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[Allandor]

Even hits like Elden ring lost most of their player base. That happens. Most people buy a game to play it for a while and move on to other games. If that wouldn't happen we would all stuck with old games because there wouldn't be a marked to sell other games.
Also didn't play helldiver's 2 for the last two weeks. Bought a PS5, played ff7 and then somehow Elden ring came back to my mind and I now play it again on Xbox....

To many good games but not enough time to play them all. Real life can be a bitch

 

[Guilty_AI]

Both sp and Gaas have their pros and cons.

Everything you say is a given, but goes for sp as well.

None of what i said specifically is a concern for SP. It's why i said them to begin with.

Sure, but GaaS titles are still products. They're not any different from Elden Ring getting a bew expansion, except that they continue to support a single release instead of moving onto a new title after 1 or 2 expansions/DLC.

There's a huge difference between selling one or two $30-40 DLC and a 10 year support plan. Also, if you keep adding too much content to a specific game there's a real risk of scaring off new players, something that isn't an issue with sequels.

Many potential new players take one look at Destiny 2 store page and give up playing it altogether since it feels overwhelming.

You could make a list for sp games that flopped as well. Probably a longer list than Gaas.

Only because there are a lot more SP releases, they're much easier to make after all. A guy living in his mom's garage can make a SP game on his spare time.

What you're failing to see here is that all the GAAS i mentioned had serious backing and were often made by experienced studios, and they still failed miserably.

Then again, Gaas titles need to prove themselves long-term.

Meanwhile, SP titles don't, making them much simpler investments compared to GAAS.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It's a bit easier to predict sp games break even than gaas games tho.

How so?

Pretty sure Sony and AH know exactly how much revenue they need to break even.
HD2 even far exceeded that point already.

The only uncertainty is how the future unfolds and if they manage to achieve whatever their long-term goals are.
Which we are completely clueless about.

 

[Bond007]

I havent played in a month. Looking forward to hopping back on when im done with what im currently playing.

 

[JCK75]

It's why multiplayer games should always be on more than one platform and crossplatform multiplayer is a must for online games..
Because they did PC and PS5 the playerbased even after that hit is still strong.

 

[Fabieter]

How so?

Pretty sure Sony and AH know exactly how much revenue they need to break even.
HD2 even far exceeded that point already.

The only uncertainty is how the future unfolds and if they manage to achieve whatever their long-term goals are.
Which we are completely clueless about.

Initially yes but gaas environment is wild you can't be sure if your investments after the game launched is gonna end up profitable. You don't need that for sp games.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

None of what i said specifically is a concern for SP. It's why i said them to begin with.

My bad, didn't really bother to read your entire post.
You are actually right on what you said about player retention.

There's a huge difference between selling one or two $30-40 DLC and a 10 year support plan. Also, if you keep adding too much content to a specific game there's a real risk of scaring off new players, something that isn't an issue with sequels.

Ofcourse there's a difference.
I already acknowledged that.

The point was that GaaS titles aren't some sort of service like GamePass, but actual products with long-term support.
So I don't think a statement like "services are more difficult to sell" is appropriate.

Only because there are a lot more SP releases, they're much easier to make after all. A guy living in his mom's garage can make a SP game on his spare time.

and they are also prone to be massive flops if they can't hook the player straight away, which happens to a lot of sp games.

As I said, both sp and Gaas have their own pros and cons.

What you're failing to see here is that all the GAAS i mentioned had serious backing and were often made by experienced studios, and they still failed miserably.

I don't fail to see that.
What you fail to see is that one of the pros a Gaas title has, is the potential make a major comeback.

That's because of the concept of long-term support.

Meanwhile, SP titles don't, making them much simpler investments compared to GAAS.

Yes, but then we run into the issue of rising development cost and increasing development time, which is a major issue nowadays.
Even Nintendo addressed it recently.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Why don't these threads get locked?

 

[Crm114]

Summer time, people have lives outside of gaming, I know shocking.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The point was that GaaS titles aren't some sort of service like GamePass, but actual products with long-term support.
So I don't think a statement like "services are more difficult to sell" is appropriate.

They are very much services, with the same expenses and logistical problems services incur. Who do you think has to spend more resources on user support, Fortnite or Elden Ring? On servers?

and they are also prone to be massive flops if they can't hook the player straight away, which happens to a lot of sp games.

No they aren't, because the vast majority of these same SP "flops" barely cost anything to make to begin with. Unlike GAAS. The only major loss incurred in the majority of these releases was one or two developer's time.

I don't fail to see that.
What you fail to see is that one of the pros a Gaas title has, is the potential make a major comeback.

That's because of the concept of long-term support.

You're now entering the land of muddy GAAS definitions, where you'd classify Cyberpunk 2077 as GAAS because it received tons of post-launch support. Or BG3 which released back in 2020 and spent 3 years on early access.

If you go down that route you'll be saying anything in the digital era is GAAS just because it receives some updates and further discussions will be meaningless.

Yes, but then we run into the issue of rising development cost and increasing development time, which is a major issue nowadays.
Even Nintendo addressed it recently.

