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Hannibal S3 |OT| Man Destroys God. Hannibal Eats Man. Hannibal Inherits The Earth.

Ashok

Banned
Only thing I didn't care for was
the Bedelia tag, partly because I didn't really understand what the scene was supposed to mean -- didn't know that hunk of her meat was supposed to be a leg, and couldn't see that she was missing one -- but also partly because Gillian Anderson's acting this season has been terrible and I've no idea what feelings she was trying to express (seemingly all of them all at once).

That aside, I really dug the finale. I'm satisfied with this as the ending of Hannibal.
Really?? Gillian Anderson has been a highlight of the show for me. I absolutely adore Bedelia this year, she's one of my favorite characters in S3 and I love how Gillian plays her.
I loved the end tag with Gillian, I thought it gave the finale a great deal of mystique with regard to her motives and Will and Hannibal's true fate.
 

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
The Bedelia scene provides the hint that Will and/or Hannibal are still alive.

No. No no no. It's time for y'all to let this thing go.

Although I guess the perseverance of some of these characters long since hit Melrose Place levels of absurdity, so why stop now
 

Katori

Member
No. No no no. It's time for y'all to let this thing go.

Although I guess the perseverance of some of these characters long since hit Melrose Place levels of absurdity, so why stop now
Seriously? It's meant to provide a lead-in to season 4. Of a show called "Hannibal."

Let that sink in.
 
How would a season 4 work in relation to the source material?

It'd basically just be all new stuff. The only thing I can remotely think of is
Chilton, Jack, and Miriam teaming up in a SOTL type case. There is no other way.

There's not really any other meaningful way to incorporate any storylines from the books. All the good stuff's basically been remixed into the series.
 
How would a season 4 work in relation to the source material?

Fuller made it clear many times his intent was Silence of the Lambs and then an original ending over the course of 1 or 2 more seasons. The only things standing in his way were getting renewed (which he made clear multiple times he always hoped for and set things up each season so it could continue or end and make sense either way) and getting the Silence rights (which wasn't impossible, just really hard). This was even teased
with Buffalo Chilton

He came up with new stuff for basically every season. No reason to think season 4 wouldn't have been the same
 

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
Seriously? It's meant to provide a lead-in to season 4. Of a show called "Hannibal."

Let that sink in.

I'm quite aware -- just as Fuller was more than likely aware his show didn't have a real chance of coming back for a fourth season while he was conceiving the finale. He's welcome to keep trotting out faux optimism and hypotheticals about the series continuing from this, but c'mon.

I liked the ending and I'm glad the show concluded when it did.
 
Fuller made it clear many times his intent was Silence of the Lambs and then an original ending over the course of 1 or 2 more seasons. The only things standing in his way were getting renewed (which he made clear multiple times he always hoped for and set things up each season so it could continue or end and make sense either way) and getting the Silence rights (which wasn't impossible, just really hard). This was even teased
with Buffalo Chilton

He came up with new stuff for basically every season. No reason to think season 4 wouldn't have been the same
I'm curious what his plans were for Will Graham: Drop him entirely or have him work along side Clarise? Either one would be a major change to the show's formula.
 
I'm quite aware -- just as Fuller was more than likely aware his show didn't have a real chance of coming back for a fourth season while he was conceiving the finale. He's welcome to keep trotting out faux optimism and hypotheticals about the series continuing from this, but c'mon.

I liked the ending and I'm glad the show concluded when it did.

I think a fourth season can still be done, but it'd be such a radical departure from what is already a hilariously radical departure... it'd be interesting, haha.

I'm curious what his plans were for Will Graham: Drop him entirely or have him work along side Clarise? Either one would be a major change to the show's formula.

He did state the original plan was where Hannibal, Will, and Clarice go on one final journey together in the last season. That was years ago though, so who knows.
 

Ashok

Banned
I'm quite aware -- just as Fuller was more than likely aware his show didn't have a real chance of coming back for a fourth season while he was conceiving the finale. He's welcome to keep trotting out faux optimism and hypotheticals about the series continuing from this, but c'mon.

I liked the ending and I'm glad the show concluded when it did.
Faux optimism? I'm not saying Season 4 is going to happen but Bryan and the cast seem genuinely interested in returning in some capacity, even if it were just for a film. Doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Ofc Twin Peaks is back from the dead, so anything is possible in TV now I guess.
 

