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[-Ryn]

Callouts: the shorter the better. That is all.

Why is Speedy a mormon?

Because reasons I guess.

Never go full meta.

The more meta you go, the easier it becomes to end up with your head up your ass.

When has something ever looked exactly like concept art?

I mean, it'd be nice if you could just take a piece of concept art and magically make it turn into a full fledged 3D world, but the real world doesn't work like that.

I think the new maps are just god damn awesome. Players will stand out great since they will contrast against the backgrounds.

I don't think that players would be much harder to spot if the map had any actual color diversity bro. I like a lot of the maps as I said but this is the most disappointing for me. I loved Coagulation.

In regards to concepts, there's usually a lot of concepts created in the beginning and then some are chosen. The chosen Concept art is supposed to give a sense of the final product and what it's overall look or atmosphere. There may be tweaks depending on the medium but the final product should still be close to the concept. The only real similarity between what we have now and the concept art is that there are 2 bases in the middle of a canyon

Spoiler

woopty fuckin' doo

. Destiny is a good example since most of the concepts line up well with the final game. Bungie in general seems pretty good about that actually.

The concept art had a lot more going for it in my opinion but if you like what it is now that's fine. I just think it looks uninspired and lame.

I dunno, I think it needs a wider range of color still. Anyways, I didn't mess with the saturation much at all, but rather went in and identified certain color hues and shifted them.

I just wish they stayed closer to the concepts of the maps:

While I realize games change from concept to the final build, the art has a way wider range of colors and distinct visual traits. The art looks 'next gen', the game looks like a slightly beefed up 'last gen' engine.

It's a shame because the concept art was gorgeous and really nice to look at. This is just... blah. You're edit had a nice look to it with some color.

You people are all going overboard on the color adjustments. You don't need to touch saturation levels. All you need to do is a white balance adjustment to shift everything to remove the color cast.

As for color casts, at least 343 changes it up. Halo Reach is tinged a sickly blue-green for essentially every campaign mission.

I personally think that there should still be a bit more color but that still looks nice.

 

[IHaveIce]

Speedy change the color at least pls, I always think Overdoziz is posting

 

[ArchedThunder]

You people are all going overboard on the color adjustments. You don't need to touch saturation levels. All you need to do is a white balance adjustment to shift everything to remove the color cast.

As for color casts, at least 343 changes it up. Halo Reach is tinged a sickly blue-green for essentially every campaign mission.

Super quick and dirty edit of your edit to make it look more like Coag.

Now I'm even sadder

Bloodline not only artistically looks bad, but it graphically doesn't look anywhere near the other maps in H2A. Such a shame that one of the most iconic and recognizable Halo maps got this treatment.

 

[Sikamikanico]

Such green.

Yeah, immediately more attractive to the eye.

Still - I shall reserve judgement until I play it.

Which will be in like, what? 5 weeks?

Stupidly excited for this game.

 

[king picollo]

Lots of brown is never a good idea eh Sik

 

[Hypertrooper]

I do not want to judge it right away because I have not played it yet and Lock Out looks much much better in-game than on those screen, but a bit more green would make it more vibrant.

 

[willow ve]

Can't really tell from the one screen shot we have - but did they finally make the cliffs symmetrical? Map needs it. Much easier to approach red base due to completely enclosed cliff on that side.

 

[-Ryn]

Can't really tell from the one screen shot we have - but did they finally make the cliffs symmetrical? Map needs it. Much easier to approach red base due to completely enclosed cliff on that side.

But dynamic gameplay

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Such green.

Yeah, immediately more attractive to the eye.

Still - I shall reserve judgement until I play it.

Which will be in like, what? 5 weeks?

Stupidly excited for this game.

Lots of brown is never a good idea eh Sik

Ay, ay, what's happening here you two?

 

[willow ve]

But dynamic gameplay

But "functional symmetry" amirite.jpg

 

[dwells]

Frankie, any chance of addressing the community's concerns regarding color palette/aesthetic choices?

 

[Tawpgun]

Super quick and dirty edit of your edit to make it look more like Coag.

Now I'm even sadder

Bloodline not only artistically looks bad, but it graphically doesn't look anywhere near the other maps in H2A. Such a shame that one of the most iconic and recognizable Halo maps got this treatment.

343 hates grass. It is known.