And do you think GAAS is above this issue? It costs as much - if not more - to make and release a GAAS title with very very few exceptions. Then there's continuous cost of support which can match that of new games, and the expectations of receiving new content in a timely fashion, lest you want to end like Halo Infinite and have your players grow bored of the game.

The correct solution for this is - purely and simply - reducing costs and finding ways to improve development efficiency. There's too much bloat in modern games no one really cares about, and too much unnecessary bureaucracy in the workplace.

My bad, didn't really bother to read your entire post.

I can see that.

 

[Braag]

I still love the game. But my friend group is playing other stuff right now. I'm sure we will return once the new faction is introduced.

 

[Mossybrew]

I'm sure we will return once the new faction is introduced.

Yeah, I played a couple rounds over the weekend but haven't been playing as much lately, the game is starting to feel a bit stale and that new faction would go a long way to refreshing interest right now.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I uninstalled it from my ps5. I enjoyed my time with it, but I will likely never play it again.

 

[ResilientBanana]

How many people even finished God of War: Ragnarök?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

They are very much services, with the same expenses and logistical problems services incur. Who do you think has to spend more resources on user support, Fortnite or Elden Ring? On servers?

I never said they aren't services.

No they aren't, because the vast majority of these same SP "flops" barely cost anything to make to begin with. Unlike GAAS. The only major loss incurred in the majority of these releases was one or two developer's time.

A flop is a flop, no matter how low production cost was.

You're now entering the land of muddy GAAS definitions, where you'd classify Cyberpunk 2077 as GAAS because it received tons of post-launch support. Or BG3 which released back in 2020 and spent 3 years on early access.

If you go down that route you'll be saying anything in the digital era is GAAS just because it receives some updates and further discussions will be meaningless.

I guess you could be saying that, but it's not me who came up with 'games as a service'.

And do you think GAAS is above this issue? It costs as much - if not more - to make and release a GAAS title with very very few exceptions. Then there's continuous cost of support which can match that of new games, and the expectations of receiving new content in a timely fashion, lest you want to end like Halo Infinite and have your players grow bored of the game.

Did I say GaaS is above the issue?
It's a potential solution to a problem, with it's own problems.

And sure, what you describe is a possibility, but then there's also games like NMS, which releases major updates over multiple years at no extra cost.

The correct solution for this is - purely and simply - reducing costs and finding ways to improve development efficiency. There's too much bloat in modern games no one really cares about, and too much unnecessary bureaucracy in the workplace.

Well yeah, that's a possible solution.
Why don't you email all the gaming companies and inform them about how you solved gaming's biggest issue rn?

 

[Guilty_AI]

I never said they aren't services.

Yes, yes you did:

The point was that GaaS titles aren't some sort of service like GamePass

A flop is a flop, no matter how low production cost was.

You should never open a business if that's how you think.

I guess you could be saying that, but it's not me who came up with 'games as a service'.

You're the one who decided to throw everything slightly similar into the definition though

Did I say GaaS is above the issue?
It's a potential solution to a problem, with it's own problems.

By claiming it's a potential solution, yes, you're somehow implying it doesn't have the same, or some of the same issues SP has.

Even though it has all of them, and more.

And if you think that because GAAS "makes more money", you aren't giving the market a good, proper, look. The window of success for a GAAS title is much narrower than that of a SP title.

And sure, what you describe is a possibility, but then there's also games like NMS, which releases major updates over multiple years at no extra cost.

Hello games is a smaller team with smaller costs and smaller profits, they can afford to release updates at no extra cost and survive on new purchases alone. They're successful for the same reason SP titles like Mullet Madjack also succeed, reduced costs in a game for a reduced audience.

Well yeah, that's a possible solution.
Why don't you email all the gaming companies and inform them about how you solved gaming's biggest issue rn?

I don't have to. The market is already solving itself as we speak. Like i said, with games such as Mullet Madjack, Selaco, Balatro, Hades, and so on.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yes, yes you did:

I said "service like GamePass", which they aren't.

You should never open a business if that's how you think.

It's how business works, if something flops, you come up with something else.

Otherwise I'd be the next Phil Spencer.

You're the one who decided to throw everything slightly similar into the definition though

Like what?
I named a couple of live service titles. No idea what else you're referring to.

By claiming it's a potential solution, yes, you're somehow implying it doesn't have the same, or some of the same issues SP has.

Even though it has all of them, and more.

And if you think that because GAAS "makes more money", you aren't giving the market a good, proper, look. The window of success for a GAAS title is much narrower than that of a SP title.

That's not what I said at all, but if that's your take away, fine by me.

Hello games is a smaller team with smaller costs and smaller profits, they can afford to release updates at no extra cost and survive on new purchases alone. They're successful for the same reason SP titles like Mullet Madjack also succeed, reduced costs in a game for a reduced audience.

Yes.

I don't have to. The market is already solving itself as we speak. Like i said, with games such as Mullet Madjack, Selaco, Balatro, Hades, and so on.

Those games aren't 'saving' the industry.
They probably just cater more towards your tastes.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Democracy can only last so long.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Players are gonna return en masse when the new enemy faction is gonna be released.

Maybe. I’m not.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I guess the hamsters are tired of their running wheels already.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Hi