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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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I'm positive she will launch with too little health and need it increasin shortly after release. They've had to fix that on way too many heroes recently, really feels like a flaw in their balance process.
(Maybe the internal team isn't as aggressive as the player base, so low health values aren't punished as much?)
(Maybe the internal team isn't as aggressive as the player base, so low health values aren't punished as much?)
see: Towers
You may be right. Kael and Jaina can easily score kills themselves, but Li-Ming requires the presence of kills to be at her full potential. Without the activation of her trait, her abilities may not be enough most times to get the ball rolling.
However, in big teamfights, she should have a big impact. A 5v5 without Li-Ming where both teams lose one member and back off, or even one team scores a kill and backs off due to low health could suddenly become huge momentum shifting affairs. Teams are going to have to be a lot more careful when going into a teamfight against a Li-Ming, because she can actually gain power from your team taking an even trade (as long as she isn't the one that is killed).
Edit - Also, she make life harder for Leoric, Tyrael, Murky, and to a lesser extent, Diablo. Due to their traits, these heroes often have the attitude that it isn't such a big deal if they die, or at least, if someone has to die on their team, it should be them. Now, they have an extra reason not to die, as it could actually lead to more immediate deaths on their team.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There's at least a talent that increases them from 3 to 5 missiles.
RumblingRosco
Member
Li-Ming hard counters Murky and TLV.
If both her and necro come out undertuned, where do you go from here?
I'm with brian! in that I feel like due to the backlash for these other heroes being so bad to average at best that they might shoot for the moon with her and/or necro.
If they don't, though, you gotta wonder what the issue is. Doesn't help them make money, and doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the grand scheme of things. And it's not like the recent undertuned heroes have tuned up into real relevancy after the fact. For the most part they were just tuned from bad to okay.
I'm with brian! in that I feel like due to the backlash for these other heroes being so bad to average at best that they might shoot for the moon with her and/or necro.
If they don't, though, you gotta wonder what the issue is. Doesn't help them make money, and doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the grand scheme of things. And it's not like the recent undertuned heroes have tuned up into real relevancy after the fact. For the most part they were just tuned from bad to okay.
I'd buy that argument if it weren't for Greymane. He's a fantastically designed character, but he is woefully ill-equipped for the current environment (particularly with the shared cooldown on dark flight / disengage / heroics). If they were going to start bumping characters up surely he would have recieved some love first, gven they were already coming off the back of bad run of heroes?
I honestly just don't think their balance team has a good grip on things. We know Dustin is a rank 20 ish player, that their balance team is small, and it feels like they play very passively compared to the general playerbase. they keep getting the basic numbers wrong on heroes, and iven that loses them money cannot imagine it's just a slight oversight.
Of course, if we had bans, and a restriction on heroes being played in hero league when first released (Like every single other MOBA in existence) it wouldn't matter and they could release OP heroes.
I honestly just don't think their balance team has a good grip on things. We know Dustin is a rank 20 ish player, that their balance team is small, and it feels like they play very passively compared to the general playerbase. they keep getting the basic numbers wrong on heroes, and iven that loses them money cannot imagine it's just a slight oversight.
Of course, if we had bans, and a restriction on heroes being played in hero league when first released (Like every single other MOBA in existence) it wouldn't matter and they could release OP heroes.
I think release balance is less of a concern now that they have decided to patch more frequently (will it happen tho), getting a hero right on release is really difficult. Heroes like bw, stitches, and lunara are starting to show up (+ medic i guess), and not all heroes will be meta appropriate on the outset. What i care about more is gud design, but gotta see how the wiz biz works in practice. Her kit seems really straightfoward which can be good or bad iunno
Theyd do well to follow leagues example and get input from high mmr ppl when considering changes tho, im still in the school that outside of toxic all-around stuff (like nova being able to oneshot everything or abathur/azmo cheese style stuff) balance should be mainly considered around ppl who can actually utilize heroes correctly
Theyd do well to follow leagues example and get input from high mmr ppl when considering changes tho, im still in the school that outside of toxic all-around stuff (like nova being able to oneshot everything or abathur/azmo cheese style stuff) balance should be mainly considered around ppl who can actually utilize heroes correctly
What if it was reduced to 1 second and a talent was added (not sure what tier) to get it back to 1.5? That way, he has to give something up in order to get that stun.
There's actually a talent right now to turn it into a 2 second stun - but its at level 13, where it's never going to be taken in a million years.
KT has some interesting and fun stun talents in his kit, but they will never be taken whilst he relies on talents for damage. It's the difference between him and Jaina, and why his talent tree is dreadful and hers ace. He relies on talents to be effective, she uses talents to change her style of play.
They need to boost his base damage, and basically remove the damage increasing talents at 7 and 13. Then we'll start to see changes to his playstyle.
