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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed

N

Nutter

Member
Tashi0106 said:
I'm glad Halo doesn't need gimmicks to keep me coming back.
Click to expand...
To be honest all these extra challenges and exp[cR] additions are to keep others from dropping the game. 2 years later I WILL still be playing Reach, just like Halo 3. I do not need any motivation.
Though getting better at MLG seems like a good motivation as any. :p
 
F

FourDoor

Member
LukeSmith said:
An upcoming interview will clarify this more - but one of the big takeaways from Halo 3 and Recon is that not giving players clear paths to desired end results is hacked recon XBL accounts. If you want something - you'll see it, save for it, and spend on it. Opportunity cost is king, and we're banking on there being plenty that you'll want.
Click to expand...

Fixed for you... :D

I like the open endedness that you alluding to as to what our end goals for armor can be. In H3 it was either all about everyone and their moms wanting Recon or the Recon haters who thought it was dumb to want to get the Recon armor attention. And then there are the special ones here who like pink Elite armor. I think I fall in the latter category but change pink with yellow and elite with odst. :lol
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
That'd be cool if you can gift credits. I didn't really care for armor permutations in Halo 3 and I probably won't care for more than 1 set of armor for Reach so it would be cool if I can give out my points to friends who need it and stuff.
 
K

kuYuri

Member
Dani said:
Except the rewards are aesthetic only and have no influence on gameplay. =)
Click to expand...

That's how alot of the rewards are in RSV2. The vast majority are new camos, helmets, etc.

Also, I'm mostly talking about the fact that the character you create carries into singleplayer and multiplayer.

In Vegas 1, you always played as Logan Keller in singleplayer and he always looked the same and could not be changed. In Vegas 2, you play as Bishop and you can completely change how Bishop looks and that's also the same character you use in multiplayer.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Unfortunately, the trend in multiplayer shooters is toward making the player a lone wolf with control over how he engages with the game and the tools he has by default to do that, and I think it's for the most part quite bad design. It decreases the need for players to move intelligently to secure weapon and map control with their teammates, and so increases the tendency of players to camp and play individually. There are games that direct player movement and coordination in other ways (Battlefield springs to mind), but they still suffer from silly issues like players spawning en masse as snipers and ignoring objectives, instead of actually having to go and contest the one sniper rifle on the map, and then have to preserve its ammo, control its sphere of influence (in coordination with teammates who by design can't also have snipers), and know when it will be time to go and contest it again. I imagine if you had some sort of heat map displaying player movement on a CoD map it would be largely chaotic, with a few hotspots where choke points and camping are ideal; whereas a similar map of a Halo map (in a game between great players) would be quite graceful and interpretable.

Weapons in Halo are chess pieces: they always serve the same role and function, they always start in the same place, everyone has access to them, and the board is level. Weapons and perks (or equivalent) in other games are like prime real estate in a game of Monopoly (albeit an admittedly less luck-based one). And eventually some players have a ton of hotels on Boardwalk. To put it mildly, the idea of spawning into a Halo game with a red-dot sniper rifle and super-speedy "light armour" I just purchased from a menu is noxious to me.

Thinking about it, Halo: Reach's "reward arc", as Luke calls it, is probably going to be less satisfying than Modern Warfare 2's is to a proponent of that game... but that's only because Bungie are (thankfully) unwilling to sacrifice the largely-level playing field of a Halo match to satisfy everyone's WoW and grinding instincts. It also looks like they are trying to implement a series of shorter reward arcs (seasons in the Arena feed into this, as do daily or weekly challenges, as does deeper and more incremental customization), rather than the entire span of post-launch, which risked the loss of players' interest, and eventually encouraged second accounts.
 
R

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
From MTV, December 2011

MTV Poops On Modern Warfare 3 Multiplayer


We've Seen This Before

With Modern Warfare 3, Treyarch is promising to double the weapon unlocks and perks. It also is promising to have even faster and bigger text flashing on the screen at all times. The game's current closest analog would probably be "Halo Reach," which let players earn credits in single and multiplayer. Credits unlocked new customization options, like armor, but thankfully have no impact on gameplay. Bungie went the other way by making all of the unlocks purely cosmetic. Thank goodness.

It's no different from "Modern Warfare 2." In "MW2" you unlocked ridiculously unbalanced weapons by playing online matches. It was tied into your ranks, but the end result was exactly the same as what they're now proposing. Unbalanced gameplay. People not playing for objectives. Camping. A real clusterfuck of sorts.