Moff

Member
I'm going to say it took Chilton to reveal Will. Will realized that family life isn't what he wants in the end. All of that was a distraction for his real calling - which is to be by Hannibal's side. The look on Crawford's face says it all. Will set him up the same way Chilton was. He's become as pathlogical as Hannibal. Will knew exactly how this was going to go down and sacrificed those cops for "authenticity" to his plan. The escape was his design.

that went completely over my head, at no point did a realize that will chose to abandon his family and kill cops to free hannibal
 

Gorger

Member
I'm wondering if they changed the finale after it was canceled to make it more into an open ending with the possibility of continuation, or if this was intended from the beginning.

Man what a twisted beautiful show, it's a fucking tragedy that this most likely was the final Hannibal episode.
 
It wouldn't. I believe Fuller's said his conception of Season 4 wouldn't have anything to do with Silence of the Lambs. It would have been off in the weeds on its own shit.
(Show structure and final episode spoiler)
The original structure for the show basically was (in season 1):
Season 1-3 being original
Season 4 being Red Dragon
Season 5 being Silence
Season 6 being Hannibal
Season 7 being an original ending.

This was rejigged a bit to get to a six season show structure which would basically have been (in season 2):
Season 1 and 2 being original material.
Season 3 being Hannibal (*)
Season 4 being Red Dragon (*)
Season 5 being Silence
Season 6 being an original ending.
*These two may be swapped, I cannot recall precisely.

This was further altered over the course of this season when Fuller stated how he wanted to continue:
Season 1-3 being what we got.
Season 4 being an 'exploration if Will and Hannibal's relationship in a way we've never seen before' (the specifics aren't clear)
Season 5 being Silence.
We don't really know much more, and maybe he'd have combined Silence and Season 4 while writing it, but his comments over the course of the season about how the show would progress, as you say, didn't indicate that an adaptation of Silence would be coming.

I think part of the confusion relies on the fact that Fuller's plan for the show is less of something that was written in stone, and was much more malleable, so his comments about the show's overall structure tend to conflict with past comments.
 
Amazing finale. The cinematography throughout has been especially incredible. I hope those involved get recognised at the award shows.

Can I ask, as someone who has never read the books, who is
"Buffalo Chilton"
?
 
Amazing finale. The cinematography throughout has been especially incredible. I hope those involved get recognised at the award shows.

Can I ask, as someone who has never read the books, who is
"Buffalo Chilton"
?

(final episode spoiler, and vague comments on "The Silence of the Lambs")
It's not a real character. "Buffalo Bill" is the killer in "The Silence of the Lambs". Alana's phrase to Chilton about being uncomfortable in his own skin is very suggestive of the reason Buffalo Bill kills. People are combining "Chilton" and "Buffalo Bill" to create "Buffalo Chilton", thinking this is where the story would be going next.
 

Saty

Member
A fake escape was meant to be staged, but Dolarhyde intervened himself before it could happen, and killed the police, allowing both Hannibal and Will to actually escape so that he could 'change' them himself (as he needed more privacy than the middle of the road would allow). I don't think it was meant to imply that Will told Dolarhyde everything (but if he did it would be entirely fitting, I just don't think another scene with Dolarhyde was necessary to imply this with a basis in the show), but I do think he definitely expected Dolarhyde to intervene (note Will's conversation with Hannibal where Hannibal calls him out on it being too easy, note how Dolarhyde has a history of brazen actions, and note how Will clearly knows that Dolarhyde is 'intrigued' by the thought of killing Lecter and having access to him). He certainly was willing to sacrifice the police though, he never intended to go through with the entire plan, that was a ploy to trick Jack and Alana into accepting it; Will was, as Bedalia stated, pathologically lying throughout the entirety of the episode to release Hannibal (including when he told Hannibal that it was 'bad' to see him again, when Alana would have been listening). Had Dolarhyde not intervened? They would have escaped together through another means.

