Temeculan3000
Member
You have to understand that on GAF anytime you make a comparison everyone assumes you are making an equivalence.
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HBO Boss Regrets Announcement of Confederate, but Not its Concept
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
You have to understand that on GAF anytime you make a comparison everyone assumes you are making an equivalence.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Is that what you think their goal with the show is? I think showing black people as slaves in a modern setting has the potential to do the opposite of what you think.
llien
Member
Cough:
(Kurt Vonnegut has done it too, read it, but don't remember the title...
)
I don't see it to be that different from Orwell's 1984.
excelsiorlef
Member
Dude read your post back... Story A sound similar to story B, which was great.
That's comparing premise of A to premise and execution of B. I can't be faulted for pointing out that B was great because literally one of the great modern novelists provided the source material, whereas A is in the hands of the guys who added a rape scene to motivate Sansa.
But I'll tell you what, if that wasn't your intention, that's fine I'll say this: praising premise without factoring who the authors are isn't very useful. So even if you didn't intend to invoke author comparison, I am more than willing to because in the end a premise in the hands of Atwood (and people working off of works by Atwood) has a far greater chance of success and artistic accomplishment than an original work premise from D&D.
A great premise is worthless in the hands of people who don't have the proper skills or sensitvity to execute it.
The premises themselves show the imagination and skills of the authors. Compare "What if America had another civil war, had its birthrate drop dramatically from pollution, and became overtaken by a totalitarian Christian regime" to "What if the South won the Civil War, black people were still oppressed, and the Confederates were hailed as heroes."
As far as the second premise goes, two out of its three core ideas are not fictional, so unless it were to lean hard into its one hypothetical idea (which seems pretty unlikely given the authors), it's not going to be an interesting thought experiment.
TBiddy
Member
I never compared the stories. I'm not sure why you keep attributing me with things I've never said. I said the premise of "what could've been" is interesting. Just like the premise of A Handmaids Tale, which also turned out to be a great series.
That's it. And that said, I don't have high confidence in Benioff and Wise, but I'm interested in the concept, they've presented.
MaddenNFL64
Member
So the U.S is still around in this alternate timeline correct? But the confederates won independence and are allowed to own slaves and all that?
The premise is interesting as all hell.
The premise is interesting as all hell.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I'M ANGRY BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT BE HANDLED WELL!!!!
Sensibility is becoming rare in our continent right now
I mean considering how tone deaf D&D have been when handling Game of Thrones the concerns are certainly justified.I'M ANGRY BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT BE HANDLED WELL!!!!
Sensibility is becoming rare in our continent right now
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
I can look outside and see that. Look at the current prison population.
I'M ANGRY BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT BE HANDLED WELL!!!!
Sensibility is becoming rare in our continent right now
Thanks for reducing all our arguments to a strawman. Really shows your brilliance.
Yeah absolutely. I can't blame people for being worried, it's entirely understandable. But personally I'm looking forward to the show and really hope it won't end up being the worst case scenario on how this can go but the opposite. I'll judge the show when I see it. I'm glad they aren't backing out, but I wish they've also noted the concerns from people.
More_Badass
Member
Human beings have the very useful ability of assessing past statistics, data, and events to extrapolate potential future outcomes based on the aforementioned considered information.I'M ANGRY BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT BE HANDLED WELL!!!!
Sensibility is becoming rare in our continent right now
Nothing exists in a vacuum, and if prior work and how creators handle certain themes and topics were already cause for criticism, one can rightfully feel concerned and wary for the fate of future projects.
The handling of race and similar topics in GoT, and the way themes of the book were twisted to be more shocking or whatnot on screens, is what makes people rightfully concerned for how race and other similar themes will be handled in a show and premise that requires a far more deft and nuanced approach than anything done on Game of Thrones.
It's not mindless baseless outrage, it's sensible informed concern.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I like alternate history shows. A Man in the High Castle is one of my favorites.
I do hope they can get a diverse set of writers/directors. Could be interesting.
I do hope they can get a diverse set of writers/directors. Could be interesting.
QuantumZebra
Member
ok this cracked me up
Elegant Weapon
Member
White Americans find enslaved black people entertaining. This show is just part of American tradition. Expect to see "shocking yet provocative" scenes of brutality and lots of rape.
America gets off on this shit
America gets off on this shit
Widdle Puppy
Banned
This show is going to flop so hard
What did he mean by this?
