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[User 73706]

My xbox is plugged in guys!

Progress!

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Oh crap! My team lost but I got 3 flag runs almost in a row. I rarely even get one. #noobexcite

 

[Nebula]

Progress!

Took me 2 weeks to do it from when I said I would plug it in.

 

[Akai__]

We've had some unfortunate match ups! First game you had bad teammates, I lagged out in the pregame lobby of that Narrows game and my boy went heavy neg in the pit game. Didn't realise you were the erstwhile Croatia.

Hope you had fun in those matches, because I did. And yeah, changed my username on here, but never my Gamertag. The Gamertag I want is taken, but hasn't been active for 5 years, which sucks. Don't know, why they don't reset those Gamertags...

The fact is that Most of That community thinks light shines out of every orifice and that they are the only community that 343 should listen to. The Posters, The mods, all of them are super biased. leading to dissenting opinions being banned from their community, and creating an atmosphere of "if you dont agree with 343, you dont belong there"

Every official game forum is like that, but that's not what I meant.

People calling others a "Waypoint kid"...

What's that even supposed to mean? Just because you were part of a community, where people couldn't have a normal discussion, without others going into full fanboy mode

Spoiler

(Have you played the game? No? Stop having concerns then!)

, it doesn't mean that every poster on there is or was shit. I recognize a lot of names in this thread from Waypoint and from the Bungie forums and there are just a few, that would defend 343i (or Bungies) decisions at all cost, until they realized, that they might have been wrong. Doesn't make them a "Waypoint-kid" or us a "HaloGAF-kid". Why even use the word "kid"?

TL;DR don't categorize people, just because they are from an other community.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Here

It's a site I made last year. It can be kinda wonky since it scrapes game data from the old bungie site...

Spoiler

but it works most of the time!

Thanks for sharing! I haven't got a lot of games played (350-450), but I'm surprised my stats are as steady as they are.

 

[Mr Croft]

So I played halo 3 for the first time two days ago... Man I my BR was dreadful. Hoping to get it back before MCC

 

[-Ryn]

My xbox is plugged in guys!

You up for some Halo tonight?

Oh crap! My team lost but I got 3 flag runs almost in a row. I rarely even get one. #noobexcite

A show of improvement. Nice!
What's your favorite game type?

 

[Rtas]

Hey guys quick question here, a friend gave me a digital download code for the Xbox one, but hes from germany and therefore its a german code. will this still work for me in Ireland?

Really really fuzzy on this

 

[Darkmakaimura]

You up for some Halo tonight?


A show of improvement. Nice!
What's your favorite game type?

I got lucky.

I'm boring. I like Big Team Slayer with my loadout. I also like the occasional CTF, Heavies, Flood and Oddball.

 

[789shadow]

You up for some Halo tonight?

I sure am.

 

[heckfu]

You guys hyped for TI4 next week!?

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

I just need to stop getting older, it's getting hard to stay up that late without absurd amounts of caffeine. The only thing I can play competently after 12:30 is Heavies.

Yeah, I got super tired only an hour after I got on.

Leaned back on my couch for the last game and closed my eyes for a second as the game was loading, then all of a sudden it's like 2-3 minutes into the game and I was terrible.

Well, more than normal at least. Decided to get off then.

 

[Fracas]

You guys hyped for TI4 next week!?

LCS 4 lyfe

Spoiler

I don't watch esports

 

[Orochinagis]

Hey guys quick question here, a friend gave me a digital download code for the Xbox one, but hes from germany and therefore its a german code. will this still work for me in Ireland?

Really really fuzzy on this

It had to work, as far as I remember there is no region issues in digital versions.

 

[-Ryn]

You guys hyped for TI4 next week!?

I don't know what that is but it sounds lame

I got lucky.

I'm boring. I like Big Team Slayer with my loadout. I also like the occasional CTF, Heavies, Flood and Oddball.

I'm certainly more of an objective dude myself but slayer is pretty fun. Don't sell yourself short though. That was a sign that you got the touch!

