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[deriks]

How would you say the episode is great if the execution wasn't? I'm confused.

There's a difference between "being great" and "not that great in comparison"

Example: the PS360/Wii gen was great, but not that great as Mega/SNES

Interpretation 101, man

 

[Paasei]

They're in a bit of a bind, especially if they try to stretch this to 4 seasons.

Right now as it stands you probably have this season end with the Nora boss fight. I don't think you want to split up the Rat King into a separate season, but regardless of that, the next big jumping off point is the theater.

That leaves Santa Barbara for season 4... and honestly, that's going to be a weak season.

Could be my mistake, then. Thought season 2 is covering part 2. Like season 1 covered part 1. With the obvious changes here and there to cover for the gameplay bits.

 

[Toots]

I wish Joel stone cold stunned Abby the second he sees her, and then tag Tommy for the Jackson Blonds finish.

 

[VulcanRaven]

Dat IMDB rating. 9.5/10 with 22000 votes!

I'm very suprised by this. I had problems with the episode but good that people are liking it.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I'm very suprised by this. I had problems with the episode but good that people are liking it.

The difference between the episode and the game is that they gave Abby a really proper reasoning for what she did, unlike the game where the pacing and the scene made no sense and was just for shock which naturally pissed off a lot of people, even if later on you start to appreciate her, but by that time your hate has grown too much.

 

[Luipadre]

have to say, the murder scene was done quite well.

I still struggle with the Ellie casting, she appears too young, so the emotional impact of the scene felt a little odd. My wife who did not know what was coming actually laughed and said 'pedro pascal is the new sean bean?' which made me chuckle.

It was much better in the game. wtf was that neck stab lol. It looked so cheap.

 

[Just_one]

i think this is how they will break the seasons for the 2nd game

Spoiler

Season 2 - joel´s death and ellie quest to find abby , probably ends in the theatre where abby kills jessie and almost kills ellie
Season 3 - Abby´s side of story and the whole Seraphite arc with Lev
Season 4 - short season in santa barbara with Ellie and Abby going to the fireflies and their final fight

 

[VulcanRaven]

The difference between the episode and the game is that they gave Abby a really proper reasoning for what she did, unlike the game where the pacing and the scene made no sense and was just for shock which naturally pissed off a lot of people, even if later on you start to appreciate her, but by that time your hate has grown too much.

I think they explained Abby too much. I prefer the game version of the scene.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Dat IMDB rating. 9.5/10 with 22000 votes!

Goes to show the difference between a childish gaming audience and a tv audience.

The episode had everything that makes good tv.

 

[GudOlRub]

So they offed Joel in the second episode and are somehow still going to make 2 seasons out of the second game? Oof.
Also, I don't particularly care about Bella Ramsey's looks arguments and such, but this episode shows how much better of an actress Ashley Johnson is and it's not even close. Watch Ellie's reaction to Joel's demise in the game then watch the show, it's almost cringe inducing because how much worse it is.

 

[Bond007]

S2 has been entertaining thus far- no major complaints to gripe about

 

[Great Auk]

I thought this episode was much better than the first, I found the first one pretty boring.

I didn't like how the hoard was so large, it felt unrealistic to have that many zombies in such a remote area all at the same time, especially because they went unnoticed all that time.

If they toned that down somewhat it would have made more sense. I also never hated Abby in the game like so many people do, even though I agree that she looked way to jacked in the game (I blame Druckmann.)

I grew more sympathetic with Abby and disliked Ellie more and more as the game progressed.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

So they offed Joel in the second episode and are somehow still going to make 2 seasons out of the second game? Oof.

Have you played the game? Joes death is like in the first 2-3 hours fo the game out of a 25+ hr playthrough. There is a shit ton that is going to happen next.

 

[GudOlRub]

Have you played the game? Joes death is like in the first 2-3 hours fo the game out of a 25+ hr playthrough. There is a shit ton that is going to happen next.

I did, and the pacing of the game was horrible so I figured they'd at least try to sort that out a little better in the show. Guess not.

 

[Toons]

"Distracting" would be the right word, it's simple biology when the brain perceives something as "off" , it has nothing to do with "Hollywood high beauty standards", nothing to do with being "crude" or "insensitive", the girl unfortunately didn't win the genetic lottery and has also been extremely miscast, it's not the viewer's fault in the end.

it's also not the viewer's fault that she chose to be an actor, a job which - literally - requires you to expose yourself to millions of people.

