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[Maledict]

A fully talented Q is such high sustained AE damage that you're fine with it hitting the front line. It creates huge barriers to movement, and even tanks can't stand in it long - especially if you have the shade out, at which point you basically force the enemy team to either split or retreat due to the AE control.

I think the one shot CC build is what we'll see at the high end, but I wouldn't underestimate Q build at all - it's a very high damage, high AE zoning spec.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

But even still, you're hitting the same problem. The Q can't go beyond the front line, whoever that happens to be. That's what makes it unreliable damage.

True, but you can chain the front line to the back line first

I think that is typically KTs only way to hit back line characters without overexposing himself.

Chaining front line to back line (with the slow buff) and then frost nova + ult/Q is so devastating.

 

[Alur]

True, but you can chain the front line to the back line first

I think that is typically KTs only way to hit back line characters without overexposing himself.

Chaining front line to back line (with the slow buff) and then frost nova + ult/Q is so devastating.

Yeah but if you're hitting the combo, you probably don't need those Q talents because they are simply a crutch. The Q build is for making up for being unable to reliably combo. Even if you chain em to the back it's still hitting whoever is in front.

A fully talented Q is such high sustained AE damage that you're fine with it hitting the front line. It creates huge barriers to movement, and even tanks can't stand in it long - especially if you have the shade out, at which point you basically force the enemy team to either split or retreat due to the AE control.

I think the one shot CC build is what we'll see at the high end, but I wouldn't underestimate Q build at all - it's a very high damage, high AE zoning spec.

I can't see it. I mean, I can certainly see it being the common build, but still feel if you're going that route you're doing it wrong and not maximizing the hero. People stand in the Q like crazy or just walk through it in my games so far. They either haven't learned or don't bother. It's everything else he does they are trying to avoid.

 

[Maledict]

I think the one shot build with glacial spike is one of, if not the hardest mage hero to play in the game (and I main mages). It's an insane build, but I would honestly argue for most players in the game they are probably better off going Q build as they will see better results from it. The damage from it at 16 with the cooldown reduction and stacking damage is large and you're basically chain casting it at that point. Once you hit 20 it's like walking through a probius field.

Also the one shot build struggles on the backline as well. You still have to be fairly close to land your Q and W on the chained targets, and flanking with him doesn't seem realistic given his stats and tools.

 

[brian!]

it's totally fine for him to combo a tank if you have followup, just think of it as a stronger cursed bullet that costs all of your resources lol
but on a shorter cd than bullet

 

[Dahbomb]

Q build is good on boss maps.

And the damage is certainly no joke, it acts as a solid zoning ability.


Also realistically you aren't going to be spam Q fast enough to make use of the CDR at 16. You have to be using your other skills too and if you use Q too much that's a lot of time that you leave yourself open due to its cast time. Not to mention mana issues if you spam Q that much and miss a few (which you are statistically likely to do) in addition to spamming your other skills.

Whereas with the W talent at 16 you get a lot more value out of your Qs damage wise along with your other damage stuff AND your lvl20 Q talent. Pretty much anyone that gets hit by your W at that point is likely to die from that talent.


I have played Q build like 5 times already and it has done work with that talent choice. Combo talent build is still the best though, killing enemies fast always trumps killing them over time.

 

[brian!]

it's a shitload of damage

 

[Dahbomb]

Also unlike Psy Storm, the Qs from your familiar stack damage with yours.

 

[brian!]

plus the talents work too lol
def a strong build but I dunno if I'd be sitting in draft ever being like "yeah q kelthuzad, that's the right pick here", could be the shit on braxis or something

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think the one shot build with glacial spike is one of, if not the hardest mage hero to play in the game (and I main mages). It's an insane build, but I would honestly argue for most players in the game they are probably better off going Q build as they will see better results from it. The damage from it at 16 with the cooldown reduction and stacking damage is large and you're basically chain casting it at that point. Once you hit 20 it's like walking through a probius field.

Also the one shot build struggles on the backline as well. You still have to be fairly close to land your Q and W on the chained targets, and flanking with him doesn't seem realistic given his stats and tools.

