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HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.

jem0208

Member
But we haven't had 13 years of solid gameplay. The past 10 years have been comprised of clumsy core gameplay with layers of garbage thrown on top. Innovation at this point would be a simple-yet-deep game, not more one-off "abilities." True variety in gameplay is only going to come from one place; the players. That can only happen if you give players the freedom to play as an individual, which can only come from a large skill curve. Increase base movement, decrease aim assists, increase base strafe speed; these are the things that will increase the skill gap.

If they don't fix the core gameplay, adding an element like dash is simply going to be more of the same; Band-Aid fixes that don't solve the real issue.

I 100% disagree with saying that the last 10 years of Halo have had bad core gameplay. The only Halo I have felt hasn't had exemplary gameplay is Reach due to bloom and even that was a fantastic game IMO.

By all means do what you said and increase base momement speed etc. Increasing the skill gap is definitely an important aspect. However you can do this as well creating new gameplay opportunities, something which is also of large importance. Increasing the skill gap isn't going to be enough to keep the game interesting.

SERIOUS TALK TIME.

DLC in Halo 5.

Halo can NOT keep the same DLC model it had in Reach and 4.

Playing a DLC map in Reach and 4 is a goddamn miracle. You NEVER see them anymore outside a DLC specific playlist.

You know what games come to mind that had great DLC integration?

Halo 2 - Why? Because you let the fans of the game pay for early access to the DLC. After a while it became free, letting everyone play it in matchmaking.

Battlefield Bad Company 2: Dice said it was very important for DLC to be free, for the games health. Granted, BC2 DLC was pretty much just gametypes on maps that previously didn't support them, but still. You would always find a match with the new stuff.

Halo 3 - Why? Well Heroic ended up becoming free which helped, but the major reason for this was ODST coming with ALL the maps. People bought the new Halo Game and it game with the full MP suite.


But it seems as devs now opt for a season pass model (which sorta helps) and/or permanantly paid DLC.

In Halo Reach and 4 it was near impossible to find DLC in regular matchmaking. In games like Titanfall I can only play the DLC in the DLC hoppers.

Halo 5 either needs the DLC to be completley free and just allow for microtransactions for cosmetic skins and and armor and shit.

Or

It needs to follow the Halo 2 model. And there is literally no better time for gaming to do that than right now. It's all about the incentives. You offer exlcusive achievements, double XP, armor and skin unlocks among other cool things if people pay the $10 to recieve the maps early. After a month or 2, they become free for everyone else, but those incentives are now gone.

I know I would totally be willing to buy maps early for cool shit and just to be able to play them first. And I know a bunch of people would also. If Halo 5 follows the same DLC system we've been getting, buying DLC will be straight up pointless.

I've talked about this a few times, mostly in /r/halo, and I completely agree.

I personally think making the maps free from the start and having a bunch of cosmetic microtransactions would be best. As long as 343 clearly communicates that the maps are going to be free.
 

BigShow36

Member
I
By all means do what you said and increase base momement speed etc. Increasing the skill gap is definitely an important aspect. However you can do this as well creating new gameplay opportunities, something which is also of large importance. Increasing the skill gap isn't going to be enough to keep the game interesting.

Does Soccer need to add a new gimmick every few years to keep the game interesting? Football? Rugby? Basketball? Golf? Any sport?

These games maintain their appeal because their core elements are based on simple concepts that reward players based on their ability. That's it. They are beloved around the world because they have an infinite skill gap. Halo needs to move back in that direction, and that is the only way to keep a game interesting for long periods of time.

Gimmicks wear off, a skill-gap does not.
 
SERIOUS TALK TIME.

DLC in Halo 5.

Halo can NOT keep the same DLC model it had in Reach and 4.

Playing a DLC map in Reach and 4 is a goddamn miracle. You NEVER see them anymore outside a DLC specific playlist.

You know what games come to mind that had great DLC integration?

Halo 2 - Why? Because you let the fans of the game pay for early access to the DLC. After a while it became free, letting everyone play it in matchmaking.

Battlefield Bad Company 2: Dice said it was very important for DLC to be free, for the games health. Granted, BC2 DLC was pretty much just gametypes on maps that previously didn't support them, but still. You would always find a match with the new stuff.

