Radical_3d
Member
My bad for saying title instead of game.
Has Sony lost its technical edge this generation?
- Thread starter SuperC
- Start date
mrMUR_96
Member
Returnal was amazing, it's exactly stuff like this that sony has done a poor job this generation on. Fresh and original high quality games. It's mostly just been mediocre cross gen stuff or remakes.
mrMUR_96
Member
It's literally a game though. You can argue about scope and gameplay features, but in terms of real time visuals it's a step above just about anything else this gen so far. GTA 6 looks amazing though.
Bojji
Gold Member
The best looking, best looking? Hellblade 2 probably, it has very high quality everywhere.
Most impressive overall (scale + scale): probably AC Shadows on PS5 Pro.
But I think Demon's Souls is still in top 5 - 2020 game on proprietary BP engine. It's sad that Sony never released anything better so far...
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Radical_3d
Member
It's hardly a game, and even so is a tad blurry for my taste. The engine is trying to bite more than it can chew.
Nah, Demon's Souls looks better, I just finished hellblade yesterday, not even to say that it's hardly a game. And it only looks good when there is nothing but rocks on the screen. Add foliage and it's a smeared blurry mess.
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Radical_3d
Member
Then Sony hasn't lost its touch in technology. They loose touch in what games to ship. (The Pro is almost a next gen console in terms of feature set so Shadows doesn't count).
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mrMUR_96
Member
It's shocking how well Demon's souls holds up still, very very impressive game. I'd still say HB2 looks better, their character rendering is just absurdly good.
Bojji
Gold Member
Radical_3d
Member
We already know that next gen is going to be basically the nVidia feature set with a better CPU.That Pro and next gen:
Ah yes death stranding the game that came out by the late end of the PS5 generation and trades blows with forbidden West a launch title on the PS5 which was made with the PS4 1.8hz jaguars and 1.8 tflop gpu in mind. It brought absolutely no advancements using decima at all over a cross gen launch title and you use it as your argument for it being the technical cream of the crop
Madserb2023
Member
I would say that Sony is still technically competent. PS5 exclusives look and run well for the most part. I think the lack of a big Naughty Dog game which tend to look better due to their linear nature had perhaps given the perception that technically Sony is behind. However, I think nostalgia is the problem here because Sony didn't have the technical edge in tbe first place.
Bojji
Gold Member
And better GPU, much better. PS6 is rumored to be between 9070XT and 5080. That's 2x PS5 Pro almost.
If you don't like Pro version in the list:
- 40fps ACS on PS5
GTA6 will most likely destroy everything that came before and it will be 40fps MAX.
Without a shadow of a doubt, the launch titles on the console demons souls and ratchet are pretty much the best showcases on the console to this day which is absolutely pathetic. Nearly all of their first party games have been nothing but lazy crossgen pipelines with settings pushed from medium to high. It's literally their PS4 gen pipeline with settings turned up slightly and a 60fps sticker hit on top. None outside of ratchet even used the consoles biggest touted strength the SSD.
If you told me this was going to Sonys technical best this gen before launch I would have laughed at you. Meanwhile studios with a quarter of the budget have embarrassed their first party studios showing ambition like the crimson desert devs etc hell even Ubisoft showed them how it's done and made their current big release yotei look like a last gen game (which it is outside of improved draw distance).
They wasted all of their resources on the gas push and when that went to shit basically told their devs to phone in their budgets and tech and release the safest bare minimum tech and just make it have a 60fps mode for the stans and media to lapup. I mean just look at what the same devs did with a pathetic CPU and a 1.8 tflop amd GPU last gen and you know deep down they can do so much more.
If you told me this was going to Sonys technical best this gen before launch I would have laughed at you. Meanwhile studios with a quarter of the budget have embarrassed their first party studios showing ambition like the crimson desert devs etc hell even Ubisoft showed them how it's done and made their current big release yotei look like a last gen game (which it is outside of improved draw distance).
They wasted all of their resources on the gas push and when that went to shit basically told their devs to phone in their budgets and tech and release the safest bare minimum tech and just make it have a 60fps mode for the stans and media to lapup. I mean just look at what the same devs did with a pathetic CPU and a 1.8 tflop amd GPU last gen and you know deep down they can do so much more.
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Radical_3d
Member
If it runs at 40 then it doesn't runs well. That goes for both ACS and GTA 6. We'll see what's next for Sony after Demons Souls (let's set Marathon and Fairgames aside please…)
Bojji
Gold Member
Anything from BP games is still years always thanks to that GaaS fiasco.
