• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

"Halo2 was meant to be played on at least Heroic."

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
It has nothing to do with normal being easier than the Bungie guys would play and everything to do with the phrase "our A.I. guy and designers will take that as an insult".

If you're gonna take my playstyle as an insult, fuck you.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Mr. Lemming said:
For someone who has bought Halo 3 times you certainly are directing a lot of rage towards Bungie.

I've actually owned it four times, one was free, one had to be returned, and I sold the other 3 copies.

Still, I don't need their attitude!
 
enjoy bell woods said:
Maybe if each difficulty setting were complemented by some sort of description stating what sort of gamer should play it, things would be smoooooother.
You know, like how Doom and Wolfenstein use those stupid caricatures of their heroes to give you an example of how hard the difficulty level is going to be.
 

epmode

Member
RevenantKioku said:
It has nothing to do with normal being easier than the Bungie guys would play and everything to do with the phrase "our A.I. guy and designers will take that as an insult".

If you're gonna take my playstyle as an insult, fuck you.
i can't belive you're bitching about this. it's on par with sparks whining.
 

Deku Tree

Member
I'll probably play through the single player first quickly on Normal, then on Heroic and then on Legendary just like I did with Halo. I don't think I lost out on anything doing it that way.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
epmode said:
i can't belive you're bitching about this. it's on par with sparks whining.

Well perhaps I can't believe people don't have issues with developers saying bullshit of this level.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with "Heroic is how its meant to be played."
 

EmSeta

Member
Well, I agree with this guy using Halo 1 as a reference. I first played it on normal, then later on legendary. I'm not kidding, it's like two completely different games. The gameplay gets so much deeper with the added AI compared to other games.
 
I'm playing through it again on Heroic and I'm finding that level to be pretty dadgum easy.

Maybe its because I'm better at games in general than I was a couple of years ago or I found out how important the needler is in the game. I'm not sure. But, I just flying through the levels.

Legendary was tough, but there was really only one "holy shit, how can I get past this" part - when you first board the covenant ship and all the swordsmen come after you. Other than that part, it wasn't really that hard.

I'm for sure playing through Halo 2 on Legendary the first time through.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
enjoy bell woods said:
You know, like how Doom and Wolfenstein use those stupid caricatures of their heroes to give you an example of how hard the difficulty level is going to be.


You mean something like this:

Easy - Your foes cower and fall before your unstoppable onslaught, but final vicotry will leave you wanting more.

Normal - Hordes of aliens vie to destroy you, but nerves of steel and a quick trigger finger give you a solid chance to prevail.

Heroic - Your enemies are as numerous as they are ferocious. Their attacks are devastating. Survival is not guaranteed.

Legendary - You face opponents who have never known defeat, who laugh in alien tongues at your efforts to survive. This is suicide.

These are the descriptions of the difficulty levels in Halo.

And everyone seems to be forgetting something: When you start Halo, you are presented with the option to pick one of these difficulties at the start of the game, not burried in some option screen. The game tells you up front what the options are, gives you a sense of how hard it will be, and has you decide on your own which one to pick. Normal is defalt only in the sense the cursor is over it when you get to the screen. Bungie left the decision of how to play up to the player from the word go.

In otherwords, most of the suggestions I've read on this topic have already been implimented in Halo.

And besides, Anim8erJB was talking with a bunch of hard-core Halo fans in a Halo message board. I think his comments are being taken out of that context.
 

firex

Member
RevenantKioku said:
Well perhaps I can't believe people don't have issues with developers saying bullshit of this level.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with "Heroic is how its meant to be played."
If it was some japanese game instead of Halo you'd be praising the developers.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
firex said:
If it was some japanese game instead of Halo you'd be praising the developers.

Yeah, I'm a sucker for being insulted by the Japanese.

Halo 2 is a game and is meant to be played and enjoyed. And that's it.
 

firex

Member
Pretty much, yeah. I mean being a delusional Japanophile probably makes you somewhat of a caricature in their eyes.
 