Of course, the usual internet holier than thou white knights will be happy to defend it by any means necessary regaling epithets left and right like they haven't used even once the term "distracting" or "ugly" in their lives, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that jazz.
9 out of 10 comments wherever you look have to do with her distracting appearance /being incredibly miscast, but nope, everyone is apparently wrong, a "troll", a "-ist" and/or a "-phobe" - hypocrisy at its finest...

Theres absolutely nothing about ellies role in this series that requires her to be Hollywood attractive. In fact, in this series setting, that is of even less importance.

People getting hung up an this are just being immature and prioritizing all the wrong things about this character. If you're distracted by people that don't look like the other Hollywood TV stars, you're either arbitrary applying those standards where it doesn't fit or you just don't go outside enough to see regular people. Because ellie is supposed to be that, a girl you wouldn't think twice about walking past on the street.

 

[Bartski]

I prefer the game version of the scene.

Same here. To be honest, I'm really torn on this. I mean, I can see it's a legit good show featuring some nice ideas, but something about it just makes me cringe. Maybe I'm too attached to both games and played them way too many times, but a lot of it feels somehow weirdly uncanny and wrong.

Also, some of the casting irks me even harder than it did in season one.

 

[SJRB]

bruh

 

[Toons]

I guess it's because her ugliness is distracting and she looks ridicolous and nothing like videogame ellie.

Also, she is a self-proclamed non-binary so people have even less sympathy for her dumb ass.

She is a millionaire, she doesn't need your defence, when you are a public figure, people are gonna talk about your look, it comes with the territory.

I'm sure you never trolled an actor look in your life.

Grown man, probably in his 30s or 40s talking like a high school football jock from an 80s film lmao

Some of you guys are looking *way* worse out of this than Bella Ramsey does.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Could be my mistake, then. Thought season 2 is covering part 2. Like season 1 covered part 1. With the obvious changes here and there to cover for the gameplay bits.

Part 2 will be 2-3 seasons.

 

[tTHANOSs]

Finally caught up. I enjoyed both episodes. But the monologue done by Abby was cringe. Also the death was much worse in the game in my opinion. Abby is just not convincing enough in the show.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Theres absolutely nothing about ellies role in this series that requires her to be Hollywood attractive. In fact, in this series setting, that is of even less importance.

People getting hung up an this are just being immature and prioritizing all the wrong things about this character. If you're distracted by people that don't look like the other Hollywood TV stars, you're either arbitrary applying those standards where it doesn't fit or you just don't go outside enough to see regular people. Because ellie is supposed to be that, a girl you wouldn't think twice about walking past on the street.

What are you on about lol. Ellie in the game is not some pornstar looking either. Point is she is lanky, skinny fit female. Bella is the polar opposite with a double chin and slightly overweight. They pretty much nailed most others but Ellie they butchered absolutely. Also as said before her acting is atrocious, Abby actress is like 10 leagues ahead of Bella. So not only is she a complete mismatch, she happens to be ugly too but her unactractiveness has nothing to do with the in-game Ellie wishlist. She is just a shit actress and looks mike a 10 year old dwarf that people are supposed to imagine will drop 10 infected like flies.

 

[VulcanRaven]

What are you on about lol. Ellie in the game is not some pornstar looking either. Point is she is lanky, skinny fit female. Bella is the polar opposite with a double chin and slightly overweight. They pretty much nailed most others but Ellie they butchered absolutely. Also as said before her acting is atrocious, Abby actress is like 10 leagues ahead of Bella. So not only is she a complete mismatch, she happens to be ugly too but her unactractiveness has nothing to do with the in-game Ellie wishlist. She is just a shit actress and looks mike a 10 year old dwarf that people are supposed to imagine will drop 10 infected like flies.

Bella is not like that at all.

 

[saintjules]

I didn't like how the hoard was so large, it felt unrealistic to have that many zombies in such a remote area all at the same time, especially because they went unnoticed all that time.

Hmm

 

[Stafford]

So that's it for this show for me. I knew this was going to happen, but I just can't care after this happens. It's not like it's such a great story from here on out anyway.