Halo 3 - Why? Well Heroic ended up becoming free which helped, but the major reason for this was ODST coming with ALL the maps. People bought the new Halo Game and it game with the full MP suite.


But it seems as devs now opt for a season pass model (which sorta helps) and/or permanantly paid DLC.

In Halo Reach and 4 it was near impossible to find DLC in regular matchmaking. In games like Titanfall I can only play the DLC in the DLC hoppers.

Halo 5 either needs the DLC to be completley free and just allow for microtransactions for cosmetic skins and and armor and shit.

Or

It needs to follow the Halo 2 model. And there is literally no better time for gaming to do that than right now. It's all about the incentives. You offer exlcusive achievements, double XP, armor and skin unlocks among other cool things if people pay the $10 to recieve the maps early. After a month or 2, they become free for everyone else, but those incentives are now gone.

I know I would totally be willing to buy maps early for cool shit and just to be able to play them first. And I know a bunch of people would also. If Halo 5 follows the same DLC system we've been getting, buying DLC will be straight up pointless.
Agree. Free maps are the way to go, just like GG does with Killzone.



One thing I'm really excited about is the new OST. I wonder how it will be. Can't wait to hear it!
 
SERIOUS TALK TIME.

DLC in Halo 5.

343i really have to force the outcome of dlc maps rotation in normal playlist this time, pairing you with dlc people and not just rely of making a DLC playlist.

DLC becoming free is useless if you never see them in rotation and if you ever see one, there is one dlc option with not so popular settings (KOTH lol) and the remaining two are the same valhalla map but with different settings.
 
DLC model in Halo is complete garbage and the sales of the packs are to no ones surprise, not good.

Charge for skins and amour, release free maps and game modes. You'll keep more players for longer and make more money while creating a better playing experience with new content for everyone and no fragmentation.
 
DLC model in Halo is complete garbage and the sales of the packs are to no ones surprise, not good.

Charge for skins and amour, release free maps and game modes. You'll keep more players for longer and make more money while creating a better playing experience with new content for everyone and no fragmentation.
Pm this to tashi

Speedy will buy enough skins to cover the cost of at least halo 5s marketing budget
 

nillapuddin

Member
*DLC Talk*

~bow down to Steely, its all been said~

HaloGAF new comers

If you like Metal Gear Solid, we're bro's.
If you like SWAT, we're bro's.
If you like COD Pieces, we're bro's.
If you're a Cardinals fan, we're not bro's.
 

blamite

Member
Basically 343 needs to steal the Mass Effect 3 DLC model. Except limit the paid stuff to cosmetics and not loadout stuff.

Damn, that game had a great multiplayer mode. I'd rather have a standalone version of that than ME4 homestly.
 

antigoon

Member
I wouldn't mind at all if 343 went kinda nuts with Spartan customization and offered paid stuff. Even with that, I think the best we can hope for is a Halo 2 DLC model where the maps cost a certain amount upfront and then either gradually decrease in price and become free or just become free at a later date. There's no point in having DLC if nobody plays it. It needs to be incorporated in the regular playlists.
 
I mentioned it briefly in Reclaimer Radio, but I think one way to implement Spartan Abilities without making them too Crysis or convoluted would be that, much like all the other functions your Spartan can universally perform across the franchise, "Spartan Ability" refers to a simple, almost binary mechanic whose diversity stems from the player's intuition. That is, it's a simple "push" or "pull," much like the Thruster Pack, with more advanced capabilities on an XYZ axis. Assuming every action from firing to Sprinting is a toggle and not a hold, analog functionality notwithstanding, let's pretend that this is a magical world where everyone's cool with Halo and Spartan Ability works in tandem with Sprint. For brevity's sake, I'm calling Spartan Ability "Revamp" for this small megapost. It's short for Reactive Entry Variant Augment-Mitigator Pulse or some horseshit.