DJ Sl4m

Member
GhaleonEB said:
No, I actually agree with him. I'd say the best way to play Halo is Legendary. The rest is training for it.

I couldn't agree more, all the Bungie rep is saying is to get the most out of the game, you should play it on the level of difficulty it was programmed around.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
firex said:
Pretty much, yeah. I mean being a delusional Japanophile probably makes you somewhat of a caricature in their eyes.

What is this shit?
Look, I can recognize a good game (Halo) and and a game I enjoy (Xenosaga). Just because Halo's good, doesn't mean I have to enjoy it. And the same in reversal, as Xenosaga is flawed.
If you honestly think my major offense to that statement has anything to do with the game, or the developer of the game, you're much more delusional than I.

Not all of us are good gamers. People scoff at Donkey Konga's difficulty, and I find it quite challenging. I'm not that skilled of a gamer at FPS games and music games. I'll admit that, and I'm fine with it. But if you're going to tell me shit like that Bungie guy, I'm gonna get irked at it. You're all agreeing with the "Play it how it should be played." and if that was all that was said, that'd be fine. Its not.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
RevenantKioku said:
What is this shit?
Look, I can recognize a good game (Halo) and and a game I enjoy (Xenosaga). Just because Halo's good, doesn't mean I have to enjoy it. And the same in reversal, as Xenosaga is flawed.
If you honestly think my major offense to that statement has anything to do with the game, or the developer of the game, you're much more delusional than I.

Not all of us are good gamers. People scoff at Donkey Konga's difficulty, and I find it quite challenging. I'm not that skilled of a gamer at FPS games and music games. I'll admit that, and I'm fine with it. But if you're going to tell me shit like that Bungie guy, I'm gonna get irked at it. You're all agreeing with the "Play it how it should be played." and if that was all that was said, that'd be fine. Its not.

You're taking his comments out of context. He was speaking to hard-core Halo fans. You are not one of them. Thus, his comments are not aimed at you. Calm down.

I am a hard-core Halo fan, and I agree with him. Do I think his comments apply to the general population (who most likely don't have the skills/patience/time to invest in Legendary)? No.

Chill out.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
GhaleonEB said:
You're taking his comments out of context. He was speaking to hard-core Halo fans. You are not one of them. Thus, his comments are not aimed at you. Calm down.

I am a hard-core Halo fan, and I agree with him. Do I think his comments apply to the general population (who most likely don't have the skills/patience/time to invest in Legendary)? No.

Chill out.

I don't believe context has to do anything with it. It doesn't need to be aimed at me for it to offend me, or anything.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
RevenantKioku said:
I don't believe context has to do anything with it. It doesn't need to be aimed at me for it to offend me, or anything.

That's just dumb. It's as if beekeepers where talking trash on some message board, and they boasted, "Only really great beekeepers never get stung." And you read that and think, "Hey, I got stung by a bee as a kid. This guy just called me a lousy beekeeper! Screw him, man!!!!111!!" I mean seriously, context isn't important? Who the quote is aimed at isn't important?

And for the record, here's the full exchange:

Originally Posted by Shaersh
I think you may have to give it a little more time than that. I'm guessing first play through will come down to 12 to 15 hours if you've got some major skill. Me? I'm going to savour every fricken' minute of the first playthough. I plan to go through it over about a week (taking short breaks to play a little online).

I cannot wait for this game. I really don't think I've ever anticipated anything entertainment related as much as this.

Love these updates

[Anim8erJB]
Yeah, and don't even think about starting it on Normal or Easy...our A.I. guy and designers will take that as an insult. Halo2 was meant to be played on at least Heroic.

Jeez - context is everthing. A Bungie guy tells a hard-core gamer, who just said he wants to savor the game and take his time the first time through, to play the game on a hard setting, and casuals get all riled up. How the hell can you claim that context isn't important?

