jaundicejuice
Member
OR they are fully aware of these issues but have this promised schedule to maintain and ship heroes with known issues that they "investigate" and fix at a later date.
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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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OR they are fully aware of these issues but have this promised schedule to maintain and ship heroes with known issues that they "investigate" and fix at a later date.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Okay not knowing when to end got to have bounds. Core at 31% percent 4 of the enemy team dead compared to one of ours. I'm alone at the core dueling myself with a Nova while taking potshots at the core.
In the chat Muradin says we need another boss. 4 frickin people on their team are dead, I could finish the core alone with 2 catapults. Goddamnit learn when to end.
I have Li Ming already at 7, KT is still at 7 and I bought Day 1!
In the chat Muradin says we need another boss. 4 frickin people on their team are dead, I could finish the core alone with 2 catapults. Goddamnit learn when to end.
I have Li Ming already at 7, KT is still at 7 and I bought Day 1!
Sothis Krieg
Member
Yeah, i approve of this message.It is the most frustrating thing especially when this a tight game and your team refuse to end it then you lose the next teamfight and well you lose the game.
On a side note, we encoutered our first toxic "pinger" player , he literally spammed the ping function all the game , just at the limit of the anti flood system. He pinged one of us constantly so we decided to let the ennemy team end the match quickly, what an annoying thing to do.
I honestly highly doubt that blizzard of all companies gives a shit about sticking to a schedule.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Had a weird game today with a toxic player. He said he won't play with me that was like 5 minutes into the game, I died twice but also had 2 solo kills. I was also holding a lane all by myself.
Maybe because I skipped the first curse but it's not like I had no opposing laner and didn't have any issues with the ETC and Tyrande that hadn't budged from their lane since the beginning of the match. Instead of going afk he just always went into the lane we didn't fight in and we were always fighting 4v5.
Also my next biggest pet peeve besides people not knowing when to end is greed, people just can't stop chasing. You got a kill good, great now wait, why you chasing him, no, no, dead, dead. Down a kill. Good Job, totally worth it. Which I can't even say because that could put them on tilt or rile them against me.
Hey all our people are low on HP and mana let's chase all the way to their core, not like they can regen in 5 seconds there.
And ye olde let's fight them instead of soaking when we're already 3 lvls down. Can't do any harm. Yeah pinging me ain't gonna change my position soaking a lane playing defensively.
Which brings us to, playing defensively. Li Ming is all the hype she has near unlimited range why don't we take zero caution and wonder why we're constantly dying.
She's not that hard to play around dodge her skillshots don't stand still proactively fire into bushes/behind walls.
Just 3 very frustrating losses in a row, the kind where you just feel helpless. Had to rant. Unrelated but related my framerate has been tanking real bad in some 5v5 fights.
I can relate. Not much you can do if people whine about being ganked all the time if they're too aggressive while you ping them in advance to GTFO. I also need to stop trying to play Hammer with all those Wizards running around.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There were more than a couple pings that were ignored, game 3 I got so annoyed I started to reply snarkily.
Like "boy who could have predicted that." and stuff.
To be fair though I did call myself bad when I fed myself stupidly, that could be seen as whining.
RumblingRosco
Member
It's amazing how fun Rehgar is by making Feral Lunge a base trait.
After the recent influx of patches and skins and mounts and heroes and all that jazz, I've probably played more Heroes in the past week than I have in quite some time.
It's been a bit now, so recent patch (last few weeks all together) thoughts:
It's been a bit now, so recent patch (last few weeks all together) thoughts:
- New tower/forts/keeps damage buffs - seen more than a few people die to these, including myself. Definitely an improvement.
- Cho'Gall - only played them on PTR but they definitely felt better. So much damage and very fun to play. Still feels like something that'd be far more viable in an organized game than in our pleb activities.
- Lunara - I feel like she's in a pretty good spot. Definitely not a drag on your team in QM or HL now. Arthelon was on THH saying that he feels she's the same as she was because all those changes didn't address her problems but I have to disagree. She feels much more fluid to play and her abilities and poison feel like they do some actual damage now. The wisp is still total shit, however.