Yeah, this was kinda my point. You can't really hit back line very well to begin with. Chains is like your only chance. It is powerful though since with the slow talent you've basically killed that hero you hit in the backline.

plus the talents work too lol
def a strong build but I dunno if I'd be sitting in draft ever being like "yeah q kelthuzad, that's the right pick here", could be the shit on braxis or something

Maybe battlefield of eternity, although the stacking Q damage over time only hits heroes iirc.

 

[Alur]

def a strong build but I dunno if I'd be sitting in draft ever being like "yeah q kelthuzad, that's the right pick here", could be the shit on braxis or something

That's pretty much my point. At this point you're better off with another mage. If you can get in to land Q's, you can get in to combo. If you can't then you're kind of in the same boat either way as your main benefit is erased by (probably) having no front line/engage.

I wish the Q was more reliable so he'd be easier for me to play. The way it clips on shit -- especially facing heroes like Zag or Xul -- is frustrating as hell at times.

 

[Dahbomb]

What about W build though? Haven't tried it myself.

I think the W talent at 13 is weak but the rest of them are good enough (at 1 and 16). Works like an alternative combo build.

 

[brian!]

i posted a sec ago about how i will probably be going for the lvl 1 w talent now just for waveclear, i do miss the increased dmg on e though
it's been working out in qm at least, i can clean up waves better when my team is like nah dog soak is for losers

trying to figure out if e slow at 13 is a real pick...I've been picking it but I also have been comboing regardless so maybe the slow is a waste and I should go for the cdr? though I do use glacial spike a lot and that doesn't proc it. i dunno
cdr actually sounds really tight, it's a huge reward

 

[King Gilga]

They really need to allow you to see Valeera's combo points in the middle of the screen.

I don't know if I've been doing 2 or 3 of fuck knows maybe even one point combo point Eviserats after the first opener one, I just hope I have 3 and press E. Having it in the bottom left of the screen is just dumb. It's been like a year how is still the case.

 

[Alur]

i posted a sec ago about how i will probably be going for the lvl 1 w talent now just for waveclear, i do miss the increased dmg on e though
it's been working out in qm at least, i can clean up waves better when my team is like nah dog soak is for losers

trying to figure out if e slow at 13 is a real pick...I've been picking it but I also have been comboing regardless so maybe the slow is a waste and I should go for the cdr? though I do use glacial spike a lot and that doesn't proc it. i dunno
cdr actually sounds really tight, it's a huge reward

IIRC that Heroes Hearth article felt the CDR was the go-to and the slow was a trap talent as it is redundant. I haven't tried the W talent at 1 to even know what it does.

EDIT: A patch just downloaded. Just bug fixes apparently.

 

[Prelude.]

They fixed the medivac bug, it's pretty embarrassing it even went live after being a widely reported bug on PTR to begin with.

They really need to allow you to see Valeera's combo points in the middle of the screen.

I don't know if I've been doing 2 or 3 of fuck knows maybe even one point combo point Eviserats after the first opener one, I just hope I have 3 and press E. Having it in the bottom left of the screen is just dumb. It's been like a year how is still the case.

I haven't played her in a while, but I think the points appear in those little popups when you fight.

 

[brian!]

IIRC that Heroes Hearth article felt the CDR was the go-to and the slow was a trap talent as it is redundant. I haven't tried the W talent at 1 to even know what it does.

EDIT: A patch just downloaded. Just bug fixes apparently.

Yeah makes sense. The lvl 1 w is just .5 root time and 50% dmg in the center

 

[King Gilga]

I haven't played her in a while, but I think the points appear in those little popups when you fight.

Yeah as tiny numbers, dunno why they can't just put the orbs on her nameplay like tracers ammo.

 

[brian!]

played against soldier's kelthuzad and i guess you can put a glacial spike behind a wall and shoot a chain out to stun someone against a wall.

 

[kirblar]

played against soldier's kelthuzad and i guess you can put a glacial spike behind a wall and shoot a chain out to stun someone against a wall.