The Revamp assumes that this is also a more momentum-focused Halo metagame, where combat is highly dependent on players being constantly on the move, regardless of the direction. Hitting the old AA button will cause the Revamp to move you in a Thruster-like juke, dependent on two factors: the analog sticks. The left analog stick allows you to control the XY orientation of the boost, while if you're airborne, the right analog stick sends you across the Z-axis in the direction you're facing, like an extremely low-fidelity sword-fly. So while in ordinary ground-based engagements where you're targeting grounded infantry, it'll act similarly to how the Thruster did. However, combining the Revamp with jumping, falling, etc. you can use that third axis of motion for a variety of purposes, ranging from a double-jump to a juke to just prolonging your airtime - or reducing it. This is where weird stuff like the ground-pound comes in.

Instead of bringing back Halo 2's momentum-based melee system, the Revamp comes with a variation of it, where a vanilla Revamp won't cause any damage, but performing a melee attack at the end of your boost adds a binary (as in, not affected by additional momentum or speed, it's just a simple "does it cause damage or does it not") punchy shockwave effect to it. This shockwave doesn't have EMP purposes or anything ridiculous - it's not even that powerful - the main place the Revamp melee comes in is during team play. Revamp-smashing produces considerable knockback (similar to, say, a Concussion Rifle's bolt) with next to no damage; it mainly produces the spark-flying spectacle we saw in the trailer. It's not meant to damage or outright kill players, it's meant to kill their momentum. For example, if you have a teammate sniping from a distance trying to pick out enemy Spartans in a firefight but don't want to risk shooting your teammates, a ground-pound would scatter everyone and heavily screw with the flow of the gunplay, allowing your sniper to pick them off more easily. As far as one-on-one engagements go, the Revamp-smash is mostly useless if you're facing an armed opponent - you do little to no damage to them, send them further back (out of your immediate melee range) and let them score more shots on you before finishing up with a melee or just a backpedaling volley.

Being such a basic utility would allow it to work without making Sprint a necessity in the sandbox, but at the same time, it also provides certain possibilities by combining them - all sorts of weird map control maneuvers, jukes, momentum-cancels, vaulting leaps over otherwise impassible obstacles, etc. promoting further variety and simultaneously making Sprint a little more entertaining to encounter in combat. Now, if an inexperienced enemy's losing a firefight and attempts to Sprint out of range, you can Revamp to stay on their trail without sacrificing gunplay as they just did - or you could even combine momentum from Sprint and Revamp to launch yourself at them for a backsmack.
 

jem0208

Member
Does Soccer need to add a new gimmick every few years to keep the game interesting? Football? Rugby? Basketball? Golf? Any sport?

These games maintain their appeal because their core elements are based on simple concepts that reward players based on their ability. That's it. They are beloved around the world because they have an infinite skill gap. Halo needs to move back in that direction, and that is the only way to keep a game interesting for long periods of time.

Gimmicks wear off, a skill-gap does not.

Sports really aren't compatible to games for a number of reasons but I'm not going to discuss that here because this is a thread about Halo.

I do agree that the skill gap is quite important in keeping a game interesting. However you can only increase the gap so far when it comes to games. You can only get so good at pressing buttons. Especially considering Halo uses an analog stick for aiming. Keeping a game very basic also limits how much you can increase the skill gap.

You keep claiming that gimmicks wear off, but why does anything not in the original core gameplay have to be a gimmick? If correctly implemented I think something like default thrusters could greatly add to the gameplay and the skill gap. The movement system is definitely somewhere Halo could greatly be improved. Thrusters could be that improvement.

The above post by sub zero basically explains why I think thrusters could add to the game. Something like he described would greatly add to the skill gap whilst also being not at all gimmicky.
 

AlStrong

Member
Honestly... does anyone even care about Halo 4 inclusion in Master Chief Collection? Literally no one is excited or even remotely cares about it.

I might care if they change the length of time before weapons & items disappear in campaign. Would be nice too if stolen vehicles didn't wholly disappear at checkpoints in the Reclaimer level, although I suppose that would break their chosen game design.
 

jem0208

Member
I might care if they change the length of time before weapons & items disappear in campaign. Would be nice too if stolen vehicles didn't wholly disappear at checkpoints in the Reclaimer level, although I suppose that would break their chosen game design.
Weapons disappearing was a due to hardware limitations iirc.
 