KT has some interesting and fun stun talents in his kit, but they will never be taken whilst he relies on talents for damage. It's the difference between him and Jaina, and why his talent tree is dreadful and hers ace. He relies on talents to be effective, she uses talents to change her style of play.
They need to boost his base damage, and basically remove the damage increasing talents at 7 and 13. Then we'll start to see changes to his playstyle.
They should just remove him from the game. Problem solved. Replace him with the real KT - Kel'Thuzad.
millyyyyyyyyy
I kinda regret getting the Leoric bundle with his Vyrkul skin when he was first released. I don't play him much, but I know that I'm a) about to instantly buy the hell out of his Space Lord Leoric skin, b) gonna play the hell out of him and c) will likely never use another skin on him again.
Cool additions to the replay stats: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/19991410
Hopefully they'll incorporate these into pro games. More post-game numbers!
Hopefully they'll incorporate these into pro games. More post-game numbers!
I think you need to give new heroes quite a bit of time after release before judging them as good/bad.
Leo and monk were both said to be bad (medic too even) on release but are actually pretty good. The thing with assassins that's not the same for tanks/supports is that there's no like mandatory must have one X like there is for tanks/supports. Everything kind of works in the damage role so there's no need to play any newly released hero in those roles. Where as if you don't get uther you're only like one step away from going medic. And it took medic a long time to see play anyway.
I think they need to fix the support meta and add more bans to competitive before we see assassin meta really changing much
Leo and monk were both said to be bad (medic too even) on release but are actually pretty good. The thing with assassins that's not the same for tanks/supports is that there's no like mandatory must have one X like there is for tanks/supports. Everything kind of works in the damage role so there's no need to play any newly released hero in those roles. Where as if you don't get uther you're only like one step away from going medic. And it took medic a long time to see play anyway.
I think they need to fix the support meta and add more bans to competitive before we see assassin meta really changing much
Medic got real good after the scaling changes eliminated her early game mana/throughput issues.
Heroes need to be more specialized. "Jack of all trades you can spec X or X" doesn't work with this game- you either get the current Tass/Tyrande situation or you get Uther featuring a bunch of tank talents he'll never use. Talents should be knobturns- you can make Sonya tankier, sure, but she's still Sonya.
Heroes need to be more specialized. "Jack of all trades you can spec X or X" doesn't work with this game- you either get the current Tass/Tyrande situation or you get Uther featuring a bunch of tank talents he'll never use. Talents should be knobturns- you can make Sonya tankier, sure, but she's still Sonya.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Benediction has to go on Uther.
I don't understand what they were thinking with that talent.
He needs a complete talent rework in general.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
PTR patch right now. 4GB
"You know how Uther's base kit is so amazing people aren't taking any talents improving them? Let's give him a skill that let's him use one of them twice in a row and for free"
"You know how Uther's base kit is so amazing people aren't taking any talents improving them? Let's give him a skill that let's him use one of them twice in a row and for free"
questionmark
Member
Benediction needs to stay.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Leo was viewed as bad **before* release. Everyone was thinking we didn't need another bruiser and his abilities didn't look great. He didn't have the issues monk had - it was apparent on day one how strong he was. I vividly remember my first game with him and realising I was bullying the *crap* out of a Nazeebo without any effort at all.
Monk is the only hero I can think of who people thought was weak in release, didn't have any changes at all, and then was discovered to be strong.
Monk is the only hero I can think of who people thought was weak in release, didn't have any changes at all, and then was discovered to be strong.
[Trait] Critical Mass - Trait Getting a Takedown will refresh the cooldown on all of your Abilities.
[Q] Magic Missiles - 20 Mana Cooldown: 3 seconds Fire three missiles toward an area, each dealing 293 ( 153 + 3.5% per level) damage to the first enemy hit.
[W] Arcane Orb - 50 Mana Cooldown: 10 seconds Fire an orb that powers up as it travels, dealing 271 ( 155 + 3% per level) damage to the first enemy hit. The amount of damage dealt is increased the further it travels, up to 813 ( 464 + 3% per level) damage.
[E] Teleport - 30 Mana Cooldown: 5 seconds Teleport a short distance instantly.
[R] Disintegrate - Cooldown: 0.5 seconds Channel a powerful beam, dealing 467 ( 185 + 5% per level) damage per second to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.
[R] Disintegrate - 80 Mana Cooldown: 20 seconds Channel a powerful beam, dealing 1168 ( 462 + 5% per level) damage over 2.5 seconds to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.
[R] Wave Of Force - 80 Mana Cooldown: 20 seconds Knock away all enemies from an area and deal 425 ( 168 + 5% per level) damage.
Talent Changes
[1] Aether Walker - Aether Walker If you haven't taken damage in the last 5 seconds, Teleport costs no Mana and its cooldown is decreased by 2 seconds.
