HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part II OT | You Can't Stop This
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I think they're both better in the show. I believe more in the show that Tommy can kick ass and I think fleshing out his character more has really been beneficial.
Neolombax
Member
Did not play part 2, only saw some scenes here and there and have a general idea what happens. Though I personally hated what happened with Joel, i thought the TV show lacked impact? And did Abby talk that much in the game before killing Joel? Because it seemed a bit excessive and was running too long, for someone who hated Joel and wanted to kill him so badly. Didn't feel much emotion from both Ellie and Abby. This particular part is supposed to set up Ellie's rampage right? It didnt feel that way.
Sleepwalker
Member
The acting in that scene wasn't that great I thought. I also don't really believe Ellie and Abby can carry the show on their backs but I guess we'll see. So far I find S2 mostly boring.
The town invasion was great however.
The town invasion was great however.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
If they play their cards right, that sniper part with Tommy can be kick ass honestly. Probably season 3 but still great.
viveks86
Member
In general, I disagree even more. Outside of the film and advertising industry, which tends to be skin deep, that just doesn't map to real life. It's pseudo-psychology at best. When it comes to empathy, we may feel more towards a group we identify (such a nationality, neighborhood, religion, culture, race etc.). We may imitate people we find good looking. That's about it. The rest is just us being shallow minded. When a random stranger is actually struggling or in danger, we aren't looking to see if they are attractive or not. If we do, that's a sign of lacking empathy, not having it. It may be situational though, for example, not everyone can empathize with fictional characters or people pretending on screens. At that point, whatever you are feeling isn't empathy. It's just sympathy directed arbitrarily to whatever your preference is. So yeah, you can feel sympathetic towards good looking actors and I can feel sympathetic towards ugly nerd characters that invariably get bullied. It's just a mindset and not reflective of the human condition.
Disagree on Abby, Dina and Jesse. I get why people dislike Abby though. Why Dina and Jesse? What was so unlikeable about them?
I did find Manny unlikeable early on, but was ok as the game progressed. Nora didn't have much of a personality at all. Or at least one that I remember. Overall, I would say Abby's team were totally forgettable. Unlikeable? I don't know... Lev was fantastic. Yara was a bit... boring?
I found Maria more unlikeable than anyone. But she was running a town post-apocalypse, so a certain degree of disagreeability comes with the territory. My issues with the characters in part 2 were that there simply wasn't enough depth to any of the supporting cast. They couldn't hold a candle to any of the part 1 supporting cast. Perhaps there were too many and we simply don't get to spend much time with them to feel a connection.
A lot of what you are saying comes down to personal taste and we can all judge what is good or bad taste, but you are presenting it as objective facts. Can't comment on the episode specifically as I'm holding off on watching them until all 7 come out.
Fair point! They are similar due to the sheer level of investment put into the content. The stronger you are attached, the stronger you are capable of hate. But it's also fair to compare apples to apples. Your typical game fan is equivalent to a star wars fan (the good and the bad). Not the average aunt watching some quality TV before bed time.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Not to veer off topic, but as a Star Wars fan myself, I've consumed a good amount of Star Wars content. It's massively overrated (even the original trilogy). I think Andor is the best thing that Star Wars has ever done (so very excited about the new season starting tonight).
Starting with the prequels though, much of that content has been made better by additional content giving more context that paints the prequels in a better light, allowing them to age much better.
The more recent Star Wars stuff has just been bad and I think that stems from Rian Johnson not being onboard with the universe JJ Abrams was creating and then JJ Abrams coming back to do the last movie. Combine that with some poor efforts like BoBF and Solo and people have a right to be upset, but people who have decided to go to toxic levels or make things personal... it's a weird thing to see...
He would never do it, but I'd totally put Tony Gilroy in charge of Star Wars for like the next decade or two.
Jormatar
Member
I would definately take a second look if someone said that girl is actually in her twenties.
She looks like a 12 yo. Extremely immersion breaking. I really wish Dever would have been cast as Ellie. She does fit the part.