I sure am.

Cool. I'll hit you up when I get on.

Gamertag is Ninjarage93

 

[heckfu]

I don't know what that is but it sounds lame

Dota 2 International Tournament in Seattle.

Me, Trasher, Tashi, and EazyB with guest appearances by Yuhas and Domino Theory. GET HYPED.

 

[GringoSuave89]

I got lucky.

I'm boring. I like Big Team Slayer with my loadout. I also like the occasional CTF, Heavies, Flood and Oddball.

Flood is stupid fun. Gotta play it every so often.

 

[-Ryn]

Dota 2 International Tournament in Seattle.

Me, Trasher, Tashi, and EazyB with guest appearances by Yuhas and Domino Theory. GET HYPED.

Spoiler

Sounds sweet! Where do I watch?

 

[Orochinagis]

Dammit argentina why are you playing so defensive

 

[heckfu]

Spoiler

Sounds sweet! Where do I watch?

Twitch will undoubtedly have it on the front page from Friday-Monday, it pulled over 1 million concurrent last year I'm almost positive.

We have floor seats so MAYBE you'll see our ugly mugs.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

Writing RTX writeup right now, expect it by the end of the day, also will crosspost from TeamBeyond.

 

[Mr Croft]

Dammit argentina why are so playing so defensive

they have been playing like this most of cup right? Messi is closing in

 

[-Ryn]

Twitch will undoubtedly have it on the front page from Friday-Monday, it pulled over 1 million concurrent last year I'm almost positive.

We have floor seats so MAYBE you'll see our ugly mugs.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out.
Never really played Dota so this should be fun.

Writing RTX writeup right now, expect it by the end of the day, also will crosspost from TeamBeyond.

I look forward to it with much enthusiasm

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

Writing RTX writeup right now, expect it by the end of the day, also will crosspost from TeamBeyond.

Watermark and timestamp your text

 

[YourExWife]

Good games guys. Too bad we didn't get to get a shot at Lightning flag. Maybe next time.


1v1 isn't as much of an issue since the player needs to traverse a good bit of the map. There is also usually cover nearby for the respawning player.

One battle shouldn't dictate a match though. You already lose your own weapons that you had and your opponent has a few seconds to get some ammo and even have a head start to other more powerful weapons. You don't always die from an error in judgement either. If you don't know where your opponent is and they were to say toss a grenade followed by a quick shot to the head, the only thing you can learn from that is to make note of potential attacks from that area.

Spawn killing is much worse for team battles though. Going into a match against an entire coordinated team usually leads to spawn killing which sucks. An entire match of fighting just get to cover is not fun. Having 4-8 different people shooting you the moment you appear is not fun. It is tedious and turns many people off from the game. A player shouldn't have to quit the game and go find another one because they can't do anything against the storm of bullets that greets them at every spawn. It's especially bad in objective where it can be exploited. Many times teams do nothing but spawn kill the entire match and not even score the damn objective. This is a problem that could be partially remedied through a change in the way objective games play though.

Knowing spawns and times should be rewarded. It shouldn't however create an unfair advantage that severely limits the other teams ability to fight back.

To me that isn't "classic" Halo. That was a flawed system that needed to be changed. The one we have now isn't perfect either and certainly needs changing, but I think it was a step in the right direction.

You keep calling it an unfair advantage. It's not. It's only unfair when people aren't even matches. Entire strategies back in the "golden days" of competitive play were designed to get out of spawn traps and retake map control. Two well-matched teams will often take turns holding control points on the map to influence spawns to their advantage.

What I don't understand about your logic is you think positioning and knowledge should be rewarded, but you think it's unfair when that reward exists. You can't have it both ways. "Spend a match fighting to get to cover"? This is the easiest shit to get out of in later Halos. Just sprint out of your base. I've heard people complain about this on something like Simplex CTF. Seriously? Even if the other team has the entire midsection controlled, you just have to make a coordinated push / sprint on one side to, even if only temporarily, change the spawn pattern.

