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[Karsticles]

If they nerf Jade Idol then I want them to delete Skulking Geist from the game.

These are all bad examples because Jade Druid has been a good deck since MSG. We have experienced 3 expansions of Jade Druid already despite it getting a big counter card.

Jade Druid in Wild is mostly just the Standard list only it's balanced in Wild because other decks are just as degenerate or more so. In Standard, you are playing the same deck as in Wild only the competition isn't as fierce. Both aggro and control aren't as air tight so Jade Druid is thriving.

Also Dragon Warrior fell off because they made Execute cost 2 mana. That nerf was a big hit to tempo based Warrior decks all around. Nzoth Paladin isn't much of a thing but Control Paladin is a thing still because of the tools provided in Old Gods. Nzoth Paladin just got power creeped by better slow Paladin decks.

You're right about Dragon Warrior. I was thinking about how everyone complained about Faceless and then Dragon Warrior superceded it. So swap me example to Faceless.

N'Zoth Paladin disappeared completely and Paladin became bottom tier for a while in OG. It wasn't power crept by anything, it was just bad once people learned how to play around it.

It makes sense to wait a month and see how the meta settles. I'm sure Jade Druid will be strong, but right now I have a 0% winrate against Egg Druid and a 50% winrate against Pirate Warrior. So it's not like the game is without answers.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

The next balance patch should be hitting within the next couple of months. I wonder what gets the stick. Still hoping for Jade Idol and Patches nerfs which I had been hoping for since MSG.

How is Patches even nerfable? You either delete the card or leave it as-is.

 

[thepotatoman]

The next balance patch should be hitting within the next couple of months. I wonder what gets the stick. Still hoping for Jade Idol and Patches nerfs which I had been hoping for since MSG.

I'm pretty confident it'll be Aya Blackpaw with maybe Jade Idol as well. Hopefully Patches too, like 2 mana and no charge. Or only summon from hand or 0/1 body for the ultra delete.

It'd be funny if they mana nerf Jade Idol, putting it out of range of the tech card that literally references Jade Idol in its flavor text.

 

[Magnus]

I personally still don't understand how Patches is OP, except in pre-nerf Rogue Quest decks where he'd pop out as a 5/5.

Pirate Decks have never crushed me due to that silly 1/1 that comes out early. It's been the rest of the shit - the endless assault of weapons, 4-attack Charges, and weapon-enhancing cards like Bloodsail Cultist, etc.

In what world does a 2-attack minion pose a threat to a Priest?

By the time Shadowreaper/Raza have been played, I'd wager any Shadow Word: Pain's have been played, too.

 

[Dahbomb]

Shaman was super dominant for an entire year... that's actually the worst example to bring up.

They nerfed Rockbiter, Abusive Sergeant, Tuskar Totemic and Spirit Claws yet Shaman still dominated. It took until the rotation for Shaman to lose its stride. Obviously Faceless is much weaker when you don't have Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem starting plays with the overload synergies.


Most of the cards or decks people complain about in first month have remained strong for quite a while. The opposite example is actually less frequent where a dominant card/deck comes up and the meta adapts to it.

And no one really complained about Nzoth Paladin either, people were actually happy to have a slow deck for once. That didn't even last a couple of weeks when Shamans started with the 477 and Thing from Below non sense.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If they nerf Jade Idol then I want them to delete Skulking Geist from the game.

Only fix it needs is to only delete from the deck.

N'Zoth Paladin disappeared completely and Paladin became bottom tier for a while in OG. It wasn't power crept by anything, it was just bad once people learned how to play around it.

And the best deck turning out to be a double hex deck had nothing to do with that.

Paladin did bounce back with Anyfin Can Happen as well.

Pirate Decks have never crushed me due to that silly 1/1 that comes out early. It's been the rest of the shit - the endless assault of weapons, 4-attack Charges, and weapon-enhancing cards like Bloodsail Cultist, etc.

All if that weakens considerably when they lose board control and can't get a pirate to stick for their conditional upgrade.
You probably lost a ton of games because of that silly 1/1.

 

[thepotatoman]

Hmm. This a hard choice for crafting.

Do I craft Hunter Death Knight because it looks so fun, or do I craft Druid Death Knight because it looks so good.

 

[Karsticles]

Shaman was super dominant for an entire year... that's actually the worst example to bring up.

They nerfed Rockbiter, Abusive Sergeant, Tuskar Totemic and Spirit Claws yet Shaman still dominated. It took until the rotation for Shaman to lose its stride. Obviously Faceless is much weaker when you don't have Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem starting plays with the overload synergies.