[1] Astral Presence - Astral Presence Your Mana regeneration is increased by 100% while below half Mana.
[1] Force Armor - Force Armor When Magic Missiles damages an enemy Hero, you gain a charge of Spell Block, reducing the damage from the next enemy Ability against you by 50% . Can hold up to 4 charges. Can only gain 1 charge per cast.
[1] Power Hungry - Power Hungry Regeneration Globes restore 100% more Mana and grant 10% Ability Power for 20 seconds.
[4] Charged Blast - Charged Blast Basic Attacking a target recently hit by a Magic Missile does an extra 191 ( 91 + 4% per level) damage.
[4] Dominance - Dominance Takedowns restore 25% of your maximum Health.
[4] Ess of Johan - Ess of Johan When Arcane Orb damages enemies, they are pulled toward it's center.
[4] Triumvirate - Triumvirate If Arcane Orb hits an enemy Hero after traveling at least 80% of its base range, the cooldown is reduced by 7 seconds.
[7] Calamity - Calamity Teleport does 542 ( 309 + 3% per level) damage to enemies near your destination.
[7] Seeker - Seeker If three Magic Missiles hit the same target, the third one deals an additional 274 ( 130 + 4% per level) damage.
[7] Zei's Vengeance - Zei's Vengeance Arcane Orb does an additional 25% more damage to enemies far away, but will deal 25% less damage to enemies up close.
[10] Disintegrate - Disintegrate Cooldown: 20 seconds Channel a powerful beam, dealing 1168 ( 462 + 5% per level) damage over 2.5 seconds to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.
[10] Wave Of Force - Wave Of Force Cooldown: 20 seconds Knock away all enemies from an area and deal 425 ( 168 + 5% per level) damage.
[13] Cannoneer - Cannoneer When you use an Ability, increase your next Basic Attack by 75% and cause it to deal Ability damage. Stacks up to 3 times.
[13] Glass Cannon - Glass Cannon Increases your Ability Power by 15% , but decreases your maximum Health by 15% .
[13] Illusionist - Illusionist Cooldown: 5 seconds Increases Teleport range by 50% , and if you lose more than 15% of your Health at once, its cooldown is instantly refreshed. This cannot happen more than once every 4 seconds.
[16] Arcane Orbit - Arcane Orbit Arcane Orb travels 25% farther, doing up to 25% more damage.
[16] Diamond Skin - Diamond Skin When you Teleport, gain 25% of your maximum Health as a Shield for 4 seconds.
[16] Fireflies - Fireflies Drastically increases Magic Missiles speed, and lowers its cooldown by 1 second.
[16] Mirrorball - Mirrorball Magic Missiles fires an additional 2 missiles.
[20] Archon: Pure Power - Archon: Pure Power Cooldown: 10 seconds Activate to enter Archon form, allowing you to repeatedly use Disintegrate, but be unable to cast other Abilities.
[20] Repulsion - Repulsion Increases Wave of Force knockback distance by 150% and increases its cast range by 100% .
[20] Tal Rasha's Elements - Tal Rasha's Elements Your Abilities benefit from 20% bonus damage as long as they aren't cast twice in a row.
[20] Temporal Flux - Temporal Flux Disintegrate slows enemies by 60% .
[Q] Magic Missiles - 20 Mana Cooldown: 3 seconds Fire three missiles toward an area, each dealing 293 ( 153 + 3.5% per level) damage to the first enemy hit.
[W] Arcane Orb - 50 Mana Cooldown: 10 seconds Fire an orb that powers up as it travels, dealing 271 ( 155 + 3% per level) damage to the first enemy hit. The amount of damage dealt is increased the further it travels, up to 813 ( 464 + 3% per level) damage.
[E] Teleport - 30 Mana Cooldown: 5 seconds Teleport a short distance instantly.
[R] Disintegrate - Cooldown: 0.5 seconds Channel a powerful beam, dealing 467 ( 185 + 5% per level) damage per second to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.
[R] Disintegrate - 80 Mana Cooldown: 20 seconds Channel a powerful beam, dealing 1168 ( 462 + 5% per level) damage over 2.5 seconds to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.
[R] Wave Of Force - 80 Mana Cooldown: 20 seconds Knock away all enemies from an area and deal 425 ( 168 + 5% per level) damage.
Talent Changes
[1] Aether Walker - Aether Walker If you haven't taken damage in the last 5 seconds, Teleport costs no Mana and its cooldown is decreased by 2 seconds.
[1] Astral Presence - Astral Presence Your Mana regeneration is increased by 100% while below half Mana.
[1] Force Armor - Force Armor When Magic Missiles damages an enemy Hero, you gain a charge of Spell Block, reducing the damage from the next enemy Ability against you by 50% . Can hold up to 4 charges. Can only gain 1 charge per cast.