The point is, knowing how to set up a good offensive spawn trap or position means that if it happens to you, you should know how to get out of it. With the exception of Octagon 1v1 customs, there isn't one where that's impossible. In a fair match, both sides know the risk and reward, and to be perfectly honest, in 1v1s, there is a good amount of luck involved and sometimes you just get screwed over. Not to mention the match in question was only a few minutes whereas a real match would be longer and allow for for potential comebacks.

While this system does lead to some grief-ing in matchmaking, what is usually leads to in competitive play is that the better team almost always wins, which is what should happen. If your team isn't as good and can't break the spawn trap or mix up the spawn cycles, then tough. You lose. You, in almost every case, were *not* the better team.

 

[belushy]

When is the next Reach play date

 

[Poodlestrike]

Are you guys seriously arguing about whether or not spawn camping is okay?

It's not. It's never been okay.

 

[Mistel]

It sucks because the maps themselves are great for both games (especially Reach).

I prefere noble's maps to that of defiant didn't really like highlands.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Are you guys seriously arguing about whether or not spawn camping is okay?

It's not. It's never been okay.

Spoiler

Spawn camping: not even once

 

[Prinz Eugn]

I just payed $330 for a Kinectless Xbone plus headset adapter. Hopefully that space marine cyborg game is pretty good. I hear you get to kill aliens.

--------------

Spawn camping can be rough in matchmaking, but it's basically the fault of the match system for putting two completely disparate teams together and not having some sort of forfeit option for the dongees. I mean, what are you going to do, tell good players to stop playing so well?

 

[GringoSuave89]

I just payed $330 for a Kinectless Xbone plus headset adapter. Hopefully that space marine cyborg game is pretty good. I hear you get to kill aliens.

--------------

Spawn camping can be rough in matchmaking, but it's basically the fault of the match system for putting two completely disparate teams together and not having some sort of forfeit option for the dongees. I mean, what are you going to do, tell good players to stop playing so well?

I don't know how I feel about a mercy rule. I have seen some crazy ass comebacks, but they are so rare they hardly factor into it.

Where did you purchase your Xbox One? I still need to get on that.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I just payed $330 for a Kinectless Xbone plus headset adapter. Hopefully that space marine cyborg game is pretty good. I hear you get to kill aliens.

--------------

Spawn camping can be rough in matchmaking, but it's basically the fault of the match system for putting two completely disparate teams together and not having some sort of forfeit option for the dongees. I mean, what are you going to do, tell good players to stop playing so well?

I'd honestly prefer to see maps and spawn systems designed to keep freshly spawned players away from enemy kill boxes.

 

[YourExWife]

Are you guys seriously arguing about whether or not spawn camping is okay?

It's not. It's never been okay.

Oh c'mon. Read the actual arguments before contributing nothing to the discussion. It's a core tenant of intelligent objective play. Why should we let you live a little longer to run away or whatever? Like I said, learn how to combat them.

People are always against having spawn knowledge or map knowledge when it goes against them. But like I and Prinz have said, epic spawn traps are a result of mismatched teams. You shouldn't form opinions or design your game around those kinds of matches. Controlling enemy spawns when you're pulling flags on CTF Pit was one of the most important mental keys to winning in H3. But apparently, if my team is playing against derps that keep getting #outBRdMate, then its suddenly an "unfair advantage" in a game where they aren't going to win anyway. Barring objective holding, it only serves to make mismatches over faster and more decisively.

Again, what are we supposed to do? NOT shoot the bad guys as efficiently as possible? C'mon.

I'd honestly prefer to see maps and spawn systems designed to keep freshly spawned players away from enemy kill boxes.

But then why even have a map if the actual usage of the map makes no difference? Guess we should all just fight in a cube always spawning behind the enemy team no matter what. Sounds great...

This type of thinking is akin to telling a fighting game player to not punish the opponent for getting backed into a wall. "You shouldn't pummel and combo the shit out of him for that, you should let him get away and turn your back to him so that he has more of a chance." C'mon.