Most of the cards or decks people complain about in first month have remained strong for quite a while. The opposite example is actually less frequent where a dominant card/deck comes up and the meta adapts to it.

And no one really complained about Nzoth Paladin either, people were actually happy to have a slow deck for once. That didn't even last a couple of weeks when Shamans started with the 477 and Thing from Below non sense.

SHAMAN was dominant, but not the Faceless. It faded out of play, and before those nerfs happened too.

Only fix it needs is to only delete from the deck.
And the best deck turning out to be a double hex deck had nothing to do with that.

Paladin did bounce back with Anyfin Can Happen as well.

For sure on the second point.

If Geist deletes only from deck...eh. Not sure about that.

Hmm. This a hard choice for crafting.

Do I craft Hunter Death Knight because it looks so fun, or do I craft Druid Death Knight because it looks so good.

I would wait. But if you're desperate to craft, the Druid DK will only matter if you can craft a bunch of other stuff to go with it. The Hunter DK kind of works in any deck Hunter plays, and it IS a lot of fun.

 

[sibarraz]

Weird that a Prince Keleseth Elemental Rogue deck is the only Rogue deck that's seeing big success at the moment according to HS Replay.

https://hsreplay.net/decks/Ab8HBnSOO2rtJF1eo2Gbqe/

And Mage has basically nothing so far.

Now I'm sad that I didn't pull that prince.

Is weird to see a rogue deck wthout eviscerate

 

[Magnus]

OK, I had to break my no-crafting rule and make DK Anduin so that I could play meme Priest.

As with so many 'amazing' HS decks I see posted, this shit always relies on perfect draw. What are the odds you actually get Barnes in your opening hand, mulligan or not? I just built and tried this deck 3 times. No Barnes drawn in the first 12 cards, all 3 times. So inconsistent. =/

 

[Yaboosh]

As with so many 'amazing' HS decks I see posted, this shit always relies on perfect draw. What are the odds you actually get Barnes in your opening hand, mulligan or not? I just built and tried this deck 3 times. No Barnes drawn in the first 12 cards, all 3 times. So inconsistent. =/

It's a meme deck. He called it a meme deck. That's the point. High rolling into a hilarious win occasionally.

 

[Dahbomb]

Faceless definitely faded out of play after the nerfs for sure because in the initial batch of nerfs it was all targeted towards Aggro Shaman, the most dominant Shaman deck at the time. When those nerfs went live that's when Shamans all transitioned to Midrange Shaman which is actively hurt by using Faceless as Faceless is an aggro card.

If Aggro Shaman ever comes back then people are going to go back to putting two 477s in the deck because it's too good not to. Blizzard just nerfed Aggro Shaman to oblivion with the set rotations, nerfs and then lack of aggressive new cards especially overload synergy ones. For the record I don't think 477 is needing of nerfs (as the costs and stats are appropriate), it should never have been made to begin with.

As far as Jade Druid goes... Jade Idol has been complained about since they first revealed the card. Even if that card didn't lead into a tier 1 deck at the start, anyone with some game sense knew this card would lead into long term design and balance issues for the game.

It's really the same thing as Patches, PW may not be the best deck right now but that doesn't mean Patches isn't inherently a busted card. The only reason why both of these cards haven't gotten the nerf yet is because both are soon to be rotated out anyway. It's the Tunnel Trogg conundrum.


As far as how I would nerf both the cards:

Jade Idol: 2 mana Summon 1/1 Jade or Shuffle three Jade Golems in your deck.

Notice the wording here. You get deck thickening via additional minions in your deck not through infinitely created cards. The Jade summon should also be 2 mana because it's 1 mana for the Jade and the second mana for the choice flexibility.

Patches : Make it so that if it's pulled from the deck it doesn't have Charge. The fix is simple here, you make the summon an end of turn effect.

I believe these to be reasonable changes that lower the power of the cards and decks without making them garbage.

 

[manhack]

It's a meme deck. He called it a meme deck. That's the point. High rolling into a hilarious win occasionally.

Yeah played against this a few times. One guy was running mass-dispel instead of spirit lash and it wrecked my board and then he moved into the big stuff. He even pulled Barnes off of shadow essence and still won because if the can clear the board then eventually they start pulling Y'shaarj and all the big baddies.

 

[Magnus]

It's a meme deck. He called it a meme deck. That's the point. High rolling into a hilarious win occasionally.

Oh. Sorry

 

[Yaboosh]

Oh. Sorry

Well it's being played a little more seriously by some folks that just a simple meme deck, but you're still right that it requires pretty early Barnes or summon 5/5 card to get anything going.