 

[DragoonKain]

I just don't see how they can turn TLOU Part 2 into 3 seasons without a lot of padded filler. So much of the game is doing small non-TV translatable things. Traveling, sneaking, fighting baddies, etc. And frankly, I hope they don't. 15 episodes across two seasons is more than enough time. Don't drag this story out for 6 years(2 year layoff between each season most likely).

I rewatched it and I think they truly did a great job with it. I get how game lovers can nitpick, but it's one of the better episodes of game-to-TV I've ever seen. Glad people are liking it. One thing the episode missed was the tear streaming down Joel's cheek when he was being killed. It was a very small touch in the game, but it was important because it showed us Joel laying there about to die locking eyes with Ellie who is pinned down and just absolutely devastated is destroying Joel in his last moments. We rarely see Joel cry. We see it when his daughter dies and honestly, that might be the first moment since his daughter dies in the game where he cries. But he does there right before he dies because he sees what's happening to Ellie and he's helpless.

The show didn't put that little touch in. Again, not a huge deal, it was a very small thing, but when I was playing the game, it meant something to me.

Now I want to see how they work in the flashbacks without killing the pacing. Also, how often they check in with Abby and co. and if they can be remotely interesting without the "Will they kill Joel" hanging over their story arc. With that gone, I suspect to many TV viewers they will just be a band of misfits no one cares about. How do the writers make them interesting and sympathetic? Or will we barely check in on them at all? Which is what I'm expecting.

And lastly, how many of the story beats stay the same. Will Tommy and Ellie have that conversation? Will the crew leave the same way?

 

[SlimySnake]

Goes to show the difference between a childish gaming audience and a tv audience.

The episode had everything that makes good tv.

Yes, it has nothing to do with the fact that they changed key aspects

- Abby's motivations are laid out BEFORE she captures Joel, AND during.
- Joel and Tommy dont out themselves like morons like they do in the game.
- The episode has a phenomenal action sequence completely missing from the game.
- Abby doesnt look like a cartoon character and isnt hateable from the get go.
- Manny doesnt spit on Joel. This was a major point of contention with a lot of people who thought it was needlessly cruel. Something Craig mazin literally said he didnt want to do with this episode. Lack of golf club smash being replaced by a knife stab to the neck is also far less violent than what we got in the game.
- Joel and Ellie's big fight after the lesbian kiss was included in the episode providing much needed context that was kept from gamers until the very end of the game.

So yeah, no shit the reception is different. They fixed the major issues brought on by the same critics. It's almost like they watched those videos and went about fixing the very issues that made it such a controversial scene.

 

[SlimySnake]

I just don't see how they can turn TLOU Part 2 into 3 seasons without a lot of padded filler. So much of the game is doing small non-TV translatable things. Traveling, sneaking, fighting baddies, etc. And frankly, I hope they don't. 15 episodes across two seasons is more than enough time. Don't drag this story out for 6 years(2 year layoff between each season most likely).

Yep. Almost all of Ellie's Seattle campaign is full gameplay. The only story beats are dina getting morning sickness and Jesse showing up. Nothing else happens until the end.

Abby's storyline has an actual plot which eventually results in the island invasion. She also has to take care of the kids, and has some drama going on with Owen they can cover for a few episodes. But Ellie and Dina do nothing but move forward for 3 days. there is definitely no 20 hours of story here. 15 maybe if you include the post Seattle scenes.

 

[VulcanRaven]

- The episode has a phenomenal action sequence completely missing from the game.
- Joel and Ellie's big fight after the lesbian kiss was included in the episode providing much needed context that was kept from gamers until the very end of the game.

I wouldn't call it phenomenal. It wasn't needed and was too over the top. About the fight after the kiss. Jesse and Ellie talk about it just after you start playing.

Edit: Also that kiss scene was in the game trailers.

 

[Forth]

This show is already so much better than the game.

 

[Paasei]

Part 2 will be 2-3 seasons.

Damn, that doesn't sound good to me. A lot less excited for this show now.

 

[DragoonKain]

I think Tommy staying in Jackson was better. Sure, he wasn't there to witness Joel's death in person, but I remember in the game thinking there's no way these punks could handle Tommy AND Joel. Even though they had them cornered. Plus Tommy staying at Jackson makes a lot more sense. There must always be a Miller in Jackson.

