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[User 73706]

What with 343 trying to contextualize their swamphuts and handicap halo help welfare babbies find success, I can't help but feel like any implementation of ADS would be a huge kick in the balls to themselves and the community. The "scope in" mechanic Spartans and other UNSC cyborgs (ODSTs) use already functions as an aim down sight in-universe - data is transmitted from the near-universal "smart gun" feeds on the scopes of the majority of weapons into the player's HUD, or improvised via a basic zoom effect in later titles. Some weapons evidently have the firmware to support a smart uplink despite not having a scope, for example some variants of magnum pistol. The in-game gameplay mechanic of looking through scopes isn't just a visualization of aiming down them, it's visual data relayed to the optical links in your helmet.

Based on that information, it seems absolutely ridiculous that Spartans would ever need to perform a traditional ADS mechanic from both a story and gameplay perspective. If it does happen, with all of the lore-gameplay interbreeding 343's shooting for, I have a feeling it'll end up being a big "343 just shot themselves in the foot" moment if it happens.

The one exception I could think of would be a weapon too ancient to be compatible beyond physical point-and-shoot functionality like a Precursor weapon, or if they go the route of giving you skunkworks Innie stuff that isn't compatible with UNSC regulation gear, but again, in 2557 smartgun functionality seems like it'd be relatively inexpensive.

 

[-Ryn]

People are giving valid reasons as to why/how it negatively effects game play. Can you tell me what you believe are the positives for it staying besides the fact you think it's "fun"?

I think that sprint can add to Halo's larger battles (and campaign but that's not really relevant here).

It's an actual ability for you to use when the situation fits just like your weapon or melee. I don't see how upping the base movement speed would solve the problem since the maps would still need to scale with it and would take away from vehicles. It can make the difference between hijacking a vehicle or getting to an objective on time. If the map is designed around it there can be jumps for it. Wahrer joked about how you can run from battles but I don't see that as all bad (yes I know it's an unpopular opinion around here). You failed to kill them not because they had something you didn't but because they made use of an ability and an opportunity. It wasn't randomness. Yeah it sucks because you "should've" gotten them but that happens even without sprint.

Then there's just the point that it feels good

Spoiler

ymmv

. It's fun to be able to do an epic run to the flag or manage to jump away with a quick boost. I've seen good points made on both sides of the argument and I think sprint can work in Halo.

 

[Calm Killer]

Good list. Here's what I came up with off the top of my head:

1. Halo has strayed too far from the balanced, even playing field design of Halo 1 and 2. Armor abilities, perks, ordnance drops, and perks locked behind DLC paywalls are all examples of this.
2. Mediocre maps in Reach and Halo 4.
3. Replace Forge with a more fleshed out map editor.
4. Mishandling of objective gametypes (Assault, CTF).
5. Poor playlist management (Custom Games Browser please!)
6. The poor approach to DLC (Again, CGB please!)
7. Flinch
8. Sprint
9. Hit markers
10. Grenade Indicators
11. Customizable Controls
12. Y axis sensitivity

Those are all over the map, and the interconnected issues are best analyzed without trying to separate them, but it's 2:23 AM here and I'm sleepy.

This a good list. I don't really agree with hit markers.

My list would be:

1. Armor Abilities
2. Ordnance Drops (instead of controllable spawn locations)
3. Map Design (Small Arena Symmetrical/A Symmetrical should be the focus with BTB mixed in as well)
4. Sprint (Directly affects the map design, jumping and throws the balance of the game off)
5. Perks in general
6. Flinch
7. Weapon Markers/Grenade Markers. They are distracting.
8. Customizable Controller (I should be able to map the controls)

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

People are giving valid reasons as to why/how it negatively effects game play. Can you tell me what you believe are the positives for it staying besides the fact you think it's "fun"?

Apparently "fun" Halo isn't allowed here FFS! I'm all for hyper competitive arena, Christ I lived objective ranked in H3 but modes that are fun are certainly fair game too.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Halo 3 is where core Halo stopped. Halo Reach and Halo 4 are not what I would call true to the original Halo games. They both tried to be COD-clones and as a result, the Halo population took a huge hit and it's no one's fault but the publishers and devs.

It's quite simple, don't mess with the core of Halo. HCE, Halo 2 and Halo 3, just fine (except for H3 BR spread).