A Big Ass Carrot that Rewards Racist 13 Year Olds On Xbox Live

And here's the problem with that: It's too much. Unlocking new weapons and ranks may be enough to justify me playing for another hour, and satisfy my ADD by giving me that "Just one more match" feel. And there's the whole carrot-on-a-stick mentality in online games these days, and what Bungie did in Reach countered this trend and ended it for good. Modern Warfare 3 gives me back that carrot. Unfortunatley they made it twice as big and shoved up my asshole. No lube, either.

What Could've Been Done

What I'd like to see are no meaningful unlocks. I want skill to stand out. I'm gonna propose something that would change the foundation of "Modern Warfare" gameplay, but I think it's time: No more unlocks, perks, killstreaks, or any of that goddamn bullshit. Instead, everyone starts with the same weapon. Then you gotta shoot your way, like a man, to find a better weapon. Remember the golden days of FPS? Unreal? Quake? Yeah, I want those days back.

Better Luck Next Time

Now granted, this is a massive overhaul of the "Modern Warfare" franchise that simply won't happen in "MW3," but I think it's due. Players want to feel like the 6 hours they put into the game on Saturday was actually fun. Killstreaks, weapon unlocks, perks, while perhaps enjoyed by some, just creates a mess of a game. In fact, they give me headaches. And then I clutch my controller and bash it against my head. Then I find myself screaming at the television. Then I go on boards like NeoGAF and look at the hot woman thread and masturbate to alleviate my tension. Then that's not enough so I look at the thread the next day at work. Then I get fired. Thanks, Activision.

I realize what I'm inviting here: A large amount of hate from "MW2" fans who think I should just go and play "Halo Reach." But I feel like there may be a group of you out there who feel like these sort of changes are due for the franchise, and that drastic shifts need to be made to keep "Modern Warfare" as addictive and entertaining as it once was. I also realize that there are elements of "MW3" that have yet to be revealed, and my issues may be mitigated by other features in the game.
Click to expand...
 
W

Wizman23

Banned
LukeSmith said:
The Daily flavor of Challenges absolutely need to avoid the specificity of say "Kill 2 Players at Once with the Spartan Laser in a Ranked playlist." An example of a Challenge we'd like to stay away from is "Earn a Sniper Spree in a game." I'm fully aware of the horrific consequences that would be introduced into the day's ecosystem by dangling a carrot in front of players to use a particular weapon to great success.

Instead of that, imagine something akin to "Earn Any Spree in Multiplayer Matchmaking today."



The reward arc in Reach will be balanced taking this sort of behavior in mind.
Click to expand...

Does this mean no more multiplayer achievements either? I sure hope so. For as much bitching as I do about MW2 one thing they did do right was keep every single achievement tied to the campaign or co op.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Strider2K99 said:
That's how alot of the rewards are in RSV2. The vast majority are new camos, helmets, etc.

Also, I'm mostly talking about the fact that the character you create carries into singleplayer and multiplayer.

In Vegas 1, you always played as Logan Keller in singleplayer and he always looked the same and could not be changed. In Vegas 2, you play as Bishop and you can completely change how Bishop looks and that's also the same character you use in multiplayer.
Click to expand...

That's cool. I haven't played Vegas 1 or 2 and I was going by the scant comparisons that are being made heavily referencing the stat altering properties of the Vegas 2 customisation.
 
W

Wizman23

Banned
Tashi0106 said:
jordan.jpg
Click to expand...

This picture still hurts 21 years after it happened. Hopefully my misery as a lifelong Cleveland sports fan will come to an end this June.
 
F

Foxy Fox 39

Banned
I wasn't a fan of that MTV writeup but I feel there could be some balance implemented in what he said about weapons. In a team deathmatch game I feel as we're playing territories. Making sure to stay on top of heavy/1 shot kill weapons.

I don't think throwing that system away altogether would be the answer but I do feel that was the one thing the article was close to addressing. In a TD game I'd like to be more worried about my gameplay style and helping the team kill than worrying about what weapon is spawning where.

