in Halo 4, I will not buy DLC for it.
The maps were created as MP maps first, and then integrated into campaign, but Bungie admitted that they would not do that again, and that it impacted some of the maps and ones that made it into the game. A "Lockout-esque" map was cut because it's location in campaign disappeared (it was replaced with The Cage), and Reflection was almost cut because they didn't have a place for it in campaign until very late in development.
The first thing it does is go to the 'home' tab, which as the disc in your Xbox highlighted already and all you have to do is press A to boot it. On the old dashboard, you were taken to the 'Spotlight', and have to change to a different tab to see what game you have in there.
Blame matchmaking for that one. Anchor 9 is very clearly a 4v4 map, and obviously evade should be restricted to elites like it was designed for.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/default.aspx?player=KoolAidShoto
lol gg TheOddOne. Even getting donged on feels better without randoms
lol gg TheOddOne. Even getting donged on feels better without randoms
Jealous. And nostalgic seeing photos of Seattle. I'll be back! *shakes fist*
Well it shows up in Premium battle, of course that playlist is gone after today so...
And yea, evade is fine on elites because they are huge. Whoever decided to put evade on spartans needs... well, I don't know, but they don't make very good design decisions. Is it like really hard to change the loadouts available in certain playlists?
Ugh why do I hear jetpacks in Tashi's stream. At least its a pickup... but gravity lift was better.
ncsuDuncan
Member
Yeah, Bungie is pretty spoiled. I'm surprised they were able to ship something between all those naps. GTA3 is a much better Halo game. GTA4 was even better, a bugless, perfectly balanced experience superior to Reach in every way.
If Microsoft had any sense they'd jut buy up Rockstar and slap the Halo 4 name on GTA5.
By your logic, Duke Nukem Forever should have been the greatest game in the history of mankind.
It is.
YES, YES! come to the Dark Side.
With its power you will see Bungie tried to fuck Halo up before leaving it behind.
Hahah indeed.
I hope you don't mind the people I had with me, those folk are hilarious.
Think before you post. Duke Nukem didn't have limited resources, it had shit project managers, just like Bungie. GTA3 had no budget, and no manpower, and a publisher that didn't believe in the game. That's limited fucking resources. Bungie was making yet another Halo game out of their Cinemagic building with blank checks along the way.
Result? Terrible engine, 3 hour campaign, 8 mp maps reused from campaign assets. Bravo to all involved. Oh yeah I forgot it's Elamite Warrior and Hysteria's fault.
Yes, the default selection being on the load game button rather than the spotlight channel is a huge improvement over the NXE, but still the biggest thing on your screen on the home page is an advertisement. On a service that you are paying for.
I don't even understand what they were attempting with Boneyard or Spire. There are huge chunks of those maps that people rarely travel to or fight in. It's like they're maps built for 32 player instead of 16 or whatever it is. I kind of feel the BTB map sizes have been too big in the game. Way too big.
The Librarian
Banned
It comes out tomorrow, doesn't it?
In-between stirring hate at Bungie, i still want to say, the campaign while not being long or explorative enough, gave me a great time. Even though I'm no expert at Halo, I still got burned on the maps much sooner than expected. But matchmaking in Firefight was a saving grace.
I maintain my idea that although Bungie fucked things up on purpose, MS certainly gave them carte-blanche to do so having 343i up and running a bit too late into the game to check on things and probably setting a number of demands restraining creativity and forcing economics down Bungie's throat.
Blank checks, cinemagic were never offered for free Bungie or not.
Hypertrooper
Member
It does.
hahaha
About 120, but you were super close.
Most conspiracy theories seem totally crazy and baseless. This one though....wait, no, still crazy. Carry on with the tinfoil hats.
Steelyuhas
Member
Well you should realized that there was zero chance of advertisements not being front and center. They weren't going to take away advertisements, they are trying to make money. I am happy that there was an improvement made to where you can access your disc tray and quickplay without changing a screen.
Plus, the big center panel is all services for the Xbox, and it will take you to them if you click on them, so I don't mind that much, as opposed to the bottom right tile which is an advertisement unrelated to Xbox.