 

[Nebula]

Apparently "fun" Halo isn't allowed here FFS! I'm all for hyper competitive arena, Christ I lived objective ranked in H3 but modes that are fun are certainly fair game too.

Sprint doesn't make it more fun though.

 

[Calm Killer]

Apparently "fun" Halo isn't allowed here FFS! I'm all for hyper competitive arena, Christ I lived objective ranked in H3 but modes that are fun are certainly fair game too.

I think he is looking for the reason it makes it fun. Not just a broad reasoning of....fun. The point was why is it fun to you.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Didn't we ban pro-sprint people back to the CoD/Titanfall/Battlefield OTs? The people they try to appeal to with the addition of Sprint until they leave your game for the ACTUAL CoD/Battlefield, leaving Halo 4 with uh...a few masochistic Halo fans and bored dudes?

TheOddOne, come get your boy

 

[User 73706]

Sprint doesn't make it more fun though.

Ozzy's also perpetuating the whole competitive-fun split thing. There's overlap, it's not binary. Hell, I do worse at the more-accessible Halo 4 despite being one of the worst players here. Coordinating map movement with a team and moving up the hills of Valhalla feels a little more rewarding than, say, spawning with camo on Ragnarok and establishing a route (with infographics!) to take to remain undetected. Keep that shit in Campaign.

Getting defensive and saying "jeez, I like competitive gameplay too guys! I just like to have fun sometimes!" is completely missing the point of the game. Mindless fun you could make an argument for, for sure, but that being said I've had my fair share of mindless fun in Ranked just getting slaughtered while GAF yells at me for dying too much and I'm just sitting here listening to Pendulum and browsing GAF. I think the real binary is supposed to be establishing that Ranked means you're willing to put your skills (good or bad) on display in contrast to Social. I have no shame, so I frequent Ranked anyways.

 

[TheOddOne]

Didn't we ban pro-sprint people back to the CoD/Titanfall/Battlefield OTs? The people they try to appeal to with the addition of Sprint until they leave your game for the ACTUAL CoD/Battlefield, leaving Halo 4 with uh...a few masochistic Halo fans and bored dudes?

TheOddOne, come get your boy

 

[Nebula]

Didn't we ban pro-sprint people back to the CoD/Titanfall/Battlefield OTs? The people they try to appeal to with the addition of Sprint until they leave your game for the ACTUAL CoD/Battlefield, leaving Halo 4 with uh...a few masochistic Halo fans and bored dudes?

TheOddOne, come get your boy

The truth hurts man.

 

[-Ryn]

Getting defensive and saying "jeez, I like competitive gameplay too guys! I just like to have fun sometimes!" is completely missing the point of the game. Mindless fun you could make an argument for, for sure, but that being said I've had my fair share of mindless fun in Ranked just getting slaughtered while GAF yells at me for dying too much and I'm just sitting here listening to Pendulum and browsing GAF.

I think the real binary is supposed to be establishing that Ranked means you're willing to put your skills (good or bad) on display in contrast to Social. I have no shame, so I frequent Ranked anyways.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Didn't we ban pro-sprint people back to the CoD/Titanfall/Battlefield OTs? The people they try to appeal to with the addition of Sprint until they leave your game for the ACTUAL CoD/Battlefield, leaving Halo 4 with uh...a few masochistic Halo fans and bored dudes?

TheOddOne, come get your boy

I enjoy sprint.

Or, they need to make the default movement animation not look like you are literally walking through the maps. Maybe that would do it. When there's a battle on the other side of the map it feels like you are enjoying a walk in the park trying to get there.

 

[User 73706]

I enjoy sprint.

Or, they need to make the default movement animation not look like you are literally walking through the maps. Maybe that would do it.

Eh, I don't really mind. I've always gotten the impression that the Spartans have an armed forces sort of swagger to their walks where they stay collected and disciplined going around rather than having a "bounciness" to their movements. Plus, given they're not only tall but strong as hell, they're covering more ground speedwalking than most humans could sprinting. If anything the bouncing that comes with Sprint just makes them seem amateurish, which is why I didn't really mind it with IIIs and IVs - at least in Campaign.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Ozzy's also perpetuating the whole competitive-fun split thing. There's overlap, it's not binary. Hell, I do worse at the more-accessible Halo 4 despite being one of the worst players here. Coordinating map movement with a team and moving up the hills of Valhalla feels a little more rewarding than, say, spawning with camo on Ragnarok and establishing a route (with infographics!) to take to remain undetected. Keep that shit in Campaign.

