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HD graphics. Will Revolution be better off without them?
- Thread starter xexex
- Start date
I like "no HD" for Revolution. It lets them run good-looking games while keeping the system reasonably priced.
HD will not be a factor for this generation. Most people won't be able to tell much of a difference betweem 480p + AA and 720p + AA. Most people will be seeing the commercials for games in standard definition. Most of the cheap people buying these $399 26" sets won't be able to tell a difference when they are sitting 15 feet away on their sofas.
HD will be like online gaming was last generation. People will huff and puff about how important it is, but at the end of the day it won't really make a huge difference in the success or failure of any particular console. Like XBL, it will be an added luxury for a niche audience.
HD will not be a factor for this generation. Most people won't be able to tell much of a difference betweem 480p + AA and 720p + AA. Most people will be seeing the commercials for games in standard definition. Most of the cheap people buying these $399 26" sets won't be able to tell a difference when they are sitting 15 feet away on their sofas.
HD will be like online gaming was last generation. People will huff and puff about how important it is, but at the end of the day it won't really make a huge difference in the success or failure of any particular console. Like XBL, it will be an added luxury for a niche audience.
Ned Flanders
Banned
human5892 said:
Fixed.
Mook1e
Member
You sound way to much like a standard Nbot.border said:
You have no idea how much money is supposedly being saved by excluding HD, if any.
HD will be like online gaming was last generation? Ok, so no optical media put Nintendo in second place with PS1, no online put Nintendo in 3rd place with Xbox, what's no HD going to do?
I'm not going to say something stupid like "3rd party" but it's way past getting tiresome seeing N-bots eat Nintendo's $#!t sandwitches with a smile like this.
Servizio
I don't really need a tag, but I figured I'd get one to make people jealous. Is it working?
Question, regarding HD making a difference for gameplay: When I play a FPS on my computer, things in the distance get progressively ittier and bittier as the resolution goes down. People become squiggly little pixel messes rather than blurry silhouetes, and the landscape gets foggier and blurrier. Won't it be the same for standard TV vs. HDTV? Won't the limitation to 480 mean it'd be pointless to make games on a bigger scale simply because you won't be able to see as far? I can definitely see that being an issue in an FPS or, say, Pilotwings.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Here's my prediction: No HD will give Revolution a jump start next gen. Some people will buy the system thinking the graphics are comparable to 360 & PS3. By 2008 - 2009 more people will own HDTV's and the Revolution won't even be a consideration. 2011, the next next gen will come out, so Revolution will essentially be dead for a year to two years. Rev will lack many games because of this much like online did this gen. This is restarded speculation though. No one knows what Rev will do.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
border said:
You do know that the Ati GPU in the Revolution CAN do HD resolutions without any problems right? Its Nintendo opting not to have any HD games at all.
You don't have to build hardware with enough bandwidth to run at high resolutions. Of course it saves money on memory and R&D. Xbox360 would have a cheaper production cost without that embedded RAM, to be sure.Mook1e said:
You actually think lack of online had anything to do with GameCube's mediocre performance? :lol Then why is it only doing moderately worse than the console with the biggest online component?
Poor software support and shitty console design screwed up the GameCube. Online play is mostly irrelevant.
HD-support might be better-likened to Dolby 5.1 support, since they are both fidelity upgrades and not something that affects the ways and methods that a game is played. Like surround-sound, it will be an important feature only for the handful of people with enough expensive equipment to appreciate it......and most folks won't give a damn.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
border said:
I personally think that Dolby 5.1 is much more than a fidelity upgrade (which is what HD purely is). Playing a FPS with Dolby 5.1 changes the gaming aspect by alot. Having sounds engulf and surround you by using Dolby 5.1 immerses you in the game.
I understand your sentiments about HD though.
Mook1e
Member
The hardware ATI developed for Nintendo can do HD fine.border said:
And you think the buzz around online and Gamecube's lack of that feature didn't have anything to do with Gamecube's performance?
HD-support does affect the way a game is played. Being able to see things in a game you wouldn't otherwise see affect how you play that game.
What expensive equipment are you talking about? HDTVs are cheap as hell and getting cheaper.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Monk said:I see shades of Han_Solo the former Factor 5 employee.
Is that good or bad?
;_;
Mook1e said:
HDTV's are still seen as expensive when compared to a regular sdtv. This wont change until the price of SDTV's are only half as expensive as HDTV's. Sameway like a $2500 car versus a $10000 car(assuming there is no difference in fuel consumption).
EDIT I am talking used cars before people start being smart asses.
Blue Tsunami, I would take it with a grain of salt his information. His specs are very dodgy for the size that the Rev is.
Completely true! You CAN watch Monsters Inc and the like on your SD television, afterall (at 480i), and it will continue to look considerably more detailed and impressive than anything we'll see on PS3 or XBOX360...xexex said:
Obviously, that doesn't mean Rev will achieve that (as you say).
One thing about the whole resolution deal is that the chips used in PS3 and 360 really ARE intended for those higher resolutions. Even with current PC solutions, you'll often find that running at 640x480 doesn't exactly give you a huge boost. 720 isn't a huge deal for these machines (though 1080p certainly would be and I don't think it will be common on PS3) to render.
