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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
WonderRade
Member
not sure if i think the stun needs to be removed. He has been getting alot of priority in NA but im not sure if thats been the case in other regions. Im sure he is used but has been as prioritized as NA?
IF they were to change it what if they gave him like a 10 free evasion or something like that?
As for META, no idea what to do there, all the things that come to my mind are thematic options like an AOE burn or something but I imagine that doesnt really work balance wise. Maybe a temp CD reduction?
IF they were to change it what if they gave him like a 10 free evasion or something like that?
As for META, no idea what to do there, all the things that come to my mind are thematic options like an AOE burn or something but I imagine that doesnt really work balance wise. Maybe a temp CD reduction?
Orochinagis
Member
Back to bronze II, people grouping in one lane everyday
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Speaking of mana. A large overhaul of mana is long overdue a la scaling changes maybe. Ever since idk Greymane or even before new heroes almost never run out of mana spamming abilities while older heroes like tyrael have to show extreme restraint in using their abilities.
Compare Li Ming and Jaina, heck don't even have to go that far compare Li Ming to KT.
KT can do alright on mana if he's using the globe quest on lvl1, which is honestly what he should be doing anyway because late game you are going to be spamming so many spells with Living Bomb procing all over.
But yeah Li Ming has it easy when it comes to mana. Though in the case of Jaina you can spec into some mana talents if you really need it badly but you don't really need it, you can just W to wave clear and her spells have long cooldowns anyway.
I think Genji is the prime example of hero who doesn't seem to run out of mana. They nerfed his Shurikens though so you can't spam them as much.
Nah man, Convection in most scenarios. It's just too good once it's stacked and it doesn't take a lot of work on quite a few maps. It and the build that comes off of it make KT an absolute monster and are what's pushed him up above 51% winrate. Empowered Flamestrikes with Fury of the Sunwell and everything else....yowza.
There are some comps you absolutely can't take it against, but then you probably shouldn't be playing KT there anyway I'd argue. And if stacking it is an issue, the same applies.
Mana usages are really inconsistent, but they also always have been this way since the game started. It was pretty jarring coming from games that demanded mana management to this game where they just want you to spam skills non-stop. I believe that's part of the identity of this game, in other games you can starve your opponent out by using up their mana and theyd have to b and use up tp cd to get back into position in order not to miss gold and exp, but in this game you either just clear, b, and zip back into lane without missing your wave, get someone to cover for you, or tap the well. This game def doesnt prioritize an indepth mana game and would rather the player not worry about it
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm fine with if that's their intent but then apply it across the board and don't have some heroes starve for it while it's completely pointless on others.
we're nearing a dozen heroes that don't use mana at all
Sonya, Zarya, Illidan, Samuro, Tracer, Valeera, Chen, Auriel, DVa
we're nearing a dozen heroes that don't use mana at all
Sonya, Zarya, Illidan, Samuro, Tracer, Valeera, Chen, Auriel, DVa
Karsticles
Member
My only issue with mana in this game is that a LOT of characters who shouldn't have mana, have it. If you're going to create one character like Sonya, you need to be consistent across the cast. Since when does a Siege Tank use mana? Etc.
It's a really difficult area they've moved into, to be sure.
They should definitely balance heroes such that mana reduction skills are unnecessary, though.
It's a really difficult area they've moved into, to be sure.
They should definitely balance heroes such that mana reduction skills are unnecessary, though.
So she has 3 bars, and is double-handicapped in her gameplay?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm not sure if I want all heroes to be able to spam abilities I just want it to be more consistent across the board.
Would stop the healing spam at least but they probably have a strict 2 bars only policy.
scoobs
Member
I haven't seen a more turrible suggestion since someone on here suggested Greymane's Q in Worgen form shouldn't have movement on it. Glad yall aren't hero designers. Just awful, awful stuff you've got goin on in here tonight boys.
Why are we so hell bent on nerfing heroes in the bottom 20 of win rates today? Auriel is good in very specific comps, and mediocre to bad everywhere else. That is OK. That is what bans are for.