Getting defensive and saying "jeez, I like competitive gameplay too guys! I just like to have fun sometimes!" is completely missing the point of the game. Mindless fun you could make an argument for, for sure, but that being said I've had my fair share of mindless fun in Ranked just getting slaughtered while GAF yells at me for dying too much and I'm just sitting here listening to Pendulum and browsing GAF. I think the real binary is supposed to be establishing that Ranked means you're willing to put your skills (good or bad) on display in contrast to Social. I have no shame, so I frequent Ranked anyways.

But I love ranked and I think competitive is fun. That said, Halo is more than just hyper barebones settings all the time.

So the group argument is sprint makes maps big but I say relegate it to BTB and post this about why:

Again I'm super happy with smaller arena maps just NOT having sprint but in coop or BTB or new modes I see why sprint may be preferable.

When I think forward about removing plasma pistols and stickies from loadouts in modes like BTB it would be nice to have sprint for traversal, vehicle dodge, vehicle boarding attack, evade a group of enemies if you're on your own etc. Unless they bring back some weapons and equipment from Halo 3 e.g. power drain or missile pod.

I feel it's relevant because it's silly a Spartan with super human abilities can only walk in game? I don't care what other games do I've always felt it silly that Spartans can't run.

Honestly it's such a narrow vision about having a discussion, even when I agree about arena and NO sprint but want to talk about other playlists.

 

[-Ryn]

I enjoy sprint.

Or, they need to make the default movement animation not look like you are literally walking through the maps. Maybe that would do it.

I can't wait to see Chief running from the Covenant plasma death beam in Anniversary.

 

[m23]

Good list. Here's what I came up with off the top of my head:

1. Halo has strayed too far from the balanced, even playing field design of Halo 1 and 2. Armor abilities, perks, ordnance drops, and perks locked behind DLC paywalls are all examples of this.
2. Mediocre maps in Reach and Halo 4.
3. Replace Forge with a more fleshed out map editor.
4. Mishandling of objective gametypes (Assault, CTF).
5. Poor playlist management (Custom Games Browser please!)
6. The poor approach to DLC (Again, CGB please!)
7. Flinch
8. Sprint
9. Hit markers
10. Grenade Indicators
11. Customizable Controls
12. Y axis sensitivity

Those are all over the map, and the interconnected issues are best analyzed without trying to separate them, but it's 2:23 AM here and I'm sleepy.

Pretty good list, although I don't particularly mind hitmarkers or grenade indicators. Playlist management is huge though.

 

[NobleGundam]

People you played with from what population? If you were asking active Halo 4 players, that might be a questionable in terms of gauging what the potential general Halo community would prefer.


Well, if we're playing that game.

Dat correlation

Ohh..

 

[willow ve]

Ohh..

Did someone get let go over the whole Spartan wheelchair graphic fiasco?

 

[Poker Face]

Did someone get let go over the whole Spartan wheelchair graphic fiasco?

I don't think so but someone apologized for it.

 

[-Ryn]

Ohh..

 

[squidhands]

Sprint will be back in Halo 5. Can't do cover slide or shoulder ram or Iron Man 3-point landing without at least a light jog first.

 

[The Henery]

Ozzy's also perpetuating the whole competitive-fun split thing. There's overlap, it's not binary.

This is true.

 

[squidhands]

The last time I had fun competing was that time I played against an elementary school t-ball team.

The parents yelled at me for shoving their precious children to the ground each time I hit a home run, but goddamn it was a blast and totally worth the restraining order.

 

[Nebula]

The last time I had fun competing was that time I played against an elementary school t-ball team.

The parents yelled at me for shoving their precious children to the ground each time I hit a home run, but goddamn it was a blast and totally worth the restraining order.

Dead.

 

[DopeyFish]

Why sprint is terrible:

It wrecks the concept of map control and pressure... the one thing halo is great at
It destroys predictability
It hurts the importance of vehicles
It tosses race to power out the window
It hurts CQC, forces more long range/pre-emptive defensive play

The second you lose map control and predictability is the second you have a B tier competitive game. We already have enough CoD games as it is so why strive for such a low bar?

 

[squidhands]

I'm pretty good at predicting that the asshole I'm shooting at will almost always sprint the fuck away from me.

