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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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M

Milly79

Member
patchday said:
yeah I just got that entire bundle. Didnt realize Space Leoric was available right now. I love Leoric I always pick him in Hero League
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Any tips for him? I'm awfully bad. Good at surviving (cause I'm so passive most of the time), but I really have no idea how to do any damage as him. I know I should probably be willing to cut ties more since he can cheat death and use his death to an advantage.

I typically go:

Reanimation, Hardened Bones, Paralyzing Rage, Entomb, not really sure what to go at 13, Consume Vitality and Spectral Leech.

Also know he got nerfed pretty hard over and over, so not sure if he's really even that viable anymore without a second tank.

Space Leroic is the best skin in the game. And that Boba Fett tint is HNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG.
 
K

kirblar

Member
So, apparently there's a balance update tomorrow.

Should be all the datamined changes that aren't in the patch notes.
 
C

curlyfriski

Banned
Milly79 said:
Any tips for him? I'm awfully bad. Good at surviving (cause I'm so passive most of the time), but I really have no idea how to do any damage as him. I know I should probably be willing to cut ties more since he can cheat death and use his death to an advantage.

I typically go:

Reanimation, Hardened Bones, Paralyzing Rage, Entomb, not really sure what to go at 13, Consume Vitality and Spectral Leech.

Also know he got nerfed pretty hard over and over, so not sure if he's really even that viable anymore without a second tank.

Space Leroic is the best skin in the game. And that Boba Fett tint is HNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty scrubby but leo is my best hero. I generally go reanimation, hardened, varies on 7, entomb if they lack escapes and march otherwise, crushing hope, drain hope, and either leech, hardened shield or march upgrade at 20. I basically play around getting in the middle of the fight and keeping the drain up. Hardened Bones lets you get away with being pretty aggressive too, especially if your drain is active. I love playing him on tomb and rotating between lanes to use his awesome wave clear to get as many globes as possible.
 
J

jetsetrez

Member
Man, I'm still buzzing from a match I had before bed last night. I played against Chu8, and not only did we win, but when I went back to look at it, I realized TempoStorm ZP was also on their team! They were both streaming at the time too. :) And we won pretty decisively, I really didn't feel like we could lose momentum at any point, despite ZP pulling off some clutch moshes that they just couldn't capitalize on. What an exhilarating feeling to not only play against a pro, but win. :) And to be fair, Chu was playing Abathur, and I think we had a stronger comp, but I still felt very proud.

Also new patch sounds pretty great overall. I kind of can't believe the balls Blizzard has to just fundamentally change heroes and mechanics. Nova is like a completely new hero now, and looks to have a few very unique and interesting talent paths. Wolfing it up as Rehgar sounds like it will be a ton of fun. His buffs sound pretty crazy. Lots of nice QOL stuff too. Really need HL bans. Can't wait for Li-Ming. The Sailor Moon skin looks so awesome.
 
B

brian!

Member
http://www.heroesnexus.com/#official-patch-notes

played nova zeratul cho and abathur, i dont really like what they are trying to do with nova, i don't like shadow assault but the building/minion damage on warp blade is cool, I tried the auto attack build they were hinting at with the patch w/ cho but it's awful, and abathur feels the same

i was slap fighting their abathur and having a symbiote fight w/ our locusts but their rehgar came and one shot me
 
M

Milly79

Member
brian! said:
http://www.heroesnexus.com/#official-patch-notes

played nova zeratul cho and abathur, i dont really like what they are trying to do with nova, i don't like shadow assault but the building/minion damage on warp blade is cool, I tried the auto attack build they were hinting at with the patch w/ cho but it's awful, and abathur feels the same

i was slap fighting their abathur and having a symbiote fight w/ our locusts but their rehgar came and one shot me
Click to expand...

Nova is totally dead. Zera is extremely fun and the AA SA build is gonna be the new hotness I think.

kirblar said:
Muradin stuns being removed is one of em. It's stuff we know already.
Click to expand...

