I think there are many people who heartily disagree. It's one of the neatest modes in the game, and skill can definitely make up for mediocre drafts on average.
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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
You really seem like you don't enjoy this game at all. Maybe it's time for a break?
BananasWithGuns
Member
Thanks for your concern but I don't need your advice.
It was a lot more fun when draft assisting tools didn't exist. I agree skill can make a difference, but the skill cap on actually piloting decks in arena is fairly low compared to constructed games. Removing the skill of drafting just kinda killed the mode for me too.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Pretty much. Basically everyone is told what the strongest cards are so they always get picked. That's why you see the same cards game in and game out and it essentially comes down to draws and RNG.
It's why I never bother with Arena anymore.
How could this possibly be prevented in pretty much any online game ever, though?
If you play League of Legends, there are websites that tell you the "best" champions or items. If you play Hearthstone, there are websites that tell you the "best" decks or drafts. If you play Battlegrounds, there are websites that tell you all the details about items, or suggested drop locations, or suggested loadouts.
Unless one just stops playing a game when it becomes popular and someone creates a website, I'd welcome suggestions, but I don't see what can really be done. One could also say "Hearthstone is fun when no one knows the meta the first week", but again you can't really enforce that.
what hybris mentions is a very valid criticism, the skill required for the arena is actually bigger in making the deck than actually playing it and since the constructing part doesn't have any wide variables at all (it is basically a big discovery effect) then it is pretty easy to just use a tool to make that skill for me.
I think the matchmaking and the game part of the arena mode isn't the bad thing here, the bad thing is actually how the decks are made.
I've been checking kibler's playthroughs of the draft mode from eternal and while I don't understand a lot of what's going on with the drafting process, that mode is very dynamic, much more than hearthstone, it is based on opening packs from sets and choosing cards based on the different packs and sets opened.
you should since you have a "free ticket" you haven't used yet.
I think the matchmaking and the game part of the arena mode isn't the bad thing here, the bad thing is actually how the decks are made.
I've been checking kibler's playthroughs of the draft mode from eternal and while I don't understand a lot of what's going on with the drafting process, that mode is very dynamic, much more than hearthstone, it is based on opening packs from sets and choosing cards based on the different packs and sets opened.
you should since you have a "free ticket" you haven't used yet.
I'm wondering the same. I'm already at my first ever (free) arena run where I only picked warlock and a deck then left the game before the first match. Hmm.. 🤔🤔
Edit: ah, answered above.
Thx!! Definitely watching this tonight. 👌
Wouldn't that result in the same problem, though? A website or tool could be created to conditionally recommend optimal sets ands card choices.
I guess the argument is that more decisions makes it harder to create a guide for?
I'm giving just a bit of info, there are a lot of thing going on there. Apparently the packs are kind of distributed among different players an each of them chose some while others chose others? I'm not sure exactly how it works, better to ask an eternal expert, but that draft isn't as simple as HS arena.
also, yeah, I kind of think if you can chose, there are always guides available, but the point is making them so complex that you have to actually think what to chose and a machine might have a hard time doing an accurate job
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Stop giving me the Mage deck in this Brawl please
You are right, you can't stop it. Just feels extra bad to me in arena since most of the fun for me was the draft.
Dude, you came here every time and posted something negative, even asking us "Why are you guys still playing this game?" We could say, we don't need your advice.
It's clear that you're already burned out, and TankUP just being nice telling you to take a break, so maybe after taking a break, or after new meta you'd love it again.
Keyser Soze
Member
I guess it is finally time to play my hoarded old Warlock Arena deck now a bunch of randoms might be playing...
I will still probably fail. I will try to at least break 3 wins.
I will still probably fail. I will try to at least break 3 wins.
Infinite Stars
Member
What hell have I unleashed. I drafted a 4+ Free From Amber Control Priest. Turns out Deathwing 1.0 without the Battlecry is decent
Got 12 wins for the first time with mage, got ridiculously lucky several times. Drafted ice block and ice barrier, which really helped me survive, and I had 2 valets for synergy. Also had cabalist tome, pyroblast, and 2 firelands portals.
-won one game with ice block and a second pyroblast from a primordial glyph.