It will also give Dina a reason to be as fired up about helping Ellie as she needs to be for the plot. The show made Dina and Joel closer than in the game. And they gave Tommy his badass moment before he heads out on revenge.

I think season 2 is going to end with Ellie and Abby's confrontation part 1.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Bella is not like that at all.

Right, we got a swimsuit model right here:

 

[Warnen]

Man Ellie actor is distracting, like a South Park character in solo leveling

 

[Woggleman]

Great episode but I do wonder how the town missed a massive hoarde right under them laying dormant.

Also wouldn't they wake up in warmer months. If they can rebuild they should put some kind of spikes on the walls so the infected get shredded when they slam into it.

 

[Represent.]

Dat IMDB rating. 9.5/10 with 22000 votes!

Proof gamers are clueless when it comes to story and writing (and casting). Hell, many gamers will tell you they literally don't like story in their games. Checks out.

Mature TV audience:

- No death threats
- Community is not toxic
- No harassment aimed at Abby's actor.
- No harassment at Bella (its ALL from the gamers)
- No harassment aimed at Craig Mazin or Neil Druckmann.
- Highest rated episode of the series
- TV Youtubers (equivalent of gaming Youtube) are all positive. Gaming YouTube was an insanely toxic embarrassment when this happened.
- People discussing the events in a civilized manner, like normal people.

Immature gaming audience:

- Endless death threats to Neil, and Laura Bailey
- The most toxic discourse in the history of entertainment
- Everything the studio makes is now full of hate comments in every comment section online
- If you like the game, you're woke
- "Neil Cuckmann"
- Review bombed to fucking hell
- Gaming YouTubers had this hivemind mentality where they all had to say its the worst game ever made.

Same story, two completely different reactions. One from a mature HBO audience, used to shows like The Wire, Succession and Euphoria - The other from man children who hate stories in games and value how an actor looks over how she fucking acts.

It is what it is. Gamers simply couldn't handle this fucking game.

Neil Druckmann still has people discussing the moral dilemmas of the story 5 years later, in 2 different mediums now. Imagine if he had played it safe like gamers wanted him to. LOL

 

[SlimySnake]

Man Ellie actor is distracting, like a South Park character in solo leveling

I think they know they cast poorly too. It's probably why they turned Dina's character into a mini ellie with those same mannerisms, same cheeky smiles and teasing looks that made Ellie so instantly likeable in the game. They know Bella's Ellie cant carry an entire season.

its so frustrating because there are so many young actresses that wouldve been perfect as Ellie. Dina's actress is far more accomplished than Bella with many great roles showing far bigger range than Bella ever did in Game of Thrones. She was phenomenal in Sicario 2 and Instant Family as a teenage girl. Everyone keeps going on about the Alien Romulus actress and while ive only seen her in Civil War, she wouldve been a better choice too. And of course, the Abby actress has now shown how much better of an actress she is compared to Bella. She was rumored to be the frontrunner for Ellie iirc.

I am full on team Abby just because of the actress. I hated that bitch in the game. People dont realize it but looks play a huge role in making you sympathize with characters. Neil turned Abby into a retarded yetti looking character and thankfully the show's done the complete opposite. She looked badass killing joel which is something i never thought i would say as a huge Joel fan.

 

[Woggleman]

The Hillcrest section has potential to become a great action sequence.

 

[12Goblins]

honestly I think the pedro casting is just as bad as bella. his hair is absurd

 

[SlimySnake]

Proof gamers are clueless when it comes to story and writing (and casting). Hell, many gamers will tell you they literally don't like story in their games. Checks out.

- No death threats
- Community is not toxic
- No harrassment aimed at Abby's actor.
- No harrassment aimed at Craig Mazin or Neil Druckmann.
- Highest rated episode of the series
- TV Youtubers (equivalent of gaming Youtube) are all positive. Gaming YouTube was an embarrassment when this happened.
- People discussing the events in a civilized manner, like normal people.

It is what it is. Gamers simply couldn't handle this fucking game.

Neil Druckmann still has people discussing the moral dilemmas of the story 5 years later, in 2 different mediums now. Imagine if he had played it safe like gamers wanted him to. LOL

Ask John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Rian Jonson and the entire cast of the new cast of Star Wars trilogy if the movie community is not toxic.