[1] Power Hungry - Power Hungry Regeneration Globes restore 100% more Mana and grant 10% Ability Power for 20 seconds.
[4] Charged Blast - Charged Blast Basic Attacking a target recently hit by a Magic Missile does an extra 191 ( 91 + 4% per level) damage.
[4] Dominance - Dominance Takedowns restore 25% of your maximum Health.
[4] Ess of Johan - Ess of Johan When Arcane Orb damages enemies, they are pulled toward it's center.
[4] Triumvirate - Triumvirate If Arcane Orb hits an enemy Hero after traveling at least 80% of its base range, the cooldown is reduced by 7 seconds.
[7] Calamity - Calamity Teleport does 542 ( 309 + 3% per level) damage to enemies near your destination.
[7] Seeker - Seeker If three Magic Missiles hit the same target, the third one deals an additional 274 ( 130 + 4% per level) damage.
[7] Zei's Vengeance - Zei's Vengeance Arcane Orb does an additional 25% more damage to enemies far away, but will deal 25% less damage to enemies up close.
[10] Disintegrate - Disintegrate Cooldown: 20 seconds Channel a powerful beam, dealing 1168 ( 462 + 5% per level) damage over 2.5 seconds to enemies while they are in it. The direction of the beam changes with your mouse cursor position.
[10] Wave Of Force - Wave Of Force Cooldown: 20 seconds Knock away all enemies from an area and deal 425 ( 168 + 5% per level) damage.
[13] Cannoneer - Cannoneer When you use an Ability, increase your next Basic Attack by 75% and cause it to deal Ability damage. Stacks up to 3 times.
[13] Glass Cannon - Glass Cannon Increases your Ability Power by 15% , but decreases your maximum Health by 15% .
[13] Illusionist - Illusionist Cooldown: 5 seconds Increases Teleport range by 50% , and if you lose more than 15% of your Health at once, its cooldown is instantly refreshed. This cannot happen more than once every 4 seconds.
[16] Arcane Orbit - Arcane Orbit Arcane Orb travels 25% farther, doing up to 25% more damage.
[16] Diamond Skin - Diamond Skin When you Teleport, gain 25% of your maximum Health as a Shield for 4 seconds.
[16] Fireflies - Fireflies Drastically increases Magic Missiles speed, and lowers its cooldown by 1 second.
[16] Mirrorball - Mirrorball Magic Missiles fires an additional 2 missiles.
[20] Archon: Pure Power - Archon: Pure Power Cooldown: 10 seconds Activate to enter Archon form, allowing you to repeatedly use Disintegrate, but be unable to cast other Abilities.
[20] Repulsion - Repulsion Increases Wave of Force knockback distance by 150% and increases its cast range by 100% .
[20] Tal Rasha's Elements - Tal Rasha's Elements Your Abilities benefit from 20% bonus damage as long as they aren't cast twice in a row.
[20] Temporal Flux - Temporal Flux Disintegrate slows enemies by 60% .
brickwalker0
Member
[13] Illusionist - seems like a staple.
Lots of damage tweaks
Abathur- does more damage with Burst/Needle.
Arthas- Sindragosa does more damage, longer cooldown
ETC- More damage on Stage Dive
Falstad- ShocknAwe - More damage, longer cooldown
Gall- more damage on Twisting Nether along with some talent changes
Gazlowe- some small buffs, likely to try and help while they work on the larger rework
Johanna- Falling Sword shorter cooldown
Lunara- Wisp is less mana and shorter cooldown
Muradin- Lost microstuns on Avatar
Nova- Looks like a major rework.
Rehgar- Got Feral Lunge as a baseline!!!! Looks like a rework to him as well
Sgt Hammer- BFG damage upgrade
Sonya- Seismic Slam damage nerf
Zeratul - Cleave damage buff. Shadow Assault- only 4 seconds, but 45s cooldown
Abathur- does more damage with Burst/Needle.
Arthas- Sindragosa does more damage, longer cooldown
ETC- More damage on Stage Dive
Falstad- ShocknAwe - More damage, longer cooldown
Gall- more damage on Twisting Nether along with some talent changes
Gazlowe- some small buffs, likely to try and help while they work on the larger rework
Johanna- Falling Sword shorter cooldown
Lunara- Wisp is less mana and shorter cooldown
Muradin- Lost microstuns on Avatar
Nova- Looks like a major rework.
Rehgar- Got Feral Lunge as a baseline!!!! Looks like a rework to him as well
Sgt Hammer- BFG damage upgrade
Sonya- Seismic Slam damage nerf
Zeratul - Cleave damage buff. Shadow Assault- only 4 seconds, but 45s cooldown
Nah, not until they actually shave his HP down a tad, and even then his kit's still amazing.
Jesus christ, she better be pumping out damage with that HP.
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