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[InterMusketeer]

Why would anyone want a damsel in distress character these days? They are so boring.

The damsel is just a supporting character. It's not a huge deal if they're underdeveloped, though it is preferable if there's more to them. The modern strong female trope takes front and center in media, ruining them with how unlikable and predictable they are. That's a much bigger issue than a boring damsel in distress.

 

[nikolino840]

This movie is valid?

 

[Stinkbug]

Seems like that would be more empowering to women, which is a good thing. I think encouraging positive societal ideals is more important than reflecting reality, in fiction. If there was totally made up stories, unrealistically purporting women as gigachads in 'nonfiction', I'd be against that. Also powerful women do exist in real life. There are a lot of movies, so I'd imagine there are still damsel in distress movies being made, if that's what you're looking for. also i've found that amazon prime video has a lot of super low budget movies, some of which are pretty good, if you're looking for obscure movies

 

[Saber]

It's not that we have good/awesome female characters. It's just that nowadays they don't know how to make good female characters, because the writting is way too putrit. Which ends up making female characters more like Mary-sues.

Thats why I agree with Fbh . Characters must have flaws, and this has nothing to do with their genders.

Sarah Connor is a prime example of that. She is the most competent badass female character ever created, but she has flaws and make mistakes. The Terminator itself has flaws, everyone has flaws.

 

[FunkMiller]

Strong female characters are not a problem.

Characters that have absolutely zero growth are the problem.

 

[chromhound]

there's a lot of strong female characters they're in shitty movies/poorly written films

 

[AV]

Peter Parker was still saving Mary Jane as recently as last year. The damsel trope's not gone anywhere, people are just doing more inventive things with it - which I won't post here, because it'll spoil two movies.

 

[Kamina]

Why would anyone want a damsel in distress character these days? They are so boring.

There is more than just those two extremes.

 

[CosmicComet]

Xena is not really a good example to show "See? This has always existed!"

She existed in the same universe as Kevin Sorbo's Hercules and while she was always formidable in her own right she was a normal person and never on his level.

Nowadays the idea that a woman could be anything less than 3 times stronger and a better fighter than a man no matter the size difference is considered sexist by western feminist writers.

In reality, a top rank female power lifter puts up numbers comparable to rank 6000 male lifters, even while being heavier than said male lifters.

Always get a chuckle out of me how inorganic that type of writing is. Not that there can't be powerful female characters above males of course, especially in highly fantastical settings that eschew basic biology, but you can't ask me to suspend disbelief of basic sexual dimorphism in a 'grounded', 'gritty' setting like Walking Dead or Last of Us, military type settings etc.

 

[Doom85]

Always get a chuckle out of me how inorganic that type of writing is. Not that there can't be powerful female characters above males of course, especially in highly fantastical settings that eschew basic biology, but you can't ask me to suspend disbelief of basic sexual dimorphism in a 'grounded', 'gritty' setting like Walking Dead or Last of Us, military type settings etc.

My problem with this argument is that many of you ARE willing to suspend disbelief on things that should kill or significantly hinder a MC yet doesn’t. I’ve not watched them but I am aware there are videos on all the Die Hard films and how many times John should have either died or at least been far more significantly hurt than he was, and of course he’s hardly the only one when it comes to action films. And this applies to TLOU too, only one of Joel’s injuries is taken seriously in the story, yet in the game he’s taking countless bullets and such and ”dealing with them” by simply wrapping some bandages around the wound.

I‘m not saying one can’t suspend disbelief for that, BUT if the argument against a woman being stronger than a man ultimately boils down to “realism”, well then why is the above perfectly acceptable? It’s an annoying double standard to me.

 

[JonnieJiggles]

I think the key problem is not strong female characters (no one was moaning about Sarah Conner, Ripley or Xena) but how unpleasant most of them are these days.

It's the constant put downs of men, the current of vindictiveness, resentment and spite that characterises most of these 'strong women'. In reality they are often toxic bullies that you would never want to know in real life.

If Hollywood can drop the misandry and go back to creating characters that people actually want to watch (which I think they will) then things should level out.

At this time in history, I’d say more so now than the last twenty years, women have every right to be resentful and vindictive. Would seem the female characters in movies are a reflection of what’s going on in society.

 

[M1chl]

I liked the Lou movie on Netflix I felt there the strong female character worked really well. It's no high budget movie, but it's worth a watch.

 

[CosmicComet]

My problem with this argument is that many of you ARE willing to suspend disbelief on things that should kill or significantly hinder a MC yet doesn’t. I’ve not watched them but I am aware there are videos on all the Die Hard films and how many times John should have either died or at least been far more significantly hurt than he was, and of course he’s hardly the only one when it comes to action films. And this applies to TLOU too, only one of Joel’s injuries is taken seriously in the story, yet in the game he’s taking countless bullets and such and ”dealing with them” by simply wrapping some bandages around the wound.