Cakeboxer
Member
They considered Dever, but i guess the Game of Thrones fame unfortunatley did it for Ramsey.
viveks86
Member
Actually looking forward to Andor. Had recently signed up with Disney+. I have no exposure to Star Wars TV shows at all!
I forgot to write about Mel. I definitely found her unlikeable. A pain in the ass. Lol.
If they are going to spend the whole of next season on Abby, they should really flesh out the side characters and give them meaningful story arcs, instead of just having them tag along and quip one liners.
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Jormatar
Member
Let's see how the IMDB ratings look like after few episodes once the audience has realized the main carry of the show is gone and rest of the show is now in the hands of bunch of kids and Salt Lake City group.
I don't know about you guys but one of the biggest problem of Joel being gone in Part 2 for me was the fact we didn't get anyone even near as interesting as Joel to accompany us on our journey and that just made the journey worse.
I don't know about you guys but one of the biggest problem of Joel being gone in Part 2 for me was the fact we didn't get anyone even near as interesting as Joel to accompany us on our journey and that just made the journey worse.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I love the Joel character, but you're vastly overrating his importance.
The show and games were always about relationships and these relationships get far more complex beyond just the father daughter relationship of Joel and Ellie.
Joel's character had his arc and there wasn't much left for his character to do. You have your fingers crossed that tv watchers will validate you, but you'll continue to dismiss them as they continue watching and praising the show.
MSduderino
Member
I thought the acting was top notch from all and it needed to be to deliver the meaty material. It was a bit busy with invasion storyline and joel/ellie back and forth and I'm not sure they really mixed, but both were done well. Got helms deep vibes. Intense throughout.
VulcanRaven
Member
Dever was considered years ago when it was going to be a movie. Not anymore when making the show.
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John Bilbo
Member
I bet there's a flashback with Joel and Ellie in the next episode.
MSduderino
Member
Definitely at least a couple I think. They are going for nonlinear story telling. We still want to know about Eugene and how/why he was killed. And if you played the TLOU2 you know there's stuff to unveil during the 5 year break.
VulcanRaven
Member
Episode 2 behind the scenes:
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I'm concerned about how they will be implemented without hurting the pacing. I think the museum episode may need to be all or half of an episode in itself. It would be weird for a TV episode to just take a 15 minute chunk and make it a flashback. Would feel like they went half measure with it and it's just distracting away from the current plot. Might as well make it half of a whole episode. A la Ellie's backstory episode from season 1.
VulcanRaven
Member
Maybe we actually see how he was killed. Speculation about one scene from the trailers that could be unrelated:
There is a shot of Joel talking to Catherine O'Hara's character that we haven't seen yet. Its from a different scene. So there are new flashbacks set close to the current time.
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ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
These days I feel like I'm on a different planet because of how much people glaze mediocrity and outright shit.
Dever looks ridiculous as Abby and the monologue was soooo shit. And tbh I only watched the clip of it and her torturing Joel, because all the acting and visual components of the show PALE in comparison to even the PS3 game.
Pedro Pascal doesn't touch Troy Baker's performance.
What was interesting was Abby actually explaining herself, which she never felt compelled to do in the game. The problem though, is the same thing I inferred from Part II is confirmed in season 2 by the writing - Abby literally doesn't care about anything but daddy dearest.
It's not that I think she should "get over" her father's death. But the Fireflies were a military/terrorist force that killed a lot of people. She continues to kill as a WLF with no remorse, and the general hostility to life of the world she literally born to is such that violence finds almost everyone regardless of whether or not they sign up for it. It just seems hypocritical to the point of ridicule that she would be willing to risk so much by crossing the country and assassinating this guy, who she KNOWS had his own reasons for assaulting the Fireflies to literally zero effect simply because her dad was killed. It would make sense if she was at all invested in the vaccine and its loss, but the games don't seem to be interested in that beyond the smallest personal level. Even Ellie makes it an ego thing. "My life would've mattered, and you took that from me!"