First list games recommended on technical merit in your subjective opinion
Then change criteria to compare games to previous outtings not individual technical merit like above.
Shame the need to troll to make a point. Hellblade II looks visually great but Death Stranding 2 easily looks as good or better within a vast open world running 60fps for launch. How is that not a technical edge? GT7 in VR is a great technical achievement who else is anywhere close on console?
Im glad Sony doesn't obsess about every game having the latest buzzword graphics technology and allows its studios to build game engines suited to each developers needs with focus on different technical goals.
This gen is also not over yet, still a number of studios to release their true nextgen games.
Radical_3d
Member
Yes. We'll see Intergalactic first, and before that Yotei, that is what I think you can realistically do with a PS5 at 60fps and an open world.
Msamy
Member
Definitely they lead by a cunt who didn't care about anything other than live service games add that to some of the laziest developers on the industry who didnt even able to add RTGI or even software dynamic light to any of their released games and expect insomniac all their games didn't try to implement any RT Features, honestly they didn't deserve anything other than fuc. to all of them
Killjoy-NL
Member
The fact that you point out how many areas there are where non-Sony studios are "pushing ahead visually", yet when you see games side-by-side it's like there's barely any noticeable difference visually, only shows how diminishing returns go for all studios and all platforms and how we've come at a point where differenxe between any platform has become negligible visually.
The only cases where there is a real noticeable difference is in a game like Cyberpunk where PC has RTGI and consoles do not.
Msamy
Member
Or need to get fuc.ed
mrMUR_96
Member
I would say the main issue in not using this newer tech is because of consistency. Games like Horizon, DS2 etc can look amazing in the right scenarios, but then the time of day changes or you enter a different area and the lighting falls apart and looks flat or you look over a vista and see really low detail assets. RTGI and improved geometry tech would help to avoid this. I'm not saying games this generation look bad, it's just a shame because they could look even better and more importantly more consistently good.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It can run at 30 and still run well. What are you expecting from a 6-year-old CPU and a GPU whose power level we've had for 5 years? 7 in the case of the base PS5. If the game looks leaps and bounds beyond anything, it running at a lock 30 with good frame pacing counts as running well.
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Radical_3d
Member
Fair enough, but ACS doesn't looks leaps and bounds beyond anything. GTA does.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Thats the point of the thread.
A Ubi game looks like that these days. Their engine has latest feature set. Same for UE5 and id Tech.
Ghost of Yotie, Demons Souls etc while look good, are not using any latest tech. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. Nintendo uses a couple of gens older tech
MikeM
Member
Bruh really?
Didn't Wukong rely on frame gen standard to run at 60ish FPS?
Cyberpunk on console is nothing compared to PC. A bit of an odd example.
Hellblade 2 is basically an interactive movie.
Halo a showcase???
In my eyes, HFW, GT7 and GoWR are all quite a bit ahead of your examples. All look, play and run fantastic and exceed 60fps in VRR modes.
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Hector Hall
Member
Diminishing returns are here since a while. PS4 gen managed still to have a jump with the improved HQ and graphic effects, but raising the budgets to 150 to 200M to make it visible. For PS5 it would be even more expensive, and for a marginal gain.
Still, this affects everybody, not just Sony. Or are you telling me the Xbox or PC centric developers are pushing the limits
?
I would say Horizon FW, Ratchet and Clank, Stellar Blade, Demons Souls, Spiderman 2, Death Stranding 2, GOW Ragnarok, Ghost of Yotei , Gran Turismo 7, Astro Bot are indeed state of the art games from a technical standpoint. Hell, even Returnal, Helldivers 2, Horizon ZD remake or TLOU1 are remarkable. That a lesser version of some of them runs on PS4 doesn't matter in a world where Cyberpunk runs on Switch 2 and Wukong on Series S.
As for the first party output, yes we can argue it has been somewhat worse, but those long development cycles are affecting everyone. The output of Xbox minus the buyout games would be nearly zero these years, and Nintendo will have increasing problems going forward to have FHD or 4K content going on.
The thing that makes it look even worse is that somehow the haters have decided that GAS games don't count, MLBA doesn't count, games with PS4 version don't count, games with PC port years later don't count, externally developed games don't count, remaster/remakes don't count, PlayStation Hero games don't count, Sony not retaining the IP games don't count, and so on.