One game of invasion and it was a blast. Sorry again noble, but I'll definitely be back on on 2 hours or so.

Reach is still so good

Edit: sai knows what's up. Haven't played reach in so long and the Ui shits on so many newer games UI.
 
Does Soccer need to add a new gimmick every few years to keep the game interesting? Football? Rugby? Basketball? Golf? Any sport?

These games maintain their appeal because their core elements are based on simple concepts that reward players based on their ability. That's it. They are beloved around the world because they have an infinite skill gap. Halo needs to move back in that direction, and that is the only way to keep a game interesting for long periods of time.

Gimmicks wear off, a skill-gap does not.

Sports really aren't compatible to games for a number of reasons but I'm not going to discuss that here because this is a thread about Halo.

I do agree that the skill gap is quite important in keeping a game interesting. However you can only increase the gap so far when it comes to games. You can only get so good at pressing buttons. Especially considering Halo uses an analog stick for aiming. Keeping a game very basic also limits how much you can increase the skill gap.

You keep claiming that gimmicks wear off, but why does anything not in the original core gameplay have to be a gimmick? If correctly implemented I think something like default thrusters could greatly add to the gameplay and the skill gap. The movement system is definitely somewhere Halo could greatly be improved. Thrusters could be that improvement.

The above post by sub zero basically explains why I think thrusters could add to the game. Something like he described would greatly add to the skill gap whilst also being not at all gimmicky.

Recharging health? Total gimmick bro

gimme dem health pacx
----

You can add depth by adding complexity, it just has to be done in a balanced, predictable, and otherwise fair way. AA's were not, but extra mobility options for everyone across the board might.
 

jem0208

Member
Recharging health? Total gimmick bro

gimme dem health pacx
----

You can add depth by adding complexity, it just has to be done in a balanced, predictable, and otherwise fair way. AA's were not, but extra mobility options for everyone across the board might.
Exactly, thrusters could definitely be a way to add depth without shitting on the basic Halo core.
 
How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?
Just started today and lurked for 2 years

How old are you? What country or state are you posting from?
18, US California

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Since I was 6 and yes I've played them all

What mode do you spend most of your time in?
(i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)

I like to fiddle with with everything but mostly Multiplayer

What is your favorite playlist?
(i.e. MLG, Action Sack)

MLG, shit gets intense but I also love BTB and snipers

- Other Halo sites/forums you have been a member of.
Halo waypoint but I find that place kind of boring now

- Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
Currently replaying darksouls, halo 3 and Killer Instinct

- Personal bio stuff. (occupation/hobbies/etc.)
not much just finished high school and currently applying for college. I'm currently interested in studying Computer science
 

BigShow36

Member
Sports really aren't compatible to games for a number of reasons but I'm not going to discuss that here because this is a thread about Halo.

I do agree that the skill gap is quite important in keeping a game interesting. However you can only increase the gap so far when it comes to games. You can only get so good at pressing buttons. Especially considering Halo uses an analog stick for aiming. Keeping a game very basic also limits how much you can increase the skill gap.

You keep claiming that gimmicks wear off, but why does anything not in the original core gameplay have to be a gimmick? If correctly implemented I think something like default thrusters could greatly add to the gameplay and the skill gap. The movement system is definitely somewhere Halo could greatly be improved. Thrusters could be that improvement.

The above post by sub zero basically explains why I think thrusters could add to the game. Something like he described would greatly add to the skill gap whilst also being not at all gimmicky.


My view of game design and multiplayer begins with necessity and simplicity. How do we fulfill the needs of gameplay in the most elegant, simple manner possible? A core gameplay element is something that is fundamental to the function of the game.

What necessity would thrusters fulfill that can't be accomplished simply by making movement more responsive?
 