I‘m not saying one can’t suspend disbelief for that, BUT if the argument against a woman being stronger than a man ultimately boils down to “realism”, well then why is the above perfectly acceptable? It’s an annoying double standard to me.

Jesus Christ.

Firstly, don't be foolish enough to conflate gameplay damage to things that happen in cutscenes.

There is a thing called ludonarrative dissonance.

Joel does not get shot constantly and just get patched up with bandages. Never happens in the actual story.

And as for Die Hard, yes there are countless pulp comic book style over the top action movies where people do things that are maybe just a single order of magnitude impossible for an actual person to do.

Movies would be boring without a level of artistic license. Story telling in general has had similar, mildly superhuman feats since time immemorial.

However, if John McClane's daughter or wife was somehow with him during his 'adventures' and performing all the same feats he was but performing them way better than he was, you can't tell me that wouldn't be laughable BS though.

Especially as you would naturally assume that even despite some breaks from normal human limitations, everything else still works the same as reality does.

 

[Doom85]

Jesus Christ.

Firstly, don't be foolish enough to conflate gameplay damage to things that happen in cutscenes.

There is a thing called ludonarrative dissonance.

Joel does not get shot constantly and just get patched up with bandages. Never happens in the actual story.

And as for Die Hard, yes there are countless pulp comic book style over the top action movies where people do things that are maybe just a single order of magnitude impossible for an actual person to do.

Movies would be boring without a level of artistic license. Story telling in general has had even mildly superhuman feats since time immemorial.

However, if John McClane's daughter or wife was somehow with him during his 'adventures' and performing all the same feats he was but performing them way better than he was, you can't tell me that wouldn't be laughable BS though.

Especially as you would naturally assume that even despite some breaks from normal human limitations, everything else still works the same as reality does.

If something “breaks reality”, then that’s what it is doing, don’t sugarcoat it. You’re just choosing to accept one over another purely on the argument of “fun”. Well, hate to break it to you, but others might dare to consider a female character being stronger than a male character “fun”. So there’s nothing inherently superior about one break of reality over another, as you flat out admitted this is all due to your own personal bias of what constitutes “fun” and nothing more.

 

[CosmicComet]

At this time in history, I’d say more so now than the last twenty years, women have every right to be resentful and vindictive. Would seem the female characters in movies are a reflection of what’s going on in society.

What's going on in society is that women are more coddled, protected and privileged than men of equal circumstances.

If something “breaks reality”, then that’s what it is doing, don’t sugarcoat it. You’re just choosing to accept one over another purely on the argument of “fun”. Well, hate to break it to you, but others might dare to consider a female character being stronger than a male character “fun”. So there’s nothing inherently superior about one break of reality over another, as you flat out admitted this is all due to your own personal bias of what constitutes “fun” and nothing more.

'

I don't really care what you like, tbh.

And looks like you dropped the shitty Joel argument altogether.

And notice, I never said I had anything against female characters doing 'super human' things while being explicitly 'normal' either. Xena and John McClane are very much the same in that regard.

What is a very new phenomenon as of late is a cringe, politically driven motive to have female characters constantly show up male characters by leaps and bounds in all physical and mental capacities and trying to paint it as though its representative of reality and not just it's own type of propaganda. Its laughable and easily seen through.

Again I ask you, if a new Die Hard came out with Bruce Willis continuing as John McClane but all of a sudden his adult daughter starts doing all the shit he did but way better than he did, would you not clearly tell that that was put in simply to appease current PC politics?

There would be nothing organic about it.

People dont raise an eyebrow at male characters doing highly impressive (even slightly super human) things because that's been happening forever, in reality--and then being slightly bolstered and embellished in later retelling passed down thru time (which is where these feats tend to turn from extraordinary to superhuman).

There is nothing ever inorganic about a highly capable male character. There is however definitely many situations of inorganically written highly capable female characters. That much is true. Anime and Eastern Media in general tend to do a much better job of doing this organically.

Hollywood though? Hell no.

In short tho, suspension of disbelief is not unlimited and boundless. Sexual dimorphism is as real as gravity, yet an apple falling wrong in a movie would draw more outrage than a 120 lb woman out fighting a skilled 220 lb man in a kickboxing match in a movie even though both are impossible in reality.