 

[Welfare]

Why sprint is terrible:

It wrecks the concept of map control and pressure... the one thing halo is great at
It destroys predictability
It hurts the importance of vehicles
It tosses race to power out the window
It hurts CQC, forces more long range/pre-emptive defensive play

The second you lose map control and predictability is the second you have a B tier competitive game. We already have enough CoD games as it is so why strive for such a low bar?

The CoD sales.

Halo 4 is the fastest selling Halo game. Why is this? Cause it can sprint. Sprint = faster sales.

 

[DopeyFish]

The CoD sales.

Halo 4 is the fastest selling Halo game. Why is this? Cause it can sprint. Sprint = faster sales.

It also sprinted itself into the ground

 

[Homeboyd]

The CoD sales.

Halo 4 is the fastest selling Halo game. Why is this? Cause it can sprint. Sprint = faster sales.

Halo is like the Dallas Cowboys. Hasn't been good in years but people are stuck on the memories of the good ole days and so they keep tuning in... hoping those days will return. Cowboys are worth more now than they have ever been and are an absolute shit team.

 

[Welfare]

It also sprinted itself into the ground

Tripping could be a way to balance sprint in Halo 5.

 

[Nebula]

Just played the closest game ever and I hated every last second of it because the opposing team only kept up through the abuse of camo. Three camo snipers on Ragnarok is a horrible, horrible thing to be a part of.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I enjoy sprint.

Or, they need to make the default movement animation not look like you are literally walking through the maps. Maybe that would do it. When there's a battle on the other side of the map it feels like you are enjoying a walk in the park trying to get there.

Agreed. Sprint makes me feel like I'm rushing somewhere instead of leisurely strolling over. I'm actually okay with sprint for this reason but other solutions are possible and have been suggested in this thread. Sometimes I feel like everyone just wants Halo 2 with updated graphics every three years but I enjoy it when they try new things and shake it up.

 

[User 73706]

But I love ranked and I think competitive is fun. That said, Halo is more than just hyper barebones settings all the time.

So the group argument is sprint makes maps big but I say relegate it to BTB and post this about why:

Honestly it's such a narrow vision about having a discussion, even when I agree about arena and NO sprint but want to talk about other playlists.

I don't disagree that your heart is in the right place, but the problem is that you're immediately associating the ranked:competitive social:casual split as nominal, literal and definitive. In a perfect world, there doesn't necessarily have to be a split in mechanics between competitive and casual gameplay. Take CE for example. Fairly standardized weaponsets across the board, and social games are taking place synonymously with high-fidelity competitive ones. The main difference boils down to player counts and according maps, inclusion of vehicles, and the like. I don't remember which game you started with, but if you view competitive as barebones or stripped-down, then chances are that game has a bad and/or unbalanced sandbox. Take Reach, for example. There was so much jank in the overall arsenal that its competitive utility devolved into a sandbox arguably smaller than CE's, because distilled there was barely anything balanced to the sandbox.

There are also a variety of solutions to make large maps viable for infantry without Sprint's inclusion. Examples include specific infantry-friendly routes coinciding with larger vehicle playspaces (such as Sidewinder and Gephyrophobia, more recently Breakneck and Meltdown, the latter's implementation notwithstanding), frequent access to reconnaisance vehicles throughout the map and not just at home bases (Valhalla and Sandtrap), or even increasing player base speed to account for the larger distances, which still keeps ganeplay moving forward.

The problem with Sprint isn't the fact that it's an increase in speed - the problem is that it makes you sacrifice a core principle of Halo's "holy trinity of gameplay," two of them, actually! Under normal circumstances, it's possible to use guns, grenades or melee at any point in combat except for when one of said thirds of the trinity is active. The exception in this case would be vehicles, but generally speaking you sacrifice those elements for a more defensive playstyle or a replacement function (boost over grenades, firepower over gunplay, stomping over CQC). Now, vehicles can usually get a pass because they should only come into play at a larger scale in the the first place. With Sprint, you're forcing a defensive, and - in a roundabout fashion - slower metagame because it's a mechanic that can arguably undo damage done by enemies in a way that guns, grenades, melee and in most cases even movement cannot provide. A defensive metagame is social in and of itself, so when implemented with pure infantry and not vehicles, it becomes toxic to infantry combat.

Suggesting Sprint purely for social would imply an overall more defensive sandbox for casual gameplay, which misses the point of the ranked-social split entirely. Good sandboxes aren't about making an insular binary where competitive is barebones and casual is lethargic and carefree. It's about balance: making sure the competitive and casual elements and coincide, with room for interchangeable fluidity between Ranked and Social sides so that they can coexist, and not just force a case of trickle-down competition where players that need accessibility are constantly destroyed because they can't sprint when they try out Ranked.