All I know is what came out today, so... And that's with the Li-Ming roll out, no?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Milly79 said:
Nova is totally dead. Zera is extremely fun and the AA SA build is gonna be the new hotness I think.



All I know is what came out today, so... And that's with the Li-Ming roll out, no?
Click to expand...
There are undocumented changes that aren't in the PTR notes. Presumably, that's because they're rolling out tomorrow.
 
M

Milly79

Member
kirblar said:
There are undocumented changes that aren't in the PTR notes. Presumably, that's because they're rolling out tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Ahh, makes more sense now. Didn't know that. Briefly read over it and hopped in playing Li-Ming.

brian! said:
i cant see shadow assault ever being a thing again but im pretty happy they killed the cooldown
Click to expand...

Eh, probably not in competitive unless they have another lock down. But in pleb world? It'll see a lot of play.
 
A

Alur

Member
Yeah, I think you'll actually see SA in pleb games now. Shit is pretty good now, especially compared to what it was.
 
P

patchday

Member
Milly79 said:
Any tips for him? I'm awfully bad. Good at surviving (cause I'm so passive most of the time), but I really have no idea how to do any damage as him. I know I should probably be willing to cut ties more since he can cheat death and use his death to an advantage.

I typically go:

Reanimation, Hardened Bones, Paralyzing Rage, Entomb, not really sure what to go at 13, Consume Vitality and Spectral Leech.

Also know he got nerfed pretty hard over and over, so not sure if he's really even that viable anymore without a second tank.

Space Leroic is the best skin in the game. And that Boba Fett tint is HNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG.
Click to expand...

I'm hesitant to give tips since I just lost my last 2 games with him :(

I go Entomb as well.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I generally go crushing hope and imposing presence on Leoric, followed by spectral leach.

Partly because it feels like he needs all the defensive tools he can get now, but partly because that build turns him into the games best melee dueler. I don't thInk there's a single melee hero in the game who can beat him at 20 with that build, and it's utterly hilarious watching other tanks slowly realise that they can no longer go anywhere near you.

Leoric is a fantastic tank killer, and that build really plays to that.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Love all the salt on reddit about the Nova changes. The patch has been out for less than 24 hours and people are claiming shes "dead" now. Maybe give it a week or two people. Jesus.

The reality is her previous playstyle of instantly deleting heroes was no fun, and turned new players off from the game. That probably isn't coming back. I think making her holo builds more viable is taking her in the right direction. I'm really excited to try her out and see how I can make her work
 
A

Alur

Member
They've yo-yo'd Nova so many times now. She just can't exist as she was and have the game be fun for inexperienced players. And GP needs to go period for everyone IMO. I'm surprised there are that many upset. The cries in the past were always for her to GET nerfed, not to not be nerfed.

Is the Muradin Avatar change coming tomorrow or coming with Li-Ming on the 9th? Do we know?
 
K

Ketch

Member
Alur said:
They've yo-yo'd Nova so many times now. She just can't exist as she was and have the game be fun for inexperienced players. And GP needs to go period for everyone IMO. I'm surprised there are that many upset. The cries in the past were always for her to GET nerfed, not to not be nerfed.

Is the Muradin Avatar change coming tomorrow or coming with Li-Ming on the 9th? Do we know?
Click to expand...

I guess I thought she was fine in the most recent iteration and there many other heroes who could use that attention. Chen, gaz, tychus
 
A

Alur

Member
Oh I agree with you there. I was responding to the post after you, not your post. I don't think she should've been a priority but it was inevitable she was gonna get hit IMO cause people hate playing with/against her so bad.

Everytime she gets up there due to this change or that she gets knocked back down.

Would def rather see the tank killer changes for Tychus they hinted at than the Nova nerf, but I guess not this time.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Ketch said:
I guess I thought she was fine in the most recent iteration and there many other heroes who could use that attention. Chen, gaz, tychus
Click to expand...

In balance terms she was okay. In fun terms she was outright toxic for the game. A fully stacked nova was capable of one shooting people, which is absolutely not what you want from any hero. Doubly so on a stealthed long range character.