I don't buy into the "cycle of violence" argument, because I don't think it's an argument that the game even commits to (and it's tough to do that, because there is no point to that argument to commit to). Because we're given a narrative that frames Abby similarly to Joel by the end of 3 days with Lev. Meaning that if Abby were put in Joel's position, she'd do the same thing - and Druckmann thinks it would be the "right" thing to do.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
This is insane hyperbole, come on man. Its not the greatest acting of all time or anything, but saying the acting is AWFUL and AMATEUR is just plain silly. this is why the community is so toxic. everything is to the extreme
Werewolf Jones
Member
It's Home Box Office not The CW.
Why have 2 separate people linked this incel garbage lol
captainnapalm
Member
I think the reaction to this episode made me realise that people enjoy feeding off intense emotions - good or bad - you see it most clearly on those talent shows which are all about packaging raw emotions for public consumption. Like vampires, people love feeding on all that juicy emotional energy. So they're kind of on a bit of a high right now because of how horrible that scene is and how beloved the character is that it happened to - but eventually it wears off and you need some more of that juicy misery - or other people's misery. Shows like this can really only go one way, and let's face it, Part 2 doesn't have all that much to say other than the cycle of revenge is bad.
I never got into Game of Thrones or some of these other misery porn shows, but there is an audience for it. Vampires gotta eat.
Ulysses 31
Member
How about this one then?
She makes valid points about women being less replaceable than men in that setting.
So far I've been enjoying it. It's the same as the first season for me in the sense that I love the games so it's hard to see things through any other lens. It's not meant to be a one-to-one recreation which follows the exact same beats with look-alike actors. I think we all have to understand that this show is primarily made for an audience who have no relationship to the games, and that's OK.
I honestly think the action scenes really hurt the show and make it less interesting/just another zombie story. I hope that they flesh out some side stories like they did with S01E03.
Curious to see how they will structure the story. I loved the format of the game but don't think it works for a TV show. Also wonder to what point they will get to in this season.
P.S. Why did they change the final kill blow to a stab rather than the golf swing? Felt way less impactful IMO
I honestly think the action scenes really hurt the show and make it less interesting/just another zombie story. I hope that they flesh out some side stories like they did with S01E03.
Curious to see how they will structure the story. I loved the format of the game but don't think it works for a TV show. Also wonder to what point they will get to in this season.
P.S. Why did they change the final kill blow to a stab rather than the golf swing? Felt way less impactful IMO
Toons
Member
She has a baby face but age absolutely doesn't look 12. Maybe in season 1.. 20 year olds look like teenagers 90% of the time. Hollywood just is used to casting 33 year olds as teens
This was supposed to be a 16 year old in this scene:
viveks86
Member
Lol. Nice. So much revisionism and moving goal posts after this episode. The people who loved the game's story were all just dumb low iq ND/Sony fanboys. Now the non-gamers who like the show are all misery loving vampires!
ReBurn
Gold Member
He was at least 16 years old.She has a baby face but age absolutely doesn't look 12. Maybe in season 1.. 20 year olds look like teenagers 90% of the time. Hollywood just is used to casting 33 year olds as teens
This was supposed to be a 16 year old in this scene:
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
She has a baby face but age absolutely doesn't look 12. Maybe in season 1.. 20 year olds look like teenagers 90% of the time. Hollywood just is used to casting 33 year olds as teens
This was supposed to be a 16 year old in this scene:
The 21 year old actress is playing a 19 year old... The horror!!!
drotahorror
Member
IWhat's it matter anyway? I appreciate a hot shit-take once in a while. I think he's way too extreme but find myself in agreement with some things. Just like with Worthabuy. He has some insane takes but I do watch some of his videos and can agree to disagree sometimes.
As for posting it twice, I'm not sure whether I posted after or before someone. Either way, it totally doesn't affect you.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Not my problem you love low quality slop and are attracted to non binary fat ugly teens. Uma Thurman is awesome, Kill Bill is awesome, the fact that you like Bella and her acting just show what low IQ you have and what slop you dare to compare to Kill Bill by one of the greatest directotors alive. You wanking it off to Bella and saying she is also a good actress are two different things. Almost to the point Im thinkiong you are Bella herself replying here XD I never seen someone defend a more undefined, low quality, talentless "actress" as much as you do and try to spin it to feminism. Think its you who needs to lay off the drugs.You're still pushing the immaturity five years later. It's pretty wild.