The cart vs CD is an interesting analogy.
Resolution matters, and it even matters to Live Arcade; although these games all had thier art touched (KICK ASS!!!).
Playing in 720p is just... better. It's only been a damn week, but I am SPOILED with HD already. Tried to play Chaos Theory just to see, and I was surprised how... uh, N64 it looked. Blurred textures and clealy low res overall look. This game was STUNNING imo just weeks ago. Now, vasaline-ville.
And although I would highly recommend the 360 to people with regular TV's, I have been impacted in a huge way. I went to a friends house a few days ago, and hooked up the 360 to their plasma... EDTV (should have been illegal to sell these...). I thought HOLY SHIT this looks terrible!!! My friend was really impressed, but I knew the truth. So in this sense, I guess better HW with 480p could be OK for those non-spoiled folks.
But for people with an HDTV, watching football shows what HDTV can be. And the 360 looks BETTER than anything I have seen on any HDTV channels. They are impressive, but I can control the 360
I agree with Matt in that I am excited about the possibilities of the rev. Nintendo will have something excellent on the system at launch for sure. Only the GC launch was weak from Nintendo's history, and it still had Pikmin and Smash (soon after). Decent.
I just hate to think that on my TV, it will have the smeary vacaline-like N64 feeling compared to the PS3 and 360.
Resolution matters, and it even matters to Live Arcade; although these games all had thier art touched (KICK ASS!!!).
Playing in 720p is just... better. It's only been a damn week, but I am SPOILED with HD already. Tried to play Chaos Theory just to see, and I was surprised how... uh, N64 it looked. Blurred textures and clealy low res overall look. This game was STUNNING imo just weeks ago. Now, vasaline-ville.
And although I would highly recommend the 360 to people with regular TV's, I have been impacted in a huge way. I went to a friends house a few days ago, and hooked up the 360 to their plasma... EDTV (should have been illegal to sell these...). I thought HOLY SHIT this looks terrible!!! My friend was really impressed, but I knew the truth. So in this sense, I guess better HW with 480p could be OK for those non-spoiled folks.
But for people with an HDTV, watching football shows what HDTV can be. And the 360 looks BETTER than anything I have seen on any HDTV channels. They are impressive, but I can control the 360
I agree with Matt in that I am excited about the possibilities of the rev. Nintendo will have something excellent on the system at launch for sure. Only the GC launch was weak from Nintendo's history, and it still had Pikmin and Smash (soon after). Decent.
I just hate to think that on my TV, it will have the smeary vacaline-like N64 feeling compared to the PS3 and 360.
Mook1e
Member
It really depends on the TV. For big screens (rear projection) the prices are pretty close.Monk said:HDTV's are still seen as expensive when compared to a regular sdtv. This wont change until the price of SDTV's are only half as expensive as HDTV's. Sameway like a $2500 car versus a $10000 car(assuming there is no difference in fuel consumption).
EDIT I am talking used cars before people start being smart asses.
Blue Tsunami, I would take it with a grain of salt his information. His specs are very dodgy for the size that the Rev is.
Even for CRTs the prices are close for an HD compared to an SD.
$300 for a 26" HDTV is not bad compared to $200 for an SD.
Oblivion said:Nintendo's weird. They're thrifty and want to make assloads of money, yet they haven't started on the next SSB and instead put those resources for...a new Kirby.
Stop posting please. They were in pre-production stages. Give them a break. How long did it take to develop SSBM? They know what they're doing.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
It doesn't have HDTV. It doesn't have comparable horsepower. THen What the fuck does it do? Sounds like nothing much; a real piece of shit!! Why the hell do you have ATi and IBM making your chips if alkl you want is SHIT 4 HARDWARE?? Why? why? why?! WHY?! It's being released TWO-THOUSAND AND FUCKIGN-SIX... haw much can it cost to get decent hardware in the year TWO-THOUSAND AND FUCKIGN-SIX???
wow.
*cires*
hyp
Member
i'm definitely getting a rev. but no HD support will be a huge letdown. it's bad enough going from a nice crisp 720p x360 game then playing something on my ps2 or xbox1. it's definitely a sight for sore eyes.
maybe it's just the graphics whore in me. but the next generation without HD is like losing your virginity and gaining it back.
maybe it's just the graphics whore in me. but the next generation without HD is like losing your virginity and gaining it back.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
what i dont get.. is that if the xbox1 has been able to display certain games at 720p .. why wont the rev as well? is nintendo basically saying that they wont be forcing 720p as the standard.. but whats stopping a dev from doing it anyway.. the rev will definitely be more powerful than xbox1.. so... someone enlighten me please.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I think the only thing that can prevent NIntendo from going through with this bonehead decision is if people actually started picketing outside NOA headquaters. Now THAT would get Reggie's attention.
Even the Xbox1 can "do HD", but doing it without having visual fidelity or performance take a big hit is something different altogether. Excluding HD allows Nintendo to bump up graphics quality in areas that more gamers can appreciate. HD costs money or it costs performance....if it were free, of course Nintendo would do it.
