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Hex: Shards of Fate MMOTCG - Closed Beta Thread
- Thread starter ultron87
- Start date
40k life!?
Steaming again 
www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc
www.twitch.tv/hexedhavocJustProgress
Member
Patch notes:
They're also working on as general patch. Maybe Wave 2 contingent on this stability patch?
They're also working on as general patch. Maybe Wave 2 contingent on this stability patch?
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Yes. A thousand times yes. The actual gameplay is amazing. I have no worries about the gameplay - the only thing this game needs is time for polish, features to be finished, and overall stability.
The core gameplay is spot on though.
Also, those patch notes are REALLY promising.
That last new bug sounds hilarious. How does that suddenly show up lol.
At one point I had my deck at four cards - and they were all Eternal Youth:
So while I kept him locked down turn after turn with the ridiculous control offered by White/Black I just kept drawing and playing Eternal Youth, which is automatically shuffled back into your deck...
It's a blast! I love card games, and this is certainly no exception. Lots of fun to be had for sure. Is there anything in particular you would be interested in hearing about in more detail?
I see alot of bitching about escalation; however from your description it seems that control is the issue and not so much the escalation itself.
I don't know if control is really too much of an issue. The issue is that dumb card that removes all resources from your deck, it leaves you with a really small hyper efficient deck. Add in that 2 cost artifact that allows you to reshuffle cards into your deck and you have some really strong top decks.
I think any good Ruby/X aggro deck should be able to handle it fairly well. Toss in some resource destruction and you've nailed it. Control decks don't have nearly as much power when you're not top decking something useful every single turn.
I'm still in my break all the cards mode (bug testing), I think I'll make some decks that are actually competitive this weekend and try them out.
You don't need that Goblin for an escalation deck to work. It's just the easiest method. As long as you have card draw or even self mill with a lot of control mixed in, you can make it work.
The problem I'm seeing in general is that people aren't countering control decks effectively. Most others are just trying to play out their strategy and get a better draw first.
Because of stuff like Mesmerize, and that Diamond card that places "can't block or attack" text on your card, I'm surprised there aren't more revert cards being played.
Resource destruction wouldn't necessarily hurt an escalation control deck either, because they'll still have resources in their hand and from all the draws up until (and if they bother) playing that goblin.
The problem is you wind up discarding cards at some point and generally speaking you're going to ditch the resources first. Do we know for sure how much resource destruction is going to be in the base set?
I'm not sure that control will be such an issue once we have counterspells, which are completely absent right now. And, like Arveene said, the deck still really struggles against anything with a quick start, especially Green (although a well-timed Extinction can stop a Green deck pretty quickly - why are Murder and Extinction both Black?).
I don't think it will be a huge issue when the format is complete, but regardless, Demented Demolisher is the problem here, not Escalation (or control). Without Demented Demolisher, making this deck work would be a lot more difficult, and it would effectively negate the ridiculous shit you can do with Escalation.
It's true that you could mill yourself, but what you really need to do is void fluff from your deck, which there is not a whole lot - at least from what I've seen - outside of Demented Demolisher that fulfills that role. This allows you to reshuffle your graveyard without taking a bunch of junk you don't want with it (resources, in this case).
Under normal circumstances I don't actually think that Escalation is all that useful - it's nice to have, because most of the cards with it are good just by themselves, but it's definitely not something I would build a deck around.
I'm not sure that control will be such an issue once we have counterspells, which are completely absent right now. And, like Arveene said, the deck still really struggles against anything with a quick start, especially Green (although a well-timed Extinction can stop a Green deck pretty quickly - why are Murder and Extinction both Black?).
I don't think it will be a huge issue when the format is complete, but regardless, Demented Demolisher is the problem here, not Escalation (or control). Without Demented Demolisher, making this deck work would be a lot more difficult, and it would effectively negate the ridiculous shit you can do with Escalation.
It's true that you could mill yourself, but what you really need to do is void fluff from your deck, which there is not a whole lot - at least from what I've seen - outside of Demented Demolisher that fulfills that role. This allows you to reshuffle your graveyard without taking a bunch of junk you don't want with it (resources, in this case).
Under normal circumstances I don't actually think that Escalation is all that useful - it's nice to have, because most of the cards with it are good just by themselves, but it's definitely not something I would build a deck around.
helloresolven
Member
Yeah, if I get my King invite by the end of November, I'll be happy... I guess...
And ugh at the crazy people taking off work for an alpha invite.
And ugh at the crazy people taking off work for an alpha invite.
Yeah, weren't there people taking vacations just to play the alpha? That's just another level of crazy.
Who cares about card balance?
Anyone trying to balance the card sets at this point will just end up looking dumb. Alpha is not for testing, nor balancing the cards. Let's forget that there are over 70 cards in the basic set that haven't even been implemented yet.
Stop giving the devs problems over the cards and let them focus on making the game. You don't think that the studio hasn't tested both Escalation and DD decks?
Anyone trying to balance the card sets at this point will just end up looking dumb. Alpha is not for testing, nor balancing the cards. Let's forget that there are over 70 cards in the basic set that haven't even been implemented yet.
Stop giving the devs problems over the cards and let them focus on making the game. You don't think that the studio hasn't tested both Escalation and DD decks?
Minsc
Gold Member
I don't think any studio is anywhere near as exhaustive in finding exploits and flaws from card combos as the actual players, and I'd say this is true of any multiplayer game. That said, DD seems like a simple enough thing to test, being that it seems obvious one would use it to remove all resources so you can top deck escalation. So maybe that combo is not going to get nerfed, guess we'll see in due time.
