Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I kinda wanna buy KTZ with 15k gold is it worth it?
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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
thanks for inadvertently answering my question
So after the Murky not helping game, the team keeps splitting on Mines vs Nova and Tracer game, I had this on Warhead.
3 on boss (Jaina, Uther, LiLi), the enemy team is respawning, Nazeebo and Aba don't help, the enemy team steals the boss (5v3), Nazeebo nonchalantly keeps pushing the opposite lane until he dies, meanwhile the enemy team + boss destroyed one fort and half a keep.
Later in the game they're doing boss, we invade, steal the boss, the nukes are about to spawn, everyone seems to push with the boss and end (the enemy team was wiped), while we're attacking the keep I realize everyone left to go heal/pick up nukes/Nazeebo getting stacks (???) at 20 minutes and I'm left alone with the boss vs a team about to respawn. Kel'Thuzad and Gul'dan start attacking me, I land a ring of frost on both since they were standing next to each other, E, W, both dead, the core is about half health because of the boss and my team is still all over the map, I keep dodging assassin Tyrande as much as I can while dropping stuff on the core, iceblocking to buy time and get some cd back until the core dies with the boss and me almost dead.
Holy. Shit. Why does it have to be so hard? Altairre, Rhaknar, pls.
Nazeebo also got MVP.
3 on boss (Jaina, Uther, LiLi), the enemy team is respawning, Nazeebo and Aba don't help, the enemy team steals the boss (5v3), Nazeebo nonchalantly keeps pushing the opposite lane until he dies, meanwhile the enemy team + boss destroyed one fort and half a keep.
Later in the game they're doing boss, we invade, steal the boss, the nukes are about to spawn, everyone seems to push with the boss and end (the enemy team was wiped), while we're attacking the keep I realize everyone left to go heal/pick up nukes/Nazeebo getting stacks (???) at 20 minutes and I'm left alone with the boss vs a team about to respawn. Kel'Thuzad and Gul'dan start attacking me, I land a ring of frost on both since they were standing next to each other, E, W, both dead, the core is about half health because of the boss and my team is still all over the map, I keep dodging assassin Tyrande as much as I can while dropping stuff on the core, iceblocking to buy time and get some cd back until the core dies with the boss and me almost dead.
Holy. Shit. Why does it have to be so hard? Altairre, Rhaknar, pls.
Nazeebo also got MVP.
He's worth the gold but the QM queues are so fucked it's real spotty for your enjoyment. If you are really good with him off the bat it won't matter. If you're like me and somewhere in the middle the enjoyment is entirely dependent on how much you enjoy the added difficulty and learning curve while potentially losing 60% of the time. I like winning more than I like KT so I figured I'd swap til there aren't also a ton of Jaina's and so forth in every game too...which is why playing a hero like Sonya or Zera is so good now.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Says the guy who afk'd. Biased much!? jk
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Leoric still good though they murdered the most popular competitive build at the same time, which also was a ton of fun. The nerf to entomb is hefty but let's be real, it was way too short before.
I lost so much last couple weeks that I need every win I can get. Too bad I already have Sonya and Jaina at 10+
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
what leorky talents where even taken?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wow jaina's blink range actually is super low but prob still good enough as her slows make that distance proportionally higher for anyone chasing her.
I'm just finding myself going Q build all the time though.
I'm just finding myself going Q build all the time though.
Karsticles
Member
0 deaths though!
I actually came back at the 20 min mark, but HotS is sooooo bad at reconnecting. It sat for 5 min and couldn't get back in.
Yeah you can still blink root and win the game for your team, it's just a lot more readable though compared to old blink root
Kt is really fun but i dont think there's any hero where you cant wait 2 weeks for the price to drop plus yeah you need to lose a bunch before you start winning with him
Kt is really fun but i dont think there's any hero where you cant wait 2 weeks for the price to drop plus yeah you need to lose a bunch before you start winning with him
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
the most hilarious part about jaina remains panic trading for me.
Butcher charged me, just hit all the buttons, butcher dead.
that and machine gun q build.
Butcher charged me, just hit all the buttons, butcher dead.
that and machine gun q build.
I can relate to that <_<.
Should have been reworked to Haunted Garden without the double layer shit.
Alpha Centauri
Member
Matchmaker just put Me(D2) with one D3 and 3 D5s against a team of all D1s.
Early season ahoy. The match went as I expected
Early season ahoy. The match went as I expected
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm starting to get malthael, he's kinda busted in qm in so far that you're almost guaranteed to at least trade in a 1v2 or more w/o a healer on each side.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I was actually laughing when a dva tried to 1v1 me.