That many PS4 games were externally developed (Detroit Become Human, Spiderman, Alienation, Resogun, Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian was finished outside, Shadow of Colossus, Death Stranding 1), had PC ports years after (Detroit, Helldivers 1) or Sony didn't keep the IP down the road doesnt seem to matter.
Funny thing is they use all that to say PS5 has no gamez, when if those arguments were used in their favorite platform we could see that
1) Internal games developed have been Halo Infinite, FH5 and FM wich had Xbox One version save one.
2) Many ports/remakes
3) All Day One on PC, and now even PlayStation and rumors on Switch 2 too..
4)Zenimax and ABK titles in development since way before the buyouts heralded as sign of the good handling of internal studios by MS Gaming Studios while games are canceled right and left and some studios closed or downsized. But eh, don't forget, it's PlayStation who has no gamez
Still, this affects everybody, not just Sony. Or are you telling me the Xbox or PC centric developers are pushing the limits
? I would say Horizon FW, Ratchet and Clank, Stellar Blade, Demons Souls, Spiderman 2, Death Stranding 2, GOW Ragnarok, Ghost of Yotei , Gran Turismo 7, Astro Bot are indeed state of the art games from a technical standpoint. Hell, even Returnal, Helldivers 2, Horizon ZD remake or TLOU1 are remarkable. That a lesser version of some of them runs on PS4 doesn't matter in a world where Cyberpunk runs on Switch 2 and Wukong on Series S.
As for the first party output, yes we can argue it has been somewhat worse, but those long development cycles are affecting everyone. The output of Xbox minus the buyout games would be nearly zero these years, and Nintendo will have increasing problems going forward to have FHD or 4K content going on.
The thing that makes it look even worse is that somehow the haters have decided that GAS games don't count, MLBA doesn't count, games with PS4 version don't count, games with PC port years later don't count, externally developed games don't count, remaster/remakes don't count, PlayStation Hero games don't count, Sony not retaining the IP games don't count, and so on.
That many PS4 games were externally developed (Detroit Become Human, Spiderman, Alienation, Resogun, Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian was finished outside, Shadow of Colossus, Death Stranding 1), had PC ports years after (Detroit, Helldivers 1) or Sony didn't keep the IP down the road doesnt seem to matter.
Funny thing is they use all that to say PS5 has no gamez, when if those arguments were used in their favorite platform we could see that
1) Internal games developed have been Halo Infinite, FH5 and FM wich had Xbox One version save one.
2) Many ports/remakes
3) All Day One on PC, and now even PlayStation and rumors on Switch 2 too..
4)Zenimax and ABK titles in development since way before the buyouts heralded as sign of the good handling of internal studios by MS Gaming Studios while games are canceled right and left and some studios closed or downsized. But eh, don't forget, it's PlayStation who has no gamez
Radical_3d
Member
You can't have the last feature set if you want 60fps on base consoles (and not looking like someone is spreading the image like butter on your TV). That's a technical decision, not loosing the edge. And this gen has spoiled me for 60fps modes. I prefer that the top tier engineers that gave us so much in the past generations at Sony keep that scope in mind and don't sacrifice that target for "in this wall in real life light doesn't bounce like this".
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Death Stranding 2:Ah yes death stranding the game that came out by the late end of the PS5 generation and trades blows with forbidden West a launch title on the PS5 which was made with the PS4 1.8hz jaguars and 1.8 tflop gpu in mind. It brought absolutely no advancements using decima at all over a cross gen launch title and you use it as your argument for it being the technical cream of the crop
Msamy
Member
You could got different modes one without rt features at 60 fps and one with it at 30 like many games did, there are no excuse for laziness they don't even try, they take a safe road give people bullshit looking titles then said it's because of 60fps
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Radical_3d
Member
I'm not arguing with people that calls Yotei BS looking games.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I mean nothing he said was wrong, so predicting people would spit out facts is like someone saying the earth is round and you going OMG YOU WERE RIGHT!
Literally a fact.
Also true.
So a guy likes a game but points out its not a sony first party game which it isnt is bad?
Subjective. I didnt have a lot of fun with Astrobot because its literally the most basic platformer ive ever played but someone saying they liked it is bad because? And demon souls remake is literally running a ps3 game underneath.