Most don't bother with the velen/malygos silliness but that definitely seems like a fun addition.

 

[Karsticles]

Faceless definitely faded out of play after the nerfs for sure because in the initial batch of nerfs it was all targeted towards Aggro Shaman, the most dominant Shaman deck at the time. When those nerfs went live that's when Shamans all transitioned to Midrange Shaman which is actively hurt by using Faceless as Faceless is an aggro card.

If Aggro Shaman ever comes back then people are going to go back to putting two 477s in the deck because it's too good not to. Blizzard just nerfed Aggro Shaman to oblivion with the set rotations, nerfs and then lack of aggressive new cards especially overload synergy ones. For the record I don't think 477 is needing of nerfs (as the costs and stats are appropriate), it should never have been made to begin with.

As far as Jade Druid goes... Jade Idol has been complained about since they first revealed the card. Even if that card didn't lead into a tier 1 deck at the start, anyone with some game sense knew this card would lead into long term design and balance issues for the game.

It's really the same thing as Patches, PW may not be the best deck right now but that doesn't mean Patches isn't inherently a busted card. The only reason why both of these cards haven't gotten the nerf yet is because both are soon to be rotated out anyway. It's the Tunnel Trogg conundrum.


As far as how I would nerf both the cards:

Jade Idol: 2 mana Summon 1/1 Jade or Shuffle three Jade Golems in your deck.

Notice the wording here. You get deck thickening via additional minions in your deck not through infinitely created cards. The Jade summon should also be 2 mana because it's 1 mana for the Jade and the second mana for the choice flexibility.

Patches : Make it so that if it's pulled from the deck it doesn't have Charge. The fix is simple here, you make the summon an end of turn effect.

I believe these to be reasonable changes that lower the power of the cards and decks without making them garbage.

With the game adding things like Exodia Mage, Exodia Paladin, and the new Priest DK, I think people just have to embrace that the game is in a totally different place from where it was a year ago, and it can't go back without major adjustments. Otherwise you're just deleting Jade Druid, which honestly just competes with those combo decks on a roughly even level.

Like...Freeze Mage is fucking fair compared to some of the stuff this expansion is bringing around, and it's with all of the classes. Each expansion has given a new kind of meta power creep (not necessarily card for card, but in terms of overall deck performance), and we're just at the point now where a lot of things that used to be unfair are fair game now, and people need to move past it.

Fuck Priest though.

 

[Magnus]

Well it's being played a little more seriously by some folks that just a simple meme deck, but you're still right that it requires pretty early Barnes or summon 5/5 card to get anything going.

Most don't bother with the velen/malygos silliness but that definitely seems like a fun addition.

Ok, my fourth go with it was fun. Dude had to deal with four Malygos' all told, and then Velen came out for a lovely 14 damage Smite to the face, followed by a Mind Blast. I judged too quickly. That was worth it.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Anyone got any tips how to improve my wild Buffadin deck.

 

[Magnus]

Only fix it needs is to only delete from the deck.
And the best deck turning out to be a double hex deck had nothing to do with that.

Paladin did bounce back with Anyfin Can Happen as well.

All if that weakens considerably when they lose board control and can't get a pirate to stick for their conditional upgrade.
You probably lost a ton of games because of that silly 1/1.

I haven't kept track for sure, but I know that they manage to do really well starting turns with clean boards. I spend each turn cleaning up the board and trying to wrest back control. The 1/1 won't theoretically add too much to that, will it? I mean, a Potion of Madness, Smite, hero power ping, etc. does the trick pretty easily. I suppose that's spent resources for a turn, but it's not a huge drain compared to all the other resources I invest in getting rid of the bigger threats PW dishes out. I just see it as one additional little cherry on top of a nasty pie, not the lynchpin of the deck.

 

[Dahbomb]

I am not too worried about Jade Druid right now personally. I just always disliked Jade Idol. I would be complaining about Jade Idol even if Jade Druid sucked.

The issue right now as to why Jade Druid is on top is that they have actual anti aggro tools right now which is giving them a very stable win rate. Earthen Scales, Spreading Plagues and the Druid hero DK has allowed Jade Druid to have stable win rates across the board, similar to what Midrange Shaman used to have last year. That was always the main weakness of Jade Druid it was susceptible to getting rushed down. Jade Idol didn't help with that but these new cards do.

The other option to counter Jade Druids is to play a faster midrange board spam deck. Something that also puts big minions on curve, like an Shaman Jade plus Elemental deck. Druids still have the one problem of dealing with big boards. If only Grim Patron was still in the game.

