It's an intresting concept but I'm not sure if it would translate well if at all to halo.I could be great to start in a main base spawn like battlefield where the enemy cant reach you and viceversa.
It's an intresting concept but I'm not sure if it would translate well if at all to halo.I could be great to start in a main base spawn like battlefield where the enemy cant reach you and viceversa.
Fighting games are a completely different beast. They are 1v1 matches that are based off of rounds and they also tend to have in depth systems for countering those situations that are actually taught to the player in the game. Halo doesn't have this. At least not in a way most people are aware of so it could certainly learn from the genre.Again, what are we supposed to do? NOT shoot the bad guys as efficiently as possible? C'mon.
This type of thinking is akin to telling a fighting game player to not punish the opponent for getting backed into a wall. "You shouldn't pummel and combo the shit out of him for that, you should let him get away and turn your back to him so that he has more of a chance." C'mon.
Got a chuckle out of me
Spawn camping: not even once
Really? I loved Highlands. Though I'm a sucker for big beautiful maps. Noble was great though from what I remember.I prefere noble's maps to that of defiant didn't really like highlands.
My replies in bold
I'm not trying to say these systems are ruining Halo. I get that spawns and timing are a big part of the competitive community (which I love playing with and think are a core part of Halo). It just needs to be reworked. Something needs to be done to help new players and even long time fans who may not understand the system so they can "get good".
This could be done by creating some kind of tutorial from the pros or adding hints in the game.
The online problem could certainly be helped by adding a system that doesn't match up a team of randoms with full parties. I know the idea has been discussed here before. Even just having a ranked vs social system could help if implemented right.
Hope this all made some kind of sense.
It's an advantage specific to knowledge of spawns and map awareness, often earned by fighting over a power weapon in the first place. Other than distance, what makes that acceptable whereas a kill resulting from that same knowledge and pushing a defensible position not acceptable?My point was that if there's one dude with a sniper who nails you from across the map when you spawn, that's an extenuating circumstance and an advantage specific to a single (possibly 2) weapon(s). Again, it's been a while since I last played The Pit, but I'd say behind the enemy team. Yes, it's an advantage, and yes, it takes a little bit away from the winning team, but if they're really that dominant it shouldn't matter so much. Again, though, keep it sane; don't allow people to spawn on top of the objective, but also don't place them smack dab in the enemy killbox.
Keep in mind that I'm arguing from a social playlist perspective, which is really all I play. Competitive play is another kettle of fish.
My point was that if there's one dude with a sniper who nails you from across the map when you spawn, that's an extenuating circumstance and an advantage specific to a single (possibly 2) weapon(s). Again, it's been a while since I last played The Pit, but I'd say behind the enemy team. Yes, it's an advantage, and yes, it takes a little bit away from the winning team, but if they're really that dominant it shouldn't matter so much. Again, though, keep it sane; don't allow people to spawn on top of the objective, but also don't place them smack dab in the enemy killbox.
Keep in mind that I'm arguing from a social playlist perspective, which is really all I play. Competitive play is another kettle of fish.
Amazing.
It's an intresting concept but I'm not sure if it would translate well if at all to halo.
Amazing.
So lengthening a game for the sake of making it longer? You said it yourself. Chances are that dominant team is just going to shit on the other team, it's just going to take up more of everyone's time. You're getting wrecked either way. Rather it was over and done with myself instead of dragged out.
OK, I suppose we should design the game around people who don't give a shit about learning multiplayer, getting better, playing with their 8 year old cousin on splitscreen, or "trying". Dude, there is no other option in Halo 4 (and arguably Reach) other than "social" playlists. Are these people that have all this gameplay knowledge supposed to just not try to win like they have for over a decade because they have no other playlist? That's a poor excuse for a defense of a position.
Casual players are the reason Halo has become the abortion it is now.I guess I can understand that. Personally, I always prefer feeling like I've got a fighting chance (even though it generally isn't the case), but I can see just wanting a match to be over. They really ought to implement some sort of forfeit vote in that case, though; seems like it'd be a better workaround.
Man, you are reading way too much into this. I'm not saying that the entire game has to cater to casual players, since that'd be ridiculous. Just that one aspect of any game I personally detest is the "death on spawn," so I'm arguing against its inclusion. That's all.
I'm also going to switch stance slightly and agree with Orochinagis; having a "safe spawn" zone would alleviate a lot of the frustration, IMO. Plus, it does seem to be hinted at by the H5 trailer.