Were you complaining about Kill Bill back in 2004?
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taizuke
Member
Just because an opinion leans negative does not mean is toxic. After all, he's just criticising the show and it's performances. Perhaps he's harsher than most of us, but what he said in that post wasn't toxic.
We ought to be careful not to label everything we wholeheartedly disagree with as such.
Full disclaimer, I have not watched the show, but I have heard of what they did change about Joel's death and as someone who thinks that the way the game did was incredibly fucking stupid, it really does seem like the show rewrote a lot of it to be SIGNIFICANTLY less contrived and stupid. Thats why it doesn't buzz anywhere near as much controversy as the game, it has nothing to do with "immaturity" or whatever bullshit.
I'm sorry, people who defend TLOU2's writing (game specifically) genuinely don't understand why people don't like Joel's death in that game. Everybody knew it was going to happen. What they didn't expect was for Joel, a wanted dead man, to just randomly give out his name to a bunch of strangers and seclude himself with them like a goddamn moron when you know damn well its a result of poor/contrived writing. It seems like the show pretty much admitted this was fucking dumb too because they re-wrote it significantly to make a lot more sense and be less OOC for Joel. I'm sure I'd be a lot more receptive to how it was handled in the show if I end up watching it, despite me absolutely detesting the game's story. Sorry, its an extremely poorly written game that shows the Druckman is terrible at writing solo, his thrown out ideas from the first game should have clued people in on this but apparently everyone who criticizes the writing is an immature man-baby.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
- Abby not revealing her motivations wasn't a huge talking point back in 2020.
- Joel shouted Tommy's name multiple times, so Abby was completely aware it was Tommy
- No one had a problem with Abby's appearance when she was first revealed in 2017. People started to hate on her appearance AFTER they found out what she did.
- Moving Ellie and Dina's kiss to episode 1 isn't going to sway viewers one way or another.
The so-called "issues" people had were Joel trusting strangers and Abby leaving Ellie and Tommy/Dina alive.
The thing is, people just parrot talking points from each other, and that makes their criticism invalid. Joel didn't go to the house because he trusted them; he went to the house because they were fighting off a horde.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
That's not how it went down.
People called it "bad writing" when they saw a clip of Joel's death. It was just a clip of Joel getting beaten with a golf club. People thought he was taken down by Abby and that's when the backlash of her appearance started......This wasn't an issue when she was revealed back in 2017.
"Joel would never trust strangers."
"Joel would never give his name to strangers."
"Abby conveniently runs into Joel."
"Abby conveniently wears a WLF patch."
"Abby conveniently leaves Tommy and Ellie alive."
"Ellie has a clear shot but doesn't shoot Abby as soon as she walks into the door."
"Joel didn't go out fighting."
The only real difference is how Joel's name was revealed. The difference in how the name was revealed isn't going to change people's feeling about what happened. People are just using this as an excuse. lol
VulcanRaven
Member
Tommy told Joel's name to Abby in the game. Not Joel. After that it was too late to hide it.
Druckmann wasn't the only writer in Part 2.
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captainnapalm
Member
I'm sure you could make a venn diagram of the two groups and their love for this show. Add in a third - the woke crowd that loves the intersectional politics of the show.
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Neff
Member
Truth. A lot of gamers are not well-rounded people. 'Normies' are more sophisticated and worldly wise on the whole as demographics go.
It'll be interesting to see if viewers of the show actually understand the ending, since it seemed to go over so many heads back in 2020.
Also since my post was lost to the outage I'll pointlessly reiterate that Sunday's ep was really fucking good.
CartesianMan
Member
Joel's death doesn't have the same impact as in the game. (It's debatable whether it even worked well in the game, but that's another issue. )
Why isn't it working here? Because season two just started, and we've spent very little time with Joel, making it hard for viewers to form a strong connection with the character.
So, when they killed him off, my wife simply said, 'Okay, that's a pity. He was a cool character.' And that was it.
Other on that it's OK show I guess.
Why isn't it working here? Because season two just started, and we've spent very little time with Joel, making it hard for viewers to form a strong connection with the character.