- Nova - if you thought having Nova on your team was bad before, boy do I have news for you. It fucking sucks now. Useless as tits on a boar hog.
- Zeratul - after nerfing Nova, they decided to make the other stealth hero be able to insta-gib any squishy even easier than he did before. My observation after playing with quite a few Zeratul's this week is that although Shadow Assault is better, it's a trap heroic. It absolutely wrecks heroes like Li-Ming and Morales and Lunara, etc. It also almost always ends up in the Zeratul being killed. For me, my Zeratul killing their Li-Ming and then dying is a good trade...but that really seems to be about all the heroic is good for right now.
- Gazlowe - they still need to fix the scaling on his turrets. They die way too easily since the scaling changes.
- Rehgar - I feel like the rumors of his unquestionable reign were a little early, but he is very strong regardless of that fact. Consider that the typical Rehgar game prior to these changes saw you take healing talents, heal a bunch, and probably contribute between 5-15k damage to your team's total damage output. Now I rarely see a Rehgar (whether myself or someone else) put up less than 30k damage. I've seen as much as 47k damage so far. That's a huge ass increase in contribution. Couple that with the fact that he can now finish alot of those kills that may have escaped prior to this patch...
For regular pleb lyfe his Lightning Shield build is a bit of a mixed bag. If you get a meat shield or melee to utilize it with it's gravy. Otherwise I'm not sure if it's worth launching yourself into near death constantly just to utilize it more instead of going with a different build. Something something utilize it in moderation. Glad he's back though. Probably my most played hero all-time along with Valla, Zeeb, and Brightwing. And Feral Lunge base is just amazing.
- Malfurion - haven't seen much Malf play and I don't play him much myself. Probably my least played support. The changes seemed like they were an improvement on paper, however.
- Sonya - doesn't really seem much different. Good Sonya's still wreck. Bad Sonya's still suck. All is right in the world. What was that Soka?
- Li-Ming - she's OP. There's no doubt about it. Like they discussed on THH, she falls short of KT Ignite OP, but that's kind of like saying Sidney Crosby falls short of Wayne Gretzky. She's still better than everything else and better than current KT IMO just like Crosby is better than anyone else in the NHL currently.
The Arcane Orb pull is annoying as fuck. It's basically the setup for free kills and wombos and I'm not surprised they are looking to nerf it. Disintegrate having a twenty second cooldown plus all that range is pretty gross as well. Not sure if they'll nerf it or how, but it's between the Orb pull and Disintegrate for two of the top three or four things that make her so strong. I suppose they could look at putting some kind of limit or cooldown on her trait, but it would seem more sensible to tone down those talents/heroics or just scale back a little on damage and keep the unique factor of her kit if they decide they can't get her in line with a few tweaks.
She has so much damage that it looks like the teleport talents (plus the Orb pull at 4) really are the best way to go. I'm still not sold on Calamity (level 7 teleport damage talent) but IMO the level 7 talents is the weakest group in her whole tree so it's not like there's a far superior option there or anything so why not.
IMO they should buff Wave of Force a little and nerf Disintegrate's range a bit and make that an actual option. WoF is dead weight til level 20 while Disintegrate is constantly doing work - particularly if you get a reset.
Though she's OP I don't feel she's unhealthy for the game at this point in the same way old KT Ignite was. She's just really strong and frankly this game needs a few more really strong heroes.
- Muradin - he still feels pretty good to me. The loss of Avatar stuns is noticeable against certain heroes, but his survivability and ability to set up/secure kills is so good he can survive that kind of nerf.
- Greymane - others are a bigger advocate for him than I am. I think he's in a good spot for himself but I still don't believe the meta we see in pleb games is a very good one for him. You can poke all day with the Q build and do a good bit of damage, but I feel like you get more out of Lunara/mages/Raynor and so on if all you can do is stay at range (and that happens often in QM RNG).