I'm done with this topic. If you're going to stay in huff over this, your're just plain childish.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
jesus christ this board is retarded some times. of all things to get worked up about...
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
GhaleonEB said:
That's just dumb. If beekeepers where talking trash on some message board, and they boasted, "Only really great beekeepers never get stung," would you get offended if you got stung by a bee as a kid?
Of course not, I'm not in the business of handling bees. I am a player of games.

Jeez - context is everthing. A Bungie guy tells a hard-core gamer to play the game on a hard setting, and casuals get all riled up. And for the record, here's the full exchange:
No, he didn't just tell the hard-cores to play it on hard setting. He's saying its an insult to the developers to do it any other way. I think that's a bullshit thing to say. He said that amongst hard-core Halo fans, but the arrogance still shines through.

I'm done with this topic. If you're going to stay in huff over this, your're just plain childish.
I'm not all riled up and going to order boycotts on Bungie, I just think its a ridiculous thing to say. Find me childish or a japanophile, whatever, I stand by my views. This is a pretty shitty thing to say, no matter who you say it to.
 

Tellaerin

Member
He's effectively saying, 'We worked hard to create a game that's really going to test your skills. Playing it at anything less than Heroic means that you're deliberately rejecting the effort we're making to entertain you, and we'd be a little insulted if you did that after all the time we spent on this game.' Don't know why that offends you, but it really shouldn't.
 

IJoel

Member
Meh... I'll first play the game on Normal, then move onto Heroic and eventually Legendary.

Why? Because I don't want to get stuck on some god forsaken area and "thank" the AI designers with many blessings because the covenant are kicking my ass. I prefer to enjoy the game and story and then after I'm familiar with it, I'll take on a challenge.

The whole 'you gotta play on hard/legendary or you are missing out blah blah blah' is bullshit from elitist people with the intent of making themselves feel superior. Sure, when it comes from the developers they are probably intending for the gamers to experience really kickass AI routines, and I sure don't blame them for that, but to imply that you are missing out on the Halo experience because of the difficulty is simply missing the point. It's all about having fun with a game. If the game can't provide me fun at a level I'm comfortable with, then it's shit. Simple as that.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Tellaerin said:
He's effectively saying, 'We worked hard to create a game that's really going to test your skills. Playing it at anything less than Heroic means that you're deliberately rejecting the effort we're making to entertain you, and we'd be a little insulted if you did that after all the time we spent on this game.' Don't know why that offends you, but it really shouldn't.

Deliberate rejecting nothing. I guarantee you people can't handle Halo on normal. I can barely do it myself. There's my reason. And I'm sure people can, or the game should be able to let them enjoy it at that level of play. Not saying Halo or Halo 2 doesn't, I'm just making my point.
 

Gantz

Banned
Am I the only one who didn't find Halo that difficult on Legendary? Is Halo 2 going to give me a challenge?
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Gantz said:
Am I the only one who didn't find Halo that difficult on Legendary? Is Halo 2 going to give me a challenge?

I dunno, it was pretty challenging...but it gets easier the further you play due to experience. My first time through was rough, but I replayed it again this summer on Legendary and found it to be WAYYYYY easier than I remembered it. It was still tough, but I was able to blow through it pretty quickly. There were still a few sticky spots, though (such as the first room on the ship during level 3).
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
The Faceless Master said:
i played thru on normal, then heroic, then legendary... and if they have the seperate icons for each difficulty again, i'll do the same again

Pretty much. Legendary by yourself was ridiculously hard. Didn't get past Truth and Reconciliation. Either way, I wouldn't say the AI was ramped up that much on Legendary but more that the accuracy of your foes and speed of fire was ramped up. That was the hardest part about Legendary.

The AI was improved somewhat cuz they wouldn't blindly run out into the open but the biggest difference was their accuracy and firepower.
 
RevenantKioku said:
I don't believe context has to do anything with it. It doesn't need to be aimed at me for it to offend me, or anything.
Hahaha, stop posting in this thread now. Go play Xenosaga.