 

[Fuchsdh]

343 hates grass. It is known.

I can understand how it's a pain to do, but non-texture grass is something I hoped we'd see more of in next gen, and as a rule we really haven't.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Frankie, any chance of addressing the community's concerns regarding color palette/aesthetic choices?

Pick one of the few responses below:

1. "Things are still in development and subject to change"
2. "We can't satisfy everybody"
3. "We get hundreds of complaints a day, we just can't get to all of them. Look how long it took Bungie to add matchmaking to their Raids. FIVE YEARS!"
4. "Who are you again?"

 

[dwells]

Pick one of the few responses below:

1. "Things are still in development and subject to change"
2. "We can't satisfy everybody"
3. "We get hundreds of complaints a day, we just can't get to all of them. Look how long it took Bungie to add matchmaking to their Raids. FIVE YEARS!"
4. "Who are you again?"

5. Okay, we fixed the color, but we've forced SMG starts on everything. That includes Halo 1.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Pick one of the few responses below:

1. "Things are still in development and subject to change"
2. "We can't satisfy everybody"
3. "We get hundreds of complaints a day, we just can't get to all of them. Look how long it took Bungie to add matchmaking to their Raids. FIVE YEARS!"
4. "Who are you again?"

A part of me hopes Frankie says this out loud when replying to certain posts.

lol

 

[Sikamikanico]

Ay, ay, what's happening here you two?

In the days of Halo 2/3/Reach, there were two teams.

Team Pink (Obviously the best team)

And Team Brown (who suck)

They may well be featured in this montage, but I can't remember.

 

[Slightly Live]

This thread makes me sad.

A couple of random internet folks using Paint can make better versions of maps than 343.

The brown, assish, muddy, shitty visuals helped me stay away from Halo 4 in the long term and they are making the same mistakes with remakes. Again.

The Valhalla remake was an utter disgrace visually and Coag seems more of the same.

I don't get it. H2 Anni campaign looks great...

I can understand how it's a pain to do, but non-texture grass is something I hoped we'd see more of in next gen, and as a rule we really haven't.

343 have given every shade of brown imaginable though. You like brown, right? It's a traditional Halo colour afterall.

 

[-Ryn]

Maybe there'll be a time when we can just straight up create our own maps that blow other peoples minds.
There will be tools to import your own assets and there'll be competitions where the map creators get paid for their work.
There will be special community map packs full of 343's top picks and they will be free too.

But "functional symmetry" amirite.jpg

About as functional as their playlist management

I can understand how it's a pain to do, but non-texture grass is something I hoped we'd see more of in next gen, and as a rule we really haven't.

Spoiler

The Wii U's next gen right?

 

[FyreWulff]

I can understand how it's a pain to do, but non-texture grass is something I hoped we'd see more of in next gen, and as a rule we really haven't.

The problem with realistic grass in a game like Halo is being able to see/ID dropped weapons.

The grass on Forge World interacted interestingly with certain combos of filters. Turned neon for Rave World

 

[User 73706]

From a technical perspective I can kinda see where 343/CA are coming from with emphasizing the rocks / human encampment in a forerunner installation aesthetic, but I think it has more to do with them painting themselves into a corner because of how high they want the level of graphical fidelity to be more than anything.

Part of the reason you're not seeing flourishing grasslands all over the battlefield has to do with the level of detail players have come to expect: in Combat Evolved and 2, there was a way lower bar being set graphically speaking and that actually came with a few advantages. For one, grassy textures could just be "painted on" to just about any type of landscape with very little modeling specifically accounting for things like foliage necessary. However, 343's been shooting for environments that aren't quite realistic, but still shoot for playspaces conducive to the illusion of livelihood - that they're organic, natural. The more lush you make environments, the more blades of grass you have to render, more shrubbery, more trees, more leaves, and so on. It's a lot easier to make rocks look natural because they have texturing and modeling options that come at a much lower technical ceiling than realistic foliage. Flora, being alive, possesses a bunch of unique tics once you start moving past the perennial - swaying in the wind, reacting to neighboring plants, elaborate root networks, etc. Geology, on the other hand, is usually more predictable and it's not a huge strain on suspension of disbelief to think that a box canyon or a winding mountainous path (like in Reclaimer) would remain fairly static.