If he's allowed to go in and clean up...he's OpieOP. There's just so many weird ass comps and stuns going around that it seems very hard to pull off in the way it was intended. I truly don't think Blizzard intended him to be a 85% range 15% melee hero, but that's what we've got right now.
RumblingRosco
Member
Needs a nerf.
brickwalker0
Member
i swear you have the most quality posts on this game in this thread.
i raised these exact questions and concerns to some real life friends. kudos for making me not feel like im crazy and alone in these thoughts.
JK. I think you're underselling he's OP as fuck though. He's now the 2nd highest WR in the game. UP 11.5% to 56.6%. Dats way OP.
in b4 WR is bad metrics
I don't remember when the Panda pandemic struck, but from what I'm seeing Li Li topped out at 54.8%. Sucks Hotslogs only goes back so far (11/8/15), but IIRC it was way earlier in '15 when her W would triple bounce heal, right? That's the only other support that I remember being completely OP in a broken sense. And no, Uther was never broken. He's just a pain in the ass to play effectively.
It's pretty telling that W is the issue here. I agree with what you said that you definitely need a melee to make use of it, otherwise it's worthless. Out of the top 10 builds on Hotslogs, 8/10 make use of all 4 W talents. And that's over 4600 games.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wasn't yolo sprint uther broken?
Oh yeah, that is true. I completely forgot about that as it wasn't around that long after I started playing.
He has now passed Diablo as the #1 hero.
There always seems to be one healer like that to varying degrees up until the last 4-5 months or whenever Uther's ghost nerf was.
There was the Lili and Tassadar insanity in early Alpha. The aforementioned Sprint + Divine Storm Uther during and after that. The end of last winter/early Spring there was original recipe OP Rehgar facilitating even more OP Illidan. Then Gust of Healing Brightwing was ridiculously OP leading to everyone having such a high winrate with her. Uther picked back up from there with his crazy ghost form and was clearly better than the rest. Lili W bug is somewhere between Brightwing's time and ghost Uther nerf. Then we kind of hit the lull we've been in til Rehgar picked up the mantle again.
Rehgar is gonna be insane in competitive if he's not banned out. RIP the enemy of whatever team puts a favorable comp around him.
Well, I wasn't around for Alpha!
I don't remember what really made Rehgar OP when we ran him with Illidan. Wasn't AH just on a shorter CD which synergized well with keeping OPidan alive?
My memory is actually pretty bad looking back. Brightwing's active D was up there as well. This iteration of Rehgar and triple heal W Li Li are what really stand out to me.
Listening to THH, one thing that always seems weird to me is the emphasis that teams (C9 is the biggest advocate) put on hiding their drafts. That's the reason put forth for the troll comps, and also a reason put forth for why sitting out the next few qualifiers having already qualified is a good thing because they don't have to show anything while they can watch everyone else.
Right now that makes total sense. New patch, new hero, other heroes moving up and down in priority, etc...but in general?
The draft pool is pretty small. Most games see the same heroes banned and the same heroes played. It's probably like 80-90% homogenized and then that 10-20% which is a new variable in a single game (but still generally a pick that is expected). So what exactly is there to hide? Everyone knows the heroes C9 likes to play, or that BRFC wants to play. Hell we know it at home so of course the pros know after scrimming and playing against each other for months and months. Naturally a team can pull out a hidden pocket strat like Murky + Leoric at the World Championships that wins them games but we rarely see stuff like that happen and actually work.
Just seems like a strange emphasis on it when things are still so homogenized and there's not much variance once the meta for that patch is nailed down. With more heroes I could definitely see that, but right now it seems like almost every hero we see has been seen regularly since last summer due to all the new hero release flops. Maybe it's just me though, /shrug.
Right now that makes total sense. New patch, new hero, other heroes moving up and down in priority, etc...but in general?