 

[jason10mm]

My problem with this argument is that many of you ARE willing to suspend disbelief on things that should kill or significantly hinder a MC yet doesn’t. I’ve not watched them but I am aware there are videos on all the Die Hard films and how many times John should have either died or at least been far more significantly hurt than he was, and of course he’s hardly the only one when it comes to action films. And this applies to TLOU too, only one of Joel’s injuries is taken seriously in the story, yet in the game he’s taking countless bullets and such and ”dealing with them” by simply wrapping some bandages around the wound.

This is funny because at time of release Die Hard and John McClain were heralded for the depiction of a "realistic everyman hero" You really gotta compare that film in relation to the action films of the era.

Look, action films are gonna be silly, no question. But suspension of disbelief isn't an unlimited prospect. The fewer challenges to it, even in a film full of fantastical shit, the better. ESPECIALLY the closer it is to what the viewer knows. So like in RoP when the black elf guy takes a punch right in the face from a 400 pound brute orc....yeah, he dead. Said elf then gets ragdolled into stone walls about 5 times. Yeah, he's REALLY dead. Said elf then HOLDS OFF A KNIFE TO THE FACE from the self-same brute orc that's been elfhandling (orchandling?) him for the past 3 minutes. REALLY? So it's just a poorly blocked fight, no matter the genders involved.

Lately films have been getting better with fight choreography to account for size, weight, and skill disparities. Women typically fall short on the first two, so they have to "realistically" make it up on the third.

I liked the Lou movie on Netflix I felt there the strong female character worked really well. It's no high budget movie, but it's worth a watch.

LOU does this, an older woman, but lethally skilled, can take out two unsuspecting men, but fails when against an equally well trained man. Still a bit silly since no old lady is taking a kick to the guts and walking away, but much fewer insults to SoD than lots of action films, much less female fronted ones. Good film.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Probably lack of awareness. There's a ton more "strong male" films out there, and I'm not sure if that's considered a trope or just the fucking shitty way Hollywood has steered for a century. Seeing something for the first time, and it starting to gain popularity doesn't necessarily mean it's gotten to the point of being a trope. It's just giving women some of the same roles men had, which is something manga and anime have been doing for decades already. There are tropes like tsundere characters, but what is being interpreted as "strong female" characters in this thread just sounds like equaling the assignment of cliched character roles to both genders, much like men are being given the damsel in distress type of role in some stories. A trope that does not make, IMO.

A simpler way of saying it is the trope is based on the way these characters act, "meathead", "wise-cracking so-and-so", etc. Gender-bending doesn't change the trope, nor create a new one. So no, it's not a trope. Nothing new anyway.

 

[Represent.]

Who gives a shit really.

Look at how many movies have "strong male" characters. For decades. And especially strong white males. Imagine being a woman during the 1980's action hero era... Let the girls have their fun in the sun.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

All comes down to whether someone can suspend their disbelief and enjoy watching women kick ass. Even though in real life, it's not like that. It's fiction and hollywood after all.

Certain tropes hold true too similar to real life, which nobody cares about. In real life (like in movies and TV) the arch villain, evil doer or crime thug is usually a guy. Nobody cares.

 

[Goalus]

These days most "strong female characters" = angry, rude and extremely unlikeable.

I already said it, and I'll say it again:
I would love to see Brie Larson and Amber Heard as two strong independent women in a double-feature where they have to defend themselves against mansplaining and manspreading. Ideally, they should attack the male audience via social media right before the opening week-end, e.g. by calling them incels, sexist etc.

 

[jason10mm]

Who gives a shit really.

Look at how many movies have "strong male" characters. For decades. And especially strong white males. Imagine being a woman during the 1980's action hero era... Let the girls have their fun in the sun.

But these are MALE power fantasy stories. Just replacing the lead with a woman, but nothing else, doesn't suddenly make them suitable for women.

You sound like a person that champions the IDEA of the WNBA but never goes to a single game to actually support it because its half the speed of NBA.

Find me an all-male film written just like "Fried Green Tomatoes" or "Steel Magnolias". You can't, because those are WOMENS stories with WOMEN (doesn't mean they can be enjoyed by men, just that the target is women). A male version of an emotionally lead film is something like Secondhand Lions, not just plopping men into roles written for women.

 

[Vestal]

Again I ask you, if a new Die Hard came out with Bruce Willis continuing as John McClane but all of a sudden his adult daughter starts doing all the shit he did but way better than he did, would you not clearly tell that that was put in simply to appease current PC politics?

Personally as a father of two girls, I would love to see a movie like that!

Its the sort of thing that parents want for their children. For them to be better than us.

So you could argue, that a movie like that is targeted at DieHard Dads

 

[Represent.]