It's also worth noting that, from a visual acuity standpoint, excess amounts of foliage have the potential to be detrimental to visual identity in multiplayer spaces - most of the weapons in the original Blood Gulch that were out in the open were proverbially pockmarked with bigger boulders jutting out of the ground, providing not only cover, but a pretty noticeable tell that "hey, something's over here for you to come find." While on the flip side, if large amounts of the battlefield are covered in patches of tall grass, they might actually obscure weapons on the ground, albeit the HUD markers would probably help alleviate that.

Now, don't get me wrong, I want to see the return of lush environments where there's an actual juxtaposition of earth and flora, but there really aren't a ton of examples of it after Halo 2. Even in Halo 3, areas like The Ark were mostly desert and husks of dead trees, or dilapidated fallout shelter-looking areas like Ghost Town. That'll probably be one of the finer points covered next gen, where a push in the hardware does provide developers with a few more options into rendering more alive-feeling playspaces. As-is, though, the shoot for maximalism in the environments 343's developed means that they can only really convey so many visual styles before they become conceptually pigeonholed. Areas conveying fertility, livelihood, agricultural presence, etc. aren't really a possibility on a large scale unless they go out of their way to dial down the level of detail to account for some of the smaller things.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

A part of me hopes Frankie says this out loud when replying to certain posts.

lol

He probably does. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. He's working hard on this game, planning out content he thinks is cool, thinking everything's going well. Signs on NeoGAF and mothafuckas are using MSPaint color contrast on map screenshots "Frankie pls fix also hit indicators make me cry ;_;"

Dude is like, "Why do I even hang out with these niggas man"

 

[dwells]

Dude is like, "Why do I even hang out with these niggas man"

I'd very much like to see Frankie actually say this.

 

[Karl2177]

Wahrer: http://youtu.be/z1MniGPbBEM?t=1m52s

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

I'd very much like to see Frankie actually say this.

In that Scottish accent.

 

[Sephzilla]

He probably does. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. He's working hard on this game, planning out content he thinks is cool, thinking everything's going well. Signs on NeoGAF and mothafuckas are using MSPaint color contrast on map screenshots "Frankie pls fix also hit indicators make me cry ;_;"

Dude is like, "Why do I even hang out with these niggas man"

Yeah, I can imagine it's frustrating some times. People complaining about smaller things I can definitely see getting annoying. But I think the complaints about the color pallets on most of these maps is a pretty legit big thing though.

 

[User 73706]

Wahrer: http://youtu.be/z1MniGPbBEM?t=1m52s

Again, I'm not trying to combat the notion that it's impossible to make foliage work in Halo environments because, time and time again, it has. My main point, though, was that 343's trying to hit such a high benchmark with graphics compared to Halo 3 or even Halo Reach that they're going to have to cut corners. I don't necessarily think that's the right decision, but unless they tone it down on shooting for hyper-realistic environments it's going to be a while before console hardware catches up and lets them make use of shrubs, bushes and whatnot.

 

[dwells]

In that Scottish accent.

"Scottish but has been in the US for a while and now almost sounds like it has a hint of Vancouver in it" accent.

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

"Scottish but has been in the US for a while and now almost sounds like it has a hint of Vancouver in it" accent.

Never thought about how Vancouver he actually sounded.

 

[ArchedThunder]

From a technical perspective I can kinda see where 343/CA are coming from with emphasizing the rocks / human encampment in a forerunner installation aesthetic, but I think it has more to do with them painting themselves into a corner because of how high they want the level of graphical fidelity to be more than anything.

Part of the reason you're not seeing flourishing grasslands all over the battlefield has to do with the level of detail players have come to expect: in Combat Evolved and 2, there was a way lower bar being set graphically speaking and that actually came with a few advantages. For one, grassy textures could just be "painted on" to just about any type of landscape with very little modeling specifically accounting for things like foliage necessary. However, 343's been shooting for environments that aren't quite realistic, but still shoot for playspaces conducive to the illusion of livelihood - that they're organic, natural. The more lush you make environments, the more blades of grass you have to render, more shrubbery, more trees, more leaves, and so on. It's a lot easier to make rocks look natural because they have texturing and modeling options that come at a much lower technical ceiling than realistic foliage. Flora, being alive, possesses a bunch of unique tics once you start moving past the perennial - swaying in the wind, reacting to neighboring plants, elaborate root networks, etc. Geology, on the other hand, is usually more predictable and it's not a huge strain on suspension of disbelief to think that a box canyon or a winding mountainous path (like in Reclaimer) would remain fairly static.