JustProgress
Member
I don't think any studio is anywhere near as exhaustive in finding exploits and flaws from card combos as the actual players, and I'd say this is true of any multiplayer game. That said, DD seems like a simple enough thing to test, being that it seems obvious one would use it to remove all resources so you can top deck escalation. So maybe that combo is not going to get nerfed, guess we'll see in due time.
I agree. No Dev team is ever perfect in catching all of the broken cards or combos before release. Players always find something, so I don't consider it a flaw of CZE not to have found it in internal testing.
The real test is how they respond once something is determined to be utterly broken, or sitting on the threshold of being broken. Ban? Restrict? Change? Put out a direct counter in the next set? Do nothing? The response is way more telling than releasing it in the first place.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its a very interesting situation. I'm actually not sure if I like the idea of changing things that are broken. Like, banning or restricting I get, but "patching" a card rubs me the wrong way...
Cards are already changed, why they cannot change other cards during alpha?
I understand banning new cards when the game actually come out but now alpha is done for this thing too
Whaaat? Especially in alpha state.....
I believed that the whole point of a digital TCG was to ge unburdened with the "it is broken, deal with it" aspect of printed cards. There are two options here:
a. Either be VERY careful about what you put in a set (like Wizards, the amount of bannings in the past years were not too high, and that is a feat, considering the amount of cards generated yearly).
or... b) Just patch the broken things.
Banning is a good option when you have no control over the card, but when you have... why?
helloresolven
Member
They've already said they'll ban, not nerf cards.
They'll patch a card if it's mechanics aren't working as they expected (a bug), but they won't change a card's stats/abilities after it has been released.
They'll patch a card if it's mechanics aren't working as they expected (a bug), but they won't change a card's stats/abilities after it has been released.
It hasn't been released yet though, that's the point of alpha/beta.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Sorry, I get that they're totally going to change stuff in an Alpha. I was thinking in more of a long term sense going foreward
That is really their stance going forward? Weird, given how easy stuff is to modify in a digital game.
Nerds who spend lots of money on cards are scary, and not a group of people you want to make angry.
Ayup, as they already found out the hard way so far.
charlequin
Banned
Tweaking cards after they're released (and people have paid money for them) puts people in a state of constant fear and destroys any ability you have to get people invested in their collections. Taking the stance of leaving cards locked after they're released is absolutely the right thing to do.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Yup. It's actually really insightful thinking from CZE - that stance assures me this game is in the right hands.
How is this better than banning cards? Tweaked, they're at least still playable and not completely worthless. Or am I missing something?
Bannable only in regular tournament. If you want to use it with friends you can
Why would you spend money on PvP cards and not want to play tournaments? And who cares if the cards are tweaked if you're only playing friends?
Cards can be unbanned later or playable in legacy formats. A nerfed card will be junk forever
Trust me, don't bother questioning the logic - it won't get you anywhere. Long story short, collectors don't like having their stuff fucked with. They paid for what's on the face of the card, and changing that is what makes them angry. They might not be able to play it in competitive ranked formats, but that doesn't matter - it's about having the card.
CZE made the right call on this one.
TheContact
Member
This seems so much more complicated than Hearthstone, not saying that in a bad way
Yeah, it's definitely more in-depth. Hearthstone is a neat little game, very easy to pick up an play, and it can be a lot of fun - but there's not a whole lot to it. Hearthstone is to checkers as Hex and Magic are to chess.
They fill two very different niches, so it actually provides room for both to grow in this pc market.
I really can't wait to see how the PVE is in hex, as it's pretty ambitious in scope so far(wouldn't surprise me that if they have to tone down that scope).
charlequin
Banned
Banning is black and white and extreme. In most cases, cards won't need to be banned, and when they do, it's an extreme measure that happens at specified times and with great forethought and seriousness. The measurable effect of this, in real world examples, is very minor: occasionally people get bitten by investing in broken cards that then get banned, but generally it means people feel safe knowing that a card they buy will be worth what it's really worth. Banning also is less disruptive the more formats there are -- in Magic, for example, a lot of cards get banned in Vintage (all cards ever) but not Standard (most recent cards) or vice versa.
Errata is unpredictable. You might buy or trade for some super-expensive card, only for the cost to go up or some loophole in the effect to get closed, causing it to plummet in value. If errata is on the table, there's complete uncertainty -- what a card does at the moment might have nothing to do with what it does tomorrow, and one of the best cards in the game might turn into unplayable drek. This produces huge uncertainty in the market and leads to frequent instances of unhappy players.
The tl;dr here is that holding yourself to a banning-only policy means that there will be uncertainty around the very best cards in a format, but people can feel absolutely safe about everything else; using errata means there's never any certainty whatsoever about any card.
Spiritreaver
Member
Man, I got invited to play Magic with some friends the other day. They all had new decks and were so pumped to play and I was still playing with my old stuff. Just wasn't fun and I don't have the heart to drop more money on Magic when I already feel invested in this game. Not to mention I rarely see my friends anyway.
I probably should go ahead and make a new deck though, I doubt I'll be getting to play the alpha this year, lol.
I probably should go ahead and make a new deck though, I doubt I'll be getting to play the alpha this year, lol.
michaelius
Banned
Is this F2P or you must spend cash on playing Hex ?