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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
omg rite said:
You didn't notice that the post above yours posted this?

Your surprised at him? :lol

omg rite said:
Anyway, why are people arguing over being SHILLS for any format? This whole "war" is stupid. Neither of them are going to last, Blu-ray may just last longer. :p

Hardly, as HDTV adoption continues to propel forward, the demand for HD Content continues to increase. But the earlier the war is resolved the better for the adoption of a format.
 

yacobod

Banned
Petrarca said:
The original focus of this thread is to show blu-ray's momentum. Actually this thread has another purpose, is to contain the format war within one thread, now we don't want to see 50 threads of format war now do we?


haha that is fresh

this guy does his best to turn this thread into verbal diarrhea every time he posts, now hes playing the good guy :lol
 
Petrarca said:
AACS, HD-DVD one and only protection, is completely BUSTED!! can we say nekkid HD-DVD :lol
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/003721.html


Now Blu-ray also uses AACS, but FOX had said in the wake of AACS downfall, they had ordered future blu-ray discs to implement blu-ray second and third protection mechanisms, BD+ and BD-ROM

Those will get cracked too, you can't expect those to protect them either. Exactly why do you guys use DRM to support Blu-Ray, it means bad things for us and it just means we will be forced to buy more than one copy of the same title. YES, DRM is bad for consumers!
 

Sephiroth

Member
yacobod said:
poor manabyte all the bluray guys are picking on him
yacobod said:
haha that is fresh

this guy does his best to turn this thread into verbal diarrhea every time he posts, now hes playing the good guy :lol
Did anyone else notice the utter irony in this guy's posts?
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
TheJesusFactor said:
Those will get cracked too, you can't expect those to protect them either. Exactly why do you guys use DRM to support Blu-Ray, it means bad things for us and it just means we will be forced to buy more than one copy of the same title. YES, DRM is bad for consumers!

I personally think DRM sucks for downloadable content, but when it comes to physical media.. it becomes a more grey area.

But that is another debate, for another thread.
 
edited for being out of date with news.

cracked copy protection is a good thing for consumers... and i think many consumers know that.
 

Sephiroth

Member
yacobod said:
ya because i was the only person to express those same sentiments on the previous page

You're being a hypocrite 'cause first you complain about Bluray fans picking on Manabyte but then you personally attack Petrarca and you weren't the only one. Whatever no harm done it's understandable HD-DVD fans to be bitter the way things are going for HD-DVD.
 
Sephiroth said:
You're being a hypocrite 'cause first you complain about Bluray fans picking on Manabyte but then you personally attack Petrarca and you weren't the only one. Whatever no harm done it's understandable HD-DVD fans to be bitter the way things are going for HD-DVD.
it is stupid to be a 'fan' of any video format when they're a wash in terms of picture quality and sound quality.

whichever format wins will see all the studios support it.

is that probably going to be blu-ray? yes.

is there any reason i should care which one wins? absolutely not.

they are just as good as each other.

jumping up and down with glee whenever theres good news for one or the other is one of the most stupid things i've seen on gaf.

it's more stupid than the console wars because in that case there are at least technical differences between the consoles that matter to the people supporting them.
 

Wulfer

Member
Where's the NPD's for January? Some of you need a reality check and for some it's going to hit hard!

Edit: I'm talking about Hardware #'s as in PS3, 360 Player, HD-DVD-Blu-ray player sales for Jan.... Software is good but there is a alot of ground to make up almost a year with no software sales.
 

Sephiroth

Member
plagiarize said:
it is stupid to be a 'fan' of any video format when they're a wash in terms of picture quality and sound quality.

whichever format wins will see all the studios support it.

is that probably going to be blu-ray? yes.

is there any reason i should care which one wins? absolutely not.

they are just as good as each other.

jumping up and down with glee whenever theres good news for one or the other is one of the most stupid things i've seen on gaf.

it's more stupid than the console wars because in that case there are at least technical differences between the consoles that matter to the people supporting them.

Don't take this so literally I used whatever designation came to mind. I could have said HD-DVD supporters. The truth is though that Bluray has all the studio support and all the sales and it seems impossible now for the situation to turn around. So the sooner this stupid war is over and HD-DVD is canceled the better for HD and consumers.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Sephiroth said:
Don't take this so literally I used whatever designation I thought first. I could have said HD-DVD supporters. The truth is though that Bluray has all the studio support and all the sales and it seems impossible now for the situation to turn around. So the sooner this stupid war is over and HD-DVD is canceled the better for HD and consumers.