Will didn't necessarily want both dead, Will never really wanted Hannibal 'dead' per se, he wanted to 'one-up' him to put it crudely (of course, in this relationship that regularly consisted of proving that he's able to outsmart, snare, and kill Hannibal). If Will ever truly wanted Hannibal dead, he was able to do it very easily in the kitchen after being released when he had Hannibal at gun point, but he didn't, because he wanted to see how it would play out and to prove that he was smarter. He wanted to prove his superiority, just as Hannibal wished to prove his (but more often succeeding). Will had, in many ways, moved on from Hannibal and this desire to prove superiority, but in coming back, his 'current' life was made unsustainable, and as Bedalia stated, he couldn't live with Hannibal (who was in prison, trapped away from him with Alana as a barrier), nor could he live without him (with Molly because of all that happened). Will finally embraced his ability to manipulate events through cold and cruel means, so that he could kill with Hannibal (note when Hannibal asks if he was surprised with Dolarhyde contacting him and indicating his survival, he says 'yes and no'. His motive for Dolarhyde dying only rested in the ability to secure his family's survival, but he himself noted that there was no future there for himself (it was an act of righteous violence, killing Dolarhyde cruelly to give Molly and her son peace of mind, while completing his transformation). Will, himself, may not have known whether he would allow Hannibal to live or not in the moment, but his conversations with Bedalia certainly indicate it was his intention to let him live from the beginning and to escape with him.

Dolarhyde attacking Will? It could be down to Dolarhyde hearing voices warning him of Will,, Dolarhyde having very sensitive hearing (fitting in with him being of such peak capabilities), or it could just be unexplainable and a contrivance to allow the scene to happen.
Thanks for the explanations.

I guess i'm getting caught up in the technicalities of what would the fake-escape be and how the FBI would have monitored Will and Hannibal to ensure nothing funky is going on, but at the same time allowing for a pretty light security on the transportation and seemingly having no personnel watching the 'convoy' from a distance that's far enough not to raise suspicions but no too far to prevent timely response if shit goes down.

And then i think about them three using police cars, and ofc you assume they disabled the GPS systems that would allow Jack and the FBI know where they went to, but it's still an assumption you have to take that isn't explicitly corroborated.
And then you think about why the fuck are the FBI using a drawing of Dolarhyde's face from Will's memory when surely that Museum visit resulted in bunch of security camera footage of Dolarhyde. You publish the photos, 'Gateway' workers immediately phone in and bam you got him or you got a hunt.

That has been one of 'Hannibal's fault across the 3 season. Its giving itself too much slack and picking and choosing which blanks to fill or keep empty.

Didn't understand what you meant to say about Will being surprised and not surprised with Dolarhyde contacting him after the fake suicide.
I actually don't see what was the point with the fake suicide from Dolarhyde's pov. Okay, you convince everyone you're dead only to reveal yourself to Will a day later, and for what reason exactly? He didn't gain anything by that. Will told everyone he's still alive.

Regarding the ending, i don't think i agree that Hannibal 'allowed' for Will's push to happen. It was a quick and sudden movement that i doubt Hannibal would have been able to counter.
I agree that thematically it works if you read as will embracing his 'dark side' and Hannibal awarding him this act in the vein 'now we can both die happily' or something.

Which is why the after credits scene with Belinda is terrible. It serves no purpose other than a cheap open-ended tease 'OR maybe they are not dead after all!!' if one day there will be continuation.

But it's not needed at all. S4 is a go and you choose to keep the alive? Then pick up from the moment of the plunge or have a flashback to it. They are dead? Then why the heck was Belinda so eager and quick to mutilate herself and sit there waiting for more torture by them instead of getting her stuff and get the hell out of reach, in the same way Alanna did?

This cheap tease dilutes the ending completely especially if you look at it as Will & Hannibal uniting in killing and in return Hannibal lets Will have his way with pushing them both down to certain death. This is how they choose to end their lives, this is how Hannibal chooses to - he's content, he finally got what he wanted so he's fine with dying. But nope, here we have this scene that possibly undermines that and doesn't contribute anything. Characters' survivability in this show is ludicrous enough without floating the notion that Will and Hannibal survived even that plunge.
 

Alpende

Member
Watched it yesterday and it was amazing. Those last 10 or so minutes, sooo gooood.

Would really suck if this was the last episode. What a great series.
 