The draft pool is pretty small. Most games see the same heroes banned and the same heroes played. It's probably like 80-90% homogenized and then that 10-20% which is a new variable in a single game (but still generally a pick that is expected). So what exactly is there to hide? Everyone knows the heroes C9 likes to play, or that BRFC wants to play. Hell we know it at home so of course the pros know after scrimming and playing against each other for months and months. Naturally a team can pull out a hidden pocket strat like Murky + Leoric at the World Championships that wins them games but we rarely see stuff like that happen and actually work.
Just seems like a strange emphasis on it when things are still so homogenized and there's not much variance once the meta for that patch is nailed down. With more heroes I could definitely see that, but right now it seems like almost every hero we see has been seen regularly since last summer due to all the new hero release flops. Maybe it's just me though, /shrug.
One word: Murky.
Tempo Storm knew exactly what was happening in that draft as it happened.
Clearly and I mentioned that in my post. That's a pretty rare example though.
We rarely, rarely ever see a pocket strat pulled out that works. Has to be something like 98% of the "real" games are most of the general picks. That would only work against other regions who aren't paying attention, for example, but would not work against NA kind of like the Murky strat.
Just seems like a whole lot of emphasis on hiding perhaps one hero that is unlikely to ever come to fruition or come into play in the ideal circumstance to use it. And they don't regularly use it anyway, so they aren't really hiding anything by going troll against scrubs instead of picking standard.
If anything you could argue picking standard hides the strat better than trolling.
We rarely, rarely ever see a pocket strat pulled out that works. Has to be something like 98% of the "real" games are most of the general picks. That would only work against other regions who aren't paying attention, for example, but would not work against NA kind of like the Murky strat.
Just seems like a whole lot of emphasis on hiding perhaps one hero that is unlikely to ever come to fruition or come into play in the ideal circumstance to use it. And they don't regularly use it anyway, so they aren't really hiding anything by going troll against scrubs instead of picking standard.
If anything you could argue picking standard hides the strat better than trolling.
Pretty sure c9 just likes to bm
There's nothing wrong w/ hiding stuff or not attending unnecesary tourneys fundamentally, but im pretty sure i read somewhere that c9 feels confident that they can just generally outplay their opponents w/ booty picks and that they take advantage of this fact. No other team really slams themselves into the Hall Of Storms over and over or does mean-spirited stuff like c9 tho. Playing standard still reveals things, like it's prtty well known that k1pro consistently tries to flank w/ jaina, stuff like that.
There's nothing wrong w/ hiding stuff or not attending unnecesary tourneys fundamentally, but im pretty sure i read somewhere that c9 feels confident that they can just generally outplay their opponents w/ booty picks and that they take advantage of this fact. No other team really slams themselves into the Hall Of Storms over and over or does mean-spirited stuff like c9 tho. Playing standard still reveals things, like it's prtty well known that k1pro consistently tries to flank w/ jaina, stuff like that.
I have to say, listening to the recent THH, a couple of things stand out:
1) NA pro scene is still really, really conservative. It always seems slightly behind other regions in terms of meta - be it the two tank meta, Stitches, or now Greymane. They still develop the occasional cool strat (Azmodunk, Murky etc), but they just don't seem to have the same awareness of the games meta other regions have. Possibly because it's the smallest of all the major scenes, but it does make laugh to hear NA pros dismiss other regions and then ultimately end up copying the same stuff a week later.
2) Arthelon is a dick.
EDI:T re the drafting secrets things, I think it's less the heroes being picked, and more the optimal order and how you pick those heroes. If they pick Thrall early, what do you pick in response, what needs to be locked out etc. The order of how you go into those heroes really determines which ones you get and what you need to do to counter them, and I guess that's what they are trying to hide.
That and the occasional weird combo (C9s murky strat, Navi's tankless Butcher / Falstad strat etc.)
1) NA pro scene is still really, really conservative. It always seems slightly behind other regions in terms of meta - be it the two tank meta, Stitches, or now Greymane. They still develop the occasional cool strat (Azmodunk, Murky etc), but they just don't seem to have the same awareness of the games meta other regions have. Possibly because it's the smallest of all the major scenes, but it does make laugh to hear NA pros dismiss other regions and then ultimately end up copying the same stuff a week later.
