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HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.
- Thread starter User 73706
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noice
I can't begin to imagine the decision making process that put LAN capability at the bottom of a priority list for the Xbox One. If it's truly an oS limitation then it's a deal breaker if not patched before the MCC launches. It isn't possible to run everything through the "cloud" at all times - you need local connectivity as a possibility.
We need this confirmed either way.
We need this confirmed either way.
The Real Napsta
Member
CoD Ghosts has system link on Xbox One.
The only situation I see system link not being feasible would be some sort of thing where they're entirely replacing the existing netcode with their dedicated server variant, and this new server code is intense enough that there's no room left to render both the game and the server at the same time.
I don't think this would fly for me because
1) I'm still assuming CE's multiplayer is going to be Halo PC's netcode. (They can't use the original Xbox's LAN netcode unless you want massive input latency, and it'd only support 4 unique consoles per session). This already supported both dedicated servers and player-hosted servers
2) Halo 2 PC supports both dedicated servers and player hosted servers. Which they almost have to be basing classic mode on, because all the work for 60FPS was already done there, and what they've said matches up with how Halo 2 PC behaved (superbounces, etc). The original Xbox version supported player hosting, obviously.
I bring up player-hosted servers because that's how LAN works most of the time - you're using your console to both play the game and host it. So unless they've somehow, or for some reason have ripped out all the player-hosting code.. LAN should be viable.
If they somehow DID.. then you should still allow an Xbox One to be used as the dedicated server that all the other Ones connect to for a LAN.
I don't think this would fly for me because
1) I'm still assuming CE's multiplayer is going to be Halo PC's netcode. (They can't use the original Xbox's LAN netcode unless you want massive input latency, and it'd only support 4 unique consoles per session). This already supported both dedicated servers and player-hosted servers
2) Halo 2 PC supports both dedicated servers and player hosted servers. Which they almost have to be basing classic mode on, because all the work for 60FPS was already done there, and what they've said matches up with how Halo 2 PC behaved (superbounces, etc). The original Xbox version supported player hosting, obviously.
I bring up player-hosted servers because that's how LAN works most of the time - you're using your console to both play the game and host it. So unless they've somehow, or for some reason have ripped out all the player-hosting code.. LAN should be viable.
If they somehow DID.. then you should still allow an Xbox One to be used as the dedicated server that all the other Ones connect to for a LAN.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Man, after seeing Resident Evil Remake's "Remaster" I am really glad that 343 cares enough about classic Halo games to not butcher them like that and even given them a new graphical layer in the case of CE and 2.
User 73706
Banned
Hey Kibbles, the aliasing was bugging me in your avatar so if you want to use it, I screencapped Chief from the H2A trailer on as close of a frame to yours as I could and did some minor sharpening / color correction:
ElzarTheBam
Member
*giggles*
User 73706
Banned
How would you guys suggest they balance the Mantis? I'm not looking for "cut it" or any variation thereof. I have to wonder if actually making it physics-based would help, where you'd have to carefully plan your movement along with your team so that you didn't kill yourself by tripping off the hills in Valhalla or something like that. If they ever introduce the Locust into a first-person sandbox I feel like it'd already be pretty balanced - it's huge, bigger than a Wraith, but fairly slow with less health and the benefit of an (albeit slowly-recharging) energy shield. It's only had one offensive option so far in the form of an anti-building laser similar to a low-grade Scarab. This could pretty easily be reworked into an anti-vehicle beam that takes its toll on Warthogs and the like much faster than the infantry within, cementing its position as an exclusively BTB weapon. They could always make it equal parts Mantis and Fallen Devil Walker where its four legs translate into it being a walking splatter machine in a first-person environment at the cost of being able to damage its legs to briefly expose the driver or something similar.
And, of course, the question still stands: what would happen if a Chopper boosted into a Mantis?
And, of course, the question still stands: what would happen if a Chopper boosted into a Mantis?
User 73706
Banned
...that's a really good idea, damn. It basically becomes a walking turret at that point, which would be way more in line with the sandbox.
