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Hannibal S3 |OT| Man Destroys God. Hannibal Eats Man. Hannibal Inherits The Earth.

Jesus Christ at the last ten minutes. Did the reshoot the entire ending after they find out it was over or was this how it was always meant to end?

And what the hell are we supposed to make fo the Bedelia scene? My mind is racing and so full of what the fuck right now...
 

Monocle

Member
Jesus Christ at the last ten minutes. Did the reshoot the entire ending after they find out it was over or was this how it was always meant to end?

And what the hell are we supposed to make fo the Bedelia scene? My mind is racing and so full of what the fuck right now...
Bryan Fuller answered your questions in the interviews Cornballer posted.

On the ending:
That's how it was planned since the middle of the season. The season had wrapped before the show was canceled. The inspiration for the dive was Sherlock and Moriarty at the Reichenbach Falls.

On Bedelia:
Fuller meant to imply that either one of Hannibal's relatives is having Bedelia for dinner, or that Hannibal or Will or both survived. If the series continues, Hannibal and Will are there.

Plans for the series' continuation:
Fuller really wants to tell the story he's planned for Season 4, as part of a six-part miniseries or a movie. He says that for Will "his most interesting chapter is yet to be told."
 
Bryan Fuller answered your questions in the interviews Cornballer posted.

On the ending:
That's how it was planned since the middle of the season. The season had wrapped before the show was canceled. The inspiration for the dive was Sherlock and Moriarty at the Reichenbach Falls.

On Bedelia:
Fuller meant to imply that either one of Hannibal's relatives is having Bedelia for dinner, or that Hannibal or Will or both survived. If the series continues, Hannibal and Will are there.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

That Bedelia info. Goddamn. I need to see that happen. Why couldn't Amazon pump some of that Top Gear money into this. Fuck.
 

Monocle

Member
Ah, okay. Thanks.

That Bedelia info. Goddamn. I need to see that happen. Why couldn't Amazon pump some of that Top Gear money into this. Fuck.
Right? At least Fuller hasn't given up on Hannibal. I thought maybe he was over it now that he's going to be working on American Gods, but based on the latest crop of interviews he hasn't lost any enthusiasm for the series.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
I imagine all the actors have already moved onto other things now. So I can't see it ever getting revived.

Also, I hope Fuller takes his willingness to deviate from the book (as he did in Hannibal) when running American Gods. Cos damn that book was shit.
 

jerry113

Banned
I imagine all the actors have already moved onto other things now. So I can't see it ever getting revived.

Also, I hope Fuller takes his willingness to deviate from the book (as he did in Hannibal) when running American Gods. Cos damn that book was shit.

Hey Firefly got a movie years after its cancellation. Stranger things have happened.
 

Pluto

Member
It is fanfiction. Just like every other adaptation or continuation without the original creator. Kubrick made a hell of a career out of fanfiction.
Licensed adaptations are not fanfiction, the original creator doesn't have to be involved. Fuller calling the show "fanfiction" is cute but incorrect.
 

Saty

Member
Blah, so Fuller confirms that Belinda scene is a tease for Will and Hannibal being alive. Terrible, pointless tease that distracts from the ending.

Panning over the cliff where Will and Hannibal plunged to their death and ending it there -- that's 'a complete ending'. Putting in a scene after with the only purpose to keep fans' minds spinning 'Oh, they got out alive and have been doing this or that' is not a 'complete ending'. You have simply diluted, detracted and deflated the final moments of the show that you worked on conveying for at least a season just to set up needless 'hooks' that negate the definiteness your 'complete ending' achieved.

Instead of reflecting, analyzing and discussing the ending and everything that happened there, the conversation is now just as much on that tease, on Fuller clearly saying they are alive and did that for Belinda and that if he is to continue the narrative both will be alive.
 
Licensed adaptations are not fanfiction, the original creator doesn't have to be involved. Fuller calling the show "fanfiction" is cute but incorrect.

Not sure what licensed adaptation has to do with anything. That exchange of money has nothing to do with creativity, it's strictly commercial.