-won one game with gurobashi berserker from firelands portal and the 7 Mana arcane missile that I discovered from a glyph that I got from cabalist tome. He had 3 minions, and I needed 2 missiles to hit face. He had popped my ice block the previous turn.
-was on top deck mode against an insane druid deck for the last 15 turns. He stupidly used nourish to immediately put himself into fatigue, even though he already had 4 cards in hand. I was under 10 health for the last 7 turns, but he couldn't pop ice block quick enough, so he ended up taking 5 damage from fatigue for exact lethal the turn after he popped me.
This game is so stupid.
-won one game with ice block and a second pyroblast from a primordial glyph.
-won one game with gurobashi berserker from firelands portal and the 7 Mana arcane missile that I discovered from a glyph that I got from cabalist tome. He had 3 minions, and I needed 2 missiles to hit face. He had popped my ice block the previous turn.
-was on top deck mode against an insane druid deck for the last 15 turns. He stupidly used nourish to immediately put himself into fatigue, even though he already had 4 cards in hand. I was under 10 health for the last 7 turns, but he couldn't pop ice block quick enough, so he ended up taking 5 damage from fatigue for exact lethal the turn after he popped me.
This game is so stupid.
SonicXtreme
Member
i don't disagree that it's probably going to GET Hof'd eventually, but i do disagree that it SHOULD get Hof'd. No auctioneer deck is broken, particularly annoying (ie uninteractive like QR), or has some busted win rate. soooo tell me why it should get Hof'd? Because jade druid beats certain decks? erm ok
I would love to see that.
alright, got 7 wins with that free arena ticket. got some sick ultrasaur meme value with my mage deck
compare all the turns of the decks auctioneer is included with the turns auctioneer lives. The auctioneer turns, if played well, are devastating and can perfectly change the game. I mean, try to play a miracle rogue without auctioneer, the card is really powerful and pivotal to that deck.
also, don't underestimate the value of drawing cards, drawing 3-4 card with auctioneer is really powerful in any deck with cheap spells. Even if the deck using auctioneers are not that powerful the card itself is really powerful.
compare all the turns of the decks auctioneer is included with the turns auctioneer lives. The auctioneer turns, if played well, are devastating and can perfectly change the game. I mean, try to play a miracle rogue without auctioneer, the card is really powerful and pivotal to that deck.
also, don't underestimate the value of drawing cards, drawing 3-4 card with auctioneer is really powerful in any deck with cheap spells. Even if the deck using auctioneers are not that powerful the card itself is really powerful.
Absolutely not. You need significant board control for bloodlust to even matter. Your early game focus should be on board control. If you stick a mana tide, it's game over.
The Last One
Member
I managed to get 12 wins with the Arena free pass:
Well, 1 win was free though, anyway... I got 2 packs, gold and a epic card. The packs were extremely good, no legendaries but I got 4 golden rares. This is pretty amazing for just 2 packs.
Well, 1 win was free though, anyway... I got 2 packs, gold and a epic card. The packs were extremely good, no legendaries but I got 4 golden rares. This is pretty amazing for just 2 packs.
Eternal's draft is largely based on draft from Magic the Gathering.
You open an actual pack, with 1 Legendary/epic, 3 rares and 8 commons, the actual honest rarity rates. You pick a card, and pass your pack along to the next person, while getting another opened pack from another person. In physical card game, the packs would go round the table, every opened pack comes from the same people until you run out. You then open a new pack, but this times pass cards to the other side, the person who previously handed you packs, will be receiving yours now, and vice versa.
Now, that doesn't quite work in asynchronous draft, so Eternal instead makes it so that you get packs 1 and 3 from Group A and 2 and 4 from Group B. You draft 48 cards total, and from those your deck can use approximately 26-30 of them. So you cut the garbage and nonbo cards to make a cohesive deck with a game plan. Didn't get any Murlocs? Okay, cut the Finja from your deck.
While somehow implementing proper draft in some way would lead to more decisionmaking, you are correct on that it would still be tooled out.
In Eternal and MtG you see, decks aren't hard separated to different classes where one class can never use another class' cards in the deck.