C'mon.

 

[Karl2177]

Oh c'mon. Read the actual arguments before contributing nothing to the discussion. It's a core tenant of intelligent objective play. Why should we let you live a little longer to run away or whatever? Like I said, learn how to combat them.

People are always against having spawn knowledge or map knowledge when it goes against them. But like I and Prinz have said, epic spawn traps are a result of mismatched teams. You shouldn't form opinions or design your game around those kinds of matches. Controlling enemy spawns when you're pulling flags on CTF Pit was one of the most important mental keys to winning in H3. But apparently, if my team is playing against derps that keep getting #outBRdMate, then its suddenly an "unfair advantage" in a game where they aren't going to win anyway. Barring objective holding, it only serves to make mismatches over faster and more decisively.

Again, what are we supposed to do? NOT shoot the bad guys as efficiently as possible? C'mon.

C'mon.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Oh c'mon. Read the actual arguments before contributing nothing to the discussion. It's a core tenant of intelligent objective play. Why should we let you live a little longer to run away or whatever? Like I said, learn how to combat them.

People are always against having spawn knowledge or map knowledge when it goes against them. But like I and Prinz have said, epic spawn traps are a result of mismatched teams. You shouldn't form opinions or design your game around those kinds of matches. Controlling enemy spawns when you're pulling flags on CTF Pit was one of the most important mental keys to winning in H3. But apparently, if my team is playing against derps that keep getting #outBRdMate, then its suddenly an "unfair advantage" in a game where they aren't going to win anyway. Barring objective holding, it only serves to make mismatches over faster and more decisively.

Again, what are we supposed to do? NOT shoot the bad guys as efficiently as possible? C'mon.



But then why even have a map if the actual usage of the map makes no difference? Guess we should all just fight in a cube always spawning behind the enemy team no matter what. Sounds great...

There are so many, many other reasons to have maps that are more than just featureless cubes. Spawn camping is not one of them.

 

[YourExWife]

There are so many, many other reasons to have maps that are more than just featureless cubes. Spawn camping is not one of them.

Using my Pit CTF example, where do you think the enemy team should spawn? In our base? "Ya, that way all the work you did to take over their side of the map means jack shit"

C'mon

 

[Fracas]

I'm not a fan of spawn camping but I understand why it's necessary.

 

[Rockyrock]

Im too scared to ever know how many games of Halo 2 i played.

Im glad there is no way to ever fully calculate that total.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Using my Pit CTF example, where do you think the enemy team should spawn? In our base? "Ya, that way all the work you did to take over their side of the map means jack shit"

C'mon

Depends on the map. I'd have to take another look at the Pit, but I'd have them spawn somewhere off from the main body of the enemy team; it'd have to be intelligent. You get hit by a sniper from across the map by an enemy sniper perched on a ledge, fine. Thems the breaks, and that's rather the point of securing long-range weapons like that. But the mid-range utility weapons the entire team spawns with shouldn't be able to achieve that effect consistently. Dominant team will still have every other conceivable advantage that stems from map control, just not the ability to squash any attempt at opposition.

 

[Orochinagis]

Using my Pit CTF example, where do you think the enemy team should spawn? In our base? "Ya, that way all the work you did to take over their side of the map means jack shit"

C'mon

If you are in the middle they can spawn in your own base spawn in Halo 4.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

I'd honestly prefer to see maps and spawn systems designed to keep freshly spawned players away from enemy kill boxes.

Uh, they are. I mean, there is always more room for better spawn mechanics but you have to put players somewhere, and good players are always going to figure out the pattern unless you make it truly random (at which point you should be playing Candy Land instead).

I don't know how I feel about a mercy rule. I have seen some crazy ass comebacks, but they are so rare they hardly factor into it.

Where did you purchase your Xbox One? I still need to get on that.

Target, they have a 15% off electronics coupon this weekend only, and my girlfriend works there for the employee discount.

