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Hex MMOTCG Kickstarter by Cryptozoic Entertainment [Complete, ~$2.5 million funded]
- Thread starter piratepwnsninja
- Start date
Fragamemnon
Member
No, lands are bad. The effective punishment for drawing too many or too few is extremely severe. Why do you think Brainstorm and to a lesser extent Sensei's Divining Top/Sylvan Library is so popular in Legacy? Because they are cards that let you draw a more optimal number of lands and maximize the number of spells you can both draw while still being able to play all of those spells.
Resources/gem cards in this game are slightly better in design because flooding on them at least gets you charges you can use for your champion ability. I think the best resourcing system designed is in CZE's own WOWTCG, but that game has specific creature and action/instant card restrictions due to its class and factions that allow such a simple "colorless" system to work.
God why does this have to be a magic clone. There are so many clones out there.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I know Garfield is busy with SolForge but what if they announce that they hired Garfield on the team for this too? Magic has the best card mechanics (overall) out there so copying a great many of the mechanics isn't necessarily a bad thing regardless.
piratepwnsninja
Member
There are, but there aren't many GOOD ones. They seem to add mechanics that don't make sense over keeping the majority of what works and smartly evolving. I like what CZE seems to be doing in theory, but want to see how it works in practice before declaring it a great success.
Despite really being just mtg, I wouldn't mind starting fresh in a game like this since Magics ruleset is pretty solid, and there seems to be some nice quirks added on top of it.
Sadly, reading their forums it seems they tucked pvp-enabled cards behind a good ol' boosterpack paywall to make things "less confusing" with regards to what is/isn't allowed against live opponents, which really makes it difficult to not just keep playing mtg. With all the crazy shit this game seems to have, you'd think there would be some other way to approach monetization, and then add boosters on top of that as an extra.
Sadly, reading their forums it seems they tucked pvp-enabled cards behind a good ol' boosterpack paywall to make things "less confusing" with regards to what is/isn't allowed against live opponents, which really makes it difficult to not just keep playing mtg. With all the crazy shit this game seems to have, you'd think there would be some other way to approach monetization, and then add boosters on top of that as an extra.
Shadow Era is basically what this game is and is based on the WoW TCG which the Hex guys also made and this is extension of.
Point i'm trying to make that game has a very friendly consumer business model and without dumb mechanics like talents, sockets and evolving monsters. Booster packs and decks only cost $1 each, you can sell unwanted duplicates for in game gold and every level up gives you $1 worth of paid credits. Gold is also won from battles. The auction house system in Shadow Era is a supply and demand one like Runescape and the Guild Wars 1 material trader, the more there is of a card the cheaper it is in, the less there is one of the more expensive it is in gold.
The only thing holding Shadow Era back is its engine as it's cross platform between iOS/Android/PC/Mac/Linux.
I just find the whole PvE/PvP card sets in Hex just ridiculous. It's not a problem for other TCGs having one set. The benefit of a digital only game is you can balance cards.
Point i'm trying to make that game has a very friendly consumer business model and without dumb mechanics like talents, sockets and evolving monsters. Booster packs and decks only cost $1 each, you can sell unwanted duplicates for in game gold and every level up gives you $1 worth of paid credits. Gold is also won from battles. The auction house system in Shadow Era is a supply and demand one like Runescape and the Guild Wars 1 material trader, the more there is of a card the cheaper it is in, the less there is one of the more expensive it is in gold.
The only thing holding Shadow Era back is its engine as it's cross platform between iOS/Android/PC/Mac/Linux.
I just find the whole PvE/PvP card sets in Hex just ridiculous. It's not a problem for other TCGs having one set. The benefit of a digital only game is you can balance cards.
piratepwnsninja
Member
So you've played it?
I happened to find the difference between the two to be fine, as it allows them to do some more interesting mechanics while still having a very solid base to play against other people. Some of the most fun I've had with the WoWTCG is against the Dungeon and Raid decks, and that is what they're doing here with the PvE. They want to add a "progression" aspect to that, which is what the PvE specific cards do.
New video about Dungeons and Raids. Talk about the core conceits behind a few of the dungeons here, they seem to want to try some out of the box stuff - a dungeon that's an arena fight where a deck is given to you and you spend points based on your performance to improve your deck, a dungeon based on solving riddles, stuff like that. I remain unconvinced, but the stuff they're talking about sounds interesting.
It also bothered me for like the whole video that the dude didn't unbutton his blazer when he sat down.
It also bothered me for like the whole video that the dude didn't unbutton his blazer when he sat down.
Shadow Era is fun but way too simple. I actually like what they are trying to pull off here with the additional things, even though that might skewer the game balance. But even then, no one will force me to play MP, if I can try out the interesting things they have planned for the SP content even if my cards wont be tournament worthy.