You can't have, say, a Secret Hunter/Mage hybrid. You can't have a Control Warlock with Paladin heal package and Priest removal. You can't have all-classes goodstuff midrange deck that pays for these beaters by maybe not getting to play the cards on curve. There's not enough varying context to evaluate cards in.
The open nature also can balance out the meta. Mage is too popular? Then everybody picks mage cards while actual good drafters pick the cards from less popular classes that everyone is ignoring and have decks with much better card quality.
Yeah it isn't as simple, on top of your own preferences in which cards you want to play, you have to consider the preferences of people who drafted before you. Read "signals"
Several cards down a pack, after all better cards could have been picked, you see no decent Mage cards, but fucking Savannah Highmane is still there? Better shift to Hunter.
Final Spark
Member
Who i have wronged in the universe today ? Queued into 3 aggro druids in a row on ladder, over by turn 4 each game >.<.
veryslowhand
Banned
got a decent shaman draft with the arena ticket, easy win in first match, lets see how it goes.
SonicXtreme
Member
yeah i got to the '9' win level and i faced a deck with murloc > warleader > the 1+1 murloc that buffs, then tirion and 2 volcanosaurs...this why i don't like arena since standard, in wild ppl claim that there was less variety but the wider pool most def made more variety imo, idc if people pick shredder it at least felt like you had a chance with a crappy draft cause everyones picks weren't so predictable. every mage has meteor or glyph every paladin spikeridge steed etc
i love auctioneer, yes the turns are devestating but even at turn 6 they're usually bad unless got crazy ramp, def slow decks, the fact that it takes so long and you have to save cards to get it going and the body sucks are huge liabilities. people don't throw it in their deck when they just have a couple cheap spells you need to build a deck with cheap spells and save during game as liability, and it very obvious when you're playing towards it, its just an archetype not good enough to be busted and the decks are fun to play because turns take such good planning to play well
i love auctioneer, yes the turns are devestating but even at turn 6 they're usually bad unless got crazy ramp, def slow decks, the fact that it takes so long and you have to save cards to get it going and the body sucks are huge liabilities. people don't throw it in their deck when they just have a couple cheap spells you need to build a deck with cheap spells and save during game as liability, and it very obvious when you're playing towards it, its just an archetype not good enough to be busted and the decks are fun to play because turns take such good planning to play well
wittengstein
Member
Every time Blizz runs a promo regarding Arena terrible players just flock to it,its time to profit.A priest player used a potion of madness on my Scaled Nightmare doubled its health and flipped it to hit me for 16 while i had a full board and was on 30 hp,of course as soon as my turn started he conceded when he realized it now had 32 attack,wish i could record it so he/she could take their rightful place on the HS wall of shame.
Also lots of wild decks are around now since yesterday i played a Mage and a Warlock with GvG decks,beat them both but was still annoying.
Also lots of wild decks are around now since yesterday i played a Mage and a Warlock with GvG decks,beat them both but was still annoying.
SonicXtreme
Member
i didn't realize until after mine that it keeps letting you start with 1 win, now is such a ridiculously good time to play arena, i'll def only really play it until this ends, its such an easy boost in rewards. and holy moly is it easy to win in it again, the field isn't good until higher wins which make much easier to rake in equal gold at least
I would agree except the 2x gold is gone, and free arena is only once a week.
I need something new every day to feed my addiction.
They could at least reveal 1 card a day or something.BlackBuzzard
Banned
Ugh standard arena is such hot garbage bring back wild atleast then i didn't run into fuckers with 2 Tarims and a Lightlord.
Karsticles
Member
Did he ping face instead?
He can even trade with minion but he go face insteaf
now this is the explanations I was looking for, thanks, yeah eternal has a more complex and better drafting system, I really think Team 5 could look up to this system to try and make Arena on HS better, as limited as it can get because of the class limitations
I feared that I stared at the tierlist too hard when making my deck but it's going fine so far. Water Elemental into synergy is pretty nuts and I have four of them in my deck.
Why trade when you can go face
Why trade when you can go face
Karsticles
Member
Why do premade decks for this Brawl? Half the fun of any Brawl is experimenting with how to break it.