Yeah, there's no way that starting a chain off a building stays in the game long-term lol

 

[Maledict]

Team Liquid just lost 3-1 versus Tricked Esports - they really have been on a downward spiral for some time now it seems. Potentially crucible contenders now which would have been u thinkable 3 months ago.

 

[Alur]

Didn't know So1dier was still around. Feel like he could be a better fit on some of these pro teams than a few of the folks who have jobs. Ditto Kaeyoh too, but he works for Blizzard now IIRC.

Team Liquid just lost 3-1 versus Tricked Esports - they really have been on a downward spiral for some time now it seems. Potentially crucible contenders now which would have been u thinkable 3 months ago.

The mirrored drop of Liquid and TS is kind of uncanny. Are Liquid dropping for the same reason as Tempo has been, or do they have a different problem? I'll admit I haven't seen them a whole lot as I mainly watch Dig/Fnatic and catch Expert and TGG sometimes.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

they're playing like shit.

 

[Milly79]

I haven't even seen Kay stream much lately

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Kaeyoh's been streaming more regularly as of late.

 

[Milly79]

I haven't been watching much twitch lately😂

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So why did Rehgar start getting picked again?

 

[Alur]

He's the best jack of all trades healer left now that they whittled Uther and Auriel down. Plus, like proto said he can wave clear when your team won't do it, merc clear when your team won't do it, and so forth.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

He's the best jack of all trades healer left now that they whittled Uther and Auriel down. Plus, like proto said he can wave clear when your team won't do it, merc clear when your team won't do it, and so forth.

I see

BAN HIM FOREVER

or remake him?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

make more jack of all trade healers.

Like give Uther a lvl 7 talent be it a shitty one that does something not related to CC.

Add movement speed to all lvl 1s of Kharazim.

 

[Rhaknar]

any you guys in Florida stay safe out there

 

[kirblar]

I see

BAN HIM FOREVER

or remake him?

Nah, just minor buffs to other healers imo.

GFE Mosh Pit'd a medivac lololol

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Nah, just minor buffs to other healers imo.

GFE Mosh Pit'd a medivac lololol

Someone gotta be the first to try also if they murdered it under an active Mosh that'd be god play.

 

[Alur]

GFE crapping the bed to a team that got bodied last week.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

which was atypical. They've been on the downswing for no apparent reason.

 

[Alur]

The hell is this GFE draft.

 

[protonium]

.

 

[Alur]

Surprised he isn't Alarak. I thought he was melee?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Valla is weird like that. She was 1 of the first ranged Glaurung picked up.

 

[protonium]

.

 

[Alur]

Equinox getting vengeance again on GFE. 3-0 lyfe seems imminent.

EDIT: How the hell has SSG not won this already? There we go. Shameful shit.

 

[kirblar]

Equinox getting vengeance again on GFE. 3-0 lyfe seems imminent.

EDIT: How the hell has SSG not won this already?

They lost a corefight, and I get why they did it.

Trees was a god on Alarak all game long.

 

[Alur]

Guess that's why it was him and not Equinox.

 

[Rhaknar]

Pallytime's A to Z series is back for another year, starting with Abathur.

 

[scoobs]

Pallytime's A to Z series is back for another year, starting with Abathur.

Yay, this is the only thing he does that I find particularly worth watching

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think I aged a year after one match with this uther who simply did not want to play coherently. 4 of us are defending immortal and he is solo whacking away at their immortal. ><

 

[Alur]

Someone has to burn their immortal down amirite?

 

[scoobs]

Alright played 5 or 6 games against KT, i feel pretty comfortable saying he does way too much damage.

 

[Alur]

I want to pay for the booster than unlocks queues without Abathur in QM. On both teams, even, to make it fair. Also, throw Cho'Gall in there. I'd pay $5 for that.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

i got 1 shot by a lvl 16 ktz, at level 20. I was garrosh.

Fuck that hero dude. The combo, while relatively hard to land, isn't THAT hard. It does way too much damage.