She was just terrible to play against, and to me her old design feels the same as murky - something so inherently flawed that if you make it viable in a game, it just becomes horribly unpleasant to play against. The last thing you ever want is for a new player to run into nova in their first games, because you can guarantee they will have a very bad time.
 
M

Milly79

Member
I think she's riparino.

How often do you think someone is going to hit consecutive snipes in a row? Or even take that talent. She has no burst anymore. I hardly ever went gp and could one shot some heroes with the W debuff at 16. You can't even do that now and they put that and 2 other decent talents on the same tier. She'll still help gank, but she's not gonna be doing it alone anymore and that's her purpose.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Milly79 said:
I think she's riparino.

How often do you think someone is going to hit consecutive snipes in a row? Or even take that talent. She has no burst anymore. I hardly ever went gp and could one shot some heroes with the W debuff at 16. You can't even do that now and they put that and 2 other decent talents on the same tier. She'll still help gank, but she's not gonna be doing it alone anymore and that's her purpose.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but being able to solo gank in the way she could was outright bad for the game. I'm fine with that design space being unfilled because ultimately it created bad experiences for people in game that nothing else comes close to.

Nerfing her to the ground and finding a different role for her is fine by me. If that means we don't see her for a while whilst they twiddle the numbers so be it...
 
M

Maledict

Member
Ketch said:
I don't know she seemed fine
Click to expand...

Like I said - balance wise she was fine. But in terms of toxic experiences, she was just awful. If she got her go stacked (say you were running Vikings or murky, or someone on your team fed), it made the entire game unfun for everyone because she was literally capable of one shooting people. It also did really bad things to the new player experience.

No stealthed hero should be capable of one shooting you like that, it's just not good design. She has always been feast or famine because fundamentally it's a bad space to design in, and I'm hopeful these changes shift her away from that and will allow us to see her played more often and without being the awful game experience she had the potential to be.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Nova players are going to be upset about the changes, but everyone else will rejoice. Its an us versus them thing.. you either main Nova or you don't. The people that don't won, and that's what was best for the game. She simply isn't fun to play against, or even play with honestly.
 
Q

questionmark

Member
The new ability and talent icons look amazing. Had no idea how badly I needed this.

icon.png
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
im so out of the loop I didnt even know they announced the diablo wizard

who else did they announce recently? I havent seen any announcements since graymane
 
B

brian!

Member
Lol i wrote a whole big post about nova but was like fuk it

The main thing with her rework, no matter what camp you are in, is that her talents dont make any sense and the synergy is superficial. Her 1-7 is complete dead weight and if ppl think they had a bad time with her in their games before, "welcome to heartbreak" - kanye west

Love the patch tho
 
K

kirblar

Member
brian! said:
Lol i wrote a whole big post about nova but was like fuk it

The main thing with her rework, no matter what camp you are in, is that her talents dont make any sense and the synergy is superficial. Her 1-7 is complete dead weight and if ppl think they had a bad time with her in their games before, "welcome to heartbreak" - kanye west

Love the patch tho
Click to expand...
With Nova "get it out, then fix it" is important because she's just so toxic right now.
 
B

brian!

Member
100% op, just like blizzard to give illidan a buff before wow comes out #somebodystopdustin

Imo she seems more toxic now, but i dunno really, im one of the guys who didnt mind her since i started so i cant really speak on it

Also i dunno if there was some pressing need to go through with it as if we were reaching nova critical mass, but i feel like the best place to get a sense for that would be in the blizzard forums and i dont go there
 
B

brian!

Member
Yep completely counterintuitive, not only is it weird that it's at 7 but there is another talent called explosive shot that would have given nova some very needed utility afer her dmg was gutted but you cant even use it if you get snipe master. Snipe master is 100% trap as it exists. I get the idea, gp had very little risk to the reward, you just piled your burst on someone elses and got a stack, and now you have to put yourself in the shit, but they are so many things inconceivable about it, from it's talent tier placement to the numbers assigned to it

Def the admiral akhbar of talents
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
I never minded Nova but lately she was everywhere at lower MMRs like in more than every 2nd game.
She's a bad character for people at low to average MMRs since they'll never learn to play around her.
Getting rid of GP on her would have been enough imo.
 