He's easy to shut down though in QM as well, there's a reason he's being drafted with uther and such in HL.
I was building him completely wrong beforehand and took fights with torment down and such.
He's easy to shut down though in QM as well, there's a reason he's being drafted with uther and such in HL.
I was building him completely wrong beforehand and took fights with torment down and such.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
isn't the lvl 4 counter to what you want to do playing malth? You're pretty great at 1v1ing anyways and the trait talent is actually fairly low effort to complete by lvl 13 to 16.
The other Q talents are great otoh.
It's a playstyle thing, you do have to switch up how he's normally played (trait lots of ppl get value -> play more illidan style).
It runs counter to stuff like 13 armor talent, but only to the extent that ppl think malthael that max uptime on the talent is key when in reality popping it at the Correct time is key (spells down, quick multi-q).
Like back when meta was good it was still discouraged to do it into 5 as an engage, you get max health out of it but it's still the wrong thing to do; good players used it as another healthbar and to dodge a critical skillshot.
The lvl 4 q on malth is pretty strong but it puts more focus on him being a divey sticky isolating hero like illidan and then popping his stuff and teleporting to safety or reengaging. It also kills the shit out of squishies. Def worse on paper in team fights because it's not set it and forget it but can come out on top depending on the nature of the fight
But it's not mandatory by any means, just trying to give love to an underappreciated talent
Like another playstyle example would be memento mori at 16 vs the q range and cdr at 16, former maximizes dot dmg and compels you to reproc your trait and the latter is far superior for kiting (which he really should be doing!) and sustain over time
If you look at hotslogs the data favors trait build in clowne qm games pretty favorably, cant really go wrong with it
It runs counter to stuff like 13 armor talent, but only to the extent that ppl think malthael that max uptime on the talent is key when in reality popping it at the Correct time is key (spells down, quick multi-q).
Like back when meta was good it was still discouraged to do it into 5 as an engage, you get max health out of it but it's still the wrong thing to do; good players used it as another healthbar and to dodge a critical skillshot.
The lvl 4 q on malth is pretty strong but it puts more focus on him being a divey sticky isolating hero like illidan and then popping his stuff and teleporting to safety or reengaging. It also kills the shit out of squishies. Def worse on paper in team fights because it's not set it and forget it but can come out on top depending on the nature of the fight
But it's not mandatory by any means, just trying to give love to an underappreciated talent
Like another playstyle example would be memento mori at 16 vs the q range and cdr at 16, former maximizes dot dmg and compels you to reproc your trait and the latter is far superior for kiting (which he really should be doing!) and sustain over time
If you look at hotslogs the data favors trait build in clowne qm games pretty favorably, cant really go wrong with it
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The question is whether Malthael is already good enough at that w/o the Q talent at 4 though. With W at 1 you're already very sticky and the slow on Q only makes that better. Less damage on Q does mean the opposing team has more time to respond.
Memento Mori isn't really must take even with the quest fulfilled. Looking at competitive trait at 4 is standard but everything else is variable.
I've been goin
W Trait Q Torment Anyhting Q Res
Orochinagis
Member
Leoric players spamming that hammer heroic and surviving after a huge burst is sad, then his team kill us all
You're doing it wrong
Yeah as a talent it's unreliable and doesnt proc well in 5v5 but believe me, the situations where it IS applicable it's strong and id say in qm it's stronger because of that. In a pro environment i wouldnt ever get it because they will see the pick and play around it or at least make an attempt, in qm it's just "woow i died so quick to malth just now, no wonder he is the top winrate"
Memento mori vs. q cdr range was meant to illustrate playstyle differences, imo the q cdr fit malth better even when mmori was stronger
The standard build is fine though
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm gonna have to try it, you're a good salesman, unlike someone else
All i do is sell snake oil in this thread
Oh def try fear the reaper at 1 though, more usable than the w one and can get you procs that you wouldnt have been able to get
Id also recommend the burst on w at 7 instead of the q slow, but i guess it depends on the map. In qm the w at 7 has the neat effect of chunking the health bar, which the enemy really starts noticing with the lvl 4 q talent; in general ppl are used to malthael not chunking like this so theyll get scared and uncertain, itll often turn an unfavorable fight into a favorable one. You can still do something similar by kiting with the q and the q is more valuable 5v5 (heal reduc is op against stukov tho!), but this is a build about getting people to respect you because you are a death lord or whatever he is
Oh def try fear the reaper at 1 though, more usable than the w one and can get you procs that you wouldnt have been able to get
Id also recommend the burst on w at 7 instead of the q slow, but i guess it depends on the map. In qm the w at 7 has the neat effect of chunking the health bar, which the enemy really starts noticing with the lvl 4 q talent; in general ppl are used to malthael not chunking like this so theyll get scared and uncertain, itll often turn an unfavorable fight into a favorable one. You can still do something similar by kiting with the q and the q is more valuable 5v5 (heal reduc is op against stukov tho!), but this is a build about getting people to respect you because you are a death lord or whatever he is
I've played a ton of Malth recently. I'm 34-20 overall, 63% WR. When he first came out and he was OP my winrate was abysmal. I can't even remember but it was sub 40% for sure. He didn't click and I was using the standard back then which was W, Trait, Q, Souls, Physical Armor, Memento, E. It just didn't click.