I honestly think that reducing its sight lines like that, removing the stomp in favor of just being able to walk over enemies and nerfing the missiles so that they're manmade Enforcer mortars would go a long way in making it more bearable fighting for and against it. It still remains a swiss army vehicle (turret combats air, mortars can overturn vehicles, walking can squish infanty), but in such a way that it's more of a mobile multi-purpose harrassment vehicle that can scare off ground forces just as long as it's backed by a few competent footsoldiers rather than being the Mary Sue of the vehicle sandbox. Seriously, even with the chaingun nerf, it's a shielded physics-proof tank on legs. I wouldn't mind the original Mantis in campaign as a feel-good weapon, but it's a pain to deal with in multiplayer.
Strip it of shields and do as Fyre says and have it as a support vehicle of sorts sort of midway between a Scorpion and a Warthog. Although I'd rather it gone all together myself.
The Mantis is just silly and unnecessary and ruins vehicular gameplay by making every other vehicle redundant.
Making it more physics based isn't going to change anything as people don't move around with it anyway. It's so powerful that the only real threat to it is another Mantis - and generally if there are two then neither of them are going to risk going against the other unless forced to. Especially in objective games.
And then what you get is two blatantly overpowered vehicles camping their 'side' of the map and decimating anyone stupid enough to try and take it on. I mean, how often do you see anyone successfully use the Warthog in Halo 4 when there's a Mantis on the map? I don't think I've seen it happen once.
It needs to go
Making it more physics based isn't going to change anything as people don't move around with it anyway. It's so powerful that the only real threat to it is another Mantis - and generally if there are two then neither of them are going to risk going against the other unless forced to. Especially in objective games.
And then what you get is two blatantly overpowered vehicles camping their 'side' of the map and decimating anyone stupid enough to try and take it on. I mean, how often do you see anyone successfully use the Warthog in Halo 4 when there's a Mantis on the map? I don't think I've seen it happen once.
It needs to go
Poodlestrike
Banned
Ditch the Rockets, replace them with a much longer-charging, slightly higher-damage splaser, or possibly an anti-vehicle specced Sentinel Gun offsohot. Nothing with splash damage, is the point. Reduce the strength of the shields, and (this is important) make it possible to knock them down by ramming them.
It definitely does it's still surprising that it was even included in the first place to me. It's overpowered in not only itself as a vehicle but in what it takes to destroy it. The only thing that kills it in a single shot is an incineration cannon, they don't even spawn on the maps a mantis is on naturally other than ordinance as far as I remember.
Gnome Scat
Member
I think it's a fun vehicle to use in the Singleplayer, but it is very OP in multiplayer. I think it needs a weak point similar to how the Ghost has the fuel tank and/or a spin up time on the chaingun if it were to be balanced instead of removed.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Boo. Love me some tank battles. Though, granted, the Wraith can't really compete with the Scorpion one on one. Covenant kind of need an MBT from a fluff perspective.
Steelyuhas
Member
Both online required MP games. I don't know if any BF games have had LAN.
Like others said, Ghosts has LAN on XB1 though.
I'm sure that the issue (if there really is an issue and it's not just that they don't want to confirm features that they aren't 100% they'll get finished), would be that the MP games are being reworked in terms of networking to all run together side by side on Azure. Maybe because of how the game is set up, they might have to do some things differently to get the games working offline.
I'd argue that the Gauss hog doesn't belong in multiplayer too.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Make the Mantis control like a Titan, but with limited ammo. Upon depletion, players use the Mantis as more of a mobile BEATDOWN machine (maybe even like a "supercharge" mode where a 15 second countdown begins until self-destruct), giving more of an artificial "time limit" (in the sense that now it'll be open to more attacks if you want to make use of it) on the field since the problem it had before was that people just camped around with it for entire matches.
It requires team work unlike the tank. The Wraith doesn't require team work but due to its heavily arcing weapon, it requires enough skill lack of team work doesn't matter (provided the rate of fire isn't too fast). And in its current iteration in Halo 4, the Gauss Hog is actually pretty balanced, more so than any other iteration i can remember (that is, excluding Halo 2 Gauss Hog).
The Ghost is... or should be at least, weak enough it being one-man vehicle isn't a big deal. The same with Banshee, though one can argue that Falcon in Reach was inherently better balanced due to teamwork requirement and thus a better fit for multiplayer.
Poodlestrike
Banned
So... by that logic, all you'd need to balance the tank is make the turret gunner a more necessary position. Drop the rate of fire and splash radius of the main cannon, so it's less effective vs. infantry, and ditch the coaxial machine gun.
