The Librarian
Banned
urk said:
Thanks you two.Gui_PT said:
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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Zeouterlimits
Member
Agreed actually, would like to hear the reasoning behind this.kylej said:
squidhands
Member
Played Assault on the Control Room last night; it was so good. I turned on the flashlight a lot. :lolbig ander said:Instead of watching Bladed stream CE, you guys should all go play it. I'm about to.
DiabolicalBagel
Member
Zeouterlimits said:
My guess is that it's because Mr.retarded-monkey-no-thumbs complains about the sniper being too effective, especially in close range combat, in the hands of a skilled player.
Wait... I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of competitve play; best man wins.
Oh well, let's nerf it because the invalids are losing to skilled folk. 'Fairness'
I'm listening right now and I like what I'm hearing. The fact that bullet spread isn't random anymore, it's skill based and brings back shot pacing that was present in Halo CE, most notably the Pistol. Bungie is using the same accuracy/reticule model that Shadowrun has, where there is an optimum accuracy, then the most inaccurate model when you are firing the weapon too fast and lose accuracy. If you don't know how the SR model works, download the demo and play Training chapter 1, they explain and show it there.urk said:
In Halo CE the bloom was there but you're reticule didn't properly represent it, now hopefully for Reach it will be there and also visible to the player so people will understand why they aren't hitting the target. Hopefully all the weapons in Reach will have spread and bloom like they do in SR, but at the same time not be affected by movement ( to retain the Halo style).
Combining this info with the DMR and it seems like a truly skill based rifle will finally be in a Halo game. Similarly to Shadowrun's rifle it will hopefully be headshot, and range based with an emphasis on shot pacing and placement.
In light of this new info, it will be interesting to see the uproar among die-hard H2 and H3 (if they exist) fans. They have never had to worry about skill based weapon spread and the BR from H3 and H2 is replaced with a balanced version of the H1 pistol essentially equaling what is currently the SR rifle.
Hopefully Sage Merrill will be able to do more great things for Reach to make it as competitive and skill-based as Shadowrun. I am still skeptical, but I now have a more positive outlook on Reach
It sounds to me like the kind of small change that gets made from one sequel to another as the weapon balance is tweaked in response to changes in gameplay and new weapons and such being added, and we might consider not freaking out until there's some more context and detail (and maybe a beta).DiabolicalBagel said:
But I'm probably jumping to conclusions.
plagiarize
Banned
snipers piss other people off and turn them away from the game?Zeouterlimits said:
pure speculation on my part, but the idea isn't to make the best pro gaming fairly balanced competition certified online FPS.
it's Halo. it's to make something fun and accessible to everyone. getting sniped is pretty hard on new players.
pure speculation like i say.
but then again real sniper rifles are pretty useless in close range combat... you can make the skill argument. they can make the realism argument if they want.
i'm guessing it's the 'wide appeal' argument though.
Halo isn't counterstrike. it's the online game for everyone right?
DiabolicalBagel said:
Guy wakes up in the morning, his wife decks him.
"What the hell was that for?"
"I had a dream last night that you slept with my sister."
"But I DIDN'T!"
"In my dream, you did."
That's what I hear when I read this response. You make a random guess about why Bungie might have made this change (face it - you have no fucking clue why this change happened), and then you get all snide and sarcastic towards them for making the change for that reason. IT'S NOT THEIR REASON - IT'S YOURS. HOLD THE SARCASM UNTIL THEY'VE TOLD YOU THEIRS.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
DiabolicalBagel said:
Please people, don't call things "nerfed" until we have played the game. This Beta couldn't come soon enough.
DiabolicalBagel
Member
I did say "my guess". My guess based on playing MM; pretty much every game I have played I have heard three or four complaints about the sniper. There is no end to the complaints and expletives I've had screamed into my hear because of that rifle.
While it is true that it could have been changed for many, many reasons it is likely because it is overpowered in the eyes of the majority.
There's no denying that in the hands of a good player that rifle can absolutely dominate.
I'm just being snide because I know just how much of a difference that little bit extra time can make. With a little change like that you can turn what was a power weapon into nothing more than a very nice ornament.
It's not as though I'm speculating on some new feature we know barely anything about. This is something we know, this is something with which we know what a difference like that would make.
While it is true that it could have been changed for many, many reasons it is likely because it is overpowered in the eyes of the majority.
There's no denying that in the hands of a good player that rifle can absolutely dominate.