As for a mercy rule type-thing, I think it would be better to shorten super lopsided games than let them run out. Tons of people AFK anyway, or just get hopelessly worked up about it, and by that point the winning team's probably had enough fun to be content and ready for the next match. I think it'd be nice to have an option to shave a few minutes off that empty experience.

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

If you are in the middle they can spawn in your own base spawn in Halo 4.

you can also spawn immediately in halo 4. so spawning in halo 4 (among other things) is bad

 

[Nebula]

If you are in the middle they can spawn in your own base spawn in Halo 4.

Which is why it sucks. Pretty sure one of the DLC maps lets the enemy spawn on your flag as well.

 

[YourExWife]

If you are in the middle they can spawn in your own base spawn in Halo 4.

Which has a broken "spawn anywhere system". Same shit can happen on Ragnarok if you push too many people onto the enemy side of the map. Not only will they spawn behind you, they'll spawn inches away to your side or at turret/pelican. Further reinforcing my point that overly dynamic spawns like H4's are stupid.

@Poodle, I'm not even sure what you mean anymore. You're ok with getting spawn killed, just so long as it's from a distance? THAT'S THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING, EXCEPT IT'S EVEN EASIER TO PULL OFF. As far as Pit goes, the flag spawn control involves having your team spread over their entire side, with the flag carrier pushing the objective. Someone 'nades the shotgun (for example) and since you're taking up all the enemy-side mid locations, they'll spawn snipe side. So you set up keeping an eye on that side while the flag person juggles it through long-hall or green. Explain this "intelligent" place where you think they should spawn. On the grenades being thrown shotgun side? Or behind the attackers? Those are literally the only other options. Please actually answer the question this time.

Which is why it sucks. Pretty sure one of the DLC maps lets the enemy spawn on your flag as well.

That would be Skyline. "Oh, you fought successfully to take the enemy out to actually EARN the flag pull? Here, let me spawn them on your flag so that your efforts were completely pointless."

 

[Mistel]

If you are in the middle they can spawn in your own base spawn in Halo 4.

Which makes no sense at all really as you then have to fight them at your own base possibly.

 

[Nebula]

I've spawn killed people on the Mongoose. Just to give you an idea of how bad the spawns are on Halo 4. Dynamic spawns suck and should never enter sided objective gametypes.

 

[-Ryn]

My replies in bold

You keep calling it an unfair advantage. It's not. It's only unfair when people aren't even matches. Entire strategies back in the "golden days" of competitive play were designed to get out of spawn traps and retake map control. Two well-matched teams will often take turns holding control points on the map to influence spawns to their advantage.
I call it unfair because it is an exploit that isn't exactly in game knowledge that the average player has access to. The problem is that there are plenty of times in matchmaking where the teams won't be even. Sure for competitive play this is common knowledge but most players probably don't understand or even know these strategies that you're talking about.

What I don't understand about your logic is you think positioning and knowledge should be rewarded, but you think it's unfair when that reward exists. You can't have it both ways. "Spend a match fighting to get to cover"? This is the easiest shit to get out of in later Halos. Just sprint out of your base. I've heard people complain about this on something like Simplex CTF. Seriously? Even if the other team has the entire midsection controlled, you just have to make a coordinated push / sprint on one side to, even if only temporarily, change the spawn pattern.
Change the way the spawning works. Crazy idea time but maybe allow the ability to choose a section if the map to spawn in (somewhat similar to Invasion) and it will spawn the player on a spawn point within that area. Say that there are three areas per team per map and 4 respawn points within an area. This would be a BTB map most likely. Respawn time would be about 4 seconds for slayer I believe so instead of the player just staring at their dead body they can at least try to formulate a quick strategy. The other team can still coordinate and have an idea of where players will spawn though so knowledge of where each point is and where players will likely spawn is still a factor.