Orochinagis
Member
Like Halo 3 tank
I think they want people to indulge in their devout care of Xbox rather than Halo :/
As for the mantis. I think the main problem isn't the fact that it's OP, but that it's so boring to use. They need to find a way to make it feel stompy and powerful whilst also making it slightly less effective. I think if they made it a bit slower and heavier and make it slower to turn it would feel more like a mech. The guns alps feel rubbish. I think giving it a rail gun instead of machine guns and slow to charge splaser instead of rockets would make or feel more powerful while not actually make it more effective.
It doesn't require that much team work at all even a stationary gauss hog is still pretty powerful in the scheme of things on certain maps. Although post balancing it 4 it is weaker than it once was it is still pretty formidable for what it is.
Split the tank operation between driver and gunner, not what Halo 3 did (move the MG to gunner position).
Though now i have to ask, what's the point since the Gauss Hog already provides this concept while being faster and generally speaking more interesting than a slow lumbering hulk tanks in Halos are?
Does it have a good role in multiplayer? If no, don't use it MP. If yes, what is it? I can't think of a role for the Scorpion that the Wraith or other vehicles can't fulfill already.
Unless it is an alternative, the way the LightRifle is an alternative to the DRM, the Spiker was an alternative to the SMG and AR, and so on. But then we get bloated sandbox without good reason, which is not a problem for me, as long as the game sticks to this idea and there are no modes that mix everything in one bag.
This is ignoring the tank being really difficult to balance while keeping it fun (slow, can't doge, not fun. Weak (either firepower or armor), not tank-like, so not fun really). One can argue Halo CE tank is balanced due to its inherent inaccuracy but i say that isn't fun for the same reason bloom and spread are not fun.
If people can't kill a stationary Warthog, they deserve to die from it. The issue with stationary tank is that it is far easier to use, far more powerful due to splash damage, far harder to destroy... and it can actually move unlike a Gauss Hog without driver.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I guess that part of the problem with balancing the tank is that it's kind of too big for Halo. BTB is only 8v8; tanks aren't generally involved in a skirmish that small. A lot of the design decisions don't make sense at that level, at least from a gameplay perspective.
Anyway, assuming it's not just cut, splitting it between the drive and the gunner makes it a less-fun Gausshog, but splitting it between the driver/gunner and the machine gunner makes it essentially the next tier up, since it can more effectively deal with vehicles and infantry simultaneously. The question is, because of the above issue, is it worth having in matches that small? I dunno. Hearing about the 12 v 12 matches they had planned for Halo 2 multi makes me think it'd be a more comfortable fit there.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I think there's room to expand a little. A larger, more vehicle-focused gametype would be pretty fun. You'd also have the opportunity to place more focus on air superiority.
Ugh, no, that's not for me.
I've never been a fan of pure infantry Halo. And i really don't like Heavies or other heavily vehicle-focused modes in Halo either. The ideal situation is a balanced mix.
Having more air-focus might be interesting and is doable with 8v8 easily enough, just have balanced Banshees and Falcon-equivalents, some AA weapons and well designed map.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, this would still be a mix of infantry, ground, and air vehicles, but bigger maps makes air control more important, and larger numbers of people (and thus, more guns) makes tougher vehicles make more sense. I love me my tanks, but the more I think about it, the less sense they make at BTB sizes.
For a standard warthog or a rocket hog that is a perfectly acceptable statement. A Gauss hog isn't like either of those two in terms of power is it? It's stronger and has a far longer range than either of them.
Well i guess it could be kept as a balanced mix but i question whether it would actually add anything to Halo beyond perhaps making tanks really working vehicles in multiplayer.
With more players, we start getting issues with team-shooting becoming perhaps overtly powerful, there may be more power weapons and other things.
Not sure having to solve those potential issues is worth it.
Post-patch in Halo 4 it sure is balanced like the others (well, as much as Halo 4 vehicles are balanced due to bad maps, bad vehicle health system and whatever else). To the point i actually prefer the others (without Gunner perk. With Gunner it actually seems to be considerably better. But this just demonstrates the issues perks cause in Halo). And if it isn't, reducing the turret's turn rate and slowing rate of fire solves these issues. It is a vehicle sniper, so it has a good niche role.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Team shooting is only an issue if you don't provide enough incentive for people to split up, and that's just a question of building the maps/game types right, isn't it? Something like Destiny's control with some features of Dominion sprinkled in (rewarding captures with auto-turrets and vehicles)*, so teams that stay clumped up are put at a greater disadvantage.