I love Bryan Fuller's Hannibal, but it is most assuredly is not Thomas Harris' Hannibal Lecter series. It's a separate thing unto itself. Fuller is a fan playing in a universe that is Harris' original idea that Harris now has no input on. Fanfiction is perfectly appropriate.

And there is nothing wrong with that, humans have been re-telling stories since the telling of the first story. Just because you purchase art, doesn't mean you also purchase the artist's creativity.You don't have the art without the artist.
 

Ashok

Banned
Instead of reflecting, analyzing and discussing the ending and everything that happened there, the conversation is now just as much on that tease, on Fuller clearly saying they are alive and did that for Belinda and that if he is to continue the narrative both will be alive.
Hmmz... I ***LOVED*** the coda. I would have been far less satisfied had the show simply ended at the cliffs. If we were concluding with a full 7 year run, then yes I think the show would have demanded a definitive ending. But as-is, I feel this narrative is still very organic and alive. I sort of view this universe as a never ending story --- at least not until Bryan gets those Clarice rights and can do a proper retelling of Silence of the Lambs --- maybe with a Starz miniseries? In the meantime, even if it's just false hope, I'd rather continue to think about the tease, and dream about what this show can still become.

And who is Belinda?
 

T.O.P

Banned
Fuckin hell, finished it now

I'm at a loss for words, playing Love Crime in the background doesn't help

fuck

giphy.gif
 
Wow, wow, wow. That was about as perfect as a place to end the show as I could have imagined. Those final few moments were so perfect and beautiful and twisted in a way that only Hannibal could be. Exquisite.

Edit: I have to say I really loved that season as a whole. I know lots didn't but damn did I ever. I think I liked the extravagance of the first half of the season most, but the season as a whole was really great. Season 2 is still the most consistent and closest to perfect of the three seasons but season 3 was absolutely wonderful from start to finish for me. Going to miss this show so bad.

:(

iR3LBL2.gif
 

Elchele

Member
Wow, wow, wow. That was about as perfect as a place to end the show as I could have imagined. Those final few moments were so perfect and beautiful and twisted in a way that only Hannibal could be. Exquisite.

Edit: I have to say I really loved that season as a whole. I know lots didn't but damn did I ever. I think I liked the extravagance of the first half of the season most, but the season as a whole was really great. Season 2 is still the most consistent and closest to perfect of the three seasons but season 3 was absolutely wonderful from start to finish for me. Going to miss this show so bad.

:(

iR3LBL2.gif

really? I feel S2 started great but then the filler episode came in and it was so damn shit. S3 was my favorite, so good. Great finale.
 

Moff

Member
I loved seaseon 3, it's my favourite one.
why? less case of the week, more hannibal.
loved the first half in florence, that was just beautiful, best part of the show in my opinion.

the second half dropped off a bit, not enough hannibal, finale was great, though. no surprise, because hannibal had more screentime again.

sad to see the show go, I would have loved to see more, not necessarily SOTL, though, I would have liked to see more original content. that's what the show was best at, anyway.
 

ZeroX03

Banned
Good finale. Preferred S2 overall I think though.

Also in hindsight I think the Red Dragon arch was a bit of a bust. Armitage did fantastic work but they did surprisingly little work fleshing out the character and his backstory and I just filled in the blanks with my own knowledge of the books which made me think it was probably more effective than it was. How do people unfamiliar with the source material feel about him?
 

Ashok

Banned
Edit: I have to say I really loved that season as a whole. I know lots didn't but damn did I ever. I think I liked the extravagance of the first half of the season most, but the season as a whole was really great
You aren't alone. Imho Fuller completely knocked Season 3 out of the park. I loved every bit of it. Florence. The small detour in Lithuania. The Red Dragon arc. The coda. There really isn't any material I could bear to see cut from the show. There aren't many TV shows I really care about anymore but Hannibal S3 (and Mr. Robot S1) have restored my faith that contemporary TV can still be exceptional. Really going to miss this show, but perhaps Season 3 isn't really the end.
 