It's also worth noting that, from a visual acuity standpoint, excess amounts of foliage have the potential to be detrimental to visual identity in multiplayer spaces - most of the weapons in the original Blood Gulch that were out in the open were proverbially pockmarked with bigger boulders jutting out of the ground, providing not only cover, but a pretty noticeable tell that "hey, something's over here for you to come find." While on the flip side, if large amounts of the battlefield are covered in patches of tall grass, they might actually obscure weapons on the ground, albeit the HUD markers would probably help alleviate that.

Now, don't get me wrong, I want to see the return of lush environments where there's an actual juxtaposition of earth and flora, but there really aren't a ton of examples of it after Halo 2. Even in Halo 3, areas like The Ark were mostly desert and husks of dead trees, or dilapidated fallout shelter-looking areas like Ghost Town. That'll probably be one of the finer points covered next gen, where a push in the hardware does provide developers with a few more options into rendering more alive-feeling playspaces. As-is, though, the shoot for maximalism in the environments 343's developed means that they can only really convey so many visual styles before they become conceptually pigeonholed. Areas conveying fertility, livelihood, agricultural presence, etc. aren't really a possibility on a large scale unless they go out of their way to dial down the level of detail to account for some of the smaller things.

They could have at least given us grass like Exile(with a better ground texture).

I was hoping for grass more like Tempest though, still the best grass in the franchise.

 

[squidhands]

Was there seriously an argument about callout length?

at least it wasn't about girth.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Yeah, I can imagine it's frustrating some times. People complaining about smaller things I can definitely see getting annoying. But I think the complaints about the color pallets on most of these maps is a pretty legit big thing though.

Yeah I agree and a part of me thinks the angle of the one and only screenshot of Bloodline doesn't do it justice. From the angle provided it looks kind of strange, the sense of depth isn't really there, and you don't even see the skybox much.

However, when it comes to previous maps in the series I think Halo 2's Relic is a good example of a somewhat dull map pallete but it's crystal clear. I think that's the key with these maps is clarity and we all seem to be in agreement that there is a certain haziness/blurriness in a lot of map design these days (not just 343).

Relic (notice clarity across the map distance):

Bloodline (notice the haziness across the map distance):

If they would just at least get rid of that smog, I think it will not only look better but play better. But, we should wait until the walkthrough on IGN before we pass a complete judgement.

 

[Tawpgun]

They're trying too hard to get that atmospheric density thing down. But that stuff should be reserved for stuff really further away. Not Valhalla base to Valhalla base.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yeah I agree and a part of me thinks the angle of the one and only screenshot of Bloodline doesn't do it justice. From the angle provided it looks kind of strange, the sense of depth isn't really there, and you don't even see the skybox much.

However, when it comes to previous maps in the series I think Halo 2's Relic is a good example of a somewhat dull map pallete but it's crystal clear. I think that's the key with these maps is clarity and we all seem to be in agreement that there is a certain haziness/blurriness in a lot of map design these days (not just 343).

Relic (notice clarity across the map distance):
http://www.imaginationispower.com/images/h2_mp_relic.jpg

Bloodline (notice the haziness across the map distance):
http://teambeyond.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Halo-2-Anniversary-Bloodline-Coagulation.jpg

If they would just at least get rid of that smog, I think it will not only look better but play better. But, we should wait until the walkthrough on IGN before we pass a complete judgement.

Kind of a tangent, but man, I also really miss Relic.

Halo 2 really had the GOAT maps

 

[ArchedThunder]

If they wanted to make Coag a desert or arid they could have at least made it aesthetically pleasing, it isn't like those haven't appeared in Halo before.

Instead we just got mud...

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Kind of a tangent, but man, I also really miss Relic.

Halo 2 really had the GOAT maps

I hear ya..I miss super bouncing to the top of the tower with sniper or gaining the lead and hiding in the water where you are supposed to die.

 

[Booties]

Halo was never a gritty realistic game. It had grunting dinosaur aliens and a green man-machine shooting guns made out of legos that sound like fisher price toys. And we loved it.