I actually have no solutions, and I know for most this is fundamentally Halo, but I wish that an even ground could be met; between camping for weapon spawns (or traveling nearby, waiting the allotted time, and telling your teammates that rockets are spawned) and not having to completely focus gameplay on the aspect of weapon spawning.

ps. Don't kill me Halo Gaf :(
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Shake Appeal said:
Unfortunately, the trend in multiplayer shooters is toward making the player a lone wolf with control over how he engages with the game and the tools he has by default to do that, and I think it's for the most part quite bad design. It decreases the need for players to move intelligently to secure weapon and map control with their teammates, and so increases the tendency of players to camp and play individually. There are games that direct player movement and coordination in other ways (Battlefield springs to mind), but they still suffer from silly issues like players spawning en masse as snipers and ignoring objectives, instead of actually having to go and contest the one sniper rifle on the map, and then have to preserve its ammo, control its sphere of influence (in coordination with teammates who by design can't also have snipers), and know when it will be time to go and contest it again. I imagine if you had some sort of heat map displaying player movement on a CoD map it would be largely chaotic, with a few hotspots where choke points and camping are ideal; whereas a similar map of a Halo map (in a game between great players) would be quite graceful and interpretable.

Weapons in Halo are chess pieces: they always serve the same role and function, they always start in the same place, everyone has access to them, and the board is level. Weapons and perks (or equivalent) in other games are like prime real estate in a game of Monopoly (albeit an admittedly less luck-based one). And eventually some players have a ton of hotels on Boardwalk. To put it mildly, the idea of spawning into a Halo game with a red-dot sniper rifle and super-speedy "light armour" I just purchased from a menu is noxious to me.

Thinking about it, Halo: Reach's "reward arc", as Luke calls it, is probably going to be less satisfying than Modern Warfare 2's is to a proponent of that game... but that's only because Bungie are (thankfully) unwilling to sacrifice the largely-level playing field of a Halo match to satisfy everyone's WoW and grinding instincts. It also looks like they are trying to implement a series of shorter reward arcs (seasons in the Arena feed into this, as do daily or weekly challenges, as does deeper and more incremental customization), rather than the entire span of post-launch, which risked the loss of players' interest, and eventually encouraged second accounts.
Click to expand...

I largely agree with the majority of what you are saying but I'd like to nitpick just a bit about the "reward arc".

I don't necessarily agree that MW2 reward system is more rewarding to players. With MW2'S approach, the rewards are alter the character by providing additional, if not stronger, tools to assist during a match. Whilst it may be rewarding for a player to feel the rush of a shiny new object to interact with or attain an item that he or she has only seen in the hands of other players, it has an overall degrading effect for less dedicated players.

Time investment is a key proponent for both MW2 and Reach rewards, with time, you can build on your base and accumulate more rewards as you play. However, this system will always rewards those with more play time over those with less. Obviously this seems like a fair system, an investment of time with measurable results, but having those results alter the gameplay punishes those players with less game time.

Now, from the perspective of a player with less game time, not having access to better guns and assist weapons limits the player's ability to compete with other players, even if they have the same approximate skill base. That isn't fair and it certainly isn't rewarding and this is how MW2 works.

Compare it with what we know now about Reach's rewards, you have a similar time/player investment system but the rewards are aesthetic with no tangible gameplay changes attached. Players with less time will have a disadvantage during a match competing with equally skilled players. The reward system will still dangle the carrot in front them, they will players with items they don't yet have but they'd be more likely to keep playing knowing that whilst it will take time acquiring the wanted items, they won't have to face up against unfair advantages in the meantime.

So I think, at least from this perspective, Reach's system is much more satisfying, in both short and long terms for both types of players. The dedicated players are rewarded as they should and and there's no gameplay bias against players with less time to play.
 
I

Iknos

Junior Member
That MTV article misses the whole point of the sort of game design Halo is going for.

Giving experienced players any weapon they want when they spawn will create an imbalance.

This credits system...does it work on offline splitscreen or LAN play?

I figure that you do have to be at least connected to Live to make use of it.
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
This new stuff is kind of good I guess, but it doesn't mean much if they don't go all out with it. A bunch of similiar looking shoulder pads isn't going to cut it. I want a helmet that looks like a fish's head or the armor of a snail. It needs to be that nuts otherwise... Who cares? I want to be able to change the visor color too.
 
T

Trasher

Member
Church RvB said:
Gauntlets mother fucker, don't you forget!
Click to expand...
I'd prefer some mittens.

Kuroyume said:
This new stuff is kind of good I guess, but it doesn't mean much if they don't go all out with it. A bunch of similiar looking shoulder pads isn't going to cut it. I want a helmet that looks like a fish's head or the armor of a snail. It needs to be that nuts otherwise... Who cares? I want to be able to change the visor color too.
Click to expand...
Wat

Please no. I would prefer to not look like some sort of weird creation scrapped by god.
 
