User 73706
Banned
Fun fact: it takes the same amount of time to say "overgrown temple" as "one shot on my X."
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HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.
- Thread starter User 73706
- Start date
ArchedThunder
Banned
Do you really have to dismiss every single criticism? It feels like every other post of yours that I read is you telling people that their complaints are dumb.
The Librarian
Banned
What about five syllables prevents you from calling something out quickly?
I understand criticizing map callouts in a game like the way Steely put it, but when you make a post about how many syllables it has and immediately label it inadequate, I think that's a dumb way to go about making your point.
GringoSuave89
Banned
The way I see it, most people are going to callout "temple" anyway.
Lol sums up this argument
The Librarian
Banned
Preeeeetty much.
... the fact that it's five syllables?
"red base"
vs
"red base on the map"
"light room"
vs
"bright golden sword spawn"
etc
It's a mouthful and is beyond the "reflex" level of words you can quickly get out. It takes up too much vocal bandwidth.
Get the hell out of here with your logic.
How many syllables something consists of has an approximate direct relationship with how much time and effort it requires to enunciate.
Because it's longer than necessary, especially for high level play. What's the point of even cluttering up the screen with Overgrown Temple there if people will find its easier to say Blue Nades, Top Blue, Top Snipe, etc.
The guy had a valid complaint, even if it's trivial or miniscule but you just have to come and trash it because it doesn't affect you much or you don't care yourself. It's like playing devil's advocate for the hell of it.
The Librarian
Banned
One shot my X is just one type of call out.
Keep moving the goalposts. You originally said "so, that's a dumb thing to complain about", "oh noes, 5 syllables the pro scene will collapse", to "I don't understand why a 5 syllable callout is bad" to "oh, you can just use one shot on my x", but you still don't seem to grasp that for callouts, the shorter and easier to say, the better. That's it, and that was his point.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
People will continue to say blue flag or our base etc. It's not optimized for true callouts. But those are work in progress as well. As for indicators and hit markers they have yet to comment about it. Not many people I have talked to think it's a good idea.
The Librarian
Banned
I don't think you're following. Why is taking the time to say five syllables with "one shot on my X" okay but not "Overgrown Temple"?
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
I'm going to throw my two cents in the mix here, in competitive play, communication is paramount for coordinating a team effort. Almost more so than actually being good at the game.
Map callouts are designed to relay information as efficiently and as fast as possible. They are usually broken down by a defining feature of the room (aka where reds spawn makes it a red room, or sword spawn makes it sword room, or even just sword), and the structure it is (tunnels, rooms, plats, etc)
Having the callouts in game as long as it is, is meant to give the map depth, as just naming them "yellow lift" instead of "amber shrine" can feel a bit cheap.
What we have now is a good start and helps the community able to form the callouts.
My solution?
Tie callouts to trait zones, being able to put down a trait zone and edit the name in the properties would make competitive play a lot more accessible, as well as more organized.
Map callouts are designed to relay information as efficiently and as fast as possible. They are usually broken down by a defining feature of the room (aka where reds spawn makes it a red room, or sword spawn makes it sword room, or even just sword), and the structure it is (tunnels, rooms, plats, etc)
Having the callouts in game as long as it is, is meant to give the map depth, as just naming them "yellow lift" instead of "amber shrine" can feel a bit cheap.
What we have now is a good start and helps the community able to form the callouts.
My solution?
Tie callouts to trait zones, being able to put down a trait zone and edit the name in the properties would make competitive play a lot more accessible, as well as more organized.
Overgrown temple is a location. One shot my X provides location and information about the situation and is only applicable after you've died obviously. Calling "2 weak overgrown temple" is a mouthful compared to "2 weak red"
Devolution
Member
Why would you only call out when you're dead Dax?
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Because that's 90% of her playtime in Halo.
50% when they introduced insta-respawn
I kid I kid.
It's not hard to see why shorter terms are preferable for Call Outs. It's more efficient in a game where seconds literally change the flow and outcome of a match.
People won't even use 343's callouts to be honest, if they're anything like Reach, they're be more efficient community callouts to use.
"HILL" in Spire when there are multiple hills.
I think you're the one who still hasn't grasped the point of the argument here. One shot on my X is one specific callout you use when you die and the other guy is near death. In a match, another player might be able to see your X before it disappears and kill your attacker. That has no bearing on a specific location having more syllables than is necessary.
So what if you are not dead, what if you dropped a weapon, is it is easier to say, 3 at Snipe Spawn, or 3 at the Overgrown Temple when in a match? Or rockets at top mid, rockets at Overgrown Temple etc.
I don't even know what it is you're arguing against since the original point is still valid that less syllable or short callouts are much better. Even Fire explained it perfectly.