Yeah, i'm personally just mad at Universal :lol
If HD-DVD had the kind of support that Blu-Ray has, and it was Sony being the only exclusive company to blu-ray, i'd likely be on the other side of this "War".

Frankly, the quickest means to an end is with Blu-Ray, and I don't see that changing.
 
Sephiroth said:
Don't take this so literally I used whatever designation I thought first. I could have said HD-DVD supporters. The truth is though that Bluray has all the studio support and all the sales and it seems impossible now for the situation to turn around. So the sooner this stupid war is over and HD-DVD is canceled the better for HD and consumers.
i wasn't specifically calling you or anyone else out, but the amount of spin in this thread from both sides is crazy, espescially given as i said that both formats are a wash for picture quality and sound quality.

the truth is that blu-ray has more of the major studio support and more of the sales right now. it doesn't have all of either, and while it's unlikely for things to turn around it certainly isn't impossible. those january sales seem to be about 1/3rd to 2/3rds with a very slow movement towards more blu-ray.

you or i have no way of knowing if this is a spike due to people 'checking out' the format and catching up on past releases or if blu-ray is going to continue slowly taking things over.

do i want things to turn around?

i don't care.

i can play both. i like both, and i will buy any film i want on whichever it is available, or if it is available on both, whichever version is the best/cheapest (which will be a coin toss i'd bet in almost every example).
 
plagiarize said:
....the amount of spin in this thread from both sides is crazy...

you or i have no way of knowing if this is a spike due to people 'checking out' the format and catching up on past releases or if blu-ray is going to continue slowly taking things over.
...


If the spin bugs you, don't contribute to it. Speculation like this is a reaction to BD sales passing HD DVD, and oddly enough, nobody was suggesting reasons that HD sales might have been artificially high.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
If the spin bugs you, don't contribute to it. Speculation like this is a reaction to BD sales passing HD DVD, and oddly enough, nobody was suggesting reasons that HD sales might have been artificially high.
jeez.

all i did was put forwards a hypothetical way that it might not be 'impossible' for things to turn around and i get accused of spin myself?

look up a few posts and you'll see me saying that at this point it's most likely that blu-ray will win.

you'll see in the post you quoted from that i said a turn around was unlikely.

so it's spin to suggest that a turn around is an unlikely possibility and back that up with a hypothetical?

some how i don't think so.
 

Meier

Member
Sheesh, I didnt check out the thread for awhile and boy did I miss Zaptruder being obnoxious. Yikes! Babel and The Departed on HD are my next purchase.. probably will wait a week or so to make sure I get my 10% discount.

Does anyone know if The Illusionist is coming out on either HD or BR?
 

Bebpo

Banned
plagiarize said:
not just a 5 star transfer. they called it the best blu-ray transfer yet.

not on my buy list though, but i did pre order casino royale today.

Actually they said it was the best blu-ray transfer from Buena Vista. Not the best blu-ray transfer overall.
 

yacobod

Banned
cool, ill have to pick this up in march when i finally get my ps3 and bond

idk a good (4.5 or 5 star) transfer is more important to me than commentaries and special featues, i have so many "collector's edition" dvds, that those 2nd discs could be coasters for all i care
 

jjasper

Member
Meier said:
Does anyone know if The Illusionist is coming out on either HD or BR?

Not yet, I think Fox has something to do with the distribution in the US (not sure though) so it might come out for BD at some point I guess.

djkimothy said:
Garr! I never went to see this in the theatres. Is this worth picking up?

I thought it was a great movie, one of my favorites from '06.
 

yacobod

Banned
Bebpo said:
Actually they said it was the best blu-ray transfer from Buena Vista. Not the best blu-ray transfer overall.


im interested to see where it falls on the avsforum PQ Tier ranking
 
Bebpo said:
Actually they said it was the best blu-ray transfer from Buena Vista. Not the best blu-ray transfer overall.

This is what high-def is all about. 'The Prestige' is an absolute home run from Disney and, yes, I would rank it up there with the best transfers I've seen on high-def yet.

It does seem quite impressive. Hopefully more and more studios will use MPEG4 as their primary codec for their transfers.

That said, I wonder how the HD-DVD UK version will stack up against the US/UK Blu-Ray version. Judging by most Warner releases, I don't think it'll disappoint either.
 