The point is, knowing how to set up a good offensive spawn trap or position means that if it happens to you, you should know how to get out of it. With the exception of Octagon 1v1 customs, there isn't one where that's impossible. In a fair match, both sides know the risk and reward, and to be perfectly honest, in 1v1s, there is a good amount of luck involved and sometimes you just get screwed over. Not to mention the match in question was only a few minutes whereas a real match would be longer and allow for for potential comebacks.
I agree that it is important for knowing how to do this in competitive play because of map control and whatnot. Again though outside of competitive play most players probably don't have an understanding of how spawns work. Hell plenty might not even realize it can exploited. If there was something in game that actually taught players how to learn them or something then that would be another story but there isn't. Players get their ass handed to them and they have no idea how. As I said before it isn't really an issue in 1v1 due to map traversal and cover on smaller maps. Like you said the match was also shorter than it would've normally been.

While this system does lead to some grief-ing in matchmaking, what is usually leads to in competitive play is that the better team almost always wins, which is what should happen. If your team isn't as good and can't break the spawn trap or mix up the spawn cycles, then tough. You lose. You, in almost every case, were *not* the better team.
In competitive play where you both have an actual team instead of a random bunch of players then sure I can see how it works since you are probably going in with some knowledge of the system. However in regular matchmaking, it is a problem. Not everyone has a bunch of friends online to go in with. You can only do so much on your own against a team. Even if you do know how everything works and try to change the flow of the spawns, the rest of your team could very well be running around not having the slightest idea about what you are trying to do.

I'm not trying to say these systems are ruining Halo. I get that spawns and timing are a big part of the competitive community (which I love playing with and think are a core part of Halo). It just needs to be reworked. Something needs to be done to help new players and even long time fans who may not understand the system so they can "get good".

This could be done by creating some kind of tutorial from the pros or adding hints in the game.

The online problem could certainly be helped by adding a system that doesn't match up a team of randoms with full parties. I know the idea has been discussed here before. Even just having a ranked vs social system could help if implemented right.

Hope this all made some kind of sense.

 

[Orochinagis]

you can also spawn immediately in halo 4. so spawning in halo 4 (among other things) is bad

I blame this to be the main issue, in COD ghost you literally start a death spree spawning and dying so fast you move in entire map spawning and dying.

Which makes no sense at all really as you then have to fight them at your own base possibly.

I could be great to start in a main base spawn like battlefield where the enemy cant reach you and viceversa.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Which has a broken "spawn anywhere system". Same shit can happen on Ragnarok if you push too many people onto the enemy side of the map. Not only will they spawn behind you, they'll spawn inches away to your side or at turret/pelican. Further reinforcing my point that overly dynamic spawns like H4's are stupid.

@Poodle, I'm not even sure what you mean anymore. You're ok with getting spawn killed, just so long as it's from a distance? THAT'S THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING, EXCEPT IT'S EVEN EASIER TO PULL OFF. As far as Pit goes, the flag spawn control involves having your team spread over their entire side, with the flag carrier pushing the objective. Someone 'nades the shotgun (for example) and since you're taking up all the enemy-side mid locations, they'll spawn snipe side. So you set up keeping an eye on that side while the flag person juggles it through long-hall or green. Explain this "intelligent" place where you think they should spawn. On the grenades being thrown shotgun side? Or behind the attackers? Those are literally the only other options. Please actually answer the question this time.


That would be Skyline. "Oh, you fought successfully to take the enemy out to actually EARN the flag pull? Here, let me spawn them on your flag so that your efforts were completely pointless."

My point was that if there's one dude with a sniper who nails you from across the map when you spawn, that's an extenuating circumstance and an advantage specific to a single (possibly 2) weapon(s). Again, it's been a while since I last played The Pit, but I'd say behind the enemy team. Yes, it's an advantage, and yes, it takes a little bit away from the winning team, but if they're really that dominant it shouldn't matter so much. Again, though, keep it sane; don't allow people to spawn on top of the objective, but also don't place them smack dab in the enemy killbox.

Keep in mind that I'm arguing from a social playlist perspective, which is really all I play. Competitive play is another kettle of fish.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Amazing.