I used to do Convection every time and I did alright but once I started using Mana Addict I became a lot more consistent with KT. In some maps I still do Convection like Braxxis, Shrines or Sky Temple because I know enemies will clump at objectives but on other maps I take the Mana Addict option. Especially against compositions that counter pick me, I just I know I won't have the stacks up on time.
Having to not worry about mana for the most part in the late game is pretty big and the armor in clutch situation can save you in the late game. At 20 globes acquired that's 5 more Flamestrikes you can throw out in a team fight before running out of mana.
Second option is to use Mana tap talent on LVL4 for the mana sustain but then I would be giving up the faster/longer reaching stun on Netherwind.
scoobs
Member
I'm pretty much the last person to ask about any Mage hero (consult Milly for sure), but I think Mana Addict should be the go-to for most players.
For experienced/awesome KTs, yes Convection for sure in most scenarios, but to me the power of Convection lies with completing it relatively early in the game where that extra damage is surprising and devastating. 200 damage late game (where most KTs will actually complete it) is good, but not game changing. A massive shield and crazy mana reserves will have a much bigger impact at level 16-20+.
I think you also should avoid Convection against specific dive heroes and stealthies, because death in the early game is almost a certainty against heroes like Zeratul, Valeera, Nova, Genji, and Tracer.
I also really hate playing super passively, which Convection pretty much forces you to do as you protect your stacks, so its just not something I'd pick often (particularly if you're just playing QM where you will be facing 4-5 assassins)
For experienced/awesome KTs, yes Convection for sure in most scenarios, but to me the power of Convection lies with completing it relatively early in the game where that extra damage is surprising and devastating. 200 damage late game (where most KTs will actually complete it) is good, but not game changing. A massive shield and crazy mana reserves will have a much bigger impact at level 16-20+.
I think you also should avoid Convection against specific dive heroes and stealthies, because death in the early game is almost a certainty against heroes like Zeratul, Valeera, Nova, Genji, and Tracer.
I also really hate playing super passively, which Convection pretty much forces you to do as you protect your stacks, so its just not something I'd pick often (particularly if you're just playing QM where you will be facing 4-5 assassins)
How come?
Oh.
Convection doesn't make you play any more safely than you should already be playing. That's not just with KT, but most mages are like that. 200 damage doesn't seem like a lot late game, but it's synergies with the rest of the talents that you would commonly pick pretty much make it the primo talent (and pick rates in both QM and HL back that up) unless you're facing hardcore dive. If you are facing dive, dunno why you picked KT unless it was just random QM. So long as you are putting KT in the stacked lane plus the usual 5 man circle jerk mid to start the game you should be able to stack this thing pretty decently.
Alpha Centauri
Member
Only problem with going convection is that a flamethrower flamestrike with burned flesh and double Q is gonna do a helluva lot of damage, convection or not.
With mana addict it gives you the sustain to keep nuking. An extra 200 damage is big. But its not 3 less flamestrikes in a 60 second keep siege big. They both are viable, but I vastly prefer mana addict and I think its better on most maps. Being able to have 30 globes by the end of the match not only protects you when the enemy all-ins on you, but you never have to worry about mana when it matters
With mana addict it gives you the sustain to keep nuking. An extra 200 damage is big. But its not 3 less flamestrikes in a 60 second keep siege big. They both are viable, but I vastly prefer mana addict and I think its better on most maps. Being able to have 30 globes by the end of the match not only protects you when the enemy all-ins on you, but you never have to worry about mana when it matters
Cause they want him using Gorehowl. But in HS he's very much a tank and his dad is very much 100% a bruiser or assassin and so radically differentiating them is good.
Alpha Centauri
Member
I dunno why I play late at night. What a fucking throw. All because one guy decides to get cocky. Little did he know that he was going to feed to show-off and bstep and lose us the match even though we had 20 v 18.
We had 20 more kills... Feels Bad
We had 20 more kills... Feels Bad
I haven't seen a more turrible suggestion since someone on here suggested Greymane's Q in Worgen form shouldn't have movement on it. Glad yall aren't hero designers. Just awful, awful stuff you've got goin on in here tonight boys.