So, when they killed him off, my wife simply said, 'Okay, that's a pity. He was a cool character.' And that was it.
Other on that it's OK show I guess.
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst
Member
Imo the cutscenes in the game felt like they were of a far higher quality, both in terms of acting and pacing, than the show. The show has a strangely student film type feel to it, like nothing carries any weight. Every scene feels wooden, like when the Fireflies were standing around those graves discussing what to next, or even Joel's death scene. It was far more brutal in the game when Abby just blows off his leg without warning and the others pistol whip Tommy unconscious. Also, I really dislike that actress who plays Nora on the show and I fucking HATE that she plays the main character in Intergalactic, instant turnoff.
This story has been perfectly depicted on screen already as part of the game, and this show looks like a pale imitation of that.
This story has been perfectly depicted on screen already as part of the game, and this show looks like a pale imitation of that.
You're misremembering, it was both of them.
VulcanRaven
Member
Joel did say it later but Tommy had already done it so it was too late to start to lie.
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
First of all, Abby knew his name was Joel even before they get to that place with the WLF group. Tommy called him multiple times before they get there. It's also Tommy that announces Joel to the group...
About Druckman writing the game solo...he didn't. He wrote it with Halley Gross.
Actually...if anything, Druckman wrote the first game solo...not the second, so him being a terrible writer goes out of the window.
He did not, he bounced most of his ideas with Bruce Straley, that's the reason we didn't get dumb shit like Tess being a villain.
This reddit thread goes into a pretty good citated description of the fact that Druckmann wasn't solely responsible for the first game's vastly superior writing.
VulcanRaven
Member
Of course writing is often collaborative effort even if someone did most work. I see nothing wrong with that. But if we talk about who is credited then the first game has only one writer and Part 2 has two. Also the opening credits say Narrative lead: Halley Gross.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Not a reddit post that originally came from that r/ thelastofus2 sub cesspool ...lmao.
That said, that reddit post just says there was input from a lot of other people but doesn't mention the writing itself. In fact there's a part in there where Neil says "We would start with the major story beats, which were the cinematics. Then Bruce would tell me the game is too dark ... ". If anything it seems like Neil would write the entire thing and Bruce would pull the breaks on some crazier story beats...but it sounds like the writing itself came from Neil.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
Have you ever heard "saved in the edit," ?
It's a phenomenon where the forward facing "head," of a project gets insane recognition for his all of his good ideas without crediting the guy who got him to take out all of his BAD ideas first. George Lucas and A New Hope (where I first noticed it, thanks to that youtube video), with Druckman and TLOU, with Kojima and MGS. Some of the more notable online communities might refer to it as the wrangling of a certain type of person.
But what stands is the fact that a brilliant guy can have Eighteen good ideas and Eighteen shitty ones, but the way the public will receive his intelligence is wholly predicated on the ratio of good ideas to shit ideas on public record. It's sort of like why police departments won't release definitive statements during a criminal investigation - in case they get something wrong, they want to wait until they know under reasonable certainty that the ideas and conclusions they put into the aether aren't fucking pants on head retarded.
A lot of talent is determined by restraint.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Unless I'm misremembering the order of events in the game, this promo photo suggests season 2's story takes us farther than I expected.
Isn't that location whereEllie and Dina shack up in the back part of the game after the events of Ellie and Abby's first confrontation? Or do I have the order wrong. If so, the cliffhanger season 2 ends on is almost assuredly when Ellie sets out for Santa Barbara?
Or is this just Jackson? It could be Jackson, and at a grave site for Joel and others who died, but the snow wouldn't melt that fast. But the terrain looks exactly like the house where Ellie and Dina shack up.
Isn't that location whereEllie and Dina shack up in the back part of the game after the events of Ellie and Abby's first confrontation? Or do I have the order wrong. If so, the cliffhanger season 2 ends on is almost assuredly when Ellie sets out for Santa Barbara?
Or is this just Jackson? It could be Jackson, and at a grave site for Joel and others who died, but the snow wouldn't melt that fast. But the terrain looks exactly like the house where Ellie and Dina shack up.
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