The Librarian
Banned
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
Remember to have fun
Everyone is good.
Kill the other team to gain points
Try to have a mic on Xbox one.
Everyone is good.
Kill the other team to gain points
Try to have a mic on Xbox one.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Your first mistake is actually trying to use callouts on Spire
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
My first mistake was actually playing Spire.
Still better than Boneyard though. Eww Boneyard.
You must be new to HaloGAF.
Devolution
Member
Those were prominent areas from the campaign and for Invasion, don't think they realized how bad they were for MP modes.
One thing I liked is that when I heard about them, I was curious to see extreme verticality in the maps. I've always felt maps and weapons are the way to keep Halo multi-player fresh or fun, along with gametypes. But Spire and Boneyard were unnecessarily large, and weren't really fun to play.
They were supposed to be editable in Reach, the feature just didn't make the final version
NobleGundam
Banned
You missed Gemini & Backwash! Gtfo!
Deputy Moonman
Member
Sorry only one person can claim that title. Get it right!
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Fuck it this is the page, it's on. ON I TELL YOU
joking mate.
As for callouts, relax and just feel all warm and fuzzy knowing pros and regular teams have their own callouts. Hey default competitive players do that too you know. At the end of the day the developer callouts are for specificity and uniformity, nothing more and nothing less. To take just one call out is stupid. Some go do a Karl excel of all the maps and callouts then show us the data for how many syllables on average a callout is. Then we'll talk, until then remain calm kids.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
You'll know when I go full meta.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Wonder if there is any chance at 343 adding an additional H2A multiplayer map here and there down the road? Not likely, and of course 343 will be super busy working on Halo 5, but it would be a cool little surprise.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I guess it probably depends on if Halo 5's multiplayer is being done completely in house this time or if Certain Affinity is working on it again.
Will be quite pleased if they continue to involve Certain Affinity.
And I am almost....certain...that they will.
Eh, I'd hope they start to move a lot of development in house as they grow with the series now. Not to say they can't outsource or continue their partnership, but hiring guys who work intimately with the rest of the team day in and day out at 434 Kirkland.
I wonder if anyone ever said what maps were 343 made in Halo 4 and what maps were CA, or whether they all were.
People behind the original multiplayer experience work at Certain Affinity now. If they were to stop that connection they would lose that experience and talent.
I'm no manager or owner, but if I wanted to go back to the roots and create a solid experience, I'd work with the people that created it.
Der Flatulator
Member
Halo MCC |OT| So fades the colour of our great maps.
Here's the article:
https://halo.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=29601
Here's the article:
https://halo.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=29601
Eh, people behind the original CE experience have also given us Reach. It's not necessarily a requirement to have the original guys working there, even as good as they are/were. I love the Bungie teams, especially for CE/2/3 and even Reach. But it was more about the mechanics behind Halo that made it fun, as opposed to the people.
The switch from the studio means we'll never have that original group of guys working again. But a lot of those same guys are not as Bungie anymore either. And 343 needs to stand on its own feet eventually no? Learn what made CE, 2 and 3 maps so fun, what made the games fun, and try your best at your own versions.
Halo 4 maps were not the best, and these are basically just remakes of past maps, so it's not necessarily a straight positive in my book. Map design is tough but I remember Chris Carney gave a good article about how he approaches map design (even if he used Cage in his article).
Edit: All comes down to time and money though. Is it easier to just outsource to CA and hopefully work with them to make great maps, or to do it alone, but possibly struggle with a lot of the maps being fun or competitive.
Deputy Moonman
Member
I'll go ahead and admit that I liked Halo 4's maps a LOT better than Reach's maps. 4 just suffered from too many other issues, but the maps themselves (most of them 
) weren't that bad.
I really only enjoyed Countdown and Reflection in Reach, and honestly didn't mind Swordbase for regular slayer games (objective not so much). I felt boardwalk was about as bland and boring to play on as any halo map before it, and powerhouse was far too disjointed. It played like a smaller map, but was too large and disjointed to traverse. Reach was literally a few good maps and then all forge.
) weren't that bad.I really only enjoyed Countdown and Reflection in Reach, and honestly didn't mind Swordbase for regular slayer games (objective not so much). I felt boardwalk was about as bland and boring to play on as any halo map before it, and powerhouse was far too disjointed. It played like a smaller map, but was too large and disjointed to traverse. Reach was literally a few good maps and then all forge.
As long as they are free I would be fine. Another generation of 15 for 3 maps would be bonkers
Gabotron ES
Member
Why is Speedy a mormon?
Bornstellar
Member
Never go full meta.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
If I was calling to you where the previous occupant of a Mongoose dies, and where you can pick up said Mongoose, would you rather hear "overgrown temple" or "blue spawn".