Yeah, I usually dont like MMOs but this is the closest thing I'll get to Shandalar or the Pokemon TCG so I'll probably back once the Paypal option is up.
Random aside, there is a recent free TCG called Draconian Wars which has no Micropayments whatsoever that I linked in the Indie thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=551216
Definitely more interesting to play than Shadow Era (and as I said, no Micropayments).
This does look pretty good and is a close enough facsimile of Magic and has a competent interface (unlike MTGO). The fact that it has stuff you can do on your opponent's turn and in response to stuff makes it way more interesting gameplay wise than what I've seen so far from Solforge and Hearthstone.
Hmm. Definitely thinking about backing this at a big level. Free weekly drafts for life is such a tempting offer.
Hmm. Definitely thinking about backing this at a big level. Free weekly drafts for life is such a tempting offer.
Looks like this is going to finish funding soon. I'm curious about what they'll decide on for stretch goals.
I really don't want to play Magic (other than my problems with the resource system, the way combat works just never spoke to me), but this looks like it could grab enough of my card playing friends and take off even without them. And I'm itching for a well done TCG, and I get the advantage of jumping in early.
We'll see how long it holds me.
I miss VS. System.
I really don't want to play Magic (other than my problems with the resource system, the way combat works just never spoke to me), but this looks like it could grab enough of my card playing friends and take off even without them. And I'm itching for a well done TCG, and I get the advantage of jumping in early.
We'll see how long it holds me.
They're asking for suggestions over on their forums. A fair number are ridiculous but account authenticators seem to be a popular enough suggestion I'd expect to see that pop up, which is something I'm more than OK with.
While I'm 99 percent a limited player when it comes to TCGs, I'd be willing to buy into constructed with this game if it's significantly cheaper. My pipe dream is that the massive amount of packs seeded from Kickstarter will keep staples pretty cheap early on.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I don't think Wizards could because there seems to be enough different to differentiate itself (socketing, equipment, digital only, and different names of the mechanics, etc.). I do hope that one of the stretch goals includes Richard Garfield possibly helping with the game in some way. I have no idea if that will happen, and it's probably unlikely, but I can hope at least.
Also, as of right now, I'm at the Collector Tier.
Really, right now the tiers are so well thought out that the only thing I think they can do is add even more free packs or starter decks to all of them. We could ask for new cards, but we don't know enough of the game to make suggestions; they just have to show us more Kickstarter exclusive cards and then we'll see if we like them.
As for what else they can develop? I'd probably ask for spectator mode/replay options. Should be easy to some degree just by having a combat log.
Delusibeta
Banned
Tablet versions, obviously. Also, fund the second round of cards.
Basic mechanics are pretty much a carbon copy and I don't think anyone who played MtG will be able to dispute that. Having different names for the mechanics that pretty much works exactly the same definitely doesn't hold up against any potential legal arguments either.
It's more worrisome that since they're copying the cards from MtG, they probably do little playtesting for their cardsets which means that we will also get future cardsets that are basically again a retread of MtG cards, or if they actually come into designing their own, it will be badly balanced. Nothing in this game really inspire confidence about the basic gameplay holding its own since it feels like little effort was put into it.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
The resource system is like Magic, but it is different (threshold system, resources being colorless). Tapping (or exhausting in this case) was already disputed in court with another card game with the conclusion being that Wizard's patent was too vague and there's only so many ways to show that a card has done an action. Cryptozoic will be fine legally. It's hard to patent specific ways to play a card game unless the patents are very specific.
I have played MtG for years and I know how similar it is but it's still different enough to hold up easily in court.
They've also been working on this game for two years already. I hope they would have consulted lawyers in the beginning anyway like anyone should do.
Those most likely won't be stretch goals. They already have mobile versions planned eventually and they are already hard at work on Set 2. Set 1 is likely done already (650 total cards for Set 1 - 300 PVE cards and 350 PVP cards).
Delusibeta
Banned
Having looked at the various info, it seems that we're Kickstarting two games in one, a straight up online TCG and an RPG based on said TCG.
Also, I would ask for clarification on what "free drafts" mean. It appears that the draft requires three booster packs plus a fee (currently planned to be a dollar), which indicates that for the "free draft" you'd still need to find the three boosters.
Also, I would ask for clarification on what "free drafts" mean. It appears that the draft requires three booster packs plus a fee (currently planned to be a dollar), which indicates that for the "free draft" you'd still need to find the three boosters.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
That's basically correct. PVE cards can only be acquired in the PVE game (not booster packs) or, presumably, through the auction house.
It's been confirmed that the Pro Player tier includes the entrance free and the three booster packs for free (there's a button you can push once every week to use your free draft for that week). You also get to keep and trade those cards and rewards you may get in the draft.