-griffy-

Banned
Yup, I loved that finale. Probably worked the best of any of the three season enders as a series finale as well, which was fitting. That Bedelia stinger works either way: if the show is truly done then she's finally embraced the madness herself and prepared her own leg, and if the show comes back in some form then Hannibal and/or Will survived the fall Reichenbach Falls-style.

But those final moments were a perfect coda for Hannibal and Will's journey that Bryan Fuller gave us these past three seasons. Hannibal finally "freeing" Will so he can be who truly is, and Will finally letting himself go to that place, but also recognizing how dangerous it is and trying to put an end to it once and for all. I actually got a bit choked up when I realized what was happening when Hannibal grabbed the axe and they started tag-teaming Dolarhyde as the song came in. Then I immediately reflected on how darkly funny that was, an example of just how twisted this show was that I could get emotional at the sight of two messed up men graphically slicing a guy to death in slow motion.

Really loved this Red Dragon arc, agree with Bobby that it's the best adaptation we've gotten of it. Rutina Wesley and Richard Armitage were both great in their roles. The added context of the previous two and a half seasons, with these versions of the characters, made so many moments we've seen multiple times so much more potent then they've ever been in any incarnation before, even the original book. Hell, I even caught the beginning of Silence of the Lambs on TV a few weeks ago, and that was even more potent then when last I'd watched it. Seeing Jack Crawford push Clarice to go meet Hannibal, I was like "You bastard! How could you push a rookie into that situation!? You know exactly what's going to happen!"

I really want to praise the production design of Hannibal's cell. Love what they did with that, and how it constantly communicated the character dynamics whenever that set was used. Instead of going with the layout everyone is familiar with (and that they essentially used for when Will was imprisoned in season 2), they went with something that was visually more interesting but also rich with storytelling. You have the interior of the cell all white, well lit, with clean stainless steel furniture (that is until it's taken away, and the room becomes even more pure and clean). It reflects Hannibal as a character. He is pure in what he is, unashamed and unhidden at this point in the story. When he's punished for helping Dolarhyde and everything is taken away, he loses any objects to obstruct or hide him from view, suggesting he's even more exposing himself to those who visit him.

Then you look at the visitor side and it's dark, the lighting not nearly as bright. Everyone who visits Hannibal has darkness in them, some demons they haven't yet overcome and may be hiding from the world, contrary to Hannibal's open evil. More than that though, the brightly lit interior and dark exterior, paired with the position of the entrance to the room and the glass cell wall, mean the reflections tell even more of the story. Any time someone enters or exits the room, there is a reflection of Hannibal hanging over them, a specter haunting them, Hannibal's presence leaving with them. When a character is talking to him, the camera positions itself so Hannibal's reflection lands right over them, as if he is imprinting his madness directly on them.

This holds for nearly every character who meets him, that is except for Will. We see a two shot of both men in profile, positioned outside the cell rather than inside, putting Wil's reflection imprinted on top of Hannibal. It evokes all those trippy transitions of Will's face dissolving into Hannibal's throughout the series, and really encapsulates their entire relationship, especially where the finale ends. This is the kind of stuff that makes a TV show special, and it's why this is certainly going to go down as one of my favorite shows of all time.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
But those final moments were a perfect coda for Hannibal and Will's journey that Bryan Fuller gave us these past three seasons. Hannibal finally "freeing" Will so he can be who truly is, and Will finally letting himself go to that place, but also recognizing how dangerous it is and trying to put an end to it once and for all. I actually got a bit choked up when I realized what was happening when Hannibal grabbed the axe and they started tag-teaming Dolarhyde as the song came in. Then I immediately reflected on how darkly funny that was, an example of just how twisted this show was that I could get emotional at the sight of two messed up men graphically slicing a guy to death in slow motion.

That scene was hilariously amazing. But another aspect is that the show managed to elevate "The Red Dragon" from being this random psycho to instead being Will's "becoming". I love that they did something fantastically different with the character's demise and overall enjoyed it immensely over the film, even if they did chop up the iconic "I am the dragon, before me you tremble."