Blader

Member
But it's not needed at all. S4 is a go and you choose to keep the alive? Then pick up from the moment of the plunge or have a flashback to it. They are dead? Then why the heck was Belinda so eager and quick to mutilate herself and sit there waiting for more torture by them instead of getting her stuff and get the hell out of reach, in the same way Alanna did?

I think the point there would be that
Bedelia knows Hannibal is coming but, unlike Alana, also knows she can't run -- there'd be no where she could go, no where to hide, that Hannibal wouldn't find her. So rather than escaping like Alana does, she decides to embrace her fate and effectively beat Hannibal to the punch: severing, cooking and preparing her own leg for dinner for once Hannibal arrives. The final irony then being that Hannibal is actually dead, and Bedelia, not realizing that, mutilated herself in vain. She's waiting for her killer but he's never going to come.

I agree that I don't like the open-ended nature of the last scene either. I think Will and Hannibal's deaths over the cliff make for a great conclusion to their relationship and the series as a whole, and bringing one or both of them back from that cheapens the finality of it and also really strains the credibility of the mortal damage these characters can bounce back from; it's one thing to go that route in the S2 finale and then walk back from it, but to do that again in the very next finale is too much.

Which is why I choose to read the ending as Hannibal and Will are dead, and Bedelia cooked her own leg for nothing. And since there won't be a S4, there's nothing to contradict this either! :lol
 
(I think part of the confusion relies on the fact that Fuller's plan for the show is less of something that was written in stone, and was much more malleable, so his comments about the show's overall structure tend to conflict with past comments.)

Yeah, my post was referencing what I believed to be his most recent comments (the ones in your final set). I think they were made either just before, or immediately after, the cancellation announcement, like you said.

I remember hearing waaaaay back about the very first seven-season plan, and that's what actually got me to watch the show: At the time, I hadn't heard much, and was skeptical as to what the fuck NBC was going to actually do with the character. And then I stumbled across an interview with Fuller, and I was like "Well, shit. I guess I'm in. We'll give this a shot."

Of course, even then, I knew there was no fuckin way he was getting to seven.
 

Ithil

Member
If you want that to be a series finale, it's excellent. If it gets renewed somewhere, then great.

As it stands it's a satisfying three season story. I would love to get to Silence, but if we never get any more seasons, then at least we got a great ending.
 

Ashok

Banned
I think the point there would be that
Which is why I choose to read the ending as Hannibal and Will are dead, and Bedelia cooked her own leg for nothing. And since there won't be a S4, there's nothing to contradict this either! :lol

I don't see that even remotely being canon tho (at least not in Bryan's head). If anything,
Will and Hannibal are most certainly alive in the Fuller universe. Bryan has repeatedly said he would like to continue Will and Hannibal's story with a film, and that if there was a S4 it would be focused on Will and Hannibal again, before exploring SOTL with a very much alive Hannibal.
 

Mariolee

Member
I don't see that even remotely being canon tho (at least not in Bryan's head). If anything,
Will and Hannibal are most certainly alive in the Fuller universe. Bryan has repeatedly said he would like to continue Will and Hannibal's story with a film, and that if there was a S4 it would be focused on Will and Hannibal again, before exploring SOTL with a very much alive Hannibal.

Until that S4 comes however, I think the ending is meant to be open with the most likely ending being they are dead. If a movie comes (since S4 will certainly not happen) then they can retcon it, but having them die is the most satisfying ending for me. Also because it leads to the sweet ironic ending of Bedelia cutting off her leg for nothing showing even when dead, Hannibal still has agency beyond the grave.
 

Solo

Member
What a terribly lukewarm finale to a terribly lukewarm season. I wont be revisiting this season when I rewatch the series. To me, Hannibal ends with the S2 finale with Hannibal leaving everyone for dead, shedding his person suit and stepping out into the rain.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Series finale today:
Season 3: episode 13 "The Wrath of the Lamb"

Will hatches a cunning plot to slay Francis Dolarhyde, using Hannibal Lecter in his ploy. Bedelia voices concern about the perilous plan as Will continues his game with Hannibal, though Will may have to face his darkest fears.
 

KingKong

Member
I just don't see her cutting off her own leg. Everything about the presentation and setup and the fact that they were leading in to next season screams Hannibal is the one cutting and cooking her.
 