How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?
Just started today and lurked for 2 years

How old are you? What country or state are you posting from?
18, US California

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Since I was 6 and yes I've played them all

What mode do you spend most of your time in?
(i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)

I like to fiddle with with everything but mostly Multiplayer

What is your favorite playlist?
(i.e. MLG, Action Sack)

MLG, shit gets intense but I also love BTB and snipers

- Other Halo sites/forums you have been a member of.
Halo waypoint but I find that place kind of boring now

- Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
Currently replaying darksouls, halo 3 and Killer Instinct

- Personal bio stuff. (occupation/hobbies/etc.)
not much just finished high school and currently applying for college. I'm currently interested in studying Computer science

Protip: please don't cram an entire landscape-orientation comic panel into your avatar and hope it works. Here, I made this for you.

ibwis5CPcrAUGk.png


It's Another Halo Comic Strip, it's Chief, it's transparent, colors made more vibrant, and so on. use pls.

My view of game design and multiplayer begins with necessity and simplicity. How do we fulfill the needs of gameplay in the most elegant, simple manner possible? A core gameplay element is something that is fundamental to the function of the game.

What necessity would thrusters fulfill that can't be accomplished simply by making movement more responsive?

As far as core gameplay goes (that is, not improvements like graphics, UI, etc.), what things if any do you like that the Halo sequels introduced?
 

willow ve

Member
Exactly, thrusters could definitely be a way to add depth without shitting on the basic Halo core.
That's a mighty big COULD. Put that shit on a toggle so it can be turned off in gametype settings and doesn't depend on waiting months for a title update to fix broken mechanics. Long wait for broken issues kills community numbers.
 

Obscured

Member
SERIOUS TALK TIME.

DLC in Halo 5.

Halo can NOT keep the same DLC model it had in Reach and 4.

Playing a DLC map in Reach and 4 is a goddamn miracle. You NEVER see them anymore outside a DLC specific playlist.

You know what games come to mind that had great DLC integration?

Halo 2 - Why? Because you let the fans of the game pay for early access to the DLC. After a while it became free, letting everyone play it in matchmaking.

Battlefield Bad Company 2: Dice said it was very important for DLC to be free, for the games health. Granted, BC2 DLC was pretty much just gametypes on maps that previously didn't support them, but still. You would always find a match with the new stuff.

Halo 3 - Why? Well Heroic ended up becoming free which helped, but the major reason for this was ODST coming with ALL the maps. People bought the new Halo Game and it game with the full MP suite.


But it seems as devs now opt for a season pass model (which sorta helps) and/or permanantly paid DLC.

In Halo Reach and 4 it was near impossible to find DLC in regular matchmaking. In games like Titanfall I can only play the DLC in the DLC hoppers.

Halo 5 either needs the DLC to be completley free and just allow for microtransactions for cosmetic skins and and armor and shit.

Or

It needs to follow the Halo 2 model. And there is literally no better time for gaming to do that than right now. It's all about the incentives. You offer exlcusive achievements, double XP, armor and skin unlocks among other cool things if people pay the $10 to recieve the maps early. After a month or 2, they become free for everyone else, but those incentives are now gone.

I know I would totally be willing to buy maps early for cool shit and just to be able to play them first. And I know a bunch of people would also. If Halo 5 follows the same DLC system we've been getting, buying DLC will be straight up pointless.

Preach on.

I'm kind of at the point were I won't buy DLC anymore until after I see how the population is. I'd like to buy the new Titanfall maps, but not going to happen right now and same thing with the next Halo game. A timed approach (when the timing is known) or preferably just armor and skins would be best. With the way achievements work on the XB1 now it would be easy to just have a active ones during the pre-release period for maps.
 
What necessity would thrusters fulfill that can't be accomplished simply by making movement more responsive?

"Necessity" may be the wrong word, but I think the uses of Thrusters are quite varied. Someone rushes you for a beatdown, jump+Thrust around them. Mancannon+Thrusters makes for some interesting maneuvers. The mind games you can create by outclassing your enemy (ie: Jump off the ledge on Haven and thrust backwards into the bottom floor).

Thrusters always felt like they would have felt like a natural progression to Halo movement and actually deepens the meta game IMO. Similarly, the ground pound might bring about some exciting moments. First thing I'm picturing is being on the top level of Prisoner, having no grenades as the guy is approaching Camo/Rockets so you need to make a quick decision, jump off the top catwalks and SLAM!

etc. etc.
 