If that is the series finale and there is never a continuation, I'm okay with that. This season was filmed almost perfectly as if Fuller knew it was going to be cancelled. He got his artsy stuff in the first half and his "lets get real" stuff in the second half. I'm just glad we got the lab techs back in for the final episode.

That all said, fuck this shot:
M4WF7g6.gif


I hate shots like this, it looks so damn artificial. Around the end of season 2 of Heroes (post writers strike) they began doing shots like this and would use them all the damn time. I think it looks so bad, as if Will is in front of a green screen. I think it's an anomaly in a sea of beautifully filmed tv.


That ending was amazing hahaha
 

Blader

Member
Blah, so Fuller confirms that Belinda scene is a tease for Will and Hannibal being alive. Terrible, pointless tease that distracts from the ending.

Panning over the cliff where Will and Hannibal plunged to their death and ending it there -- that's 'a complete ending'. Putting in a scene after with the only purpose to keep fans' minds spinning 'Oh, they got out alive and have been doing this or that' is not a 'complete ending'. You have simply diluted, detracted and deflated the final moments of the show that you worked on conveying for at least a season just to set up needless 'hooks' that negate the definiteness your 'complete ending' achieved.

Instead of reflecting, analyzing and discussing the ending and everything that happened there, the conversation is now just as much on that tease, on Fuller clearly saying they are alive and did that for Belinda and that if he is to continue the narrative both will be alive.

Yeah, seriously. "It's great that you can look at this episode as a complete ending for the story. Now allow me to ruin that for you!"
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
Yeah, seriously. "It's great that you can look at this episode as a complete ending for the story. Now allow me to ruin that for you!"

Sucks as a fan to be teased like that, he could easily have said "ta-da, it's over!" But it's kind of cool that as the creator he's sticking to his guns, keeping a sense of artistic integrity, and saying that the story he envisioned isn't over.

Will a continuation ever be funded? Who knows. Luckily "head canon" is a thing.
 
Will a continuation ever be funded? Who knows.

I'm gonna say no

He's going into American Gods
He knows he wants to do Star Trek the instant it becomes available (should be soon)
Mads Mikkelsen is a very busy actor
Laurence Fishburne is a very busy actor
Nobody watched this show in the first place.

The further away we get from this finale, the less likely anyone is going to give DeLaurentiis any money to continue on from it, and the less likely anyone who worked on it is going to have a clear enough schedule to come back to it. The most attention this show's gotten in the last 2 years were the cancellation articles that came out via what appears to be the majority of it's viewerbase: TV Critics.

He knows what the deal is, he's just trying to make the right noises for hopeful fans, as if that's actually going to help them.

The Bedelia stinger is just indulgence. But then again - that's Hannibal, aint it?
 

-griffy-

Banned
That all said, fuck this shot:
M4WF7g6.gif


I hate shots like this, it looks so damn artificial. Around the end of season 2 of Heroes (post writers strike) they began doing shots like this and would use them all the damn time. I think it looks so bad, as if Will is in front of a green screen. I think it's an anomaly in a sea of beautifully filmed tv.
There are actually lenses that do this, to allow different focus points on either half of the screen, so there may be nothing effects wise going on there. The easier way though would be to do the shot and focus on Will, then do it again and focus on Bedelia, then a feathered split in the middle to combine the two shots. No green screen needed.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
There are actually lenses that do this, to allow different focus points on either half of the screen, so there may be nothing effects wise going on there. The easier way though would be to do the shot and focus on Will, then do it again and focus on Bedelia, then a feathered split in the middle to combine the two shots. No green screen needed.

Ya, I know it's not an effect and just a lens but something about that kind of shot just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it's just years of Heroes doing it and I inherently just dislike it.

I'm gonna say no
...

Ya.

Ky81huh.gif


I came to terms with that. It would have to be a Twins Peaks-esque years down the line kind of thing.
 
I came to terms with that. It would have to be a Twins Peaks-esque years down the line kind of thing.

Yeah, I bet that sort of thing keeps a little fire burning in Fuller's heart as well. But Twin Peaks had the advantage of being really popular, too. You can leverage a significant audience base. Hannibal's never had that. We get four or five years away from this, it becomes a lot harder to convince someone to spend the money needed to revive a show that had about 600k viewers when it died.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
I think we're past the point of the rules of cancellation applying, especially for shows that are beloved by small but rapid fanbases.