You keep calling it an unfair advantage. It's not. It's only unfair when people aren't even matches. Entire strategies back in the "golden days" of competitive play were designed to get out of spawn traps and retake map control. Two well-matched teams will often take turns holding control points on the map to influence spawns to their advantage.
What I don't understand about your logic is you think positioning and knowledge should be rewarded, but you think it's unfair when that reward exists. You can't have it both ways. "Spend a match fighting to get to cover"? This is the easiest shit to get out of in later Halos. Just sprint out of your base. I've heard people complain about this on something like Simplex CTF. Seriously? Even if the other team has the entire midsection controlled, you just have to make a coordinated push / sprint on one side to, even if only temporarily, change the spawn pattern.
The point is, knowing how to set up a good offensive spawn trap or position means that if it happens to you, you should know how to get out of it. With the exception of Octagon 1v1 customs, there isn't one where that's impossible. In a fair match, both sides know the risk and reward, and to be perfectly honest, in 1v1s, there is a good amount of luck involved and sometimes you just get screwed over. Not to mention the match in question was only a few minutes whereas a real match would be longer and allow for for potential comebacks.
While this system does lead to some grief-ing in matchmaking, what is usually leads to in competitive play is that the better team almost always wins, which is what should happen. If your team isn't as good and can't break the spawn trap or mix up the spawn cycles, then tough. You lose. You, in almost every case, were *not* the better team.
Not the sort of big team map I enjoy breakpoint or tempest was more my thing.Really? I loved Highlands. Though I'm a sucker for big beautiful maps. Noble was great though from what I remember.
The bone yard ones are a double edged blade on the one hand you are safe in there but the way it was you didn't last long one you left it.it could need a map redesign to not be simple square or a rectangle but yes I agree with you. Actually it was added in Invasion beta for the attack team last phase in boneyard.
I can get on 4.Anyone wanna play something?
Amazing.
I guess I can understand that. Personally, I always prefer feeling like I've got a fighting chance (even though it generally isn't the case), but I can see just wanting a match to be over. They really ought to implement some sort of forfeit vote in that case, though; seems like it'd be a better workaround.
Man, you are reading way too much into this. I'm not saying that the entire game has to cater to casual players, since that'd be ridiculous. Just that one aspect of any game I personally detest is the "death on spawn," so I'm arguing against its inclusion. That's all.
I'm also going to switch stance slightly and agree with Orochinagis; having a "safe spawn" zone would alleviate a lot of the frustration, IMO. Plus, it does seem to be hinted at by the H5 trailer.
Man, you are reading way too much into this. I'm not saying that the entire game has to cater to casual players, since that'd be ridiculous. Just that one aspect of any game I personally detest is the "death on spawn," so I'm arguing against its inclusion. That's all.
I'm also going to switch stance slightly and agree with Orochinagis; having a "safe spawn" zone would alleviate a lot of the frustration, IMO. Plus, it does seem to be hinted at by the H5 trailer.
You detailed several reasons why I like fighting over the ridge in Halo 4's Ravine and any other map where there are advantageous positions you need to control.
Some of y'all need to play some Flag Slayer on Zealot. Experience of a lifetime.
None taken man. A GOOD Ranking system would definitely help with the issue no doubt.The way I read it, almost your entire argument could be negated with some kind of well-designed ranking system. I WONDER IF WE'VE EVER HAD THAT BEFORE? It's not the good players' fault if the game's Trueskill is a fucking joke. We shouldn't change an integral part of a game they enjoy and have played and, arguably, put more time and effort into than the "average" player for over a decade just so people feel better or to accommodate an everyone-wins attitude to gaming.
Again, games should not be designed to accommodate completely mis-matched opponents. Your complaints or concerns with gameplay and game design should also not be using those matches for reference to decide gameplay changes.
You say, in competitive play, it should be there and makes sense, but that the average player might not know about it, so we should get rid of it or put it in some tutorial or something. No offense, but the last thing games need nowadays is more hand-holding.
I love Bungie
Amazing.
Eh...Casual players are the reason Halo has become the abortion it is now.
I can get on 4.
Amazing.
Anybody got a spare beta key or know where to get one?
I'd like to try it and don't want to have to pre-order just to do so.
Not sure if I'll like it or not.