The Main Event said:
It does seem quite impressive. Hopefully more and more studios will use MPEG4 as their primary codec for their transfers.

That said, I wonder how the HD-DVD UK version will stack up against the US/UK Blu-Ray version. Judging by most Warner releases, I don't think it'll disappoint either.
i guess Nolan is just the don of overseeing transfers.

and yes, i see i misread what they said... still, one of the best if not the best :)
 

Wulfer

Member
Here a more accurate picture of the HD war from forbes...

FUD SPRAYER'S SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP! Yes it says Blu-ray is leading no it doesn't say HD-DVD is DEAD!





"A bust in 2006, the big showdown between two competing high-definition disc standards finally started to look like the "format war" it was billed as.

At the Consumer Electronics Show last month, for starters, there was actually terrain to fight for, with a retail price war for HDTVs over the holidays greatly enhancing the number of target consumers.

There were splashy propaganda parades where, at separate gatherings, both sides explained to their constituents "why we will win."

At the HD DVD camp's Sunday night event at CES, format denizens touted an impending flood of inexpensive set-top players, with Toshiba skedded to deliver 1.8 million boxes by year's end and three Chinese brands set to release HD DVD players that will be even cheaper.

A day later, a panel of top execs from Blu-ray signatory studios touted software supremacy, noting 19 of the 20 top-selling titles from last year are available in their format, vs. only six for HD DVD.

There were also peace overtures from neutral parties, with Warner Bros. introducing a new disc that combines both formats and LG Electronics bowing a $1,200 set-top that will play back both flavors.

And subsequently, there have been statements -- from the Blu-ray side -- that are tantamount to victory proclamations: "I characterize it as the beginning of the end of the format war," says Disney homevid topper Bob Chapek, noting that as of early January, Blu-ray movie titles were selling twice as fast as those on HD DVD. "We're very rapidly going to see it become a one-horse race over the course of the year."

"We're really starting to put some distance between (Blu-ray and HD DVD)," adds Sony Home Entertainment worldwide prexy David Bishop. "We project that ratio will only continue to widen."

Certainly, to the continued frustration of retailers like Best Buy, which views the twin-format issue as a confusing proposition to sell to consumers, the other side hasn't quit.

Ken Graffeo, exec VP for Universal -- the only studio releasing titles exclusively in the HD DVD format -- notes Toshiba couldn't even put out enough players to meet HD DVD demand during the fourth quarter. He also dismisses Blu-ray's claim of software supremacy during the month of January, pointing to the fact that U didn't release any new HD DVD titles during that period.

Indeed, supported by powerful backers including Microsoft, as well as the pornography trade -- which can't get the Blu-ray camp to manufacture discs for it -- HD DVD appears far from wilting.

For his part, New Wave Entertainment prexy Mike Meadows -- whose shop produces bonus features for both of the new formats -- says he would have heard something if someone from the HD DVD camp decided to surrender.

"We don't have anybody calling us saying maybe we shouldn't do this or that after all," he explains. "That would be the first indication that one side has won and the other has given up."

"For one side to declare victory at this point is laughably premature," Graffeo adds. "Both formats don't have (many) players in the marketplace yet."

He notes the total installed base of Blu-ray and HD DVD playback devices numbers less than 2 million at this point. "When we get to 22, 24 million homes, then we'll be talking about a mass market."

Happily for both sides, that market could happen sooner rather than later. According to the Digital Entertainment Group, 5 million HDTVs were sold in the U.S. during the fourth quarter of last year, a sales uptick that should continue in '07, with many retailers selling plasma, LCD and DLP TVs at -- or near -- wholesale cost.

With better marketing and fulfillment -- besides Toshiba's HD DVD shipment troubles, Blu-ray suffered in '06 from the delayed bow of the disc-drive-equipped Sony PlayStation 3 -- both sides are poised to greatly exceed the combined $1 million in sales they generated during their fledgling first year.

"There's no question that the greatest opportunity is the fact that there will be another 15 (million) to 18 million HDTVs sold this year," says Steve Nickerson, Warner's senior VP of market management.

Hoping to uncap the potential of this market and spur on consumers who are waiting for one format to display supremacy before making a purchasing decision, Nickerson's unit unveiled Total HD at CES -- discs that support both formats.

"Anything that would help take the pressure off the consumer at this point is good," notes Kelley Avery, homevid topper for Paramount, which, like Warner, releases titles in both formats. Par is currently exploring the possible use of Total HD discs itself.