We were talking about this last night and it's like... Yeah. Twin Peaks is coming back. Arrested came back. I wouldn't be surprised if something like Firefly ever came back, you know (though there's a rights issue there). I could even see a Happy Endings coming back. 1, 5, 10 years, who knows. It seems harder than before for the dead to be dead.

But American Gods will be great.
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
Yeah, I bet that sort of thing keeps a little fire burning in Fuller's heart as well. But Twin Peaks had the advantage of being really popular, too. You can leverage a significant audience base. Hannibal's never had that. We get four or five years away from this, it becomes a lot harder to convince someone to spend the money needed to revive a show that had about 600k viewers when it died.

I honestly think the folly lies with the Amazon Prime deal. If it showed up Netflix the show would've been a hit. Everyone I know says the same thing when I express my love of the show to them, "Is it on Netflix?"
 

ivysaur12

Banned
I honestly think the folly lies with the Amazon Prime deal. If it showed up Netflix the show would've been a hit. Everyone I know says the same thing when I express my love of the show to them, "Is it on Netflix?"

It would not have. I just don't think it's the type of show that ever would have mass appeal, and we were lucky to get 3 seasons. #blessed, even.
 
Everyone I know says the same thing when I express my love of the show to them, "Is it on Netflix?"

Yeah, a lot of people simply shorthand 'streaming video' to "Netflix," which is huge. If you're not on Netflix, people just sorta assume you're not available, period.

I don't know that the show would have been a hit, but I do think the big value wasn't even necessarily the audience base (which is tiny) but the heat the show brings, due to its audience base being very vocal (and apparently mostly TV writers). Hosting Hannibal gets you written about. But that sort of heat is pretty much already gone, and I don't see rekindling it being a particularly easy thing, either. Especially not in another four or five years. Arrested Development was lucky enough to have murdered in DVD sales when TV on DVD was a big thing. Hannibal's never had that. It just never attained the level of acceptance that would cause someone to go "sure, spend the money, let's bring that back!" I don't think.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Arrested coming back was much less about DVD sales and much more about Netflix making a very smart decision that bringing back a critical darling would get it a lot of press. Luckily, House of Cards and Orange is the New Black did as well, but Arrested served a purpose.

If Overstock.com wants to get into the original series game, all bets are off!!
 
Arrested coming back was much less about DVD sales and much more about Netflix making a very smart decision that bringing back a critical darling would get it a lot of press.

No doubt, but I also think the proof that there was a larger audience than previously thought (and an audience that proved they were willing to spend north of 60 bucks on the show) helped quite a bit. That's part of the reason Firefly was consistently mentioned as a possibility for returning (even after the movie did nothing) - yeah, it was a critical darling as well, but it was also a proven moneymaker on the DVD side. The audience wasn't big, but it was bigger than previously thought, and it was an audience that wasn't afraid to spend a fair amount of money. That's gotta be somewhat of a factor for a subscription based service.

So far as I can tell - Hannibal doesn't have that. I don't know that Hannibal is going to have that between now and 2020 or whenever.

It'd be fucking awesome to have to eat crow on this though. I'd dig in gladly.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
No doubt, but I also think the proof that there was a larger audience than previously thought (and an audience that proved they were willing to spend north of 60 bucks on the show) helped quite a bit. That's part of the reason Firefly was consistently mentioned as a possibility for returning (even after the movie did nothing) - yeah, it was a critical darling as well, but it was also a proven moneymaker on the DVD side. The audience wasn't big, but it was bigger than previously thought, and it was an audience that wasn't afraid to spend a fair amount of money. That's gotta be somewhat of a factor for a subscription based service.

So far as I can tell - Hannibal doesn't have that. I don't know that Hannibal is going to have that between now and 2020 or whenever.

It'd be fucking awesome to have to eat crow on this though. I'd dig in gladly.