*
Just a thought, don't crucify me!
Well a good team moves as a group due to advantages it offers. So yeah, you have to make splitting up advantageous. So... good map design, good weapon placement are vital.
No comment on your suggestion though, i play Team Slayer and CTF and Assault, everything else can go to hell for all i care. EDIT well done Territories works too. You know, Conquest-like. Not the shit we got in Halo 3. 3-Plots is the good one i think?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, Dominion was basically 3-plot Territories with the added stuff I mentioned as a reward for "reinforcing" the captured point (basically, sitting on it). It was a cool idea in theory, but in practice the maps didn't really support it, and it ended up feeling super disjointed. Adding Control's points for kills structure would help incentive more coordinated play, while the nature of the capture points would make staying in one giant group a bad idea. I dunno, I think it could work. Still, any larger player count list would have to be compatible with the game types you mentioned, so map design would be tricky.
MrGreencastle
Member
Cut the Mantis, bring back the Locust.
User 73706
Banned
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yes. This. I'd love to see more Halo Wars vehicles make it in.
Territories doesn't need additions like Domi-thing had. Of course 3-Plots happens to be better for smaller scale games, though perhaps it could be upped to 5-Plots for BTB?
But is 8v8 enough for 5-Plots? 4-Plots doesn't work, unequal amount of territories is required to force people to attack and defend.
The Locust, perhaps but it needs careful balancing. It could replace the Gauss-Hog for the vehicle sniper role perhaps? The Vampire, maybe, as a Falcon-esque sky-Hog. The other UNSC vehicles are no good fit for normal-scale Halo (that siege-tank thing, i forget its name), or they're not interesting enough, visually or in function (the rocket artillery vehicle is boring looking and functions like one-man Rocket Hog).
But is 8v8 enough for 5-Plots? 4-Plots doesn't work, unequal amount of territories is required to force people to attack and defend.
The Locust, perhaps but it needs careful balancing. It could replace the Gauss-Hog for the vehicle sniper role perhaps? The Vampire, maybe, as a Falcon-esque sky-Hog. The other UNSC vehicles are no good fit for normal-scale Halo (that siege-tank thing, i forget its name), or they're not interesting enough, visually or in function (the rocket artillery vehicle is boring looking and functions like one-man Rocket Hog).
Havoc2049
Member
Maybe take out the missiles in the Mantis and add a Spartan Laser????
If they limit the ammo in the Mantis, then the ammo should be limited in all vehicles. It might take away some fun, but it would make the combat more realistic and fair, if that is what people want. Fun vs. Realism is always a tricky balance.
If they limit the ammo in the Mantis, then the ammo should be limited in all vehicles. It might take away some fun, but it would make the combat more realistic and fair, if that is what people want. Fun vs. Realism is always a tricky balance.
I don't think limited ammo is a good fit for Halo. This would require a way to replenish vehicle ammo. And this leads to map design complications.
It might work, and it would add an interesting element, and it would certainly balance more powerful vehicles, but i'm not sure it is a necessary addition.
User 73706
Banned
They could always add weapon spawn time-length cooldowns to the heavy weapons onboard vehicles so that you've got the extra defense / mobility of said vehicle all the time, but can only aggressively take people out with Mantis missles / etc. as often as you could with rockets or the sniper.
It's funny that you're specifically calling TitanFall mechs out on not being cobbled-together boring pieces of junk.
Give the Mantis a weak spot on the back side, so that infantry can take it down with good aim and planning.
Poohblaster
Member
Hey guys I need some advice. I decided to get back into Halo 4 again after a long absence. I bought Halo 4 GOTY edition because I wanted all the new maps. The problem is the new maps hardly ever appear in matchmaking. I'm not sure if they even appear at all.
Please don't tell that the new map DLC was so unsuccessful in sales that it is virtually impossible to play the new maps. If this is the case the new maps should be free and mandatory to play Halo 4.
Please don't tell that the new map DLC was so unsuccessful in sales that it is virtually impossible to play the new maps. If this is the case the new maps should be free and mandatory to play Halo 4.
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