Literally the premise of the thread agreed upon by virtually half the thread. And a 100% true if you look at the fact that all but one of their studios have skipped Ray tracing, mesh shaders, and SSD enhancements. And that studio has only embraced RT reflections.
vaibhavpisal
Member
What about Nanite?
Some similar advancement that will make world look far more detailed than rocks they have in Yotie.
While benefits of RT is questionable, same cannot be said about tech that offers leading LOD. It should allow for 60 fps.
Msamy
Member
Yes it's clear bullshit looking
Sethbacca
Member
Diminishing returns should in theory allow devs to back off art and assets and start focusing on other aspects of the experience, but we'll see if that happens.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I would say Horizon looks amazing 60% of the time. It's major issues are draw distance which are covered by fog, but apparent when you are flying around, and some really bad looking rocks and mountains. Otherwise, it looks great a vast majority of the time.
DS2? maybe 10% of the time in the mountains covered in snow. Otherwise, it looks way worse than HFW and consistently so. People are getting fooled by cutscenes which look next gen.
Ratchet looks next gen around 70% of the time with some open world levels not looking so great but thats ok, plenty of next gen showstoppers dont look great a 100% of the time. Now spiderman 2? It's last gen through and through like DS2.
The fact that Demon Souls, Ratchet and HFW, games that came out within 16 months of the PS5 launching look better than games coming out at the end of year 5 shows they have technically stagnated. Yet you have people defending this.
Baemono
Gold Member
There were a lot of wrong stuff. I show PS5 games, he says "yeah but these doesn't count cause of specific reasons I invented", so it is easy to say "well, if you exclude the games, there is no game, case and point". Yeah, no, I don't buy it.
diffusionx
Gold Member
diminishing returns kicked in a long time ago, you have early PS4 games like DriveClub and The Order that still hold up despite the 30fps and 1080p.
MisterXDTV
Member
Lost to whom exactly?
Radical_3d
Member
Having double the frames is just so good… on a slow paced game (I haven't play one of those in a while) I can bear with it. But with the age I've become more sensible to frames (me, who started with a handful of them in the Saturn's WipEout). That said Yotei is insanely detailed, just with vegetation instead of the usual UE5 rocks. Those being interactive to the characters and the wind system ads to the usual rock experience that, on the other hand, you can have with death stranding, for example. And yes, I hate popping but not so much to sacrifice 60fps on a hand combat game. I'll be glad to embrace virtualised geometry the next generation.
That is from a technical standpoint because if they can make good games in a narrower scope (let's see how Silent Hill f fares) I'd take those over the best open world games. And in that regard yes, Demon's Souls has been left behind something like SH f if that one can put more than a couple of enemies in the screen.
Fuck open world games.
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yurinka
Member
No, games like Demon's Souls remake, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, God of War Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West, Gran Turismo 7, Spider-Man 2 or Death Stranding 2 were top tier tech wise when released. Next question.
Bojji
Gold Member
Yotei is basically a PS4 game. It's not hard to do open world 60fps on PS5 when you are not going to use any advanced lighting in it.
Everyone. In PS3 and PS4 gen Sony was in the top 3 (maybe even number 1) on consoles when it comes to graphics.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Exactly
This
Has me more hyped in its little finger than years of high graphic fidelity open worlds Sony has made. I can't believe they closed that studio, fucking imbeciles
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yurinka
Member
Team Asobi, XDEV, Housemarque and Firesprite should be in the list too.
Bend and Naughty Dog are the only ones who didn't release any new game. But both got their games ported to PC this gen with the help of external teams, in case of Bend they did work as support team in Horizon Forbidden West and Death Stranding + DSDC, and ND was involved in remasters/remakes.
There's Media Molecule and Sucker Punch too, who in the same way ND released TLOU2 just before the start of the generation, they also released their previous game that same year.
ND is working in minimum 2 non-GaaS SP games. SSM, Insomniac, Housemarque, Firesprite, Team Asobi, Kojipro, Sucker Punch or Guerrilla are working in non-GaaS SP games too.
The GaaS push is an investment with related acquisitions and hirings on top of the what they already had, didn't replace anything.
As far as I know, to Cyberpunk when running in a GPU that costs way more than a PS console. That's all.
The extra investment of their GaaS push didn't replace their investment in non-GaaS titles, which also increased (but less than GaaS).
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diffusionx
Gold Member
hopefully it will be goodd when it comes out in 2032.
yurinka
Member
Sony broke their own fastest selling ales records with new titles released in 2020, 2022, 2023 and 2024.
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