I think keeping Halo 4 levels of fall damage would be a good way to make sure ground-pounding doesn't get spammed excessively. Any less fall damage and you're just going to have assholes jumping off skyscrapers and meteor smashing whoever they can instead of actually using it productively.
 

daedalius

Member
I absolutely love the dash mechanics in Titanfall's titan combat. Always use the strider.

I hope the H5 thrusters act a bit like that but with more variety (ground pounds, aerial dashes (which we already have really), etc). The thruster pack in H4 would be much more amazing if it had more than 1 charge.

I think keeping Halo 4 levels of fall damage would be a good way to make sure ground-pounding doesn't get spammed excessively. Any less fall damage and you're just going to have assholes jumping off skyscrapers and meteor smashing whoever they can instead of actually using it productively.

OMG THAT SOUNDS INCREDIBLE. It's like the Space Marine jump pack all over again.
 
Sub-Zero at a Starbucks;117903707]Protip: please don't cram an entire landscape-orientation comic panel into your avatar and hope it works. Here, I made this for you.

ibwis5CPcrAUGk.png


It's Another Halo Comic Strip, it's Chief, it's transparent, colors made more vibrant, and so on. use pls

Why thank you kind sir!
 
I absolutely love the dash mechanics in Titanfall's titan combat. Always use the strider.

I hope the H5 thrusters act a bit like that but with more variety (ground pounds, aerial dashes (which we already have really), etc). The thruster pack in H4 would be much more amazing if it had more than 1 charge.

OMG THAT SOUNDS INCREDIBLE. It's like the Space Marine jump pack all over again.

I think the whole point of a new-and-improved Thruster would be keeping it to one charge so that you aren't just whizzing around and screwing with movement too much. With a single thrust per charge, you're at least going into the fray knowing someone can only change direction once per charge in the middle of a firefight, meaning it would have to be used as a pivot rather than to play Space Naruto.

As for jumping off skyscrapers, I was picturing it more like dumbshits ground-pounding from the top of the Spire in hopes of crushing vehicles below only to break their ankles and violently ragdoll once they hit the surface.

I didn't know spooder was part of MusicalHaloGAF.

Why you kind sir!

HOW DID YOU GET IT UN-TRANSPARENCIED AND COMPRESSED ON UPLOAD

I LITERALLY GAVE YOU IT PERFECTLY FORMATTED

YOU COULD EVEN USE THE AVATAR FROM THE URL INSTEAD OF UPLOAD IF YOU HAD TO
 

jem0208

Member
My view of game design and multiplayer begins with necessity and simplicity. How do we fulfill the needs of gameplay in the most elegant, simple manner possible? A core gameplay element is something that is fundamental to the function of the game.

What necessity would thrusters fulfill that can't be accomplished simply by making movement more responsive?
I feel that leads to gameplay that is far too simplistic. If you apply that logic to everything then what's the point of having different guns?

Thrusters add the necessity that is variety. They also offer the opportunity for a wide variety of different gameplay options. Which can add a large amount of depth to the basic gameplay.
 

daedalius

Member
I think the whole point of a new-and-improved Thruster would be keeping it to one charge so that you aren't just whizzing around and screwing with movement too much. With a single thrust per charge, you're at least going into the fray knowing someone can only change direction once per charge in the middle of a firefight, meaning it would have to be used as a pivot rather than to play Space Naruto.

I feel like how the Thruster works in multiplayer in H4 right now, 2 charges wouldn't be absurd or anything, its not nearly as ridiculous as evade ever was in terms of how far you could transition.

I think having at least 2 for H5 would lead to more interesting movement dynamics and just 1, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
I think the whole point of a new-and-improved Thruster would be keeping it to one charge so that you aren't just whizzing around and screwing with movement too much. With a single thrust per charge, you're at least going into the fray knowing someone can only change direction once per charge in the middle of a firefight, meaning it would have to be used as a pivot rather than to play Space Naruto.

As for jumping off skyscrapers, I was picturing it more like dumbshits ground-pounding from the top of the Spire in hopes of crushing vehicles below only to break their ankles and violently ragdoll once they hit the surface.

I didn't know spooder was part of MusicalHaloGAF.