These guys boycotted fucking Sleeping Beauty because she was not pretty just two weeks ago lmao.

They have legit run hate campaigns against Pixar movies just because of a gay kiss, actually more of a smooch or a sub second peck in a montage sequence. Meanwhile gamers celebrated Ellie literally sticking her tongue down Dina's throat at an E3 conference. one of the most well received E3 demos of all time. Disney has literally cancelled the Tangled live action remake because of hate campaigns by youtubers and death threats on twitter.

Go check the IMDB ratings of the two gay episodes from the first season. They both got hate campaigns. even though left behind was received very positively by the gaming community some 10 years ago.

The audience for both IMDB and Gaming are literally the same. It's the same bunch of perennially online guys like us. They rated the previous episode poorly because it was poor. This episode was awesome, fixed many of the issues they brought up that your people ignored for 5 years, labeling anyone who brought up those issues as toxic, and guess what the episode got great reviews. its not rocket science. Neil's version simply sucked. If it didnt, they wouldnt have changed so many things about it.

 

[SlimySnake]

honestly I think the pedro casting is just as bad as bella. his hair is absurd

Yep. I said this years ago when he was cast, but everyone loved Pedro.

I think the fact that people arent up in arms over his death is because pedro was simply a poor Joel. Ellie, Pedro, Sam, Bill, David, Marie were all poorly cast in the first season.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Proof gamers are clueless when it comes to story and writing (and casting). Hell, many gamers will tell you they literally don't like story in their games. Checks out.

Mature TV audience:

- No death threats
- Community is not toxic
- No harassment aimed at Abby's actor.
- No harassment aimed at Craig Mazin or Neil Druckmann.
- Highest rated episode of the series
- TV Youtubers (equivalent of gaming Youtube) are all positive. Gaming YouTube was an insanely toxic embarrassment when this happened.
- People discussing the events in a civilized manner, like normal people.

Immature gaming audience:

- Endless death threats to Neil, and Laura Bailey
- The most toxic discourse in the history of entertainment
- Everything the studio makes is now full of hate comments in every comment section online
- If you like the game, you're woke
- "Neil Cuckmann"
- Review bombed to fucking hell
- Gaming YouTubers had this hivemind mentality where they all had to say its the worst game ever made.

Same exact story sequence, two completely different reactions. One from a mature HBO audience, the other from man children.

It is what it is. Gamers simply couldn't handle this fucking game.

Neil Druckmann still has people discussing the moral dilemmas of the story 5 years later, in 2 different mediums now. Imagine if he had played it safe like gamers wanted him to. LOL

I think there is so much incentive towards API based user review scores. I think it would be cool to create a site where you can link subscription services, theaters, and gaming accounts to the review site and use this to confirm someone has consumed the product or even has access to consume the product.

Surprised that this hasn't happened already since review bombing can only hurt these platforms.

 

[GymWolf]

Grown man, probably in his 30s or 40s talking like a high school football jock from an 80s film lmao

Some of you guys are looking *way* worse out of this than Bella Ramsey does.

Try to visualize the smallest quantity of fucks given and now detract 100 to that number.

 

[GymWolf]

Yep. Almost all of Ellie's Seattle campaign is full gameplay. The only story beats are dina getting morning sickness and Jesse showing up. Nothing else happens until the end.

Abby's storyline has an actual plot which eventually results in the island invasion. She also has to take care of the kids, and has some drama going on with Owen they can cover for a few episodes. But Ellie and Dina do nothing but move forward for 3 days. there is definitely no 20 hours of story here. 15 maybe if you include the post Seattle scenes.

Dude they made an hour long episode for the gay couple, you underestimate how much blood they can squeeze from rocks.

 

[viveks86]

People dont realize it but looks play a huge role in making me sympathize with characters.

Fixed that for you. Team Abby existed before the show, you know? And it's not because they thought she was hot. I thought she was hot, but that's just me.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Grown man, probably in his 30s or 40s talking like a high school football jock from an 80s film lmao

Some of you guys are looking *way* worse out of this than Bella Ramsey does.

You're not lying...

 

[SlimySnake]

Fixed that for you. Team Abby existed before the show, you know? And it's not because they thought she was hot. I thought she was hot, but that's just me.