Why are we so hell bent on nerfing heroes in the bottom 20 of win rates today? Auriel is good in very specific comps, and mediocre to bad everywhere else. That is OK. That is what bans are for.
I mean her whole design issue is that she pumps out more heals than any other character on a 2 second cooldown amd can do this forever. But it's def more of a suggestion to fix her at higher levels since as u noted a lot of ppl are trash playing her. Lower levels wouldnt even run out of mana because they dont know how to survi e long enough to use it up anyway
Auriel/cho is also one of the more unfun things to play avainst so itd help the rest of the population a bit too0
But in competitive and stuff she's broken, it'd be easier to just remove her lvl 7 and see what happens but we were talking about mana
Also, another controversial thought: they overnerfed genji i think
She isn't broken in competitive at all? What matches are you watching?
Edit: re Genji, they're doing the same Blizzard thing we've seen several times before where they are needing the wrong part of his kit. Like Stitches a couple of years ago, or Lucio, they are hitting the wrong spots and fiddling with numbers where they should be looking at the overall kit.
I still don't actually understand Lucio's role in this game now he's been officially designated a second support only. He doesn't bring Tyrande kill power or Tassadars insane shields, his own dps is ridiculously low and his play along potential incredibly small. I don't understand why they aren't aiming for him to be a solo support. It's not like we're overflowing with them...
Edit: re Genji, they're doing the same Blizzard thing we've seen several times before where they are needing the wrong part of his kit. Like Stitches a couple of years ago, or Lucio, they are hitting the wrong spots and fiddling with numbers where they should be looking at the overall kit.
I still don't actually understand Lucio's role in this game now he's been officially designated a second support only. He doesn't bring Tyrande kill power or Tassadars insane shields, his own dps is ridiculously low and his play along potential incredibly small. I don't understand why they aren't aiming for him to be a solo support. It's not like we're overflowing with them...
she holds an 81% pick/ban this patch with a 57% winrate, and the wins dont really come from her doing a great stun or something, it's just because she outhealed in a fight and they won the fight
per country for this patch
in eu: 80% p/b, 41% wr
in korea: 80% p/b, 100% wr (only let through in 2 games so far)
in na: 78% p/b, 66% w/r
it's also general consensus afaik that her lvl 7 talent is one of the more poorly designed talents in the game
i feel like lucio is due for a resurgence, the best thing about him is his speed boosts
per country for this patch
in eu: 80% p/b, 41% wr
in korea: 80% p/b, 100% wr (only let through in 2 games so far)
in na: 78% p/b, 66% w/r
it's also general consensus afaik that her lvl 7 talent is one of the more poorly designed talents in the game
i feel like lucio is due for a resurgence, the best thing about him is his speed boosts
I listen to THH every week, watch a huge amount of games, and go on discord with several pros. I've honestly never heard these complaints about her - especially not with Uther in the environment, and her needing a very specific comp to work (feeder dps class plus no cleanse needed on her). THH had a really in depth discussion on supports between Bakery and Dread only a couple of weeks ago and this wasn't mentioned at all.
I mean, its not even the talent that everyone was picking first time around anyway - the old version of the 'take damage to get energy talent' had a higher win rate.
Just feels like she's strong in the right comps, which currently are fairly meta so she's available a lot, but she's still second choice after uther. I'd rather we look at making other supports better not making her worse...
I mean, its not even the talent that everyone was picking first time around anyway - the old version of the 'take damage to get energy talent' had a higher win rate.