B

brian!

Member
In terms of toxicity and feelings of helplessness i feel like ambush snipe was the real culprit, i would have liked a more risk/reward emphasized style of gp since it's low risk as it exists but i dunno if snipe master is that, even if it was at 4 and the values were changed to make it faster
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
I never minded Nova but lately she was everywhere at lower MMRs like in more than every 2nd game.
She's a bad character for people at low to average MMRs since they'll never learn to play around her.
Getting rid of GP on her would have been enough imo.
Click to expand...

I just don't think there should be a champ/hero in any MOBA that is designed entirely around instantly killing people. Just not fun for anyone but the person playing her. Forcing the other team to constantly be staring at the ground around them for blurs is just about the least fun gameplay I can think of. At low/medium levels of play she is a terror, because nobody has the awareness or know-how to know where Nova is (especially in quick match).

The best course of action is try to change her gameplay style, so I'm glad they're at least trying something new. Its only the PTR so people need to just calm down and hopefully they'll find a good sweet spot.

Besides, don't you think it would be cool to have like... TWO viable builds for her? Hell, three??
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
brian! said:
In terms of toxicity and feelings of helplessness i feel like ambush snipe was the real culprit, i would have liked a more risk/reward emphasized style of gp since it's low risk as it exists but i dunno if snipe master is that, even if it was at 4 and the values were changed to make it faster
Click to expand...

At low/medium MMR there is little risk to GP nova. People don't even check builds, either your team is already winning and you get stacks for free or your team isn't winning and you can't hold them. They do camps alone and at too low HP. She really isn't a good character for the majority of the plasterboard, that's simply not particularly good.
 
B

brian!

Member
Yeah, i see them going for it too, but they probably need to rework her kit to make it feasible. She needs an escape if they want to make her skirmishy or for decoy to actually be convincing

Yeah even in high mmr gp is very low risk (the risk that comes w/ playing her for me is that she has no waveclear really)
 
P

patchday

Member
Maledict said:
I generally go crushing hope and imposing presence on Leoric, followed by spectral leach.

Partly because it feels like he needs all the defensive tools he can get now, but partly because that build turns him into the games best melee dueler. I don't thInk there's a single melee hero in the game who can beat him at 20 with that build, and it's utterly hilarious watching other tanks slowly realise that they can no longer go anywhere near you.

Leoric is a fantastic tank killer, and that build really plays to that.
Click to expand...

thanks will have to try
 
A

Alur

Member
So with no ministuns on Muradin, but more HP and a shorter cooldown on Avatar...is he gonna maintain or lose his spot? I vacillate both ways on it. The microstuns are useful for heroes that are evasive (like Kharazim, for example), but I'm not sure that it's a make or break level of usefulness. I definitely will miss them though. I ask because we started playing in HL and I've played only Muradin and it has been awesome for the w/r. He is/was legit OpieOP.

Ketch said:
Someone needs to test seasoned marksman illidan for me.
Click to expand...

Aren't you back in the next few weeks?
 
B

brian!

Member
Sm illidan is booty nevah do it
Illidan has the award for lack of ability to choose other talents probably

I wonder if rehgar rework = more illidan

@muradin id say it's a blow but doesnt touch what makes him op (unstoppable on e, long stun, beefy as fuk, dbl casts of atspd reduction)
 
A

Alur

Member
brian! said:
I wonder if rehgar rework = more illidan
Click to expand...

This would be interesting. I feel like Rehgar is p. damn good on PTR and I wasn't even using the shield talents that extensively. I think we'll have to see how many stuns/cc's get toned down first, but I wouldn't mind if he was at least viable again beyond the few people (like your brother) who really excel with him.
 
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