I'm just being snide because I know just how much of a difference that little bit extra time can make. With a little change like that you can turn what was a power weapon into nothing more than a very nice ornament.
It's not as though I'm speculating on some new feature we know barely anything about. This is something we know, this is something with which we know what a difference like that would make.
I will say, as a person who is decent at the game but hardly great with the sniper rifle, that I would like to see it tweaked. In the hands of a skilled player on The Pit, Valhalla, and Last Resort, it can be ridiculously dominant to the degree that no other weapon in the game can be. People just pick that thing up and practice and practice with it until they can no scope you in the face while scratching their balls and eating a hamburger. God forbid MLG ub3rl337 sNiPa or whoever gets ahold of the SECOND sniper rifle and now has 24 rounds in which they can often get like 20 kills. That's silly and goes against what makes Halo's combat so great, in my opinion.
The news about the sniper is great in my eyes. But like everyone else is saying, we won't REALLY know how it fits until we play the game.
The news about the sniper is great in my eyes. But like everyone else is saying, we won't REALLY know how it fits until we play the game.
Zeouterlimits
Member
If only Claude, if only.Louis Wu said:Heh - try to be in San Francisco in March, then.
I'd totally go if I had a 1k lying around.
:'(
Also: Thanks to everyone, Ghal, Wu, etc making my point for me, Bungie aren't flip about changing things
if anything they seem to resist it
Did ye not hear how if anything the DMR for all intended purposes requires more skill than the BR did?
i really hope bungie puts more emphasis to the weight of the character
a spartan shouldn't be floating around like he's on the moon or some shit
the jump height in halo 3 is fine, but the falling speed should be at least doubled
and i want a loud thudding sound when a spartan hits the ground after a jump/fall
this isn't some spiky-haired skinny anime kid, it's a heavily armored huge-ass warrior hitting the ground with full force!
on a related note, i want some seriously badass footsteps, not all tink-tink-tink like i'm controlling a mouse
i want some serious booming shit, a spartan is essentially a tank on legs, right?
a spartan shouldn't be floating around like he's on the moon or some shit
the jump height in halo 3 is fine, but the falling speed should be at least doubled
and i want a loud thudding sound when a spartan hits the ground after a jump/fall
this isn't some spiky-haired skinny anime kid, it's a heavily armored huge-ass warrior hitting the ground with full force!
on a related note, i want some seriously badass footsteps, not all tink-tink-tink like i'm controlling a mouse
i want some serious booming shit, a spartan is essentially a tank on legs, right?
NullPointer
Member
Nobody should ever ask "who cares?", because the answer is pretty damn obvious.Gui_PT said:
Feeling the armor's weight would be pretty cool.
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
I'm liking how Reach is influenced by Shadowrun. Shadowrun was an amazing game that didn't get the nearly the credit it deserved.
The Librarian
Banned
Ironborn said:
Gui_PT said:
This shit be some hardcore physics.
NullPointer
Member
The pricing was obscene.AwesomeSyrup said:
I think it would do damn well as a budget priced XBLA download.
squidhands
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Yup.
i'm pretty sure weight = mass * gravitational forceGui_PT said:It's the future. I'm sure those armors have almost no mass even though they're heavy.
Especially because that would mean I'm right
according to the fiction, the armor is heavy as shit, and reach has similar gravity as earth iirc, so i want to hear the earth shaking when i jump!
edit: even a person without armor would fall quicker than a spartan in halo 3 btw :lol
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
Yeah it should have been about $30 or $40 but it was still an awesome game.NullPointer said:
electricpirate
Member
Gui_PT said:
Neither mass nor weight define how fast something falls.
.Ironborn said:
I'll just pretend you agreed with me and say no one cares, or no one should care how fast a Spartan falls. And they shouldn't feel like a tank when they move. The armor is heavy, yes, but they're super strong!
Besides, it would feel wrong if they felt stiff and heavy and could still take out Elites who are really fast and agile.
It'd be awful being in an encounter with Elites and having to thing "Man, my armor sucks balls. It's too heavy and not very maneuverable. I need sum oil up in my stuffs"
Spartans have to move and feel like they're an actual threat to Elites.
I_D
Member
Gui_PT said:
He's not saying they should move like tanks, just that they should fall faster.
And he's right. Throughout the entire Halo series, whenever you jump, you just sorta slow-fall back down to the ground.