Treaty proposal

Even if the Blu-ray camp's proclamations of dominance bear out, such a dual-format solution has value, Nickerson says, if only to help tap into the small portion of the market that made the other purchasing decision.

"As the installed base for each format grows, it will be harder and harder for the other to disappear," he notes. "If one side has a dominant market share, but the other has an installed base of 3 (million) or 4 million players, how can we not sell product to those people?"

For their part, however, those studios firmly rooted in the Blu-ray camp show little enthusiasm for compromise.

"Not interested," proclaims Fox senior VP of corporate and marketing communications Steve Feldstein, discussing the hi-def format issue with Variety, along with Danny Kaye, Fox's senior VP of research and technology strategy.

According to Kaye, such a combo product -- which splits the limited gigabytes of a single disc among two digitally dense formats -- would leave little room for next-gen bonus features. These Java-based extras promise -- once they're actually baked -- to make the new discs worth buying in the first place.

"If you only have a single layer for each format, you're not getting the best of either one," Kaye says.

Besides, with 1 million Blu-ray-drive-equipped PlayStation 3 consoles shipped, and six out of seven major studios supporting the format -- vs. only three for HD DVD -- Blu-ray adherents say they don't feel the need to compromise. In fact, Fox officials say they'll now begin to accelerate their Blu-ray release sked while the wind is in their sails.

The format war, Kaye notes, will be settled by the next holiday season.

While they don't seem close to admitting defeat, HD DVD adherents concede they missed a golden opportunity in 2006, when delayed Blu-ray hardware was stumbling into the marketplace.

"We missed the holiday season" by not getting enough players into stores," Graffeo notes. "We were all disappointed by it."

"No one has won," adds billionaire media mogul Mark Cuban, whose Magnolia Home Entertainment releases movies in both flavors. "But Blu-ray has done a great job of marketing, and I would say they are in the lead."

http://www.forbes.com/digitalenterta...arietydvd.html


This was the kind of info this thread was created for... None of the studios are packing up and quitting none are changing sides at this time!
 
^^^

Pretty much the best article since CES yet.

And Jaws seems to be coming after all on HD-DVD:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Universal/Steven_Spielberg/Disc_Announcements/Kevin_Smith:_Jaws_to_Take_a_Bite_Out_of_HD_DVD_After_All_/475

"Allow me to debunk," Smith told the online blog Slashfilm. "I dropped an email to [Universal Studios Chairman] David Lindeto ask if this was true, and he said folks are confused: there's an HD 'Jaws' DVD on its way, but no 'Jaws 5,' straight-to-DVD."

Smith also went on to add: "And if you can’t believe Universal’s top brass, who can you believe?"
 

Wulfer

Member
What I found interesting was this line!

Hoping to uncap the potential of this market and spur on consumers who are waiting for one format to display supremacy before making a purchasing decision, Nickerson's unit unveiled Total HD at CES -- discs that support both formats.

"Anything that would help take the pressure off the consumer at this point is good," notes Kelley Avery, homevid topper for Paramount, which, like Warner, releases titles in both formats. Par is currently exploring the possible use of Total HD discs itself.

Even if the Blu-ray camp's proclamations of dominance bear out, such a dual-format solution has value, Nickerson says, if only to help tap into the small portion of the market that made the other purchasing decision.

"As the installed base for each format grows, it will be harder and harder for the other to disappear," he notes. "If one side has a dominant market share, but the other has an installed base of 3 (million) or 4 million players, how can we not sell product to those people?"

If that's true then as userbase continues to grow on both sides. It looks like (Warner/Par)
will continue to release the TRU HD cases long after one side is gone. (Kiss those Blue/Red cases goodbye for these two studios it looks like!)
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Total HD is where the industry needs to go. Screw one dying off...shit is going to take way too long.

They should truely consider unification
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Any word on how Chronos is on Blu-Ray?

I like to try to vary my collection

Also, the Planet Earth (BBC Series) Looks like a good deal too. Amazon has it listed at $69.95, only $15 dollars more then the DVD version (Qualifies for 10% off too for those who bought 3 last year)
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
BlueTsunami said:
Total HD is where the industry needs to go. Screw one dying off...shit is going to take way too long.

They should truely consider unification

No, that a terrible idea.
If anything the hybrid players make more sense.
 