P

Princess Carl

Member
Kuroyume said:
This new stuff is kind of good I guess, but it doesn't mean much if they don't go all out with it. A bunch of similiar looking shoulder pads isn't going to cut it. I want a helmet that looks like a fish's head or the armor of a snail. It needs to be that nuts otherwise... Who cares? I want to be able to change the visor color too.
Click to expand...


My thoughts exactly
 
S

SpudBud

Member
Domino Theory said:
I'm SO glad to know there are different helmet permutations. This whole time I thought everyone could ONLY use the Noble 6 helmet while customizing it. I was wrong:

http://g4tv.com/images/3278/Screensh...ization/56480/


Fuck YES.
Click to expand...
Ok really, that is fucking awesome.

BladedExpert said:
Not unless I get a flaming assguard as well!
Click to expand...

Hmm, I also demand armor that sparkles in sunlight and rainbow auras. Get to it bungle.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Foxy Fox 39 said:
I actually have no solutions, and I know for most this is fundamentally Halo, but I wish that an even ground could be met; between camping for weapon spawns (or traveling nearby, waiting the allotted time, and telling your teammates that rockets are spawned) and not having to completely focus gameplay on the aspect of weapon spawning.

ps. Don't kill me Halo Gaf :(
Click to expand...

What might be mistaken as camping weapons spawns, particularly in team games, may in fact be map control.

Map control is very important in Halo and it's not just about weapon spawn or even player spawns. If you browse through the Halo 3 heatmaps, you get a sense of the flow of the battles that occur on the maps. Players get locked into certain behaviours defined by spawning location, weapon placements, geographical features and even game types.

Map movement, from leaving your spawning location to getting to the heart of a gunfight, is very important and Halo is cut above most FPS in terms of how you can move. You can walk, take a mancannon, vehicle or teleporter to help get you to you destination.

If a team takes control of a map, they clamp down on the enemy team map movement severely, reducing the amount of options available to them in terms of map movement. This serves to funnel the enemy team into the firing range of you and your team mates and gives your team the advantage of facing the enemy on your team's terms, in addition to giving your team prime access to weapon spawn locations.

Most maps have a healthy balancing facility when this happens. Some key weapons spawn near the player spawn locations and spawns themselves take enemy positions into account and start spawning the enemy team in different locations. This makes it very hard and challenging for a team to maintain map control for very long. A team must communicate effectively, work together and have a pinch of luck to maintain dominance (or have a noticeably wide skill gap with the other team) but the end result is usually the same, the dominating team will lose dominance due to how the systems all work out.

Sometimes it can boil down to memorise weapon respawn times to win a match and sometimes it's a lot more complicated. It's what makes Halo, Halo, in my opinion. Reach seems to preserve the traditional Halo gameplay, despite all of the lovely additions it's bringing. Map control looks like it will continue to play a big part in the gameplay dynamics, a small piece in the larger picture.
 
S

Spasm

Member
That'd be awesome if you could also pimp your rides. Warty with 20" spinnaz and ground neons aint nuttin' to fuck wit'.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Those few new screenshots, combined with Luke's remark about the full game and kegstands, leads me to believe Bungie are going to make it rain armour variants.
 
Schmitty

Schmitty

Member
giga said:
The rusted, grimy look is so much better than previous iterations. Looks that much more believable.
Click to expand...
More of a throwback to how Spartans looked in Halo 2, rather than the clean look of Halo 3
 
D

DeadFalling

Member
Nutter said:
I am guessing this shows all the different armor parts/areas you can change.

Halo-Reach.jpg
Click to expand...

No shoes? :,(

Still is a lot, just was hoping for shoes....


edit: OR is that just all the customization available in the Beta?
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Nutter said:
I am guessing this shows all the different armor parts/areas you can change.

Halo-Reach.jpg
Click to expand...

The fourth guy from the right, is that a bird on his head? :lol

Really digging the Dress-A-Spartan.

As Halo 3 developed from release, folks started to wear armour and change their digs based on their visual preferences and it looks like Reach will instil that mindset into folks from the get-go. Great stuff.

Captain Blood said:
I will now be needing boba fett armor perms to go with the fett playlist, kthx.
Click to expand...

Co-signed.

DeadFalling said:
No shoes? :,(

Still is a lot, just was hoping for shoes....


edit: OR is that just all the customization available in the Beta?
Click to expand...

Just the Beta. :D
 
P

Pennybags

Member
Trasher said:
Makes sense. Helmets are a much bigger piece.
Click to expand...
The base helmet itself is only 2,000 cR. The attachment is 20,000 cR!

I think the Military Police helmet looks the best out the ones we have seen.
 
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