Delusibeta
Banned
Oh really? That's great. I was concerned that the big pile of boosters from whatever level I was considering was going to be way less impressive PvP wise when half the cards turned out to be for the PvE side I might not even be interested in.
I've never gotten into a TCG before besides playing the Pokemon TCG back when the Gameboy Color game came out, but after watching the sample game they posted on youtube, I really want to throw down at least 35$ or so to ensure I get tons of cards and the exclusive. Would be awesome if they add iOS support and crossplay too as a stretch goal, so then I can play it on the go on my iPad too!
piratepwnsninja
Member
Upped mine to the Pro Player tier this morning. Getting essentially three free packs a week for the life of the product is too good to pass up.
The balance worries me for a different reason. There is stuff about Magic that I just plain dislike. I'm hoping that there will be enough interesting stuff to over come that disinterest, plus the decoupling of the usual paper TCG issues.
One example they gave was a plague card that does 2 damage to every monster in you and your opponent's deck. It's easier to use in a digital game since it automatically records the damage, removes any cards that would have died, and then remembers the damage for when you draw the card later. Just nicer bookkeeping, allowing the use of effects that would be more complicated in paper form.
Then again, since I avoid Magic I don't know if they put out a card like that anyway.
As for TCG issues, I like the fact that you gain extended art and foil versions by playing with the cards, rather than constantly opening packs.
Minsc
Gold Member
This card seems a little.. OP? 1/1 with first-strike for one mana and two sick abilities with a synergy? And, yes, it's a PVP card.
Hope they get the balance right.
I don't know, could go either way, looks like the kind of card that's only great if it's in your first hand (along with a second or even third). The extra raptors it makes get shuffled in to your deck, so there's no guarantee you'll see them any time soon either, and they're sorta weak so they'll get in the way of drawing better cards later on. The best thing seems to be the drawing an extra card.
How does equipment work exactly? Is it per card or per card type? That is, do you need to equip every card separately, even if it's the same card? So assuming a 4 max of the same card, would you need 4 boots and 4 calling blades? Also, if so, then the clones it puts in your deck wouldn't have the draw card bonus, so they'd be significantly less valuable.
I've played more than don't think the color pie thing holds weight at all. I've played more than 1 card game with that mechanic.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I think you have to find the equipment as you play and socket it into the cards. Thus I doubt the clones of that card would have those two effects it gets from the equipment making the card not as good as it looks.
So the more you play the better the cards in your deck get overtime.
Delusibeta
Banned
I think they're taking the Marvel approach to balance: most things are OP, hence most things are balanced.
They're both cribbing from Magic, which laid down the groundwork for most TCGs out there today.
Personally, I see it like arena shooters basing their weapons and game mechanics on Doom and Quake. If you know what you're setting out to accomplish, you might as well copy the best known execution of a similar concept.
I don't know. From my MTG experience a 1/1 for one mana with decent abilities is a pretty good pick. But I guess it would only really shine in a Draft or in a deck that is build around searching through your library a whole lot.
Also: I bet they refer to "exhausting" as tapped all the time in development. And some guy always goes like "NO! IT'S EXHAUSTED, NOT TAPPED!"
Looks like the little icon at bottom of the card is orange on PVP cards and red on PVE cards.
Cool that we'll get those Stretch Goals tomorrow. I really wonder what they have chosen to do.
So the Pro Player tier is essentially a free ticket into a tournament in which you can keep the cards drawn after completed?
I am not sure what I'll back, but that one does sound like it could save alot of money in the long run. If I am still as interested in this game in the last week, of this campaign, as I am now, I'll see if I can back for that tier.
I could already see myself buying boosters anyway, so it was going to cost some money either way.
Besides, on those HEX TCG forums I can see people wanting 3 of those Pro tiers on a single account.. what?
So the Pro Player tier is essentially a free ticket into a tournament in which you can keep the cards drawn after completed?
I am not sure what I'll back, but that one does sound like it could save alot of money in the long run. If I am still as interested in this game in the last week, of this campaign, as I am now, I'll see if I can back for that tier.
I could already see myself buying boosters anyway, so it was going to cost some money either way.
Besides, on those HEX TCG forums I can see people wanting 3 of those Pro tiers on a single account.. what?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's just for rarity
As for cards that look stupidly good.
This one comes to mind to me.
http://hextcg.com/rewards/
The pattern applies to all the cards on that page as far as I can see. It may show the rarity level but it looks like it also doubles as a PVE/PVP differentiator.
But I could be wrong.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's a token card. It spawns after you destroy the Lotus card (Lotus cards in my TCG :O?) Looks like they have a grey icon.