Oni Jazar

Member
plagiarize said:
do i want things to turn around?

i don't care.

i can play both. i like both, and i will buy any film i want on whichever it is available, or if it is available on both, whichever version is the best/cheapest (which will be a coin toss i'd bet in almost every example).

Screw that. This format war sucks. Until this war is resolved we will never see AAA titles released like Back to the Future and Star Wars.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Oni Jazar said:
Screw that. This format war sucks. Until this war is resolved we will never see AAA titles released like Back to the Future and Star Wars.

No, it just takes a user base, not the death of either format.
 

Wulfer

Member
Midas said:
How does this Total HD thing work? One side Blu-ray and the other one HD-DVD? That would suck...

That's how it works! :) (and from the looks of things you better learn to like it because Warner will only release this way and Paramount is looking to release this way! (That's a lot of films!))
 
Suikoguy said:
Any word on how Chronos is on Blu-Ray?

No reviews yet that I've seen. We do know the specs changed, as the Blu-ray version is apparently a different transfer, at 1080p instead of 1080i like the HD DVD version, and with better audio options.

The Blu-ray version will sport a new 1.78:1 widescreen 1080p video transfer (version 1080i on the HD DVD), plus a DTS HD Master Lossless Audio surround track at a full 48kHz/24-bit encode, also an improvement over its rival. Supplemental features are expected to be identical on both releases.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...MAX/Koch/Koch_Readies_Chronos_for_Blu-ray/457


ELECTRONICS retailer JB Hi-Fi has thrown its weight firmly behind Blu-ray in the coming high-definition DVD format war, announcing it will only stock Blu-ray products.

Speaking at the official launch of Blu-ray in Australia by the Australian Blu-Ray Disc Working Group, JB Hi-Fi marketing manager Scott Browning said Blu-ray technology and discs would be the only high-definition format the chain would support, apart from selling drive units for the Xbox 360 console which will support the rival HD-DVD format.

He said 10 per cent of the floor space at the chain's stores would be devoted to Blu-Ray technology and titles by the year's end.

He predicted this would probably increase to 30 per cent by Christmas 2008.

I'm not Australian...so I have to ask--how big is this chain in Australia? How big is the market for movies there? Is this a big deal for Blu-ray in Australia, or not?
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
cank stoochie said:
microsoft am cry. everyone seems to be ignoring vc1

Is it really all that surprising when AVC is enough?
 

Petrarca

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
No reviews yet that I've seen. We do know the specs changed, as the Blu-ray version is apparently a different transfer, at 1080p instead of 1080i like the HD DVD version, and with better audio options.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...MAX/Koch/Koch_Readies_Chronos_for_Blu-ray/457


I'm not Australian...so I have to ask--how big is this chain in Australia? How big is the market for movies there? Is this a big deal for Blu-ray in Australia, or not?

it's one of Australia major electronic chain store, it could be the biggest one
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Whatever the case is; as long as Universal chooses to remain fiercely loyal to HD-DVD, the HD market as a whole will suffer; Total HD, combo players; don't matter. They're just bandaid solutions to the problem... and the problem is the confusion generated. You can see how those two solutions don't really deal with that then.

PS3s will undoubtedly present a significant force to early HD adoption; Even if Sony only sells some 6-10 million by years end, it'll have outstripped other HD players by several fold... not just HD-DVD players.

What good will Total HD, combo players do for that market? When the issue here is Universal's neutrality? Nothing really.

Is there something for Universal to win if they manage to stick it out? Yeah... they get a moral victory I guess; they're the guys with the red disc.

But if they do win; holding out long enough to cause combo players to become the order of the day... HD won't die; far from it... but it also won't be in a better position then if Universal would choose to go neutral within the year.

I think retailers like JB-Hifi definetly see and innately understand the advantage of a single unified format; they don't split their show floor between two similar competing, incompatible products.
 

Jumpman

Member
ManaByte said:
HD Digest did direct comparisons between the uncompressed PCM and Dolby TruHD tracks on The Departed and said that while the uncompressed PCM was a very slight improvement; most people really won't be able to tell the difference. So I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to fork out a lot of money for a new receiver if you just bought one.

Cool, thanks. I'm going to just let my current reciever live out a normal life cycle then. Maybe in a few years, I'll look in to a new purchase.
 

alterego

Junior Member
How come Universal is the only studio who's HD-DVD exclusive? Is it because Blu-Ray doesn't have something they want or do they have some particular vested interest in HD-DVD?
 
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