Member
To be fair the show isnt out yet. Gotta wait and see how they find it.
But for now we can say they think the lynchings and rapes could be very "interesting" or "amazing" or "keen" based off this thread
Right, let me rephrase, I understand the hate. I just dont agree with it.
I understand the points about the way they went with some aspects of GoT, and of course there are differences in nazis and the southern generals, but what matters is what the do with the premise, not the premise itself.
A great example from the man in the high castle is
Smith's son being disabled, and having to be put to death due to nazi ideology. The most loyal nazi officer finally saw what nazism does to people it deems lesser
I dont think they are creating this show just to deliberately be disrespectful and insensitive about slavery. So I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.
How am I being black or not have anything to do with my opinion on the premise of a show that will premiere in 2 to 3 year's time, that we dont know anything else about?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
How are they tone deaf? They cut out the white savior over brown people after the s3(?) finale. I don't remember any scenes of that magnitude afterwards. Only thing I can remember is her coming out of the fire to get
Khals supporting here
They fucked up and rectified the issue after that season though. I hate this idea that people are not allowed to make mistakes and not improve on their mistakes afterwards. It's basically a trope on many gaffers that get off on judging people one 1 thing and it's just common in social media where people love sitting on their high ground. I make mistakes constantly every single day, so this kind of attitude is just cringe inducing to see. Maybe not completely baseless, but a lot of criticism does fall under mindless. I'm not saying people shouldn't be skeptical or even addressing those people (I am one of those people), but people who outright 100% believe this will be a piece of shit, insulting etc add dumb hyperboles that have been thrown are more in line to people I'm addressing. Overdramatic individuals that shouldn't be taken seriously.
And mate, you're not going to get the double Ds to be as nounced as one of the greatest fictional writers of all time, nor will they come close to. If we use GRRIM as a standard, no one should be making a tv show about any sensitive topic.
They're on a different scale of skill. Maybe before deeming it as the worst fucking thing imaginable, it might be a good start to see the full list of writers, directors, producers might be a better idea. I have no idea how it'll turn out, but I'm waiting at least until I see the first trailer for it. Doing a 3 paragraph explanation was a dumb idea of such a subject though.Elegant Weapon
Member
For the creators to dream up this show, for it to get green lit, for there to be a debate instead of collective groan goes to show that black suffering is still a cash cow in America
white americans being entertained by black people suffering is just standard procedure
Elegant Weapon
Member
Right. Having a picnic and smiling for the camera in front of lynched black bodies hanging dead. HBO wants to do a show about this stuff, only in present day. Who the fuck is this supposed to entertain?
Today, they love to make every excuse on why some innocent person running away from a cop deserved to be shot dead. They celebrate our deaths and mock us with new slurs
Of course they are going to find a show about if black people were still enslaved "interesting" and get off on all the things they get to depict of them doing to us
In terms of tone deafness, this would be like HBOs what if America fell under Shariah law? one year after 9/11. Yeah Muslim Wahhabi America would be super interesting as well, doesnt mean I think it should be on a mainstream broadcasting network, especially not riding the coattails of the biggest TV show since Breaking Bad.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
They fucked up and rectified the issue after that season though. I hate this idea that people are not allowed to make mistakes and not improve on their mistakes afterwards. It's basically a trope on many gaffers that get off on judging people one 1 thing and it's just common in social media where people love sitting on their high ground. I make mistakes constantly every single day, so this kind of attitude is just cringe inducing to see. Maybe not completely baseless, but a lot of criticism does fall under mindless. I'm not saying people shouldn't be skeptical or even addressing those people (I am one of those people), but people who outright 100% believe this will be a piece of shit, insulting etc add dumb hyperboles that have been thrown are more in line to people I'm addressing. Overdramatic individuals that shouldn't be taken seriously.
And mate, you're not going to get the double Ds to be as nounced as one of the greatest fictional writers of all time, nor will they come close to. If we use GRRIM as a standard, no one should be making a tv show about any sensitive topic.
YOU'RE ANGRY BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT HANDLING YOUR POSTS WELL!!!
Sensibility is becoming rare in our continent right now
We don't want to see humanized or sympathetic slave owners. I have no desire to see that slave owner who happens to be a nice guy because he's good to his family or doesn't beat his slaves half to death like the next plantation owner who is stereo typically over the top in terms of bigotry and hate. America has done a great job of humanizing and white washing the Confederacy in the real world, I don't need to see a TV show do the same.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
YOU'RE ANGRY BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT HANDLING YOUR POSTS WELL!!!