I think once the aggro and curve decks are optimized then Jade Druid will go down a bit. Slow decks always come first, the newer aggro decks get refined in reaction to the slower decks.

 

[Karsticles]

Keleseth in an Egg Warlock deck. :-/

Zoo is back alive and well in Wild, BTW.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Anyone got any tips how to improve my wild Buffadin deck.

Dirty rat seems really out of place, maybe try Saronite Chain Gang?

 

[TankUP]

If you're looking to beat Jade Druid, check out Control Warlock. Mulligan for Mountain Giant, play it on 4, win the game.

 

[Yaboosh]

Dirty rat seems really out of place, maybe try Saronite Chain Gang?

And at that point honestly cut the two mana buff minions and loot hoarder and throw in the 2 mana Prince. Still not good but better than those two mana buff guys i think.

This is a heavier list so i think the Prince may provide better value.

 

[kirblar]

If you're looking to beat Jade Druid, check out Control Warlock. Mulligan for Mountain Giant, play it on 4, win the game.

Can confirm this works lol

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Dirty rat seems really out of place, maybe try Saronite Chain Gang?

Ye gonna give it a shot also trying double skelemancer.

Dont own any prince and i think its a costly investment for an experimental deck.

 

[Ladekabel]

Tried Xixos Zoolock with a Dire Wolf Alpha instead of the Prince. Seems good. Hopefully Zoo isn't back though.

If you're looking to beat Jade Druid, check out Control Warlock. Mulligan for Mountain Giant, play it on 4, win the game.

Got a list?

 

[cartographer]

Roping while trying to figure out complicated Defile + other spells clears is a little bit of a rush.

 

[Dahbomb]

If you're looking to beat Jade Druid, check out Control Warlock. Mulligan for Mountain Giant, play it on 4, win the game.

That Druid was at 5 mana and you were at 6 mana LOL!

That wasn't a normal Druid match to say the least.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Never made rank 5 before. Very happy with this!

Spoiler

That's right I scumbagged my way through with Pirate Warrior. No shame no remorse

 

[TankUP]

Roping while trying to figure out complicated Defile + other spells clears is a little bit of a rush.

Yeah, but that's half of what makes the deck fun, solving the puzzles that the game gives you.

Never made rank 5 before. Very happy with this!

Congrats!

That Druid was at 5 mana and you were at 6 mana LOL!

That wasn't a normal Druid match to say the least.

Well, yeah, I'm showing best case scenario (druid with a slow start and I got both Mtn Giants in my mulligan) but in general I think it's correct to say that C Warlock is favored s Jade Druid. They lack good single target removal so Mtn Giant / Twilight Drake can just solo them.

Got a list?

Undecided if I like Hotform's or J4ckiechan's version better. Here's the one in the screenshot:

### Updated: Hotform’s Frozen Throne Bloodreaver Gul’dan Control Warlock
# Class: Warlock
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (1) Mortal Coil
# 2x (1) Voidwalker
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Corrupting Mist
# 2x (2) Defile
# 2x (3) Shadow Bolt
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (4) Twilight Drake
# 2x (5) Bane of Doom
# 2x (5) Despicable Dreadlord
# 2x (6) Siphon Soul
# 1x (6) Skulking Geist
# 2x (7) Abyssal Enforcer
# 2x (7) Bonemare
# 1x (8) The Lich King
# 1x (10) Bloodreaver Gul'dan
# 2x (12) Mountain Giant
#
AAECAf0GBJfTAu0FoM4Cws4CDcQIMI/HAufLApIHF/fNAswI3bwCysMCjQimzgLhBwA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
# Generated by HDT - https://hsdecktracker.net

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I haven't kept track for sure, but I know that they manage to do really well starting turns with clean boards. I spend each turn cleaning up the board and trying to wrest back control. The 1/1 won't theoretically add too much to that, will it? I mean, a Potion of Madness, Smite, hero power ping, etc. does the trick pretty easily. I suppose that's spent resources for a turn, but it's not a huge drain compared to all the other resources I invest in getting rid of the bigger threats PW dishes out. I just see it as one additional little cherry on top of a nasty pie, not the lynchpin of the deck.

Potion and Maelstrom Portal are the cleanest answers to Patches. Of course it's very easy to deal with being a 1/1 but it's a free resource that makes you go up in tempo if it's not met by one of the above mentioned cards.

That's ignoring the advantage that all PW decks are 29 card decks.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Never made rank 5 before. Very happy with this!