HALO 2 THREAD BACK ON TRACK

Discuss the physics, AI, and sheer awesomeness of the game, boy-o's!

halo_24b.jpg
 

eso76

Member
Holy shit, this has to stop.
The guy was just saying jokingly that the programmers would be sorry if people didn't try halo 2 on at least heroic, because if it's like halo, there are several features in its IA that are simply 'turned off' on lower difficulty settings, and it would feel like they've wasted their time if people never got to see what they've done with the IA in Halo 2.
 

Sai

Member
Everything seems to have more weight than in the original game. Grenade tosses are shorter, vehicles are a lot more grounded and harder to flip over... And I recall somebody mentioning that there are realistic ragdoll physics for death animations in HALO 2.

Only exception is the huge SOB-jump in HALO 2. SPARTANs and Elites, in multiplayer at least, launch into the sky much higher and faster than in the first game
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Sai said:
Everything seems to have more weight than in the original game. Grenade tosses are shorter, vehicles are a lot more grounded and harder to flip over... And I recall somebody mentioning that there are realistic ragdoll physics for death animations in HALO 2.

Only exception is the huge SOB-jump in HALO 2. SPARTANs and Elites, in multiplayer at least, launch into the sky much higher and faster than in the first game

Bungie commented when asked at E3 that the higher jump is an ability gained from the MC's new armor. Presumably Elites can do the same to balance it out in multiplayer.
 
Azih said:
beautiful. Jump fest.

I don't like bunny hopping in my FPSes! Why Bungie! WHY?

Well considering in Halo you had very little air control, and it was seemingly impossible to jump backwards at any decent vector, I don't think it will be too much of a problem. Usually there was a sniper shot or a rocket waiting for you before you landed.
 

Sai

Member
Jumping in HALO = Death. Being able to jump higher in HALO 2, with longer hang time, only makes it worse. You bunny hop, you die.

[EDIT] - Somethin' I was thinkin 'about earlier:

How different do you think Elites will look in single player campaign? Obviously, the SPARTANs in multiplayer will look identical to the Master Chief, but with the Elites doing so much more crazy shit in single player campaign(scaling and jumpin' off walls and scenery in a leopard-like fashion), you think it'll be a big contrast to the way we'll see Elites in multiplayer?
 

Matlock

Banned
I dunno, if you have a powerful weapon, you could easily zoom out of someone's field of view, punk 'em, then come back down.
 

ced

Member
Sai said:
but with the Elites doing so much more crazy shit in single player campaign(scaling and jumpin' off walls and scenery in a leopard-like fashion)

Where did you read that?

It wouldnt surprise me, they have to be different than the brutes now.
 

Sai

Member
ced said:
Where did you read that?

It wouldnt surprise me, they have to be different than the brutes now.
EGM article released pre-E32k3. The Covenant are going to interact with the enviroment in a big way, won't be the same as the first game.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Sai said:
How different do you think Elites will look in single player campaign? Obviously, the SPARTANs in multiplayer will look identical to the Master Chief, but with the Elites doing so much more crazy shit in single player campaign(scaling and jumpin' off walls and scenery in a leopard-like fashion), you think it'll be a big contrast to the way we'll see Elites in multiplayer?

Well, in Halo Elites did some huge diving lunges to avoid grenades, so I'm sure there will be other similar moves. And in a past update, it was mentioned that Elites have 881 animations in Halo 2. I'm sure many of them are for unique SP motions.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
this is possibly the dumbest thread I have ever read on GAF (at least on the gaming forum). I can't believe people are actually upset over a developer saying this. I'd hate to see how you react to anything that comes out of Itagaki's mouth.
 
Nerevar said:
this is possibly the dumbest thread I have ever read on GAF (at least on the gaming forum). I can't believe people are actually upset over a developer saying this. I'd hate to see how you react to anything that comes out of Itagaki's mouth.
Read the entire thread. That side of the conversation has been ended. Anyone who brings it up again will get banned.

NOW LETS GET BACK TO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT ONE OF THE BEST GAMES EVER

x_screen003.jpg


oops wait no

halo_21b.jpg


THERE WE GO, HALO MOTHER BITCHES
 
Top Bottom