But these are MALE power fantasy stories. Just replacing the lead with a woman, but nothing else, doesn't suddenly make them suitable for women.

You sound like a person that champions the IDEA of the WNBA but never goes to a single game to actually support it because its half the speed of NBA.

Find me an all-male film written just like "Fried Green Tomatoes" or "Steel Magnolias". You can't, because those are WOMENS stories with WOMEN (doesn't mean they can be enjoyed by men, just that the target is women). A male version of an emotionally lead film is something like Secondhand Lions, not just plopping men into roles written for women.

It's mostly men writing these strong women in movies anyways. And has mostly been that way forever.

I see your point, however I just dont see it as a big deal just yet. And to me theres still plenty of strong male movies.

My fav movie of the year was The Northman, fav film of the decade? The Revanent.

 

[Chronicle]

 

[Woggleman]

I love genuine strong women characters but too many women these days are written to come across like some misandrist who writes articles on buzzfeed about how men are trash.

 

[YCoCg]

Once the half shave haircut appears I start to tune out, those are now a trope.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Peter Parker was still saving Mary Jane as recently as last year. The damsel trope's not gone anywhere, people are just doing more inventive things with it - which I won't post here, because it'll spoil two movies.

It'd spoil the entire mandatory monthlong study and preparation process, frankly.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

I think a good recent example of a strong female character that works well was Naru in Prey.
-She isn't a Mary Sue, she actually fucks up a bunch of times.
-There's an element of her having to fight to be taken seriously by the male hunters but it's a more personal story (instead of "for women!!") and she actually has to struggle to prove herself. It's not framed as: "actually she is 10 times better than all the guys!!!".
-The main male side character is skilled and supportive.

I disagree there. She was a Mary Sue. She’s a healer, the best tracker of the tribe and the male side character later agrees that she is smarter. She’s able to draw with one of the guys from her tribe, defeat 3 of the French guys in a 3 on 1 fight and ultimately kills the predator. And then she becomes leader of her tribe and proved that she was the best even though the patriarchy has been telling her that she cannot hunt.

 

[nkarafo]

The problem with the strong woman stereotype isn't that the character is better than everyone else. We already had plenty of such characters in the past.

The problem is that these characters are now completely unlikable and annoying. Always snobs, always condescending, always selfish, narcissists, etc.

Plus, it almost always a political message device for the tweeter leftists.

 

[nkarafo]

I love genuine strong women characters but too many women these days are written to come across like some misandrist who writes articles on buzzfeed about how men are trash.

You know, i just realized how there's a huge difference between strong male characters and strong female characters.

Strong male character heroes almost never beat up women. Even in movies where there's some impressively strong female villain bodyguard. Male characters tend to avoid fighting with them and if they can't avoid it, they try not to kill them. And if they do die it's usually accidental and their own fault. There are very few exceptions to this.

Strong female heroes? Not only they beat up mostly men, not only they also gladly kill them, but they seem to enjoy doing it.

So why are there so many male mobs in these "strong women" movies anyway? Why not have more female mobs? If you want to depict a world were women are stronger, then in that same world there should be more female mobs. Because, using the same logic, mobs/bodyguards are chosen based on how strong/skilled they are in fights. So why not go all the way? Is it because you are misandrists and enjoy see men get beat up by women?

The reality is we can't get past our nature. Not even the headstrong feminists who want to push the strong woman narrative. Even they know men are physically stronger and tougher. Society dictates they can take a hit and not complain about it because if they do, they will be labeled as weak crybabies. ESPECIALLY if they get beat up by a woman. Additionally, a man beating a woman is unacceptable because a stronger person beating up a weaker one is seeing as bullying or abuse. It's just nature and it highlights how different we are, physically.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

At this time in history, I’d say more so now than the last twenty years, women have every right to be resentful and vindictive. Would seem the female characters in movies are a reflection of what’s going on in society.

What do women have a right to be resentful and vindictive towards men about? I'm asking because it's objectively true that life has never been better for women anywhere on earth than in the modern western world. The vast majority of the improvements that women have seen in their lives have been delivered by men.

Also, if you're referring to things like rape and sexual assault then there's zero justification for holding an entire group of people responsible for the actions of a minority.

Finally, where does it get us when half the population goes round resenting the other half? What does that achieve and how does it benefit us?

 

[Kimahri]

Who gives a shit really.

Look at how many movies have "strong male" characters. For decades. And especially strong white males. Imagine being a woman during the 1980's action hero era... Let the girls have their fun in the sun.

Agreed. Having damsels like Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Valeria, Red Sonja and Marion Ravenwood as role models must have been tough.