I am talking in general. I am well aware that there are Bella defenders in this very thread. Some people like to smell farts and watch girls piss on pornhub. I am well aware people have bad taste.

Abby, Manny, Nora, Dina, Mel, Jesse, are all unlikeable in the game. But im sure you will find fans of them on twitter. I couldnt care less. Neil went out of his way to make Abby unlikeable with the way he designed her face, body, her personality, and the way he constructed her storyline. They have done a complete 180 for her in the show which is why i like her. She's attractive, more sympathetic thanks to her motivations being properly laid out before the season, better acted, and is far more charismatic than the clown they have hired for Ellie.

Just compare her reaction to joel getting the final blow in the game. Ashley Johnson/ND artists did a far better job. She just screams like a moron because she has no range. Katelyn Dever in that scene exposed her for the fraud she is.

 

[viveks86]

Goes to show the difference between a childish gaming audience and a tv audience.

The episode had everything that makes good tv.

Proof gamers are clueless when it comes to story and writing (and casting). Hell, many gamers will tell you they literally don't like story in their games. Checks out.

Mature TV audience:

- No death threats
- Community is not toxic
- No harassment aimed at Abby's actor.
- No harassment aimed at Craig Mazin or Neil Druckmann.
- Highest rated episode of the series
- TV Youtubers (equivalent of gaming Youtube) are all positive. Gaming YouTube was an insanely toxic embarrassment when this happened.
- People discussing the events in a civilized manner, like normal people.

Immature gaming audience:

- Endless death threats to Neil, and Laura Bailey
- The most toxic discourse in the history of entertainment
- Everything the studio makes is now full of hate comments in every comment section online
- If you like the game, you're woke
- "Neil Cuckmann"
- Review bombed to fucking hell
- Gaming YouTubers had this hivemind mentality where they all had to say its the worst game ever made.

Same story, two completely different reactions. One from a mature HBO audience, used to shows like The Wire, Succession and Euphoria - The other from man children who hate stories in games and value how an actor looks over how she fucking acts.

It is what it is. Gamers simply couldn't handle this fucking game.

Neil Druckmann still has people discussing the moral dilemmas of the story 5 years later, in 2 different mediums now. Imagine if he had played it safe like gamers wanted him to. LOL

Like SlimySnake pointed out, I wouldn't let the TV audience completely off the hook. They can be just as vicious. But in this case, it does seem like they may be getting drowned out by the regular, normie, mainstream audience. For every review bomb, there are 10x more people praising it. You can see a 2 to 3x favor in the upvote/downvote trends as well.

 

[SlimySnake]

Dude they made an hour long episode for the gay couple, you underestimate how much blood they can squeeze from rocks.

Right. im sure they will have some filler episodes. The next episode seems like filler based on the trailer.

I think they will that entire episode in jackson as they plot to leave the town. She isnt getting to seattle till episode 4.

i really hope they dont keep Abby off screen like the game until the last scene of the season. id rather they go back and forth because Ellie has absolutely nothing to do until the Mel and Owen scene.

 

[DragoonKain]

Yep. I said this years ago when he was cast, but everyone loved Pedro.

I think the fact that people arent up in arms over his death is because pedro was simply a poor Joel. Ellie, Pedro, Sam, Bill, David, Marie were all poorly cast in the first season.

Compared to the games I preferred game Joel a lot me. He was way more hardened, more cold and cutthroat. But I don't think he was poorly cast. I think they wanted a softer Joel for the TV audience, and if that was their goal I think they picked the right guy. Pascal just oozes "nice" and softie. I question their decision to go with a softer goal in the first place more than I do the casting. The game moments just hit harder for me, because the very few times game Joel let his emotional side out, was truly special, because it happened so rarely.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Like SlimySnake pointed out, I wouldn't let the TV audience completely off the hook. They can be just as vicious. But in this case, it does seem like they may be getting drowned out by the regular, normie, mainstream audience. For every review bomb, there are 10x more people praising it. You can see a 2 to 3x favor in the upvote/downvote trends as well.

Eh, I think conflating star wars fans who have a long track record of toxicity with the tv audience let alone movie audience is a bit misleading.

Star wars fans in this case are much more a kin to gamers than movie goers or tv watchers. Infamously one of the most toxic fanbases.