Personally, I think it's pretty useful, since it lets you get easy headshots on the idiots who like to jump around a bunch while shooting. :lol
Won't this change only affect bad players who grab the sniper to spam body shots for cheap kills? Good snipers will continue to own with their headshots. I don't mind getting domed, but these two shot kills while you're in the open are a bit of a cheap way to die. So if they make these harder, as a worthless sniper, I appreciate the fact that I will be probably getting killed less by other bad snipers going for these.kylej said:
The Librarian
Banned
Ain't no invisible stuff making me do anything.electricpirate said:Neither mass nor weight define how fast something falls.
Fixed.Ironborn said:
electricpirate
Member
While both of you need to go back to remedial physics, I think Ironborn makes a point that's valid in a different way.
The weight of a spartan should be seen not in the rate of a fall, but in the force he exherts on the earth. a thousand pounds dropped from 8 feet (or propelling itself 8feet high) exherts tremendous force, which should be seen and felt by the player. Betters sounds on landing would be cheap computationally, clouds of dust, and earth cracking like that ironman pic would be better, but probably not worth the cycles they would require.
The weight of a spartan should be seen not in the rate of a fall, but in the force he exherts on the earth. a thousand pounds dropped from 8 feet (or propelling itself 8feet high) exherts tremendous force, which should be seen and felt by the player. Betters sounds on landing would be cheap computationally, clouds of dust, and earth cracking like that ironman pic would be better, but probably not worth the cycles they would require.
did you even read what i wrote? i didn't say they should be less maneuverable (actually, if anything, i wouldn't mind a slight increase in running speed), they should FALL faster because they're heavyGui_PT said:
i want to feel the physical presence of the spartan, i feel like i'm controlling a floating cam in halo 3
think crackdown agent: super maneuverable but still falls quickly and lands with a massive, earth-cracking thud
Immortal_Daemon said:
Hey says they should feel heavy.
Millions of dollars were spent on these armors. It's ridiculous that they should feel or sound heavy.
And are you really telling me you've put some thought into this?
"Aw man, I just destroyed a Scarab on my own! That was AWESOME! I fell way too slow when I jumped off though. That ruined the whole encounter"
I just thought of something. ODST. They feel heavy and humanish. They fall faster than Spartans. Try playing Halo 3 and then change to ODST. It sucks!
EazyB said:
Don't you start! :lol
are you playing dense?Gui_PT said:
the million-dollar mjolnir armor is still made out of conventional metals and according to halo lore weighs half a ton
research doesn't mean they make it lighter, it means they find a way for a spartan to lug this heavy-ass armor around
i didn't say it ruined everything, but it was kinda detrimental to the experience and would feel very deplaced in the "serious" setting of reach
ODSTs don't jump as high or run as fast as spartans, that's why they feel weak, it's not the falling speed
like i said, check crackdown: you're super powerful and jump all over the place, yet you never feel floaty
DiabolicalBagel
Member
All this pseudo-physics is gonna give me a headache. smh.
NullPointer
Member
"Its a game".Gui_PT said:
feedback is gud.
In crackdown you land with a bang. Sooo satisfying.
I'm just going to declare myself the winner.
Because I really feel like that's a silly request.
"They should fall 1.7 times faster! And they should crush the ground when they fall!"
That's the last thing you should be worrying about to be honest.
Your main concern should be that the AR will not be the strongest weapon in the game. And that is just wrong.
Because I really feel like that's a silly request.
"They should fall 1.7 times faster! And they should crush the ground when they fall!"
That's the last thing you should be worrying about to be honest.
Your main concern should be that the AR will not be the strongest weapon in the game. And that is just wrong.
The Librarian
Banned
American physics > UK (and European) physics.Gui_PT said:
by the same logic, you could also say guns in the future are supposed to sound as weak as halo 3's, yet everyone wants them to sound more powerfulGui_PT said:
guys, it's the future, guns are supposed to sound weak, embrace it :lol
crackdown is definitely less floaty than halo 3, you always feel the weight behind the characters actions. if you want a different example, just look at hulk in the movies. he's jumping around like he's on crack, but he never looks like he's floating around.
i'm not from the usa btw.
edit:
this man knows what i'm talking about.NullPointer said:
primarily, this isn't even about falling speeds, it's about sound design
just like making weapons feel more powerful isn't primarily about the damage they deal but about the sound they make
Zeouterlimits
Member
Pet Peeve: Just say European next time.Dax01 said: