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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
This is really a non-event indie films suck and who really watches them anyway? Nobody that's who!

Just thought I'd save the blu-ray guys the effort
 
Killthee said:
On demand disk? Why? Maybe it's because I'm not craving indie HD films, but I don't see the point in this. IMO, this would be great if you could rent an SD movie online and at the end of the film it would give you the option of buying an HD on demand disk.

Hmmm, not sure if you understand the concept.

Basically, some small/indy movie studio wants to put their movie on HD DVD. They bring it to CustomFlix which can be sold afterwards online exclusively on Amazon.

Customer wants movie "X", orders it, CustomFlix presses it on the spot for Amazon and then it is sent to you.

It really benefits both the movie maker (low cost) and the seller (more room in their warehouses, no inventory).
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
wow you cant pre-order 300 for HD-DVD or Blu-ray anymore on amazon.com

Seems like they sold out their alloted number of pre-orders.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
:lol Yea

lately..

MLB SHOW 07
Super StarDust HD
and soon Ninja G Sigma
 

SRG01

Member
The Main Event said:
Hmmm, not sure if you understand the concept.

Basically, some small/indy movie studio wants to put their movie on HD DVD. They bring it to CustomFlix which can be sold afterwards online exclusively on Amazon.

Customer wants movie "X", orders it, CustomFlix presses it on the spot for Amazon and then it is sent to you.

It really benefits both the movie maker (low cost) and the seller (more room in their warehouses, no inventory).

I'm pretty sure small indie studios don't have the equipment to produce a good HD transfer... :lol
 

Eggo

GameFan Alumnus
SRG01 said:
I'm pretty sure small indie studios don't have the equipment to produce a good HD transfer... :lol

Yeah I was wondering about this... if you're indy, are you really shooting in HD? Maybe they are, I don't watch a lot of indy flicks, but the ones I've seen haven't had the biggest budgets.
 

SRG01

Member
Eggo said:
Yeah I was wondering about this... if you're indy, are you really shooting in HD? Maybe they are, I don't watch a lot of indy flicks, but the ones I've seen haven't had the biggest budgets.

Even if they did have the equipment to make the transfer, they probably won't recoup the costs of making an HD transfer in the first place.

edit: Err. What I wrote sounds off. I'll fix it in the morning.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
SRG01 said:
I'm pretty sure small indie studios don't have the equipment to produce a good HD transfer... :lol


Either they are shooting film - in which case they have plenty of resolution. Or they are shooting on tape - in which case they probably use HD already to help with theater presentation
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I don't watch many indie films (mostly because I don't have much exposure to them), but maybe if I got some reviews and there were some stuff that I found interesting, I wouldn't mind trying out the program. And as far as Blood Diamond/300/Freedom Vol. 1, I find that stuff exciting. I could see why some wouldn't care, though, and it's definitely not worth the price of admission yet if you're already a BR supporter. Still, on a format I already have, it's pretty promising.
 
Days like these... said:
This is really a non-event indie films suck and who really watches them anyway? Nobody that's who!

Just thought I'd save the blu-ray guys the effort

Indie films, yes people watch them. The current Customflix offering (on DVD) are veryt lame, though. There's not a single one I've heard of before.

It's still a good/cool idea, there just isn't much available that way yet. If it were indie like the kind of indie that gets screen at Sundance it will be cool-- so far, it's more the movie equivilent of garage bands.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I don't even know when that program is supposed to start, or where I would look.

edit: some interesting tidbits from amir (again, taken from a message board, so not official):

on why he feels that HD DVD will remain lower cost than HD DVD for a long time:

There are a few reasons:

1. The optical pick-up in BD is much more expensive than HD DVD. Since DVD and HD DVD have the same recording depth, it is easier/cheaper to design a lens system that reads both (and CD). BD changes that yet again, requiring more expensive optics.

2. BD companies had one motivation behind BD format: to make the profits they did not make in DVD. They look at BD as a premium product to earn profits on. Other than Sony, the rest have no motivation to be aggressive wrt to pricing.

3. Toshiba is dead serious about HD DVD. More serious than any BD company other than Sony. So I expect them to continue to be more aggressive price wise. We have already seen this effect in the market.

4. Yes, Sony wants BD format to win as much as Toshiba wants HD DVD to win. But Sony would be loathe to underprice the other Japanese companies on stand-alone player to great extent. PS3, yes. Stand-alone, no. The other BD companies would revolt if Sony did this.

5. A number of BD companies have gone dual format like LG and Samsung. These products will cost more than straight HD DVD.


On why more companies don't do the HD DVD/DVD on the same side like Freedom Vol. 1:
Twin format is very desirable of course. Currently, it doesn't have the full capacity to be used instead of combo as it needs another layer to do that. But development is happenning in that area. And as soon as it is done, I do expect to see much more pick up with that format as you state.

On studios like Warner and Paramount just wanting to cash in rather than pick a side:

That is not the case. Studios make almost no money for HD titles. For most, they probably lose money given the small sales. And the studios which publish in both, lose even more money.

Warner and Paramount realize that by helping expand the market rather than pick sides, they can help grow it. And by investing strategically to release their top titles such as Matrix before there is real demand, they help solve the chicken and egg problem.


Apparently, some huge titles underway:
Yes, there are even bigger titles in the pipeline. By the end of the year, if you are an enthusiast, you have no excuse whatsoever to not invest in HD DVD!

On Warner and Paramount offering better specs on their HD DVD offerings vs. Blu Ray:
The issue is one of BD spec. They don't mandate new codecs so studios shoot for the least common denominator (why put in something that some people may not be able to experience). So lossless audio is left out as is higher rate DD+ encodes. Both Warner and Disney were clearly stated their policy here in DVD Forum which led to these codecs becoming mandatory, despite CE members groaning over the work of implementing them. But BDA was not moved by their feedback and left these codecs optional.

Also keep in mind that Sony encodes Paramount's BD titles so if there is something wrong there, you know where to look
 
Search for CustomFlix-- that's the name Amazon uses for that service. It hasn't started for HD-DVD, but there are some DVDs available that way.

It's early yet, it may blossom, but it hasn't yet.
 
Amir makes some good points, but I don't buy points #1 or #2 at all. The price difference is already shrinking rapidly (from $600 apart to $200 apart for standalones), and as far as #2, why does he think studios want in on HD-DVD as well? To maximize profits. Those combo discs are part of that -- additional rationale to charge more.

He may well be right about Toshiba being more aggressive, but cheaper prices aren't driving adoption, as the software sales show. That's the strategy, and they're executing to it well, but it isn't working.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Not you again. ****, where's the bryant reeves pic when you need it. You don't contribute anything but garbage to this thread, I hope you get banned.

And ignatz, I agree with most of what you said. Some of that stuff was definitely weak, and Sony is already undercutting with a standalone, right? He also made some good points. I know he sees a lot of behind the scenes stuff that (to him) puts HD DVD in a stronger light than what we see from our end, like the titles he hinted at.

Look at the Amazon deal. He's quoted on it, so he knew that stuff beforehand, and didn't comment on it. I wonder how much more there is that he knows about and how relevant it will be if HD DVD doesn't pick up in software sales.
 
Van, but that's true of any insider. I'm sure there were insiders who knew the Blockbuster thing was coming, too.

As fas as the Amazon thing-- great for consumers, but probably not a selling point for the format unless some significant releases hit. yet another reason for me to be jealous of HD-DVD without really helping the format (see also, significant number of Universal catalog titles).

Petrarca: what Van said.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Yeah, like I said, that stuff (plus the web enabled stuff for Blood Diamond/300/Freedom vol. 1) is cool, but probably won't push anyone over the edge into HD DVD territory, especially if they already bought into Blu Ray.

And aside from the titles involved, it likely won't push software sales, which is where Blu Ray is establishing its dominance. So, I don't know what titles he's hinting at, but even then, it's questionable how much impact individual titles will have as well. Matrix is selling well for an HD title (and expensive one at that), but it just wasn't the big impact many thought it would be. I honestly give the credit to Sony's Ps3 for lifting the Blu Ray format to the dominant position it's in right now. The HD DVD side has shown nothing that can compete with it in terms of putting players in people's homes (and thus potential buyers).
 
The PS3 is what pushed me over the edge, it was a really good move. I don't play enough videogames anymore to warrant a $600 system, and I didn't want to gamble $500-$600 for HD movies, even though I wanted them and didn't want to wait.

It clearly kept BluRay from being a loser out of the gate, which is where it was pre-PS3.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
The indie film things sounds pretty cool.. it also sounds like MS would be the ones doing the transfer/encoding for the movie.

Although, to be fair, most indie flicks that are decent get picked up by someone at least the size of Magnolia... for fox searchlight, WBi, etc.

So, your dealing with movies coming to this format with absolutely no publisher/distribution. I question how good those could be.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Ignatz Mouse said:
The PS3 is what pushed me over the edge, it was a really good move. I don't play enough videogames anymore to warrant a $600 system, and I didn't want to gamble $500-$600 for HD movies, even though I wanted them and didn't want to wait.

It clearly kept BluRay from being a loser out of the gate, which is where it was pre-PS3.

Ditto here. Even though the software lineup is pretty weak right now (though PSN is somewhat saving it with SSHD, CaC, etc.) it was kind of a no-brainer for me to get a PS3 once I was in the market for an HD player.
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
I was joking earlier. I think it'll help HD DVD pick up some indie movie fans. I wonder what film/s Amir was hinting at? I can only think of couple: LOTOR trilogy and Star Wars. You guys care to guess?

Oh and The Matrix works fine on my 360 add on
 
resizelj8.jpg


Hello!! In France, but I expect the same set here. :D
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Days like these... said:
I was joking earlier. I think it'll help HD DVD pick up some indie movie fans. I wonder what film/s Amir was hinting at? I can only think of couple: LOTOR trilogy and Star Wars. You guys care to guess?

Oh and The Matrix works fine on my 360 add on

Im thinking is LOTR and possibly some of Amblin entertainments movies (and maybe some of the older Dreamworks pictures back when they were with Universal, if they still have any rights to those). I dont think either format will see Star Wars at any point soon for either format.

Plus, it'll be the stupid "special editions".. maybe they will give us a 480i 4:3 encode of the real movies. :lol
 

jjasper

Member
Days like these... said:
I was joking earlier. I think it'll help HD DVD pick up some indie movie fans. I wonder what film/s Amir was hinting at? I can only think of couple: LOTOR trilogy and Star Wars. You guys care to guess?

Oh and The Matrix works fine on my 360 add on

Probably isn't Star Wars, and if that leaked list from Universal is true which so far everything has been correct it isn't anything from them either. My guess is Kill Bill or you could be right it might be LOTR.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Just the thought of LOTR in HD is enough for me to *insert crazy hyperbole here*. I hope we get it by the end of the year.
 
VanMardigan said:
Also keep in mind that Sony encodes Paramount's BD titles so if there is something wrong there, you know where to look[/I]

I've been looking into that for quite a while. Finally a confirmation.

As for Amir's other comments, I have yet to see a BD insider step up and counter everything Amir is saying about the BD business model/tech, etc. They seem to be pretty quiet (at least on AVS) compared to HD DVD insiders.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
So, if Sony didn't encode the movies for them, Paramount would likely be content with HD DVD only? That's what I was wondering when I read that quote. Smart move by Sony, for sure.

Also, what if MS offered to encode the HD DVD's for Fox and Disney?
 

djkimothy

Member
DarkJediKnight said:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8633/resizelj8.jpg

Hello!! In France, but I expect the same set here. :D

:eek:


070405_Hasek_vmed_6p.widec.jpg

Must get! Must get!

As for Amir's other comments, I have yet to see a BD insider step up and counter everything Amir is saying about the BD business model/tech, etc. They seem to be pretty quite (at least on AVS) compared to HD DVD insiders.

The HDDVD insiders have to be the most vocal in order to counter Blu-ray's success. They have to reach out to as many users possible. But doing it at a geek forum is really attention in the wrong place.
 

nofi

Member
VanMardigan said:
Just the thought of LOTR in HD is enough for me to *insert crazy hyperbole here*. I hope we get it by the end of the year.

Hell yes. I'd love that, assuming it's the extended versions of course...
 

methane47

Member
VanMardigan said:
2. BD companies had one motivation behind BD format: to make the profits they did not make in DVD. They look at BD as a premium product to earn profits on. Other than Sony, the rest have no motivation to be aggressive wrt to pricing.

LOL what? If other companies continue to price Bluray products up mount everest they won't get any sales.. therefor no profits.. Of course they want to be aggressive.. and stick around the price point where they can make the most profit.. and increasing the price doesn't mean more profit... if you sell half of what you would if the price was lower..

VanMardigan said:
3. Toshiba is dead serious about HD DVD. More serious than any BD company other than Sony. So I expect them to continue to be more aggressive price wise. We have already seen this effect in the market.

LOL what? THE MAIN proponent behind HD-DVD is DEAD serious about HD-DVD really? Did you also know Water is wet?
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Amir expands on the Amazon announcement:

The program is for this year, and even shorter time frame than end of the year. I suspect there will be hundreds new titles by fall and well surpass the 1000 mark by the end of the year. Indeed, our biggest worry is what to do when far more demand materializes than the current target.

At high level, this is super important news for movie fans, independent film makers, and of course, HD DVD.

1. If you are a movie fan, you will soon have access to more titles than both formats combined today. But more importantly, you will see a lot of fresh content, and not standard big budget movies you may already own on DVD. The content owners will negotiation the price with Amazon but I expect titles to retail for less than current Hollywood movies. So you will be able get great value to boot.

We already have a better breath of content due to deeper catalog from likes of Universal, wider availability of replication which attracts many smaller companies, and absence of region coding which allows you to import foreign films. This will provide an entirely new dimension to that offer.

2. For independent film makers, this is an incredible opportunity. Through this program, http://www.customflix.com/hddvdindies, they will get unprecedented level of distribution and access to their target customers. Amazon is the premier retail site for the discerning audience which is interested in their creativity. This, coupled with the fact that Amazon is the top retailer for HD optical and hardware, the program is liable to do for independent film makers, what Youtube did for personal videos. With cost of distribution zeroed out, and the best retail brand behind their content, they will not find a better way to get into film business.

Of course, Amazon will be screening for quality content but the analogy of YouTube still holds in taking away the cost of getting distribution. But more importantly, unlike YouTube, they will be able to make money from it, letting them fund new projects to develop their talent.

I know a good friend of mine would have wished this program had existed two years ago. He spent $400K of his own money, shot the whole movie in HD, just to get out of film making business because he couldn’t get people to carry his movie.

There is also another dimention of productivity not available to filmmakers before. With HDi interactivity and mandatory network connectivity, these film makers will be able to connect with their fans/customers directly and get valuable feedback on which direction to pursue, enrich the content with extras, and connect the customers who have similar interests together (see the review of the movie Blood Diamondon networked community features: http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/blooddiamond.html.

Keep in mind that due to sharp reduction in the cost of HD production, many of independent movies are shot in high-def already but currently reduced to DVD resolution. With this program, they will be able to distribute their content in original resolution.


3. For HD DVD, this is an amazing vote of confidence from the top retailer in this space. Amazon sees the strength of HD DVD, both from technology point of view, and the fact that their own numbers show it to be the highest sales ranking of any HD optical format (Toshiba HD DVD players are always in top-10 list of DVD players). They are also an active participant in DVD Forum so they are very familiar with HD DVD specifications. So for them it was natural to use HD DVD for this program.

What’s more, this announcement shows more innovation yet again from HD DVD camp. We pushed the envelope on interactivity better than any other. And now, with manufacturing on demand, we pull ahead with new ways of getting HD content distributed to consumers.

Using this process and HD DVD, Amazon is able to get a competitive advantage as compared to traditional stores because they willl be able to essentially have limitless amount of content. By working with us to produce a highly optimized and automated process using VC-1/HDi, Amazon is able to cut costs and run programs like this. No other format would enable them to do it this as well.

Note that discs produced this way will look no different on Amazon than any other commercially produced HD DVDs. In other words, in a few months you will see 1000+ HD DVDs in Amazon inventory with no distinction between MOD and mass replicated content. As such, customers are going to see the incredible depth of offerings in HD DVD, all presented to them in a familiar setting. The only notable difference being that titles get produced on demand after the order, making every title "available in stock" regardless of demand. Such a system removes any cost a retailer may have in stocking “two formats” as there is no shelf space wasted. Yet, the breath and quality of the content increases substantially.

Personally, I am exceptionally pleased to be associated with this effort. In our foray in Digital Cinema with VC-1 a few years ago, we sponsored Sundance film festival and had the pleasure of meeting Robert Redford and seeing his passion around getting new creative talent into film making. I got to meet a number of the directors/producers of indie content, hearing their concerns about getting distribution. Digital cinema allowed them to reduce the cost of projection, but not retail distribution. This announcement removes that final barrier between them and the movie buffs who enjoy content that makes them think, as much as entertain. It is a great win-win-win situation for everyone involved.

Now, how to find the time to watch 1000+ movies! I guess this is a good problem to have
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Van. Just give it up. This Amazon deal is not going to be HD-DVD's blockbuster deal no matter how much you want it to be.

So please stop flooding this thread with text walls of Amir's quotes.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Wasn't Star Wars distributed by 20th Century FOX?

And LOTR, isnt that both formats from New Line(which hasnt released anything in HD yet right?)

Oh and spiderman box set get!
 
The Main Event said:
I've been looking into that for quite a while. Finally a confirmation.

As for Amir's other comments, I have yet to see a BD insider step up and counter everything Amir is saying about the BD business model/tech, etc. They seem to be pretty quiet (at least on AVS) compared to HD DVD insiders.

I don't see any reason to dispute his main points-- it's no secret that BD and HD-DVD are going different routes to acheive success. HD-DVD players have always been cheap, and will continue to be, although that difference is narrowing in absolute cost and percentage difference... and Universal is aggressively pushing catalog titles for lack of blackbusters and interactivity to counter lack of studio support. No one is disputing that they are doing these things.... and yet, they are not working. What's to debate?
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
As for Amir's other comments, I have yet to see a BD insider step up and counter everything Amir is saying about the BD business model/tech, etc. They seem to be pretty quite (at least on AVS) compared to HD DVD insiders
this just in Consumer electronic companies like profits, news at 11.
 

Oni Jazar

Member
druie said:
Just when you thought they were down and out! :D

Indie titles with no name (or non existant) publishers will not bolster the format in any reasonable way. The only thing that the mass market will care about will be current major titles. Titles like Spiderman 3, Pirates 3, Ratatuille, Die Hard 4, Harry Potter 5, Simpsons, Transformers, Fantastic 4, etc.

Only one of those movies listed above is not a BD exclusive (HP5 which is format nutral). This holiday will not be pretty for the HD DVD format unless they pull a hail mary pass of LOTR proportions.

Indie movies are the last titles that people want to see in HD imo. Ironically Digital distribition would be a beter delivery format for those titles since it would be much cheaper to distribute and get to a demanding audience. I've watched a few crazy indie stuff on Comcast's On Demand service but I would never blind buy one.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Crayon Shinchan said:
Van. Just give it up. This Amazon deal is not going to be HD-DVD's blockbuster deal no matter how much you want it to be.

So please stop flooding this thread with text walls of Amir's quotes.

I haven't even mentioned blockbuster. What's your problem? And if the rest of the regulars agree that I shouldn't quote stuff from amir (no matter how relevant), then I won't.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
captive said:
Wasn't Star Wars distributed by 20th Century FOX?

And LOTR, isnt that both formats from New Line(which hasnt released anything in HD yet right?)


1) Fox does distribute the movies, but Lucas has distribution rights. So, technically he could go with Universal and release on HDDVD if he wanted to. More likely he will stick with Fox, but it will be years before they come out given his track record.

2) LOTR would be format neutral.. but Amir did say big releases, not a big exclusive releases...

Edit: Amirs posts when pertinent are good news. Take it with a grain of salt because it is slanted, but he does know things.
 
VanMardigan said:
I haven't even mentioned blockbuster. What's your problem? And if the rest of the regulars agree that I shouldn't quote stuff from amir (no matter how relevant), then I won't.

I'm good with it. It saves me reading the cesspool of avsforum. :)
 

yacobod

Banned
Oni Jazar said:
Indie titles with no name (or non existant) publishers will not bolster the format in any reasonable way. The only thing that the mass market will care about will be current major titles. Titles like Spiderman 3, Pirates 3, Ratatuille, Die Hard 4, Harry Potter 5, Simpsons, Transformers, Fantastic 4, etc.


transformers is from paramount/dreamworks

it should be on both formats i think
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
yacobod said:
transformers is from paramount/dreamworks

it should be on both formats i think

And no mention of Bourne Ultimatum? For shame!

Anyway, Blockbuster's response to emails from HD DVD fans:

Dear Valued Blockbuster customer, Thank you for your feedback regarding our decision to expand our Blu-ray inventory in more than 1,700 corporate-owned stores nationwide. Please note that this expansion will not impact the current inventory of HD-DVD titles in store or online. Blockbuster continues to carry HD-DVD in about 250 stores and also offers HD-DVD titles online. We are not endorsing either format and have no desire to lead customers to a certain format choice. Our goal is to offer customers the most convenient access to the movies they want and that means giving them the best availability and the best selection possible in the formats they prefer. Blu-ray rentals have been outpacing HD-DVD rentals in our stores where We’ve been offering the high-definition format 70 to 30 percent in 2007. Additionally, because more studios support the Blu-ray product, there’s a wider selection of titles available on this format to offer to our customers. While it is still too early to say which high-definition format will become the industry standard, we will continue to closely monitor customer rental patterns both at our stores and online, so we can adjust our inventory mix accordingly and ensure that Blockbuster is offering customers the most convenient access to the movies they want, in the format they want. That may mean in the future that we will add HD-DVD titles to additional stores. Sincerely,

The first bold is particularly lol-worthy.
 
Whether Blockbuster is leading or following, it's still a sign of the trend.

Read that wrong... actually, I believe them. I don't think they're trying to influence that much, or they would have dropped HD-DVD altogether.
 
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