Can't wait to see it again tonight, live with the fans. Love to follow Fuller's live tweets. Too bad it's the last time for Hannibal. But what an incredible way to go out. Hope you all enjoy it.
 

Mariolee

Member
I just don't see her cutting off her own leg. Everything about the presentation and setup and the fact that they were leading in to next season screams Hannibal is the one cutting and cooking her.
Bedelia is crazy af. And it was set up earlier in the episode that she already considers herself dead if Will goes through with his plan. Everything was telegraphed to point to Bedelia doing this stuff on her own in anticipation of Hannibal. I've not yet seen one compelling reason why Bedelia was not alone in that post credits scene.
 

awp69

Member
Can't wait to see it again tonight, live with the fans. Love to follow Fuller's live tweets. Too bad it's the last time for Hannibal. But what an incredible way to go out. Hope you all enjoy it.

Still refuse to believe this is it. Whether it's a film or series, it has to continue. I'd bet a feature would do well -- probably better than the series financially. Could you imagine Mads up for an Oscar for a new Hannibal movie? I think he could.
 
(final episode spoiler, and vague comments on "The Silence of the Lambs")
It's not a real character. "Buffalo Bill" is the killer in "The Silence of the Lambs". Alana's phrase to Chilton about being uncomfortable in his own skin is very suggestive of the reason Buffalo Bill kills. People are combining "Chilton" and "Buffalo Bill" to create "Buffalo Chilton", thinking this is where the story would be going next.

Ah, I see.

I'm glad we got to see Margot one (albeit brief) last time. For anybody that hasn't seen it, Katherine Isabelle starred in American Mary, a pretty good horror with some grim Hannibal-esque scenes murder/torture scenes...

tumblr_nr5llmrmf81qkspg9o1_500.jpg
 

Blader

Member
I don't see that even remotely being canon tho (at least not in Bryan's head).

Sure; obviously if there was going to be a S4 and beyond, he'd write himself out of that ending. But the show is over and there will almost definitely not be any continuation, so Fuller's head canon for what could happen next is moot for me.
 
Sure; obviously if there was going to be a S4 and beyond, he'd write himself out of that ending. But the show is over and there will almost definitely not be any continuation, so Fuller's head canon for what could happen next is moot for me.

They're interested in getting a moving going. If Veronica Mars can return, I don't see why this couldn't. Probably not for 2-3 years though . . .

That said, I have no idea how they'd tell everything they want to in what would be less than 3 episodes worth of time without greatly changing up the show's dynamic.
 

Ashok

Banned
Sure; obviously if there was going to be a S4 and beyond, he'd write himself out of that ending. But the show is over and there will almost definitely not be any continuation, so Fuller's head canon for what could happen next is moot for me.
Maybe, but I have to believe that
Clarice is canon in this universe. She has to find Buffalo Bill with Hannibal, even if we don't see it! I love Silence too much!!! They are all alive, man!!!
 
I dunno. I can't imagine Silence was really in the cards once the problems with MGM started getting in the way. Clarice was always just Will Graham, take two. A different way to get at a similar dynamic from Red Dragon. And since Will in this show is already essentially at the same point, character wise, as Clarice was at the end of Hannibal, her entire existence is almost completely unnecessary. The will of this show not only is a better Will than the one in the book, he's a better Clarice, too. Fuller basically gave up on it somewhere during Season Two and let Will have it all.

I don't see there being any room for a Clarice Starling as a third wheel in whatever prospective Hannibal movie that could potentially pop up in two or three years. Miriam Lass was probably as close as we'd ever get, and she was one of the casualties of Season Two's madness.
 
MGM should just embrace what everyone else is, the remake. Drop the "Hannibal" name from the series and just bill is a "Silence of the Lambs". That name still holds a lot of water, even if people aren't so into Hannibal Lecter. They should do a special series, like the X-files, at 6 episodes (3 to fill the gap, 3 for SotL). They could even bring it to Netflix then. Without the "Hannibal" name staring everyone in the face, maybe Netflix would be more open to it. They could produce the series as long as Fuller wants to as well. Seems like most actors have no problem devoting 6 hours to a mini-series. Production schedule probably is the same as a 2 hour feature.