HOW DID YOU GET IT UN-TRANSPARENCIED AND COMPRESSED ON UPLOAD

I LITERALLY GAVE YOU IT PERFECTLY FORMATTED

YOU COULD EVEN USE THE AVATAR FROM THE URL INSTEAD OF UPLOAD IF YOU HAD TO
I tried to to use to URL but it said it wouldn't fit

sorry not familiar with picture formats :(
 
I feel like how the Thruster works in multiplayer in H4 right now, 2 charges wouldn't be absurd or anything, its not nearly as ridiculous as evade ever was in terms of how far you could transition.

I think having at least 2 for H5 would lead to more interesting movement dynamics and just 1, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Let me put it this way: the Revamp mechanic was written out with the intent of constant momentum, where player movement was perpetually in place, life until death until respawn and so on and so forth. If you give players too many options in the middle of a firefight, it can become unmanageable - for example, "is that guy holding a Battle Rifle or an MA5K Carbine?" or "Does he have Promethean Vision or Active Camo?" Pretend that Spartan movement is reduced to a two-dimensional scale. With a single thrust, Spartans can create lines, that is, movement - but they're still advancing in some direction like a game of Snake. With two Thrusts, the Spartan can now form a closed-circuit polygon over the course of a single action: a Sprint or strafe forming side one, thrust one side two, and thrust two closing their triangle, meaning they've essentially gained zero ground. While with a single thrust, even if you backpedal and end up at your original point pre-polygonal action, this can be viewed as something closer to erasing on a sheet of paper: you're correction your trajectory, perhaps to initiate fake-out melee combat only to gun the enemy down as they get cocky. With two players with a thrust apiece, they can form a momentum square of sorts and by extension continue their fight ad infinitum, but this is within the context of two players supplementing one another's movements to further lengthen the fight - it's a byproduct of player innovation rather than being an explicit fault of gameplay itself.

My "ideal Halo" wouldn't have thrusters or Sprint in the first place, but as-is most of my recent ideas have been made with the explicit intent of always carrying the game forward and being primarily supplementary or offensive, rather than explicitly defensive mechanics. You can try double-thrusting with unlimited AAs enabled in Halo 4, and it becomes a complete clusterfuck because it throws strafing out the window in favor of going Gemini Man on everyone's asses.

I tried to to use to URL but it said it wouldn't fit

sorry not familiar with picture formats :(

Here, see if this works. Last one was uncompressed.

ibuQseYZjUEdaR.png
 
I feel that leads to gameplay that is far too simplistic. If you apply that logic to everything then what's the point of having different guns?

Thrusters add the necessity that is variety. They also offer the opportunity for a wide variety of different gameplay options. Which can add a large amount of depth to the basic gameplay.

Obviously a Halo map (the only Halo map) should be a giant room with absolutely flat floors and a giant box in the middle. Teams spawn on opposite sides of the box.

1sk, hitbox is 1px wide on a 1080p screen. Players spawn with a hitscan single-shot weapon. Everybody gets one bullet.

Sounds like fun on a bun to me!
 
Obviously a Halo map (the only Halo map) should be a giant room with absolutely flat floors and a giant box in the middle. Teams spawn on opposite sides of the box.

1sk, hitbox is 1px wide on a 1080p screen. Players spawn with a hitscan single-shot weapon. Everybody gets one bullet.

Sounds like fun on a bun to me!

ibdzhgdERjLgcj.jpg
 

BigShow36

Member
As far as core gameplay goes (that is, not improvements like graphics, UI, etc.), what things if any do you like that the Halo sequels introduced?

I like the PP charge disabling vehicles for a few seconds.


I feel that leads to gameplay that is far too simplistic. If you apply that logic to everything then what's the point of having different guns?

To fulfill different roles. Look at Halo CE as an example; literally every weapon aside from the needler filled a unique, niche role. They were all valuable depending on the situation, and it was up to the player to interpret the battlefield intel to determine what combination of weapons they would carry.


"Necessity" may be the wrong word, but I think the uses of Thrusters are quite varied. Someone rushes you for a beatdown, jump+Thrust around them. Mancannon+Thrusters makes for some interesting maneuvers. The mind games you can create by outclassing your enemy (ie: Jump off the ledge on Haven and thrust backwards into the bottom floor).