Spoiler

That's right I scumbagged my way through with Pirate Warrior. No shame no remorse

Congrats...

Spoiler

I might do this too just to get to R5. I have been winning 2 / losing 2 all day, and can't climb as good as I did yesterday. I am low R7 right now

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Yeah, Golakka crawler is totally out of the meta and Ooze is only in the Highlander decks, Pirate Warrior will probably be very good until the meta settles down.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Just opened Anduin...ugh...i hate Priest and don't really feel like playing him. I would still need Raza anyway.

 

[Otnopolit]

Arena drafts are so fucking busted. Picked Rogue: No weapons, forced elemental synergy, like what the fuck Blizzard? You fixed the rewards and then completely messed up the actual gameplay?

 

[Magnus]

Never made rank 5 before. Very happy with this!

Spoiler

That's right I scumbagged my way through with Pirate Warrior. No shame no remorse

I may have to do the same with either PW or Jade Druid. I only average like 50-60% with anything else, even the almighty new Shadowreaper Raza decks, haha.

 

[wiibomb]

Just opened Anduin...ugh...i hate Priest and don't really feel like playing him. I would still need Raza anyway.

I'm sorry you don't like it, priest might be the most fun ass in HS right now along with warlock and paladin. You might want to give it a chance.

I was going to post that the new cards are making me have a blast with priest. I have come back to win games as raza priest after being literally at 1 HP, it's amazing.

 

[Fewr]

Arena drafts are so fucking busted. Picked Rogue: No weapons, forced elemental synergy, like what the fuck Blizzard? You fixed the rewards and then completely messed up the actual gameplay?

I just had this exact arena run. Rogue + elemental synergy + 1 wpn

 

[rahji]

I am enjoying the heck out of my c'thun druid deck with hadronox. The only problem I have is against priest.

I really love to play hadronox into doomsayer with innervate.

 

[zoukka]

Shadowreaper Anduin is scary as shit. Will be interesting to see if a priest list can stay competitive as the meta settles.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So.... what's the best current broken version of Pirate Warrior. I have no shame.

edit - gone with this... be back soon

 

[Ladekabel]

Undecided if I like Hotform's or J4ckiechan's version better. Here's the one in the screenshot:

Thanks. Hopefully DK Warlock stays relevant or becomes more relevant later on. But first I have to craft him.

 

[TankUP]

So.... what's the best current broken version of Pirate Warrior. I have no shame.

Probably still the Xzirez list, with 2 Bittertide Hydras and 2 Naga Corsair, 1 Heroic 2 Mortal. (rest of the deck builds itself tbh)

 

[slightconfuse]

is freebooter good in pirate warr

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So.... what's the best current broken version of Pirate Warrior. I have no shame.

edit - gone with this... be back soon

3 silences + black knight, just how much taunt are you facing?

 

[Yaboosh]

Eternal servitude doesn't show a minion twice.

So how does the odds that a particular minion will show up work?

With resurrect the amount of times a minion dies increases the chances of it being resurrected. Does the same effect happen with eternal servitude? Does it choose the minions to show based on how many times they've died this game or does each minion that died have an equal chance of showing up with eternal servitude?

 

[Karsticles]

Has anyone tried the Warrior DK in a deck that works like old Math Warrior, but with Arcane Giants, Blood Warriors, and Dead Man's Hands? I wonder if you can get some big cycles going with Battle Rage.

I am enjoying the heck out of my c'thun druid deck with hadronox. The only problem I have is against priest.

I really love to play hadronox into doomsayer with innervate.

Do you mean Hadronox in response to Doomsayer, or with him? lol

Damn it feels good to play Skulking Geist turn six against a Jade Druid. Been awhile since I've seen someone concede that fast after a card drop.

I faced the same Reno DK Priest 3 times with Jade Druid at rank 4, and I won all 3 times. He still had not put the Geist in his deck, which is bizarre to me.

 

[IceMarker]

Damn it feels good to play Skulking Geist turn six against a Jade Druid. Been awhile since I've seen someone concede that fast after a card drop.

 

[TankUP]

Eternal servitude doesn't show a minion twice.

So how does the odds that a particular minion will show up work?

With resurrect the amount of times a minion dies increases the chances of it being resurrected. Does the same effect happen with eternal servitude? Does it choose the minions to show based on how many times they've died this game or does each minion that died have an equal chance of showing up with eternal servitude?

I don't know that answer, but according to Reddit eternal servitude has same class bonus as all discover cards. Seems weird but I guess it makes a certain kind of sense.