Tripping could be a way to balance sprint in Halo 5.

You shut your whore mouth.

 

[Nebula]

Agreed. Sprint makes me feel like I'm rushing somewhere instead of leisurely strolling over. I'm actually okay with sprint for this reason but other solutions are possible and have been suggested in this thread. Sometimes I feel like everyone just wants Halo 2 with updated graphics every three years but I enjoy it when they try new things and shake it up.

Sprint wasn't a new thing though was it? It received community backlash when it was introduced with Reach. This isn't something they threw in to shake it up. It was 343 seeing that other shooters still had sprint so Halo must continue to have it.

 

[Nirvana]

I enjoy sprint.

Or, they need to make the default movement animation not look like you are literally walking through the maps. Maybe that would do it. When there's a battle on the other side of the map it feels like you are enjoying a walk in the park trying to get there.

I'm not sure the argument is really about whether sprint, as a game mechanic is bad or not, it's about whether Halo needs sprint in order to be fun/competitive. I don't think it does, as the first 3 iterations kind of prove.

Sprint as a mechanic works incredibly well in games like COD and Battlefield, because of kill times and map scale respectively. All Halo really needs is a return to higher base movement speed, and we have the illusion that our Spartans are sprinting anyway.

 

[squidhands]

Roller skates instead of sprint. Good enough for 80's Iron Man, good enough for modern day Halo.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Like I've advocated before, I'd be fine without actual sprint if the default walk animation was changed a bit to feel more like you're at least jogging. Watching Halo 2 this weekend you can really see it stand out. It looks like the Spartans are just walking around the map when not in battle hopping around.

I could deal with a slightly faster movement speed and a change in animation in place of sprint I think.

 

[Rockyrock]

The CoD sales.

Halo 4 is the fastest selling Halo game. Why is this? Cause it can sprint. Sprint = faster sales.

Its the fastest selling Halo game because it was released during the biggest install base. That's literally the only reason.

 

[User 73706]

Its the fastest selling Halo game because it was released during the biggest install base. That's literally the only reason.

He was joking.

 

[Nebula]

BoltShot, LightRifle and Pulse Grenade mastered. Suppressor needs ~550 more for mastery.

 

[Orochinagis]

BoltShot, LightRifle and Pulse Grenade mastered. Suppressor needs ~550 more for mastery.

Then get nerfed cuz cant use the DMR and everyone goes close combat.

 

[Ashes2Bashers]

Sprint has no place in Halo imo..

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

The current sprint animation has a cool down effect at the end where you can't shoot. Your aiming reticle is visible, but you're not allowed to take a shot. If any form of sprint remains in the games going forward this needs to change. The instant I stop sprinting I should be allowed to start shooting. No cool down period.

I like the way you think.

little sponge duuude

 

[Enfinit]

Halo 4 is the fastest selling Halo game. Why is this? Cause it can sprint. Sprint = faster sales.

People didn't sprint to stores to buy Halo 4 because they added a sprint mechanic...

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Roller skates instead of sprint. Good enough for 80's Iron Man, good enough for modern day Halo.

Secret Wars? I don't know why Sprint is still a debate. Just split it off into it's own ranked playlist. (No sprint) The core players hate it. The CoD crowd and younger generation like it because overall it makes the game easier.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Its the fastest selling Halo game because it was released during the biggest install base. That's literally the only reason.

Skyward Sword added sprint and had an even bigger install base and its sales were some of the lowest in franchise history

so its not just sprint...

Spoiler

its sprint and armor abilities/perks. Next time you'll know better, Nintendo

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

People didn't sprint to stores to buy Halo 4 because they added a sprint mechanic...

No but let's be honest. We were all in the dark about what Halo 4 actually was until it leaked and everyone was going to give it a chance. Even some GAF members played it and praised it. IDK if H5 gets that same chance, especially with DLC which you NEVER see in H4 anymore.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

Sprint is awful, I'd rather the movement speed was increased. Having a thrust ability in the game might be alright, but I'd rather have neither.

Unfortunately, looking at the beta trailer, at least one is gonna be in the game.

 

[Nebula]

Still waiting for the DLC to go free so those who currently have it can actually play what they paid for.