 

[Konnor]

It's not even a strong female trope, it's a annoying spoiled brat desperately trying to emulate masculinity trope. It's sad really, there's nothing weaker and more pathetic than someone constantly trying to prove that they're just as good if not better than the other party.

 

[recma12]

Strong female characters are not a problem.

Characters that have absolutely zero growth are the problem.

Yeah that is my main issue with these token "Yas queen! You go girl!" characters they put into every movie now.
They are always introduced as "tough women", that don't trust anyone and establish dominance over any man they meet, anywhere they go.
And that's what they will be all movie or season.
It's a terrible, new "woke trope" and I think it started with the Ghostbusters remake.

I'm really not sure who this is for. My wife sure as hell didn't start watching Star Wars just because Rey is in there.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Strong female characters are not a problem.

Characters that have absolutely zero growth are the problem.

Naw, the growth tends to be that she realizes that she was awesome from the start and the world/universe is catching up to that.

 

[JonnieJiggles]

. The vast majority of the improvements that women have seen in their lives have been delivered by men

Holy shit dude get over yourself!

The quality of the lives of Western women has sharply decreased since The Orange Baffoon.

Just because resentment doesn’t necessarily help doesn’t mean it’s not justified.

 

[JonnieJiggles]

What's going on in society is that women are more coddled, protected and privileged than men of equal circumstances.

Someone is lying to you, that’s not what’s happening in the real world at all.

 

[Konnor]

Someone is lying to you, that’s not what’s happening in the real world at all.

Yes it is, Western women are the most coddled and privileged group in human history.

 

[captainnapalm]

It's not even a strong female trope, it's a annoying spoiled brat desperately trying to emulate masculinity trope. It's sad really, there's nothing weaker than someone constantly trying to prove that they're just as good if not better as the other party.

Woke ideology is poisonous in that way because embracing an ideology based on grievance and resentment just isn't a recipe for creating a person you admire or want to be like. Woke, feminist art is always going to be shit.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Holy shit dude get over yourself!

The quality of the lives of Western women has sharply decreased since The Orange Baffoon.

Just because resentment doesn’t necessarily help doesn’t mean it’s not justified.

You do realise that the western world isn't the same as the USA. How did the orange man decrease the quality of the lives of women in France, Germany or the UK?

Also, being resentful to half the population when they've done nothing bad to you is not justified.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Look at how many movies have "strong male" characters. For decades. And especially strong white males. Imagine being a woman during the 1980's action hero era... Let the girls have their fun in the sun.

Whenever I walk in on a woman watching TV, they're always watching Downtown Abbey or The Bachelor saying things like "I wish she'd just kick the crap out of them, jump through the window, and take out the pilot of that helicopter so she can go save her boyfriend from that KGB terrorist organization."

They always want to see that but we failed them for so long.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's never been more accurate how much women can kick men's asses.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Holy shit dude get over yourself!

The quality of the lives of Western women has sharply decreased since The Orange Baffoon.

Just because resentment doesn’t necessarily help doesn’t mean it’s not justified.

Orange Man Bad has nothing to do with women losing their safe spaces, like sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, dressing rooms, their literal voice, etc., to biological men. You are now witnessing actual "patriarchy" at work.

 

[OZ9000]

What is a woman anyway? Last I was told, they're an invention of society. Anyone can become one supposedly.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What is a woman anyway? Last I was told, they're an invention of society. Anyone can become one supposedly.

They are what they are, and aren't what they aren't when it's narratively convenient.

What are you, some kind of biologist or something?

 

[phranctoast]

Just seen Last Seen Alive on Netflix. Total damsel In distress movie. Jaimie Alexander is the damsel and she definitely plays girl power parts before. She’s Sif In Thor.
This topic is dumb.

 

[FunkMiller]

Bronwyn in Rings Of Power is the perfect example of a female character with zero growth, and unearned status.

What’s happening is that script writers are course correcting after decades of misogynistic depictions of women… but they are course correcting waaaaay too much.

We’ve gone from women as fault laden whores, to women as faultless leaders.

Neither is right.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Resourceful, intelligent women who use their talents to accomplish the goal, while still recognizably women are cherished characters in fiction. Women who are written as basically dudes with tits are fucking boring.

Edit - I keep coming back to Mama from 'Dredd'. She was a fucking psychopath, but there was a recognizable vulnerability in her character, and she never shied away from her genuine femininity. She was by far the most compelling character from that movie IMO, but I have a thing for well-written villains.

 

[Billbofet]

Naw, the growth tends to be that she realizes that she was awesome from the start and the world/universe is catching up to that.

Hey, you should have to put spoiler tags on that for ruining Captain Marvel

 

[Alter_Fridge]

Stereotrope