Online was hardly a factor at all in the console wars, really. The "buzz" was limited to message board arguments and it seems pretty clear that online was not a factor for the mainstream. 80-90% of Xbox owners don't bother with it. Adoption rate is even lower on PS2. Sequels with online modes mostly don't even sell as well as their offline prequels. Most games that focus themselves on online don't do particularly well either. Most of the "huge titles" that determined the flow of the console wars were offline (GTA3, Halo 1, MGS, Splinter Cell, etc).]
Being able to "see stuff more clearly" is a a pretty marginal difference (in terms of how the game is actually played) when comparing HD to standard definition. Halo in 720p is essentially the same game as it was in 480p. HD does not open up entirely new modes of play like online support does, which is why comparing HD to online play is not particularly helpful.
HDTVs are getting cheaper, but then again prices on home theatre systems have plummeted, but still nobody seems to care that they are poorly supported by PS2 and GameCube.
What benchmarks are you looking at? It's getting tough to find sites that still do benchmarks for 640x480, but even looking at stuff like Even with current PC solutions, you'll often find that running at 640x480 doesn't exactly give you a huge boost.[/quote]What benchmarks are you looking at? It's getting tough to find sites that still do benchmarks for 640x480, but even looking at stuff like [URL=http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2556&p=4]this card review you can see a pretty huge performance differential between 800x600 and 1280x960. The benefit of lower resolution would only be more pronounced if you benchmarked at 640x480.
The huge difference with the DS is that Nintendo controls all the hardware involved with the system. From the control configuration to the display. They dictate what everyone has to use . Revolution is much different situation because Nintendo has zero control over the display devices people buy and HDTV is coming in a big way. They need to make a change in their policy. 2005 it doesn't matter. 2006 it is going to be an iffy situation. By 2008 the decision will make them look foolish.
Remember HDTV is not only resolution, but also screen format too (Widescreen). Even if someone has the el cheapo 299 26 inch walmart special they are going to want to know why Revolution games need to be have black vertical bars or need to be stretched out when X360 and PS3 games fit fine.
Remember HDTV is not only resolution, but also screen format too (Widescreen). Even if someone has the el cheapo 299 26 inch walmart special they are going to want to know why Revolution games need to be have black vertical bars or need to be stretched out when X360 and PS3 games fit fine.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
Jesus Christ, lots of Nintard denial in here...as if there'd be anything else.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Dude, the DS was a BIG improvement over the GBA.dark10x said:
Code:
Resolution of GBA == 38,400 pixels
Resolution of Nds == 98,304 pixels
Improvement == 256%Can we wasy the same about the GCN >> NRv?
Code:
Resolution of GCN == 307,200 pixels
Resolution of NRv == 307,200 pixels
Improvement == 0%Nope.
Except that the benchmarks I just linked to show typically a 25-50% performance increase when you downgrade from 1280x960 to 800x600....performance in a shader-heavy game like Riddick goes from 27 FPS to over 60 FPS. Is that a minimal difference or did you not look at the scores?Mrbob said:
Dude, going from camel shit to dog shit is NOT an improvement...
At least 480p can still look nice. The DS has screens that suck so much that they actually damage my gaming experiences. As I play Sonic Rush I think, "gee, this would be a lot better if these screens were shit".
border said:
Why are you comparing X360 and PS3 GPUS to a bargain piece of PC equipment?
That's an X1300PRO. You are comparing to the low end of the spectrum. I'm talking high end video cards. X360 and PS3 need to be classed up by the X1800XT. Lowest benchmark is 1280 X 960 because nothing below matters.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
I bet the stupid assholes will stick with shit ass Dolby Pro Logic II also.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Prediction: ATi will back out of their contract with Nintendo at the 11th hour for fear of damaging thier reputation as a chip maker. The embarassment of having thier namebrand attached to "Hollywood" will be too much to bare.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
No it can't. Playing through RE4 made me realize that there is nothing you can do to improve the graphyx beyond the immediate area by the character-player. The view in the distance won't look much better without a resoution upgrade. It doesn't matter how much you improve detail if their isn't enough pixels to make the image out.dark10x said:
Notice that computer-animated movies have the characters and scenery up close?
I know you're just typing crap for the hell of it, but what's the fun in doing that if nobody responds, right?Gahiggidy said:
RE4 is a bad example as the game has quite possibly the worst image quality on the GC. It's crap.
CG movies have also often shown us wide open landscapes and the like. You do not necessarily need high levels of detail (in terms of resolution) in order to create something amazing looking either.
I have a 27 inch SDTV that's nothing special.
Tonight I tested Gahiggidy's theory by looking over a cliffside while one of those Kameo battle sequences was happening. HOLY CRAP. There was a huge amount of detail that I had never seen last generation. I'm not saying that every game wouldn't look a thousand times better with an HDTV, but I can tell a difference in faraway detail.
Tonight I tested Gahiggidy's theory by looking over a cliffside while one of those Kameo battle sequences was happening. HOLY CRAP. There was a huge amount of detail that I had never seen last generation. I'm not saying that every game wouldn't look a thousand times better with an HDTV, but I can tell a difference in faraway detail.