2) Arthelon is a dick.
EDI:T re the drafting secrets things, I think it's less the heroes being picked, and more the optimal order and how you pick those heroes. If they pick Thrall early, what do you pick in response, what needs to be locked out etc. The order of how you go into those heroes really determines which ones you get and what you need to do to counter them, and I guess that's what they are trying to hide.
That and the occasional weird combo (C9s murky strat, Navi's tankless Butcher / Falstad strat etc.)
It's in the iTunes Store under podcasts brian. Just search for Town Hall Heroes.
That was my takeaway from the podcast as well but wanted to wait til someone else said it. Did nothing to improve the impression of him being all about the BM and generally disgruntled.
You are right I'm sure. I probably take more issue with it simply because C9 (and Dunk in particular) seem to think they are masterminds with lots of secret plans and knowledge and try to give that off at every turn...and then they pick the same fucking heroes they always have, and sans the World Championships they still tend to fall apart late which doesn't do much to help the mastermind gimmick. I love them but Dunk and his mindgames man lol.
That was my takeaway from the podcast as well but wanted to wait til someone else said it. Did nothing to improve the impression of him being all about the BM and generally disgruntled.
You are right I'm sure. I probably take more issue with it simply because C9 (and Dunk in particular) seem to think they are masterminds with lots of secret plans and knowledge and try to give that off at every turn...and then they pick the same fucking heroes they always have, and sans the World Championships they still tend to fall apart late which doesn't do much to help the mastermind gimmick. I love them but Dunk and his mindgames man lol.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Hah still have a 80% winrate over 32 games with BW but have only played her like 2 times since her changes
Get yourself a portrait for watching the Spring NA Regionals: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/20030155/north-american-spring-regionals-in-los-angeles-2-5-2016
EDIT: Srey doesn't use quick cast? And he's streaming.
EDIT: Srey doesn't use quick cast? And he's streaming.
We want this?
curlyfriski
Banned
Did COG play today?
Agreed. Give it up. She can't be good because of new players so just let her be and fix some of the other bads.
Short version- Nova needs to be a super long range poke hero. Make her Q leave her invisible, but have a that disappears making it obvious where it came from. Let her talent into a move speed on hit or something. Then give her talents that let her finish if she gets closer to the oppoonent. Basically , she needs to be ranged Greymane.
Currently, the fantasy isn't there. She has to be too close, and her kit isn't designed in a way that lets her do damage from far enough away to be safe.
Currently, the fantasy isn't there. She has to be too close, and her kit isn't designed in a way that lets her do damage from far enough away to be safe.
Venus Van Dam
Neo Member
There was this match when a Leoric standed still at the core and ping spammed one of our forts just like you described for the first 15 minutes. We reported him and kept playing and hoping for a miracle. Then after the 15th minute Leoric decided to play and we won. Not a pleasant victory though.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I kinda hate that they buffed Bloodlust, now Rehgars at average MMR all take it and it's mostly useless still.
Li Ming already at lvl 8 lol, got my portrait.
Li Ming already at lvl 8 lol, got my portrait.
If only. Still saw her a good deal too, though it is definitely less than it was pre-nerf. Never understood why she was so popular to begin with in the many times she's been replacement level...hopefully they'll at least gravitate towards Li-Ming or something.
I like this. I've kind of felt the same way re: the fantasy. I never understood why Triple Tap could be blocked, for example...she's a sniper, it just doesn't quite make sense. In the way it's designed it makes perfect sense, but it kind of kills the most "sniper-y" part of the hero.
I always felt like her range and utility should be higher but that the burst was just Blizzard trying to fill that sniper/boom headshot niche that every game seems to have.
Saw that a few times too. They always lose. Honestly not sure what it would take to make Bloodlust relevant for regular players like us.
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