Just feels like she's strong in the right comps, which currently are fairly meta so she's available a lot, but she's still second choice after uther. I'd rather we look at making other supports better not making her worse...
eh it was just a suggestion cuz we were talking about mana
bakery has an interesting suggestion of making the w 3 sec baseline and nerfing 7, that def is more graceful than implementing mana: https://twitter.com/BakeryHeroes/status/883847232704962560, i dont know if bakery even plays her
but yeah I've seen pro talk deriding auriel for months
bakery has an interesting suggestion of making the w 3 sec baseline and nerfing 7, that def is more graceful than implementing mana: https://twitter.com/BakeryHeroes/status/883847232704962560, i dont know if bakery even plays her
but yeah I've seen pro talk deriding auriel for months
Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me as a change.
essentially the 7 is an untenable talent that prob wont ever get addressed by the community at large because she's played in particular comps. stuff like winrate or other supports being straight up better aren't really at play here in the discussion, other than to give blizz excuses for not addressing it or setting it as a low priority concern
she does 700+ aoe healing at level 10 every 2 seconds
she does 700+ aoe healing at level 10 every 2 seconds
Today we learned Mal is hanging with the pros.
From the reddit thread about the article saying Glaurung has HOTS at his feet:
I think people really forget how good some of the teams Glaurung was on actually were. There's a who's who of people he's played with, sometimes multiple times, and he was a big roadblock to their success on more than one occasion.
From the reddit thread about the article saying Glaurung has HOTS at his feet:
I think people really forget how good some of the teams Glaurung was on actually were. There's a who's who of people he's played with, sometimes multiple times, and he was a big roadblock to their success on more than one occasion.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
probably his own fault but he was constantly picked up for the wrong role for all of 2016. Ideal case for him might have been getting on vortex and then being trasnferred to maelstrom instead of having him wallow in charge of middle of the pack teams
Oh for sure. He's no doubt the face of the NA scene at this point. And he should be doubly commended for learning from his mistakes and breaking the cycle.
But you can't just gloss over the issues from before and act like it's because his teams were bad. They weren't significantly any better or worse than the one he has now personnel wise. Just the fit is better now, he's matured, and he's improved as a player on top of those things.
But you can't just gloss over the issues from before and act like it's because his teams were bad. They weren't significantly any better or worse than the one he has now personnel wise. Just the fit is better now, he's matured, and he's improved as a player on top of those things.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I've finished conviction once in like 8 QM games when I got KT to 10
I think it's just better actually. Maybe not in boe.
But in general you get so much mana from the quest that you barely have to back and lets KT clear waves, solo mercs, and still show up to team fights with most of his mana. It more then makes up for the lack of damage I think and is 0% risk. Even before the quest is finished the extra mana gives you so much more in wave clear/map control that it's still worth giving up the minimum damage increase before convection is finished.
But in general you get so much mana from the quest that you barely have to back and lets KT clear waves, solo mercs, and still show up to team fights with most of his mana. It more then makes up for the lack of damage I think and is 0% risk. Even before the quest is finished the extra mana gives you so much more in wave clear/map control that it's still worth giving up the minimum damage increase before convection is finished.
The stats for winrate and tremendously so for pick rate say otherwise. I'm not saying Mana Addict is a bad talent, I'm just saying the reasons for not picking Convection that are usually given are symptoms of an issue with the heroes play style as a whole more than anything.
If you want to farm globes all game to get a shield that's your perogative, but you shouldn't die any more or less based on the talent you chose until said shield comes online late game.
And re: mana, again, most heroes aren't having issues post 13 as was just discussed with someone suggesting they rebalance mana on all heroes to make it more meaningful.
I know, man. He can be our inside man moving forward.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
RIP Turdburger's interest in hots
Clarification I suggested to pick a side and either make it meaningful or consistently meaningless for all heroes.
Clarification I suggested to pick a side and either make it meaningful or consistently meaningless for all heroes.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yeah mostly tyrael but generally older heroes are more susceptible than those form the last couple years.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
when will garrosh go live for once I'm thirsty enough to try PTR
I think that's a fine argument and you can't really go wrong defaulting to mana addict. Convection is def more value if you can get it since it only needs 10 stacks and you'll usually get it stacked early if you can get it stacked, and the 200 dmg it provides is insane at this point. But it's up to the player/draft/map to decide which one to take and in my experience ppl are pretty cognizant of what to do against a convection pick.
I dunno if this is necesary, like personally im alright with whatever blizz decides as long as each hero is thought out case by case and the gameplay makes sense.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
convection is 20 stacks and you lose them on death.