Sensibility is becoming rare in our continent right now
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You didn't enter this conversation in good faith, did you?
Nah, there will be a story line where slave owner is in love with a slave
Thomas Jefferson that shit.
excelsiorlef
Member
Minus the literal slavery if you want to see what that world is like just read stories about black oppression in the US today.
I expect an ex slave who now owns other slaves because both sides are the same! Bioshock Infinity this whole thing!
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Hell realize the humanity of slaves by the 11th crack of the whip.
I cant wait for him to win an Emmy for best actor and the slave he beats get nominated for best supporting actress.
excelsiorlef
Member
That was my entire point?
Who cares if the premise is good... those two can't be trusted to pull it off...
I bet you there will be a story of a slave who wants to escape but being too afraid until her master rapes her one too many times and that gives her the motivation. Actually more likely yet I bet you it will be a male slave who wants to escape with his wfie but is too afraid to until his wife gets raped one too many times and that motivates him to do it. Then his wife will probably die tragically in the escape and this will give him the revenge motivation for the next season when he starts hunting slavers like a badass.
They going to have a Nate Turner type killing slave owners, cause both sides
Boombloxer
Member
All of this.
Again, I'd they announced say, Turtledove's American Empire, or The War That Came Early, no problem. The south wins that war, but there is no nuance and the actual path they take is more fucked up and bleak. Same with the outcome and payoff. There is no ambiguity there.
This horseshit is yahoo comments given life.
To play Devils Advocate the only way I can accept Confederate as anything other than a giant mistake is if the primary cast is all black and its about a second civil war between the black insurectionists and their (few) white allies, bolstered by Canadian, Mexican and European freedom fighting forces, against the slave owning government. In the end America becomes a predominantly black democracy.
Maybe there is a token beautiful white Canadian woman whos working with the abolitionists to smuggle slaves across the border via the Underground Railroad 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Maybe there is a token beautiful white Canadian woman whos working with the abolitionists to smuggle slaves across the border via the Underground Railroad 2: Electric Boogaloo.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Ehh? I thought you were joking around and having fun thus the gif. What on earth makes you think that I didn't enter the conversation in good faith? Your post doesn't really make sense if you were being serious.
Wouldn't the more acurate comparison be GRRM vs. Atwood? Or rather D&D vs. whoever wrote the adaption.
The problem with the show is that it's literally going to be "present day, but slavery is legal" instead of anything remotely interesting. The entire history of America and the world would be completely different if the Confederacy had won; a victory that doesn't even make sense to begin with. Are they going to have a dramatic introduction scene with Lincoln getting hanged for his "crimes and role in the Civil War"? Are they going to show a broken, weak America that simply didn't progress to where it is today due to poor governing? Is the Soviet Union still going to be around as the ruling superpower? What about the space race? Hell, would the Confederacy-ruled America even participate in either World War? Their original pitch sounding as a "both sides" kinda deal makes me think the show-runners are only interested in right-wing porn, to be honest.
A Confederate US would absolutely have been Nazi aligned but theyre going to gloss over that probably.
If the Axis powers were the US, Japan, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, now that might be an interesting scenario.
The European brain drain wouldve been concentrated in Great Britain and Canada. Who would have the first nuke? Canada may very well have dropped Fat Man on DC.
If the Axis powers were the US, Japan, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, now that might be an interesting scenario.
The European brain drain wouldve been concentrated in Great Britain and Canada. Who would have the first nuke? Canada may very well have dropped Fat Man on DC.
excelsiorlef
Member
D&D have been on their own a lot recently... and their on their own stuff is where a lot of the really stupid shit comes in (aka Let's rape Sansa for motivation)
But we can do that too Atwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GRRM
Aww fuck over under on there being an NLM movement subplot?
I think that might be a more complicated issue than you give it credit for.
I wont disagree and yet I have no doubt Im giving it more credit than D&D.
Yup, I would be far more interested in an Oryx & Crake adaption over anything from GRRM but we already know HBO's answer..
The proper way to do it would be to have a victorious CSA and a defeated USA. And maybe give the CSA Maryland and Washington DC and move the Union capital to Philadelphia or something like that. But no, that would require world building and effort.
This show's premise is something that could be made interesting, but the way it's described makes it sound terrible.
You'd probably be far more interested in the project Aaron McGruder is working on now.