And there are so many ways to put SotL into this universe. There will be a lot to get out of the way, going from the finale, but I'm sure Fuller is more than prepared for it. He has talked about feature length continuations after all. They could introduce Clarice all by herself, and she's
on the hunt for Hannibal and Will(?). Maybe Will abandoned/was betrayed by Hannibal and Clarice is consulting him and they are both trying to catch him. Maybe Clarice helps catch both of them and then that leads to SotL.
It's not like Fuller hasn't radically altered things before.
 

Turin

Banned
MGM should just embrace what everyone else is, the remake. Drop the "Hannibal" name from the series and just bill is a "Silence of the Lambs". That name still holds a lot of water, even if people aren't so into Hannibal Lecter. They should do a special series, like the X-files, at 6 episodes (3 to fill the gap, 3 for SotL). They could even bring it to Netflix then. Without the "Hannibal" name staring everyone in the face, maybe Netflix would be more open to it. They could produce the series as long as Fuller wants to as well. Seems like most actors have no problem devoting 6 hours to a mini-series. Production schedule probably is the same as a 2 hour feature.

And there are so many ways to put SotL into this universe. There will be a lot to get out of the way, going from the finale, but I'm sure Fuller is more than prepared for it. He has talked about feature length continuations after all. They could introduce Clarice all by herself, and she's
on the hunt for Hannibal and Will(?). Maybe Will abandoned/was betrayed by Hannibal and Clarice is consulting him and they are both trying to catch him. Maybe Clarice helps catch both of them and then that leads to SotL.
It's not like Fuller hasn't radically altered things before.

Honestly, I've been wondering if calling the show 'Hannibal' wasn't a misstep. For a number of reasons.
 

Angry Fork

Member
So does this
kill any chances for a season 4 on another platform? (Netflix), or does the white lady's missing leg suggest they faked their death? (which is silly but I would be fine with it because I want a Clarice season badly).
 

Katori

Member
MGM should just embrace what everyone else is, the remake. Drop the "Hannibal" name from the series and just bill is a "Silence of the Lambs". That name still holds a lot of water, even if people aren't so into Hannibal Lecter. They should do a special series, like the X-files, at 6 episodes (3 to fill the gap, 3 for SotL). They could even bring it to Netflix then. Without the "Hannibal" name staring everyone in the face, maybe Netflix would be more open to it. They could produce the series as long as Fuller wants to as well. Seems like most actors have no problem devoting 6 hours to a mini-series. Production schedule probably is the same as a 2 hour feature.

And there are so many ways to put SotL into this universe. There will be a lot to get out of the way, going from the finale, but I'm sure Fuller is more than prepared for it. He has talked about feature length continuations after all. They could introduce Clarice all by herself, and she's
on the hunt for Hannibal and Will(?). Maybe Will abandoned/was betrayed by Hannibal and Clarice is consulting him and they are both trying to catch him. Maybe Clarice helps catch both of them and then that leads to SotL.
It's not like Fuller hasn't radically altered things before.

MGM doesn't produce this show, the DeLaurentiis Company does. They own (or have a license to) the rights to the book "Red Dragon", and rent per-episode the rights to characters originating in "Hannibal" and "Hannibal Rising." MGM only holds the rights to characters originating in "SotL".

And yes, that's a pretty good idea, I feel like the show would work better in an even smaller format. 6 episodes could finish the entire story.

So does this
kill any chances for a season 4 on another platform? (Netflix), or does the white lady's missing leg suggest they faked their death? (which is silly but I would be fine with it because I want a Clarice season badly).

They didn't change the ending in any way, so this could lead into Season 4 (remember, of a show called "Hannibal"), or it could be the end, it's up for interpretation. But Netflix isn't getting it for a while either way--Amazon has exclusive streaming rights for the foreseeable future and they passed on it.
 
Man, so good

Hannibal insisted a lot on the bluff's eroding, I think he could have survived the fall (i'm not an expert, it's still pretty high too but at least they could have fallen in the water) and not bled out afterwards, but will's hurt pretty bad even before falling, don't think he could make it
Lots of interpretations possible, just hope Fuller won't go full Ridley Scott about it and leave people chose their ending in a way
 
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