But in Halo, decision making, map knowledge, and weapon/position control is arguably more important than shooting ability. Something as "simple" as changing the spawn system to make an easier time for social players has huge repercussions, H4 spawns being a great example. In an effort to lower the ability of the better team to control spawns, you get really dumb stuff like Skyline CTF, a gametype/map combo that would work really well in any other Halo, but H4 it's just a crap-shoot.
A "safe zone" might work, but what happens when a better team just sits outside the safe areas and waits for you to enter the battle area? Halo maps, especially 4v4, aren't many square miles large like something like Battlefield. All this would do is delay the inevitable. Either you die now and try to fight back a little bit, or you do the same thing, just 15 seconds later. I suppose you could just stay in your safe zone if you keep getting killed every time you poke out or try to fight back, but then why are you even in the game?
Anybody got a spare beta key or know where to get one?
I'd like to try it and don't want to have to pre-order just to do so.
Not sure if I'll like it or not.
This shouldn't be some secret that players need to search and learn. That's stupid. Just because players from the early days had to do without some form of teaching doesn't mean that new players should be required to do the same. Share the knowledge and let players learn so there can truly be an equal playing field with a larger and more well versed community.
Doesn't look like it.
EDIT: Yes
Some of y'all need to play some Flag Slayer on Zealot. Experience of a lifetime.
I guess I can understand that. Personally, I always prefer feeling like I've got a fighting chance (even though it generally isn't the case), but I can see just wanting a match to be over. They really ought to implement some sort of forfeit vote in that case, though; seems like it'd be a better workaround.
Man, you are reading way too much into this. I'm not saying that the entire game has to cater to casual players, since that'd be ridiculous. Just that one aspect of any game I personally detest is the "death on spawn," so I'm arguing against its inclusion. That's all.
I'm also going to switch stance slightly and agree with Orochinagis; having a "safe spawn" zone would alleviate a lot of the frustration, IMO. Plus, it does seem to be hinted at by the H5 trailer.
More of this "actual" gameplay depth in my opinion is a good thing. It is ok for a particular gametype's deeper mechanics to not be immediately obvious when playing the first few games (or even many dozens). These are the types of systems that are only gleaned through either playing many games and paying close attention to things like the clock, and spawn locations, or by watching other, better players who have effectively adjusted their play based on what they've learned through experience.
This is unsettling, and according to the 5th amendment of the Declaration of Independence, I have the right to be offended. I also don't know what you are getting at with the .gif, so you'll be hearing from my attorney, Barry Zuckerkorn.
This is unsettling, and according to the 5th amendment of the Declaration of Independence, I have the right to be offended. I also don't know what you are getting at with the .gif, so you'll be hearing from my attorney, Barry Zuckerkorn.
Sounds like you need to lob a Bob Loblaw Law Bomb. Though it may be a bit of a low blow.
Too late. He already blue himself.
Too late. He already blue himself.
Well... Yes. But I'm afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run if you will, so I'm afraid I have something of a mess on my hands.
So first game back after 8 months and I get a killtacular, then proceed to go 39 and 8.
I actually missed Halo.
If 343 can integrate it into the game without it being a nuisance then I don't see why not. Make it quick, simple, and enjoyable to learn from. If bots were introduced in future Halo games that could even be a way to utilize it.But how far should that be taken? How much do we need to explicitly spell out? Most of my map and spawn knowledge I get from playing the damn game and thinking about the shit that happens when I play. I didn't have some tutorial or thing that said "hey! here's a jump you can do to get to some position faster" or "you may notice your enemy is likely to spawn here so keep an eye out".
Should we have things in the MCC that tells players that are new to H1/H2/H3 every little strategic jump or sneaky path as well? They are just as important as spawn knowledge in those games.
I agree that it shouldn't be spelled out for players most definitely and it was ridiculous how far Halo 4 went with trying to get information to players. "YOU'RE HOLDING THE FLAG", yeah no shit thanks for the heads up. However things such as the small waypoints that we saw on the Ascension are what I think of as a good example of subtle hints that aren't distracting or in the way.The Green Wall on spawns
Good games broSo first game back after 8 months and I get a killtacular, then proceed to go 39 and 8.
I actually missed Halo.
Good games bro
I know the number for a really good Analrapist is you think that might help your situation.
everyone gets three marketplace codes with one beta code, so I'm sure people will have extras.
If not you could just order on Amazon, and then cancel the pre-order. You don't have to put any money down with them.
Apparently, each preoder gets you 3 codes; I'll PM you one of mine when I get them, though I am on the X1.