I picked him back up after he was "nerfed into oblivion", which he actually wasn't. I started going the build I suggested earlier and he has worked out wonderfully for me. Brian is saying it's unreliable, but you can flank into the backline, AA someone then start spamming Q in a team fight. I do it all the time. I also average less than 2-3 (Hotslogs actually says 3.3, but my stats in-game vs Hotslogs are different, so idk) deaths a game on him, if I was guessing.
You can actually see here what I'm talking about in terms of winrate vs. talents taken now vs. back then.
I picked him back up after he was "nerfed into oblivion", which he actually wasn't. I started going the build I suggested earlier and he has worked out wonderfully for me. Brian is saying it's unreliable, but you can flank into the backline, AA someone then start spamming Q in a team fight. I do it all the time. I also average less than 2-3 (Hotslogs actually says 3.3, but my stats in-game vs Hotslogs are different, so idk) deaths a game on him, if I was guessing.
You can actually see here what I'm talking about in terms of winrate vs. talents taken now vs. back then.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Now that's a sales pitch. Not a fan of fear the reaper but otherwise pure Q build isn't that much of a deviation from the standard.
Have you tried standard build since?
Have you tried standard build since?
Yeah you can def get value off of it in teamfights esp if you alter your playstyle, i say it's unreliable because it's dependent on the enemy team being dumb. They are dumb maybe 75% of the time imo, i dunno i left my notes somewhere, but the talent still has the possibility of being dead in a team fight
Fear the reaper is also great for positioning his e and setting you up to bodyblock (tho w is pretty much enough)
Fear the reaper is also great for positioning his e and setting you up to bodyblock (tho w is pretty much enough)
It's really strong and unfun to play against but im not entirely sure itll get nerfed. If anything i think theyll up the pierce quest or lower the cdr, but at the same time the whole mechanic of "i chunked someone for a quarter of their health from offscreen and because of this i am entitled to chunk them again" might not be the best
It's very toxic in certain types of game. The owls are practically impossible to avoid when objectives are in play, they start hitting for a lot of health, and you end up with so much of the . It doesn't help that in quick match you can end up with a Medivh on your team and a Tyrande on the enemy team...
His W is god tier for jukes. I love it. People blow so many ults thinking HUEHUE I GOT HIM NOW. Then they're dead.
Elven_Star
Member
Just gave Kel'Thuzad a try. Talk about a glass canon! With a good tank, he can be devastating, but without one, all he's good for is wave clear. I know assassins are supposed to be fragile, but this one is even more so, because he has no means of escape. Compared to Li-Ming, Nova, Genji, Blademaster, and even Medivh for example, without a good tank and support, there is absolutely no hope of doing anything. Frost Nova does give you a 1 second window if you use it well, but in most cases, that's not enough (when you're chased by more than one hero for example). All in all, it's a very fun and useful hero to play, but your success is going to depend largely on your team's composition (aka forget about QM).
Cdr is def too high, pierce should see more value at a choke point but it shouldnt turn the choke point into a bullet hell minigame
W/r/t kt, hes def better with a proper comp but he doesnt need a comp to one-shot 2 heroes haha
Yeah thats why i recommend the 4% dmg on w for the oh shit he just did that factor, it might be worse than the q talent but it's about sending a message
W/r/t kt, hes def better with a proper comp but he doesnt need a comp to one-shot 2 heroes haha
Yeah thats why i recommend the 4% dmg on w for the oh shit he just did that factor, it might be worse than the q talent but it's about sending a message
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I can't wait for someone to try murky KTZ in competitive.
you can play it with the assassin build, just get ranger and the cdr at 13. you lose damage but that build has always been more about "whoa tyrande is here and she's doing good damage" than one-shotting ppl. with the owls you can chunk ppl forever as long as you hit 2, and if you only hit one your owl is back up incredibly fast.