Stop trying to be CoD/BF please, TIA.

 

[Sephzilla]

I hear ya..I miss super bouncing to the top of the tower with sniper or gaining the lead and hiding in the water where you are supposed to die.

[internal rage intensifies]

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Halo was never a gritty realistic game. It had grunting dinosaur aliens and a green man-machine shooting guns made out of legos that sound like fisher price toys. And we loved it.

Stop trying to be CoD/BF please, TIA.

Passive aggressive back handed remark that ended up being a compliment.

Wut.

 

[Vico]

If they wanted to make Coag a desert or arid they could have at least made it aesthetically pleasing, it isn't like those haven't appeared in Halo before.


Instead we just got mud...

I wouldn't call Reach's desert/arid aeras "aesthetically pleasing", though. Complete opposite, actually.

 

[Sephzilla]

Halo was never a gritty realistic game. It had grunting dinosaur aliens and a green man-machine shooting guns made out of legos that sound like fisher price toys. And we loved it.

Stop trying to be CoD/BF please, TIA.

I think the art style in the earlier games reflected this perfectly. Halo 1 and Halo 2 I think both visually looked and generally felt a bit more cartoony in comparison to the later games. It had a somewhat unique style to it that allowed it to be its own goofy thing while still being able to be taken somewhat seriously.

 

[Madness]

He probably does. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes. He's working hard on this game, planning out content he thinks is cool, thinking everything's going well. Signs on NeoGAF and mothafuckas are using MSPaint color contrast on map screenshots "Frankie pls fix also hit indicators make me cry ;_;"

Dude is like, "Why do I even hang out with these niggas man"

"Why can't we see CE Screenshots yet? We're less than a month from launch"

Two screenshots of CE running on Xbox One in latest bulletin are shown.

"WTF is this? CE looks worse on Xbox One than it did on OG Xbox, why use the PC port".

Though I'd really like to know why these tint filters or lighting are being applied. I mean so many of us agree that the changed versions do look a bit better, so is there something technically which makes them use this haze, lighting, tint? I'm seeing it in a lot of games these days, not just Halo.

 

[Sordid]

Everything they do seems to have a coloured tint to it...

does any one else think this is far too blue? Definitely not a fan of the 343 'look'

These look far better imo:

Edit: A more direct comparison

 

[Madness]

Everything they do seems to have a coloured tint to it...

does any one else think this is far too blue? Definitely not a fan of the 343 'look'

These look far better imo:

Edit: A more direct comparison

Here is shatter from the Crimson map pack for Halo 4. This time it's quite green/yellow.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Devs like dem post-processing. Apparently simulated cataracts are the cool trendy artistic thing nowadays...

Example: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive had post processing/filters before the community cried so hard that Valve finally fixed it.

Btw, the new Halo 5 Midship looks stellar except the darn fog. Apparently there is pollution leaking into the covenant interiors. lol

 

[-Ryn]

Halo was never a gritty realistic game. It had grunting dinosaur aliens and a green man-machine shooting guns made out of legos that sound like fisher price toys. And we loved it.

Stop trying to be CoD/BF please, TIA.

Colors aren't manly though

Here is shatter from the Crimson map pack for Halo 4. This time it's quite green/yellow.

The background looks like wallpaper... glad the anniversary maps look better.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Btw, the new Halo 5 Midship looks stellar except the darn fog. Apparently there is pollution leaking into the covenant interiors. lol

Gunsmoke and plasma burns? Seriously though, the fog of war may not be as bad in actual gameplay as in the screenshots. No fog or dof would make the map look sterile in screenshots, but it may be toned down for actual gameplay. At least, I hadn't noticed it in gameplay vids so far.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

does any one else think this is far too blue? Definitely not a fan of the 343 'look'

Is this better? lol It looks more traditional this way. *Shrug* I like the sexy blue look, but it needs less haze/fog as we pointed out before.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I wouldn't call Reach's desert/arid aeras "aesthetically pleasing", though. Complete opposite, actually.

I think they are beautiful.

 

[Sephzilla]

Is this better? lol It looks more traditional this way. *Shrug* I like the sexy blue look, but it needs less haze/fog as we pointed out before.

much better imo. tons of details stick out more in the slightly more purple version.

covie stuff is purple, not blue