No one should be rushing around for beatdowns in the first place. That issue arose from the poor gameplay choices of Halo 2 and then continued in perpetuity.

While I do see the benefit for certain movement situations for thrusters, I think that would be outweighed by the detriment it would bring to actual combat situations.

I feel like how the Thruster works in multiplayer in H4 right now, 2 charges wouldn't be absurd or anything, its not nearly as ridiculous as evade ever was in terms of how far you could transition.

I think having at least 2 for H5 would lead to more interesting movement dynamics and just 1, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Would the ability recharge? If so, how quickly? You're going to have people use their thrusters and then get into a firefight the next moment and find themselves at an inherent disadvantage because their thruster hasn't recharged yet. Are you okay with that? If thrusters don't recharge, now you're punishing people for living longer.




I could be wrong, depending on how they implement thrusters (if they do at all). I've always been slightly on the fence regarding movement options like sprint and dash. However, they typically disrupt map flow and combat at the end of the day, so I'd rather have a faster base Halo game than a slower one with movement gimmicks.
 
How long have you been a member of NeoGAF? How long have you lurked?
Few days, but have observed for a while.

How old are you? What country or state are you posting from?
23, UK

How long have you been a Halo fan? Have you played all the games?
Probably since I was 11, have played all of them. Won at all of them as well.

What mode do you spend most of your time in?
(i.e. Multiplayer, Campaign, Forge, Firefight, Theater)

Varies, but I prefer campaign over playing with the commoners in multiplayer.

What is your favorite playlist?
(i.e. MLG, Action Sack)
Rumble pit, relying on the lessers tends to hurt my performance.

- Other Halo sites/forums you have been a member of.
Non are dignified enough for my time.

- Any other games you spend a lot of time playing.
I have about a 170 games in my collection, as such it varies.

- Personal bio stuff. (occupation/hobbies/etc.)
I am the 49th Lord of the Thrappleper family, that said I am a man of the world. I believe that I represent the average person, I take that responsibility and guide them. Whilst I may be an alluent and highly intelligent man, I have no desire to remind the commoners of their position. I am truly as remarkable person.
(In actuality I'm a grill chef living with my ladyfriend leading a somewhat respectable and boring life. I like video games, paintball, and travelling)
 

daedalius

Member
Let me put it this way: the Revamp mechanic was written out with the intent of constant momentum, where player movement was perpetually in place, life until death until respawn and so on and so forth. If you give players too many options in the middle of a firefight, it can become unmanageable - for example, "is that guy holding a Battle Rifle or an MA5K Carbine?" or "Does he have Promethean Vision or Active Camo?" Pretend that Spartan movement is reduced to a two-dimensional scale. With a single thrust, Spartans can create lines, that is, movement - but they're still advancing in some direction like a game of Snake. With two Thrusts, the Spartan can now form a closed-circuit polygon over the course of a single action: a Sprint or strafe forming side one, thrust one side two, and thrust two closing their triangle, meaning they've essentially gained zero ground. While with a single thrust, even if you backpedal and end up at your original point pre-polygonal action, this can be viewed as something closer to erasing on a sheet of paper: you're correction your trajectory, perhaps to initiate fake-out melee combat only to gun the enemy down as they get cocky. With two players with a thrust apiece, they can form a momentum square of sorts and by extension continue their fight ad infinitum, but this is within the context of two players supplementing one another's movements to further lengthen the fight - it's a byproduct of player innovation rather than being an explicit fault of gameplay itself.

My "ideal Halo" wouldn't have thrusters or Sprint in the first place, but as-is most of my recent ideas have been made with the explicit intent of always carrying the game forward and being primarily supplementary or offensive, rather than explicitly defensive mechanics. You can try double-thrusting with unlimited AAs enabled in Halo 4, and it becomes a complete clusterfuck because it throws strafing out the window in favor of going Gemini Man on everyone's asses.



Here, see if this works. Last one was uncompressed.

ibuQseYZjUEdaR.png

Is there a way to setup a custom game type where you could thrust 2-3 times without incurring a cool down?

Would be interesting to try.
 
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