Even though I don't think DVD sales untimately helped Arrested, I do think Hannibal does have something more analogous to a potential streaming service once the Amazon deal sunsets -- piracy numbers. It's not analogous, but neither is DVD sales.

Either way, I don't think it's likely Hannibal will come back but I also think weirder things have happened.
 
I do think Hannibal does have something more analogous to a potential streaming service once the Amazon deal sunsets -- piracy numbers. It's not analogous, but neither is DVD sales.

That's a really good point. I wouldn't be surprised if the people using the free rental promotion at various pirate based online video stores equals, if not surpasses, the legitimate viewers.
 

Sober

Member
I think we're past the point of the rules of cancellation applying, especially for shows that are beloved by small but rapid fanbases.

We were talking about this last night and it's like... Yeah. Twin Peaks is coming back. Arrested came back. I wouldn't be surprised if something like Firefly ever came back, you know (though there's a rights issue there). I could even see a Happy Endings coming back. 1, 5, 10 years, who knows. It seems harder than before for the dead to be dead.

But American Gods will be great.
Hannibal Lecter is alive and posting on GAF, fucking with everyone's minds just to see what will happen.

<3
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
It is fanfiction. Just like every other adaptation or continuation without the original creator. Kubrick made a hell of a career out of fanfiction.

Exactly. And it's cool as heck that he's so unashamedly vocal about it.

Not sure what licensed adaptation has to do with anything. That exchange of money has nothing to do with creativity, it's strictly commercial.

I love Bryan Fuller's Hannibal, but it is most assuredly is not Thomas Harris' Hannibal Lecter series. It's a separate thing unto itself. Fuller is a fan playing in a universe that is Harris' original idea that Harris now has no input on. Fanfiction is perfectly appropriate.

And there is nothing wrong with that, humans have been re-telling stories since the telling of the first story. Just because you purchase art, doesn't mean you also purchase the artist's creativity.You don't have the art without the artist.

Well said.
 
I don't know if Vistra's interpretation actually works unless you're willing to ignore the fact that "fan-fiction" inherently carries with it a negative, amateur connotation.

It's not fan-fiction. It's an adaptation. Adaptations aren't synonymous with fan-fiction at all. The two terms aren't interchangeable. Besides which: his fandom isn't why the show works the way it does. It's not his fandom that caused the show to look the way it does, to sound the way it does, or to play the way it does. His fandom has nothing to do with the decisions the actors made on set, or the lines his writers gave those characters to deliver.

He calls it "fan-fiction" because he's charming and self-deprecating and has a good sense of humor about himself. But that doesn't make the work fan-fiction. It also doesn't erase the negative connotation from the term "fan-fiction," either.
 
I don't know if Vistra's interpretation actually works unless you're willing to ignore the fact that "fan-fiction" inherently carries with it a negative, amateur connotation.

It's not fan-fiction. It's an adaptation. Adaptations aren't synonymous with fan-fiction at all. The two terms aren't interchangeable. Besides which: his fandom isn't why the show works the way it does. It's not his fandom that caused the show to look the way it does, to sound the way it does, or to play the way it does. His fandom has nothing to do with the decisions the actors made on set, or the lines his writers gave those characters to deliver.

He calls it "fan-fiction" because he's charming and self-deprecating and has a good sense of humor about himself. But that doesn't make the work fan-fiction. It also doesn't erase the negative connotation from the term "fan-fiction," either.

What do connotations have to do with anything? That's a societal issue and a lot of fan fiction is celebrated now anyway (i.e. Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality). Connotations are a public perception thing, which doesn't really define what something is because it can change.

It's bizarre that the the only things separating Fuller's Hannibal and Yudkowsky's Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is an exchange of money and some sort of indefinable idea that people see fanfiction as a "negative". They are both playing in a world they did not originate but clearly have an affection for, have heavily diverted from the source, and produced something uniquely their own.

As far as being an amateur goes, everyone is one until they are a professional. And it has practically nothing to do with creativity. We could technically consider Van Gogh or Kafka amateurs.

Not every adaptation has to be fanfiction, I suppose, but I would hope one would have some affection for the story they are retelling.
 
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